Hell in Wikipedia

[WhiteWings]

The English names of the festivals make a little more sense to me.
I'm sorta convinced we have to string those days together to get 'the story of salvation'

Day of forgiving of sins - Birth - Monday
God lives with us - Start of ministry - Monday
Death - Passover -> blood on doorposts avoids death - Wednesday
First-fruits -> Harvest starts -> Monday
Fall harvest -> Feast of Ingathering   

A now and then a quick nap. And a new spamming session starts.

PS:
Note that Jesus ministry lasted 3.5 years.
A number also found in Revelation.
Revelation also states that the days should be short to save the flesh. Death of Jesus was halfway the week.

[WhiteWings]

Sukkot (the Feast of Tabernacles ) is not a "Jewish festival", but rather a "Hebrew" festival, for it was given to all the Israelite tribes, not just Judah.

 

What if I say?

First-fruits = believers = Tribe of Judah -> only a handfull of people attended to this feast -> those ruling with Christ
Fall-fruits (Tabernacle) = former unbelievers = rest of the tribes/world -> worldwide party

 

[Cardinal]

  One of the things you might like to consider with the number 8.....they rubbed the male children with salt (salt burns like fire) on the 8th day and then they were given their name/nature. And so 8 is the number of "new beginnings" or eternal. It's also like the structure for DNA.

If you cross your arms and take someone's hands, it forms a "figure 8". God told one of the patriarchs to do this in giving a blessing. It's also tied in with the "fretwork" on the tops of the pillars and the "crown" type details on the mercy seat. So no wonder the scriptures, to he that overcometh to be made a pillar and to be given a crown.

Every little detail in there is like a hidden-in-plain-sight "code", a repeating of His will and messages to His sons, over and over again. Blessings....

[reFORMer]

Some information on a foremost source of Jewish Mysticism:

The Zohar (Hebrew: זֹהַר,‎  lit. Splendor or, Radiance) is widely considered the most important work of Kabbalah, or Jewish mysticism. It is a mystical commentary on the Torah (the five books of Moses), written in medieval Aramaic...The Zohar is not one book, but a group of books; these books include scriptural interpretations as well as material on theosophic theology, mythical cosmogony, and mystical psychology.

Published in the mid-13th Century (1270 AD?) by Moses de Leon who's wife claimed he wrote it.  While said to have been passed down orally from such persons as Abraham, Moses, and Elijah, it nevertheless shows the influence of rediscovered Greek writings in the middle Medieval period by borrowings from Greek mystical philosophy.  While a child of its time, it sould be understood many much more ancient commentaries and mystical writings are drawn on.

In "Zohar," an Encyclopaedia Judaica article written by the late Professor Gershom Scholem (Hebrew University of Jerusalem) his studies concluded that the author of the Zohar "develops tendencies which appeared first in the writings of the circle of the Gnostics in Castile in the middle of the 13th century."

online version:  https://www.kabbalah.com/k/index.php/p=zohar/zohar

Michael Berg (born June 29, 1973) is an ordained Rabbi, Kabbalah scholar, and noted spiritual leader. He edited the first unabridged English translation of The Zohar (23 vols.).

Sperling, Harry and Maurice Simon, eds. The Zohar (5 vols.). London: Soncino Press, . (The only complete English translation)

[WhiteWings]

My thought is that the wicked get out of LoF at Tabernacles. They get harvested.

That's a total of 186 days - 6 months
It makes extra sense when you consider (almost) all things of any significance happend on a holiday.
Birth, start of ministry, death and resurrection of Jesus was on a holyday.
Considering that getting everyone into heaven was the big aim of God why not on a holyday....?

I figured out Jesus was born on: Yom Kippur = Day of atonement
Martin figured out Jesus was born on: Feast of Tabernacles

So I started to look for a little extra proof.
Yom Kippur is 8 days after the Jewish new year.
8 days after the start of the 8 day festival Tabernacles is Simchat.
My own little theory tells me each feast only happens once in the big masterplan. So it can't be Tabernacles. 100% guesswork. I fully admit that.

