Hell in Wikipedia

[martincisneros]

Sorry Martin but that verse even makes the other verse stronger. If I combine 6:5 and 6:6 I get:
6:5 Those praying in public are only there to look good. 6:6 If you want to do things right follow this advise.

Are people that answer their cell phone in public only looking to appear to others to have a cell phone, only looking to appear to others to be able to answer it correctly, and only looking to appear to others to be conducting life and relationships on their cell phone in public?  Not everyone who starts praying is calculating that others would see/hear them, any more than the one answering their cell phone in public being the least bit concerned/conscious many times of who may see them answer it.  For some people, if that cell phone goes off and particularly from certain numbers, then that may indicate that their whole day just got rescheduled.  But there wasn't any care being taken to appear to others to have a life or whatever.  On the other hand, you've sometimes got to wonder about teenagers and younger having their cell phones in public: "Look at me, I've got a T-mobile account!!" 

The whole teaching from chapter 5 through chapter 7 of Matthew is a call to a reordering of priorities in one's life and to make sure that they're building their lives on the Word of God and avoiding going to Church just because it looks good with potential business contacts, because it'll give someone greater influence in the community, and because they'll be well thought of for having gone and given the best seats at restaurants, seminars, townhall/city council meetings, etc.

Mmm, am I getting it right if I resume all the above as:
"It doesn't matter where you pray IF the only reason you pray is to get closer to God and not to look cool to others"

Yup!  Getting closer to God, having your life rooted in Him that when something comes up in terms of disaster, need, or whatever that you're honestly looking to Him for grace to help in time of need -- instead of having an attitude of making sure that everyone hears you pray the appropriate prayer so that the Church will continue to pay your salary as their pastor, worship leader, or whatever.  I can be in a mall with 15,000 people in it and if I suddenly need God or God suddenly needs me for some reason, I'm just a flipping of an inner switch away from no longer being aware of anyone else in the room/hall/whatever.  But that grew out of many times of running off to get into that hiding place and developing my prayer life to where I could hear Him. 

Like Jesus, many times in my past, I'd have that nudge and I'd vanish, get up excessively early and wander off, etc.  There is that place of regular get aways with God to really develop your relationship that Jesus is honestly calling absolutely everyone to for a season.  I'm not dismissing the importance of making those extended times with the same detailed care of your schedule that you'd make all of the preparations for a hot date.  It'll really begin there.  Those are precious times between someone and God when you really learn to pull aside if you felt Him even look at you in an extra special way.  You just run off and spend time with Him asking "what can I do or say for You?  Was there something You needed to talk with me about?  Is there something that I can do for You that you really need someone you can trust?  Lord, am I being judgmental, or is that You saying for me to dismiss all this joker is saying?" et. al.

And it'll unquestionably develop from there, first with that thought that you weren't quite sure if that was you or Him, but you couldn't think of a Scriptural principle it would violate and/or perhaps it would be the very thing to do here if you were doing what Jesus did.  And as with everything else in life, good or bad, what you yield your attention and most dominant thought to suddenly begins to get bigger in your life, more pronounced, etc.  The foundation on the rock is being laid well enough to where God can build absolutely anything on it, according to 2Timothy 2 and 2Corinthians 9.  Many of the things in the New Testament, whether from Jesus, St. Paul, Peter, etc., it's helpful to try to pin down whether they were sharing general principles applicable to anyone/everyone and especially believers, or whether there was a primary implication to clergy, whether the Pharisees or ministry officers in the Church.  It won't mean that they can't have universal relevance, but it'll explain tones, criticisms of hypocrisy, etc., as far as who was initially being addressed as an example to all of the rest of us and that perhaps in emphasizing such and such to others that the same accountability and foot in the rear end might not necessarily be as applicable for immediate implimentation.

Unlike a dispensationalist, I don't believe that "audience relevance" negates something applying universally, but it should be factored in to understanding emotions, choices in wording, and any relevant cultural aspects helpful in interpreting what was even being addressed.  The closet in Judaism was the section closed off by the prayer shawl around your head.  Didn't matter where you wore your prayer shawl, whether on a retreat, in your hotel room, at the synogogue, or on Main Street, as much as Jesus pointing people back to the Word regarding their prayer life, their attitudes and consciousness as they were praying, the Written Word as the source of their answered prayers and adjusted/transformed attitudes and consciousness, and whether or not they were drowning in what people think about them to the neglect of what He's thinking about them moment by moment.

