Author Topic: if Jesus was not died ?  (Read 1399 times)

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Offline erwan

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if Jesus was not died ?
« on: November 07, 2013, 10:41:37 PM »
Every sinner would have been tormented forever  ?
question:the eternity of one man which would be suffering forever: infinity of sufferings
One man suffering eternally would be enough for the vengeance of God from every sinners
only one man suffering the eternity ?
i am confused
thank you for your help

Offline JulieTang84

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Re: if Jesus was not died ?
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2013, 11:02:27 PM »
A loving Father which we all have plans with love, in and through love.

If Jesus had not have died, it is reasonable to believe Father would have made other plans.

No loving father punishes their children for ever. Why would our loving GOD?  :HeartThrob:

Love Julie  :HeartThrob:
Don't Forget LOVE.

Tom

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Re: if Jesus was not died ?
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2013, 11:55:46 PM »
I believe only God exists in "eternity," always was, is, and always will be. I don't see the point in considering a hypothetical situation where Jesus doesn't die. Jesus Christ came to earth to die on the cross to reconcile all on earth and in the heavens to God and to save all mankind from death. I don't believe God would have given us the curse of death without providing a salvation from it. So, instead of wondering what would happen if Jesus didn't die, thank God he did because that means all your loved ones you lose in this life will be restored to you someday. Jesus Christ's death and resurrection guarantees that someday all will be alive to never die again. There's no way Jesus couldn't have died. It was all part of the ultimate plan for God to be all in all at the consummation of the eons.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: if Jesus was not died ?
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2013, 10:21:01 AM »
Every sinner would have been tormented forever  ?
question:the eternity of one man which would be suffering forever: infinity of sufferings
One man suffering eternally would be enough for the vengeance of God from every sinners
only one man suffering the eternity ?
i am confused
thank you for your help
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The wages are death. Not hell, heaven, purgatory or conciousness of any sort. Just endless death as an atheist would describe it.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Tom

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Re: if Jesus was not died ?
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2013, 03:04:39 PM »
This poor guy is already confused. Now you're going to have to explain "eternal" damnation.

The word "eternal" is a mistranslation of "aionion," the adjective of the Greek "aion," literally "eon," which is a period of time not infinite time. A more accurate translation is "eonian" rather than "eternal."

"For the ration of Sin is death, yet the gracious gift of God is life eonian, in Christ Jesus, our Lord." (Romans 6:23)

Scripture is concerned with the eons not eternity. We will all eventually have immortality, but only God has "eternal" life because he always was. Mankind had a beginning.

Merriam-Webster says "eternal" means "having no beginning and no end in time."

http://www.saviourofall.org/charts/ChartOfJudgments.html
« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 03:19:09 PM by Tom »

Offline Lazarus Short

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Re: if Jesus was not died ?
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2013, 05:23:19 PM »
God's Justice toward sinners was this:

He sent His Own Son to die a cruel death for us.  :declare:
Socrates taught Plato.  Plato taught Aristotle.  Aristotle tutored the son of Philip of Macedon.  This boy grew up to become Alexander the Great, largely by slaughtering a lot of people.  That's philosophy.

Jesus spoke the Truth.  He blessed the poor.  He healed the sick.  He even raised the dead.  He died on a cross for us, lived again, and came back long enough to tell us to love one another.  That's religion.

Offline rosered

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Re: if Jesus was not died ?
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2013, 05:25:05 PM »
Quote
Every sinner would have been tormented forever  ?
question:the eternity of one man which would be suffering forever: infinity of sufferings
One man suffering eternally would be enough for the vengeance of God from every sinners
only one man suffering the eternity ?
i am confused
thank you for your help

 
Hi erwan
 I believe there is alot of confusion over the word eternity 
God  was making a way for all mankind    by the Cross of Jesus Christ [ cursed is a man who hangs on a tree ]   Jesus tasted that death for every man 
 that tree is the tree of knowledge of good and evil
  when we eat of that tree    our soul /life   is required [death  in Adam ]
  Jesus  gave His soul /Life     so others could live on though Him  His life  on earth 

 This helped me to see the power of the cross of Jesus Christ
 
   there were two thieves  one  on  each side  and Jesus in the middle  of them
 
 one confessed he deserved death  for his sins and Jesus did not deserve to die   for Jesus  was innocent   , this mans faith saved him  and  was  told Today you will be with me in Paradise


  as for the other one  he told Jesus IF   you are the son of God take yourself down from  this tree and me too  ,      from that point there is no more mention of this sinner /man , the dead know nothing

 Jesus Cross   to me represents the NEW   AGE  /WORLD  WORK OF GOD  , though His Son that makes a way for all mankind 
  some of the  miracles Jesus done was showing him  raising the dead /Lazarus  example
    gathering souls / lives from death , That tree of knowledge of good and evil  ,  back to Him that tree of Life   restored   in newness of life  in Christ .
  there is no end to Gods kindgom   
 I hope this helps  somewhat
Jesus is the reward  !!

Tom

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« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 09:19:06 PM by Tom »

Offline JulieTang84

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Re: if Jesus was not died ?
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2013, 10:34:06 PM »
This poor guy is already confused. Now you're going to have to explain "eternal" damnation.


Which explains my very simplistic explanation. If it had not been Jesus, it would have been someone or something else. Yes, I know this was decided long before time began, just sayin' is all.


Love Julie  :HeartThrob:
Don't Forget LOVE.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: if Jesus was not died ?
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2013, 05:52:48 PM »
Scripture is concerned with the eons not eternity.
But his question was about what is NOT in the Bible.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Mediate

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Re: if Jesus was not died ?
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2014, 06:05:19 PM »
Jesus died of his own volition, all the while praying for those against him.

What better way to make a showing of the nonsensical ways of hatred than for a man to go unto death itself on a cross while praying for those who hated him simply because he was inherently good and his actions made mockeries of their half lives?

Jesus proved a point when he went up on that cross. He proved a point about how lawfulness doesn't do well to cover up a skewed moral compass. The Pharisees obeyed the law, but they were black inside. They killed a man who went above and beyond the law, and used their own laws to sanction it.

It is law giving way to spirit.

The only instruction left is love one another. Since Jesus proved the ways of human law to be unworthy of being considered 'righteous', because if they were righteous, the laws wouldn't have led to Jesus' death in the first place.

Jesus' death proves that the punitive mind-set is unworthy of the light. Forbearance, hope, forgiveness, patience, meekness, self-sacrifice and compassion. The only things that are truly beneficial.