Anyway both versions are only a few days apart. About nine month before birth is getting pregnant. Counting back and we get..... suprise....another feast.  Hanukkah - Festival of Lights. (8 days later Simchat)
Again a nice match! (btw such things draw me closer to believing)
A bit problematic is that the Jews are real party animals and that month is almost a string of festivals.
Jesus is many things including light of the world. Hanukkah is a 7 day festival. Each day a extra candle is lit. Jesus is born on the day of the first candle. (makes me think of the candles in Revelation)
So lets fix this date as a starting point for the 9 months.
Then we immediately bump into a little problem. How long does the perfect pregnancy exactly last? I think 40 weeks. 280 days. I guess the 28 rings a bell for women and moon watchers :-)
Lets see what fits.
I use Excel to calculate dates. But it doesn't accept BC years. So calculations can be off 1 day due to a leap year.
Pregnant December 6th 6BC -> Festival of lights
+280 days
September 12th 5BC -> 1 day after Yom Kippur or 5 days before Tabernacle.

So Yom Kippur seems the closest match.
BTW: 70 weeks of Daniel and start of His ministry also are on Yom Kippur.

[Cardinal]

  I love that you're digging into the festivals, WW. As a new believer, the Lord led me to look up the names of people, places and things, to cement my faith. I saw just from that, that there was no way man had tampered that much with the book (one of my fears/oppositions to it). As IF......some people had the forethought to name their kids about significant things they would grow up to do/become.  It just wasn't HUMANLY possible. I also saw from that, that He was in control, but that's another story.

Then He led me to study the feasts, finally the tabernacle. The amazing thing is; ALL these things I've named are interrelated. The feasts you are studying, are actually  patterned in the Tabernacle as well, and the principles of them are in the names of people, places and things.

Your comment about 280 days. That's 28 (moons) times 10. Ten is the number of completion. And I could break down 28 as two 10's and an 8. It's also four 7's; 4 (number of the world/earth) times 7 (number of His rest/peace).

The Lord gave me a dream/vision several years ago. It wasn't about me, but about the sons of God being perfected in the earth. I saw myself walking on a red earth path up a hill. I looked up and saw the moon thru the bare trees in the darkness of the night. It was almost full.

Just then the Lord spoke to me about the law being synonymous with the moon, and that when the fullness of the moon came, it was as the law being fulfilled in us spiritually, the same way it was fulfilled in Jesus, who became a son by the things that He suffered. It would be the same as being filled with His love (full moon).

Then the scene changed and I was not walking on a red earth path, but on a red carpet aisle in a church somewhere. At the front of it, in front of the pulpit, was a woman in a wheelchair. I walked up to her in the authority of the Spirit of God that the sons of God will walk in, did not touch her, but spoke loudly in the authority, "BE HEALED!"
Immediately, she jumped up and started screaming, crying, and praising God.

We are on the threshold of the greatest harvest the world has ever seen. There won't be one son of God walking the earth, but a many-membered body of HIM encased in flesh, perfected in His love, and empowered from on high, ie. from the Most High God. Saviors are about to arise on Mt. Zion (the highest peak), having walked in the red earth of man for a season, being perfected, that they might walk in the fullness of the Spirit without measure, like their elder brother did, the forerunner of them THAT GO BEYOND THE VEIL. Come Lord Jesus, come. Blessings...

PS to Reformer; interesting about the Zohar. I've never read it, but I've heard about it. I think it's interesting that when the oldest and most revered Kabbalah teacher died a couple of years ago in Israel, he left behind notes that said his studies had found that Yeshua was the Messiah. It caused quite a stir in the Jewish community. Just goes to show you He is bringing them in through all the gates. Blessings....

[WhiteWings]

Therefore, any apparent confusion I've detected in their meanings has had to include His foreknowledge and perhaps outright prophecy of how the last couple thousand years and the next couple thousand years are playing out.  But right now, that's much too deep for me, so I'm taking it a step at a time and jumping that swimming pool plank when I come to it in my studies and meditation time as it naturally unfolds.

Often study doesn't seem to work. Then the next day when doing something totally unrelated something pops into your mind. A key that unlocks part of the mystery.