[WhiteWings]

Sorry Martin but that verse even makes the other verse stronger. If I combine 6:5 and 6:6 I get:
6:5 Those praying in public are only there to look good. 6:6 If you want to do things right follow this advise.

Are people that answer their cell phone in public only looking to appear to others to have a cell phone, only looking to appear to others to be able to answer it correctly, and only looking to appear to others to be conducting life and relationships on their cell phone in public?

Little quick story. A young woman was talking on her cell phone at the bus stop. Walking back and forth and having real fun on her phone. She is a really wanted girl with a social life.
Then suddenly the cell phone she's talking to/with.......  rings...... 
No try to imagine a really red face

[martincisneros]

Little quick story. A young woman was talking on her cell phone at the bus stop. Walking back and forth and having real fun on her phone. She is a really wanted girl with a social life.
Then suddenly the cell phone she's talking to/with.......  rings...... 
No try to imagine a really red face

Happens in many more cities than you'd think.

[martincisneros]

Perhaps I should clarify my comment.  It's never happened to me.  Some preachers though, can be guilty of that one too.  Nervous about street preaching, so grab the cell phone and start acting like it's the most lively conversation over the Word of God. And suddenly their cell phone starts going   Best way to save face is to say, "huh!  I never heard my phone indicate our call had been dropped.  What was the last thing you heard me say??"  even if the person on the other end has zero idea what you're talking about and is saying "huh???" LOL!  I've thought about using the cell phone pulpit a few times, but couldn't bring myself to do it, figuring Murphy's Law that something would have to go wrong somehow if I started pretending or whatever in order to try to acheive some higher good.

[WhiteWings]

Perhaps I should clarify my comment.  It's never happened to me.

Well chances are that eventually your phone will ring. 
 

Some preachers though, can be guilty of that one too.  Nervous about street preaching, so grab the cell phone and start acting like it's the most lively conversation over the Word of God. And suddenly their cell phone starts going   Best way to save face is to say, "huh!  I never heard my phone indicate our call had been dropped.

Are your sermons as well prepared as your phone Acts?

What was the last thing you heard me say??"

What? O wrong number...

even if the person on the other end has zero idea what you're talking about and is saying "huh???" LOL!  I've thought about using the cell phone pulpit a few times, but couldn't bring myself to do it, figuring Murphy's Law that something would have to go wrong

Martin just switch off the phone next time.

somehow if I started pretending or whatever in order to try to acheive some higher good.

Can a higher good be reached by a lie? (fake phone calls)

[fullarmor2]

According to Jewish teachings, hell is not entirely physical; rather, it can be compared to a very intense feeling of shame. People are ashamed of their misdeeds and this constitutes suffering which makes up for the bad deeds.

This reminds me of a couple thoughts I had recently.  One was that if the Kingdom of God is within us,  and is love, joy, peace, etc......,    then isn't the Kingdom of  darkness within persons also?  And wouldn't it be hate, guilt, fear, misery, confusion, ignorance,  etc......?  
  And the other thought I had was regarding the rich man and Lazarus.  I feel like the Spirit was showing me that the rich man was simply in some "place of remembering"  ,  and that thats what his problem was.   His own darkness within.   So he could not possibly be happy when faced with the reality of God.   So he had to endure some things. So he could be brought to repentance and then to a knowledge of the truth which transforms and sets us free.     And where as on the contrary,   Lazarus  was able to be happy when faced with the truth of God.    Thats what Lazarus wanted!    So Lazarus was more ready, if you will, than the rich man was,  to be with God.
  I believe something beautiful happened eventually.   After the rich man repented and was transformed by God's truth,   not only did God forgive him,  but so did Lazarus.  And I'm sure they embraced,  and who knows, maybe the rich man served Lazarus at a couple of heavenly dinners to demonstrate his changed heart!      

[martincisneros]

Well chances are that eventually your phone will ring. 

Yeah, it's inevitable, 'cause inevitably that winds up becoming a habit. Who could resist once they've started on that road?

Are your sermons as well prepared as your phone Acts?

I'm just me: the good, the bad, the ugly, the so-so lyric and the works.

What? O wrong number...

I would sincerely hope I'd never been or never could be that crass.  I'd genuinely never stop apologizing if I ever did make that blunder.

Martin just switch off the phone next time.

It's fun to think that that's happened to me, but it really hasn't.  I'd be the first one to admit if it had.  Why not?  I tend to give TMI about everything else anyway! LOL!