Right now I'm digging. I find lots of useless junk. Lots of repeating what I already know. But this afternoon I found something interesting. Possibly useful in this matter. The Mazzaroth. The zodiac found in the Temple floor.
Some are obvious but most I never knew the Biblical meaning of.
Virgo: Virgin birth (Virga means branch)
Libra: Jesus payed the price
Scorpio: Jesus crushed his head (reference to Edens snake?)
Sagittarius: Jesus is God in human form (half horse half human starsign)
Capricorn: Jesus was cut off (I don't understand that one.
Aquaris: Jesus the living water
Pisces: Curch
Aries: Jesus the Lamb
Taurus: Jesus the leader
Gemeni/Twins: Jesus is Servant and King
Cancer: Jesus is our hiding place. -> Cancer means to encirle -> Revelation...camp of Saints encircled...?
Leo: Jesus is King of kings.

Now the part I'm looking at.
Every date and so every feast falls under a certain starsign.
Aries, Pices, Auqarius. And the other half of the year Leo and Virgo.
6 month. Between the groups.
Now I'm just starring at the zodiac to find some hints for the topic of this thread - Hell

[WhiteWings]

A quote from Ray Smith. Very obvious really. You just has to come to mind. (didn't for me)
If there are first-fruits there are at least also 2nd fruits.

So my thought build on the thought of Ray:
ETs seem to agree first-fruits are the believers that go to heaven. The people the people that are 'ready' when Jesus returns. The people that are raptured. etc

But where do the 2nd fruits come from? All besides the saints are in hell forever.
The only place where Jesus can harvest is in hell/LoF

[Cardinal]

  I think it was J. Preston Eby who wrote a series decades ago, on the truth hidden in the TRUE Zodiac, the constellations, called "The Heaven's Declare". He has a site on Sigler.org's list of Kingdom ministers; it might be posted on there, I don't know. Anyway, all the "signs" in the heavens point to Christ. Capricorn, I think it's a goat, isn't it? That would be Him as the scapegoat. Blessings...

[Cardinal]

A quote from Ray Smith. Very obvious really. You just has to come to mind. (didn't for me)
If there are first-fruits there are at least also 2nd fruits.

So my thought build on the thought of Ray:
ETs seem to agree first-fruits are the believers that go to heaven. The people the people that are 'ready' when Jesus returns. The people that are raptured. etc

But where do the 2nd fruits come from? All besides the saints are in hell forever.
The only place where Jesus can harvest is in hell/LoF

  Firstfruits is in itself a harvest term. He was the firstfruits of the resurrection. He was the forerunner (means first) of those that go beyond the veil. That means if one went in as a forerunner, others must follow.

He had the priests making the sign of the cross for thousands of years before Christ, and they didn't even know it. The wave offering of the priests was a firstfruits offering of grain. They waved in back and forth, raising it up over their heads. This was the horizontal motion of making a cross. There was was also a heave offering, a shoulder of the sacrificed beast raised straight up. This was the upright vertical motion of making a cross symbol.

It's all interrelated. The problem with the ETer's views on being "raised" is that they don't understand that in Noah's day only the wicked were removed from the earth. The righteous were RAISED up above the judgment to the flesh, in the ark. He is our ark of the covenant, and we run into Him as our covering, and are raised up above the death and destruction.

Noah was told to build an ark when he was 600, ie. the end of all flesh came before Him then. It's now 6000 years, and the end of all flesh is coming before Him again, only this time He's not destroying sinful flesh with water, but with the fire of the Holy Ghost, the fire that fell on the day of Pentecost. Blessings....

[WhiteWings]

I love that you're digging into the festivals, WW. As a new believer, the Lord led me to look up the names of people, places and things, to cement my faith.

If you still have that list I really would like to see it!

I saw just from that, that there was no way man had tampered that much with the book (one of my fears/oppositions to it).

Everyone can write a book. Maybe even like the Bible. But all kinda things make the story so complex that such things prove me it can't be of human origin....

Then He led me to study the feasts, finally the tabernacle. The amazing thing is; ALL these things I've named are interrelated. The feasts you are studying, are actually  patterned in the Tabernacle as well, and the principles of them are in the names of people, places and things.

I'm very sure they are interrelated. But it's so complex. I think it would help a great deal if I could read Hebrew.
Now I have to look up every word for an hidden meaning.

Just found this one minutes ago. The first 5 books by Moses are called Torah. In paleo-Hebrew (example of that is my avatar) the word Torah is only 4 symbols.
The whole alphabet has a meaning attached to each letter.
Now look at the meaning of the 4 letters that spell Torah
Cross, Nail, The Highest/A man, to reveal
Ain't that beautiful?

The Lord gave me a dream/vision several years ago. It wasn't about me, but about the sons of God being perfected in the earth. I saw myself walking on a red earth path up a hill. I looked up and saw the moon thru the bare trees in the darkness of the night. It was almost full.

[WhiteWings]

PS to Reformer; interesting about the Zohar. I've never read it, but I've heard about it. I think it's interesting that when the oldest and most revered Kabbalah teacher died a couple of years ago in Israel, he left behind notes that said his studies had found that Yeshua was the Messiah. It caused quite a stir in the Jewish community. Just goes to show you He is bringing them in through all the gates. Blessings....

I downloaded the book too. Didn't have time to read it.
About the Jews believing in Christ. It struck me many times what they write about Him.
Sites full of Hebrew symbols, but written in English, that discus teh meaning of the feasts, customs etc etc
They quite often mention Jesus with the highest respect. Often calling Him saviour.
That always puzzeled me.
There almost seems to be some sort of hybrid Jewish Christian religion....

[WhiteWings]

I think it was J. Preston Eby who wrote a series decades ago, on the truth hidden in the TRUE Zodiac, the constellations, called "The Heaven's Declare". He has a site on Sigler.org's list of Kingdom ministers; it might be posted on there, I don't know.

Think I did that? Or I fothe site after someone mentioned it. Anyway I downloaded and printed the book. To longwinded. Couldn't keep my attention. Perhaps now, with another mindset....

Anyway, all the "signs" in the heavens point to Christ. Capricorn, I think it's a goat, isn't it? That would be Him as the scapegoat. Blessings...

A ram laying down. Ram=male sheep.

[Cardinal]

.
About the Jews believing in Christ. It struck me many times what they write about Him.
Sites full of Hebrew symbols, but written in English, that discuss the meaning of the feasts, customs etc etc
They quite often mention Jesus with the highest respect. Often calling Him saviour.
That always puzzled me.
There almost seems to be some sort of hybrid Jewish Christian religion....

  Yep, that's a good description. They're Messianic Jews, ie. Jews that believe Yeshua was the awaited Messiah, and they read the NT and count it as inspired scripture. I didn't know why when He started it, but He had me studying the Word in essence from more of a Messianic mindset, probably 5-7 years before I even knew there was such a thing as Messianics.

I was ostracized back then from nearly every church I tried to attend for my insistence that the OT feasts and tabernacle should be studied, and my insistence that the rapture doctrine was a lie. These two things made me stick out like a sore heretic thumb    , and I was shown the left foot of fellowship or "marked" in some cases before I ever entered the door, as a heretic, false prophet, uncovered woman, or worse, ect. You name it, I've been called it. 

I pointed out to them (when I got the chance), that the first person to see the RISEN Christ, was a WOMAN from whom had been cast SEVEN devils. ie. soul/woman cleansed from the fullness (7 means fullness regardless of what it is) of the darkness of the flesh. Somehow that didn't have quite the effect on them that I would have liked.  Whatever, God is to be praised.  Blessings.....

[jabcat]

Card and WW, I believe this from Thomas Kissinger goes along well with the great points you two are making and with your discussion of the feasts, etc., their importance to us today as NT believers.

This is from someone I really respect.  I believe he has a good understanding of several important things...rightly dividing the Word by taking scripture in context, not pulling out OT passages relating to the Old Covenant and Israel and trying to make them literally universally apply to NC believers today, even when it's obvious who is being spoken to in the passage, i.e., "And to the house of Jacob" .... and an understanding of God's future workings with the nation of Israel, recognizing their place (Romans 11:18,19).  What he does see and understand, and use appropriately, are the types and shadows of the better things to come, that are brought about through Jesus to us of the nations that are grafted in and given the ministry of conciliation..."until the time of the Gentiles has come in, so all Israel shall be saved".