Can a higher good be reached by a lie? (fake phone calls)

Never.  The Platonic precept of the medicinal lie has obviously been disproven centuries ago, by reason, experience, and the divine revelation of the Scriptures and the Holy Spirit.  It's not anything I've ever done.

[Cardinal]

  If I remember correctly, the few NDE's I read about, said they were shown their lives like a movie at impossibly high speed. I think the soul "recorded" every minute of it, as a "witness". Blessings....

[WhiteWings]

If it is a impossible high speed how can it be possible? 

Public or private display?
AFAIK there is nothing about video in the Bible. So what came first? The video idea or the NDE?....
So many are trying to make some $ that I'm very sceptical about NDEs.
Unless it was your own NDE. That would change things 

[Cardinal]

  Because it comes "in" as spirit, so it is nearly an instant imputation. No, I've never had one, but I had HIS "life history" imparted into me in such a fashion, when I was shown everything in that "explosion" of the cross moment I told you about, so I have an idea how it happens.

My grandmother and uncle had NDE's though. They told me about them before they passed. I know there are people out there trying to make money off the experience, but people will do that with just about anything, so that to me does not discount the experience, just the motive of the heart of some of the people sharing it.

The "woman/soul" is the witness to the Spirit (just as the creation is His witness or mirror image), so it makes sense in that principle understanding to me, that "she" is the "recorder", "she" remembers our sins against us, but the Spirit forgives them and remembers them no more, in His perfect timing.

Also makes sense in line with the fact that we are to remit (remember no more) the sins of others (while we live) thru the Spirit, as the Spirit does the works. My  Blessings....

[WhiteWings]

My grandmother and uncle had NDE's though. They told me about them before they passed. I know there are people out there trying to make money off the experience, but people will do that with just about anything, so that to me does not discount the experience

The problem is to know when en you read an NDE that ain't fake. The problem is with so much lies around how to know what's true. If you want to grow in faith and are looking for a teacher. You know a 1000 teachers but statisticly seen you know 900 are fake. So you have 10% change studying yourself closer to God. And 90% chance away from God.
Would you chose a teacher or not. Same with NDEs

The "woman/soul" is the witness to the Spirit (just as the creation is His witness or mirror image),

Some say the Hebrew text doesn't say 'image' but 'shadow'. That sounds much more negative.

so it makes sense in that principle understanding to me, that "she" is the "recorder", "she" remembers our sins against us, but the Spirit forgives them and remembers them no more, in His perfect timing.

So she is that nagging voice of shame inside?

[Cardinal]

  What few NDE's I ever read about were remarkably similar, no matter what the person's religious beliefs were in life. That to me, points to something. My grandmother and uncle's fell in line with those also. Both of them were Catholic at the time, but didn't attend anymore. My grandmother came to the Lord as a result of this, and lived almost another 6 six years.

The soul; she's the contentious "woman" in the wilderness (of sin) that proverbs talks about. Shadow is accurate. There are a lot of Hebrew words that tie in with that, where image is listed. You get a chance, look it up and run all the root words. Blessings....

[WhiteWings]

Cardinal,
Below the requested list.
I took "image" from Genesis 1:26. Looked up the Hebrew word for it and let my software search.
Then I took image in greek (eikon)and listed that below the Hebrew part
Genesis 1:26  And God said, Let us make man in our image, like us: and let him have rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over the cattle and over all the earth and over every living thing which goes flat on the earth.
 27 And God made man in his image, in the image of God he made him: male and female he made them.

Genesis 5:3 Adam had been living for a hundred and thirty years when he had a son like himself, after his image, and gave him the name of Seth:

Genesis 9:6 Whoever takes a man's life, by man will his life be taken; because God made man in his image.

Numbers 33:52 See that all the people of the land are forced out from before you, and put to destruction all their pictured stones, and all their metal images, and all their high places:

1 Samuel 6:5 So make images of the growths caused by your disease and of the mice which are damaging your land; and give glory to the God of Israel: it may be that the weight of his hand will be lifted from you and from your gods and from your land.
 11 And they put the ark of the Lord on the cart and the chest with the gold images.

2 Kings 11:18 Then all the people of the land went to the house of Baal and had it pulled down: its altars and images were all broken to bits, and Mattan, the priest of Baal, they put to death before the altars. And the priest put overseers over the Lord's house.

2 Chronicles 23:17 Then all the people went to the house of Baal and had it pulled down, and its altars and images broken up; and Mattan, the priest of Baal, they put to death before the altars.