He says "The three feasts mentioned here represent the three times that WE must appear before the Lord. Remember...THESE ARE APPOINTED TIMES! We must appear before the Lord in justification (the salvation of our spirit), sanctification (the salvation of our soul), and glorification (the salvation of our body). These feasts are also known as: PASSOVER, PENTECOST, AND TABERNACLES. Knowing this will help us to rightly divide God's Word. THIS IS WHY PAUL STATED IN CERTAIN PLACES THAT WE WERE ALREADY RAISED WITH CHRIST IN NEWNESS OF LIFE (JUSTIFICATION), BUT IN OTHER PLACES HE SAID HE WAS WAITING FOR THE RESURRECTION (ANASTASIS) - THE REDEMPTION OF HIS BODY! We must look at each passage and rightly divide it according to whether Paul was speaking of justification, sanctification, or glorification. The error that many make is that they try to make every Scripture they read pertain to the now. When we do this we have left the proper method of interpreting the Scriptures, and we have entered the arena of forcing the Scriptures to line up with our own ideas. Understanding appointed times will make us free to know the truth!"

God's blessing, you two are doing some interesting study here  .

[WhiteWings]

Jabcat,

Can you point me to a site or book with work of Thomas Kissinger?
Kissinger...watergate...living water.... 
I'm not trying or promoting a rapture discussion. That said here is how the ancient Jewish wedding customs where.

When a couple wanted to marry the man went to the house of the girls father.
=> Jesus came to earth (house) of the bride (believers) father (God?)

He gave a wedding gift to the father of the girl. (he paid)
=> Jesus paid for our sins.

When the father accepted the gift the clock started ticking.
=> God accepted the payment of Jesus.

The groom went to his fathers home and started preparing a bridal chamber.
=> Jesus went home to and started preparing rooms in the mansion with many rooms.

When the father of the man was satisfied with the bridal room he gave his permission. Usually that took 1-2 years.
=> Jesus has many brides so it takes Him 2000 years :-)

The man gathers his friends and goes to the womans home. At the most unespected (nightly hour. (element of suprise)
=> Jesus and his angels are coming to earth.

When they are near the home of the woman the man blows a horn.
=> Revelations trumpets?

The man stops now and his friends going to 'steal'  the bride and bring her to the man.
=> Comes as a thief in the night at an unespected hour.
=> Rapture.... sorry I had to mention it...

The couple was locked up in the bridal room for 7 days. During this time the father made announcements and a wedding celebration
=> 7 years of tribulation.
=> Hell?

Bride and groom come out of the chamber and the wedding supper starts.
=> Jesus and the believers are bride and groom.
=> But who are the guests?
=> The people that came out of LoF.......?

 

[jabcat]

http://www.hearingthetruthofgod.com/  I ordered one of his books off his site...very good UR material...also, if you sign up, he will send a little newsletter to you a couple times a month...that's where the above info I posted came from...

[WhiteWings]

He has 4 books.
What book you quoted from?

[jabcat]

it was from one of the little newsletters he sends out to subscribers...on his site, there are dates listed along the left hand side.  I'm thinking these may be (at least part of) what he sends out in email, so they can be read on his site?  Not sure, but worth a check...the one I quoted from was in the past couple of weeks, titled "Appointed Times"

[WhiteWings]

The Glory Of God And The Honor Of Kings
The printed copy of this website - only $19.95!

Must be that one then.
Noble Berean 1 and 2 can be freely downloaded as a .pdf

[jabcat]

I think it was "Glory of God..Honor" that I ordered...my mother-in-law has it right now, so not positive.

[WhiteWings]

There are 70 49 year Jubelees.

Jubelee #1 starts: 1367BC When isreal entered Caan
Jubelee #30: Jesus died exactly at half of this Jubelee.
Jubelee #70 starts: 2015

Daniel 9:24  Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
That's just one way looking at it.
Can't remember the exact details but are there also 50 year jubelees?
Then of course 1 day is as a 1000 years would set the end date at 2027 or 2030

Enough to choose from

[Cardinal]

He says "The three feasts mentioned here represent the three times that WE must appear before the Lord. Remember...THESE ARE APPOINTED TIMES! We must appear before the Lord in justification (the salvation of our spirit), sanctification (the salvation of our soul), and glorification (the salvation of our body). These feasts are also known as: PASSOVER, PENTECOST, AND TABERNACLES. Knowing this will help us to rightly divide God's Word. THIS IS WHY PAUL STATED IN CERTAIN PLACES THAT WE WERE ALREADY RAISED WITH CHRIST IN NEWNESS OF LIFE (JUSTIFICATION), BUT IN OTHER PLACES HE SAID HE WAS WAITING FOR THE RESURRECTION (ANASTASIS) - THE REDEMPTION OF HIS BODY! We must look at each passage and rightly divide it according to whether Paul was speaking of justification, sanctification, or glorification. The error that many make is that they try to make every Scripture they read pertain to the now. When we do this we have left the proper method of interpreting the Scriptures, and we have entered the arena of forcing the Scriptures to line up with our own ideas. Understanding appointed times will make us free to know the truth!"