Psalm 39:6 Truly, every man goes on his way like an image; he is troubled for no purpose: he makes a great store of wealth, and has no knowledge of who will get it.

Psalm 73:20 As a dream when one is awake, they are ended; they are like an image gone out of mind when sleep is over.

Ezekiel 7:20 As for their beautiful ornament, they had put it on high, and had made the images of their disgusting and hated things in it: for this cause I have made it an unclean thing to them.

Ezekiel 16:17 And you took the fair jewels, my silver and gold which I had given to you, and made for yourself male images, acting like a loose woman with them;

Ezekiel 23:14 And her loose behaviour became worse; for she saw men pictured on a wall, pictures of the Chaldaeans painted in bright red,

Amos 5:26 Truly, you will take up Saccuth your king and Kaiwan your images, the star of your god, which you made for yourselves.


Matthew 22:20 And he said to them, Whose is this image and name on it?

Mark 12:16 And they gave him one. And he said to them, Whose is this image and name on it? And they said to him, Caesar's.

Luke 20:24 Let me see a penny. Whose image and name are on it? And they said, Caesar's.

Romans 1:23 And by them the glory of the eternal God was changed and made into the image of man who is not eternal, and of birds and beasts and things which go on the earth.

Romans 8:29 Because those of whom he had knowledge before they came into existence, were marked out by him to be made like his Son, so that he might be the first among a band of brothers:

1 Corinthians 11:7 For it is not right for a man to have his head covered, because he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

1 Corinthians 15:49 And in the same way as we have taken on us the image of the man from the earth, so we will take on us the image of the one from heaven.

2 Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with unveiled face giving back as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord who is the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 4:4 Because the god of this world has made blind the minds of those who have not faith, so that the light of the good news of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, might not be shining on them.

Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the unseen God coming into existence before all living things;

Colossians 3:10 And have put on the new man, which has become new in knowledge after the image of his maker;

Hebrews 10:1 For the law, being only a poor copy of the future good things, and not the true image of those things, is never able to make the people who come to the altar every year with the same offerings completely clean.

Revelation 13:14 And those who are on the earth are turned from the true way by him through the signs which he was given power to do before the beast; giving orders to those who are on the earth to make an image to the beast, who was wounded by the sword, and came to life.

Revelation 13:15 And he had power to give breath to the image of the beast, so that words might come from the image of the beast, and that he might have all those who did not give worship to the image of the beast put to death.

Revelation 14:9 And a third angel came after them, saying with a loud voice, If any man gives worship to the beast and his image, and has his mark on his brow or on his hand,

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their pain goes up for ever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, who give worship to the beast and his image, and have on them the mark of his name.

Revelation 15:2 And I saw a sea which seemed like glass mixed with fire; and those who had overcome the beast and his image and the number of his name, were in their places by the sea of glass, with God's instruments of music in their hands.

Revelation 16:2 And the first went, and let what was in his vessel come down on the earth; and it became an evil poisoning wound on the men who had the mark of the beast, and who gave worship to his image.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet who did the signs before him, by which they were turned from the true way who had the mark of the beast, and who gave worship to his image: these two were put living into the sea of ever-burning fire.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw high seats, and they were seated on them, and the right of judging was given to them: and I saw the souls of those who were put to death for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and those who did not give worship to the beast, or to his image, and had not his mark on their brows or on their hands; and they were living and ruling with Christ a thousand years.

[WhiteWings]

Just had a thought when taking my yearly bath about LoF being now.
Some ET site claim that in the 3 days Jesus was dead He decended to hell to preach to the 'dead'.
I have no idea on what verses they based that but that's not important now. (I think)
If this is LoF Jesus indeed decended to hell/LoF. Not for 3 days but for 33 years.
Just a thought.

[Cardinal]

  It's in there that He preached to the captives, in one of the gospels, don't remember which one. But I missed your other point that you came to, after your "yearly bath" ( )....what do mean about the 33 years (of His life)? Blessings...

[WhiteWings]

I missed your other point that you came to, after your "yearly bath" (

Sounds my post was utterly vague again. My whole post was after the bath revelation 
Jesus lived about 33 years. The exact lifespan is not important now. Although two 3's have something in it...

If LoF is earth then Jesus decended from Heaven -> He was born or perhaps when the HS impregnated Maria (in case that sounds wrong it's not meant that way...)
Jesus left when he ascended back to heaven about 33 years later.

So Jesus was  hell for 3-days = 33-years.