  AMEN, Jabcat. If you look at my incomplete list of 3's under the Tabernacle sticky thread, all of those represent scriptures, whose understanding is gleaned and aided by understanding this principle, because the 3 feasts correlate to the 3 compartments of the Tabernacle. The Lord opened my eyes to this in the first year of my walk.

There are many more in there that fit the 3 pattern, some are discussing only 2 of the 3 pattern compartments, and some are discussing only 1 of the compartments. Knowing the characteristics of the compartments and what they represent, make if possible to virtually place everything within those compartments, INCLUDING the natural creation witness.

It's also a 'clock" or time line, and it can be used (if He opens your eyes to it) to understand what is happening with those in the outer court realm (this includes the "unsaved" ones), as a mirror image (ie. reversed, soul ruling over spirit) of what He is doing in the heart of the spiritual priesthood (inner court realm). The pattern He created is so intricate, there is no way anyone but God could have created it, and because that pattern is still functioning perfectly, like a clock keeping time, I personally see no way any rational person reviewing the facts could not come to the same conclusion we have; GOD IS ALIVE AND HE HAS A SON NAMED JESUS CHRIST. Blessings....

[Cardinal]

Jabcat,

Can you point me to a site or book with work of Thomas Kissinger?
Kissinger...watergate...living water.... 
I'm not trying or promoting a rapture discussion. That said here is how the ancient Jewish wedding customs where.

When a couple wanted to marry the man went to the house of the girls father.
=> Jesus came to earth (house) of the bride (believers) father (God?)

He gave a wedding gift to the father of the girl. (he paid)
=> Jesus paid for our sins.

When the father accepted the gift the clock started ticking.
=> God accepted the payment of Jesus.

The groom went to his fathers home and started preparing a bridal chamber.
=> Jesus went home to and started preparing rooms in the mansion with many rooms.

When the father of the man was satisfied with the bridal room he gave his permission. Usually that took 1-2 years.
=> Jesus has many brides so it takes Him 2000 years :-)

The man gathers his friends and goes to the womans home. At the most unespected (nightly hour. (element of suprise)
=> Jesus and his angels are coming to earth.

When they are near the home of the woman the man blows a horn.
=> Revelations trumpets?

The man stops now and his friends going to 'steal'  the bride and bring her to the man.
=> Comes as a thief in the night at an unespected hour.
=> Rapture.... sorry I had to mention it...

The couple was locked up in the bridal room for 7 days. During this time the father made announcements and a wedding celebration
=> 7 years of tribulation.
=> Hell?

Bride and groom come out of the chamber and the wedding supper starts.
=> Jesus and the believers are bride and groom.
=> But who are the guests?
=> The people that came out of LoF.......?

 

  I love the wedding parallels, too. He gave me something beautiful once as a vision in prayer, about this. I saw what I was told was linen, like in a strip and it swirled around the right and left forearms of a couple, joining them together. They wore this same white linen, ie. linen speaks of the righteousness of the saints, which is HIS Spirit.

Then the linen from their arms went up and began to swirl over their heads. It formed a tree shape, and I heard a Hebrew word, sounds like "huptah", can't remember the spelling; I looked it up.

Anyway, that word was a wedding canopy. A canopy of a tree is as a covering. His Spirit/righteousness is our covering. The tree of life is of it's very design and nature, a WEDDING CANOPY, intended to join soul/woman and spirit/man as one back into Him.
Blessings....

[jabcat]

The pattern He created is so intricate, there is no way anyone but God could have created it, and because that pattern is still functioning perfectly, like a clock keeping time, I personally see no way any rational person reviewing the facts could not come to the same conclusion we have; GOD IS ALIVE AND HE HAS A SON NAMED JESUS CHRIST. Blessings....

Amen, so be it!  Good for my faith today, thanks Card.