He preached to the captives

Aren't those in LoF=earth captives?

[Cardinal]

  LOL, read my reply to your other post......we're on the same track here. Blessings...

[WhiteWings]

we're on the same track here.

Are we on collision course?

I wanna offer you a drink but I'm so poor I only can offer some funny tasting bath water. That's for free.
I also sell dehydrated water. Half price for TM members.

[martincisneros]

I also sell dehydrated water.

Dehydrated water? I've gotta remember that one! LOL!

[WhiteWings]

Sounds like you don't believe me.

Starting next month I also ship per e-mail!


http://www.buydehydratedwater.com/

[martincisneros]

Sounds like you don't believe me.

Starting next month I also ship per e-mail!


http://www.buydehydratedwater.com/

You're as nuts as I am.

Oh, why not?  Sign me up for next month.  Via email delivery of course.  Hopefully next month before the 31st.  I know how these internet deliveries can go sometimes!

[WhiteWings]

Just got a thought about the duration of LoF.
The Bible mentions 2 harvests.
Feast of first-fruits -> Spring harvest -> 17th Nisan -> that April 10th this year.
Feast of Tabernacles -> Fall harvest -> 15th Tishri -> that's on October 13th this year.

My little theory....
At a certain point in time people get judged.
The rightous get age-during life. The rightious are the saints; the first-fruits.
The wicked get age during punishment.
My thought is that the wicked get out of LoF at Tabernacles. They get harvested.

That's a total of 186 days - 6 months
It makes extra sense when you consider (almost) all things of any significance happend on a holiday.
Birth, start of ministry, death and resurrection of Jesus was on a holyday.
Considering that getting everyone into heaven was the big aim of God why not on a holyday....?
Not sure about this but following Tabernacles there is something called the 'big/last eigth day'.
Creation took 6+1 day.
Perhaps creation itself lasts only 7 millenia.
Then the 8th day Father takes over the Kingdom for The Son and we slip simply in a timeless everlasting 8th day.
Earned myself after this post :-)

[martincisneros]

Earned myself after this post :-)

Enjoy it then.   Lord Jesus' birthday is on Tishri 15, so, you may be on to something.  I've debated Tabernacles or Channukah when I've included the festivals in looking at it.  I've had to ignore the feasts for a while because my plate got way too full.  Plus, I've wanted to restudy them as Bible prophecy minus the dispensational premillenialist Israel worship that's accompanied many of the writings that I've seen on them.  They're called the feasts of the Lord in Scripture rather than the feasts of Israel. 

Therefore, any apparent confusion I've detected in their meanings has had to include His foreknowledge and perhaps outright prophecy of how the last couple thousand years and the next couple thousand years are playing out.  But right now, that's much too deep for me, so I'm taking it a step at a time and jumping that swimming pool plank when I come to it in my studies and meditation time as it naturally unfolds.  Perhaps something said around here will be the trigger to get me restudying at least one of the feasts.  And the attention you just drew to Jesus' birthday and then the date on the Jewish calendar of His circumcision could be suggestive on the cutting off of the old man from God's Creation and the emergence of God's Covenant man in history, homoberyth (i.e. to replace homosapien), could indicating the soon dawning of the New Earth.

[Cardinal]

Sounds like you don't believe me.

Starting next month I also ship per e-mail!


http://www.buydehydratedwater.com/

  rofl...I've heard of "heavy" water.......

[WhiteWings]

Earned myself after this post :-)

Enjoy it then.   Lord Jesus' birthday is on Tishri 15

Erm 15... gotta look into that again then. Don't remember the exact data that let me to conclude it was on the 10th.
Yom Kippur - Atonement day - forgiving our sins.
Only a few days diffrence. And any possible calculations I found not 100% exact.
So the question is what is more logical? A feast is used twice or a feast is only used once.
My conclusion (sofar) from my notes:
Prophesy of Jesus birth was made on Passover in Daniel.
Jesus birth on Day of atonement.
Ministry started on Sukkot.
Death on passover
Resurrection on first-fruits

Day of atonement 8 days after Jewish new year, Rosh Hashana -> again that number 8.

But as said earlier my calculations are nice but not perfect.
I calcated every date using at least 2 different methods. The dates didn't always exactly align. Then I looked up the date on the Hebrew calendar an choose the date nearest to a festival.
Always interested to finetune things.

So any proof Jesus was born on the 15th?

Does the number 186 or 6 has some special Biblical meaning?