Author Topic: do we take judgement serious enough  (Read 5862 times)

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Offline sven

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do we take judgement serious enough
« on: January 02, 2009, 03:17:00 PM »
i dont believe in any kind of hell, but don´t you think there might be very severe punishment:

Hebrews 10:26

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,  But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:  Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

martincisneros

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Re: do we take judgement serious enough
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2009, 01:34:31 AM »
The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Texas Son

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Re: do we take judgement serious enough
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2009, 04:47:51 AM »
The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

But should it be fearful for an adopted son of God to fall into His hands? Perfect love cast out all fear.

martincisneros

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Re: do we take judgement serious enough
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2009, 06:14:48 AM »
 :goodpost:

Chris

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Re: do we take judgement serious enough
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2009, 06:46:28 AM »
The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

But should it be fearful for an adopted son of God to fall into His hands? Perfect love cast out all fear.

It was to the disciples He spake the parable of being handed over to the tormentors if they were not forgiving of their brothers tresspasses :grin:

If one is merciful as the father is merciful what is there to fear?

He who fears is not yet perfected in love, if he's not walking mercifully I'd say theres alot to fear  :grin:


God nailed Saul with an evil Spirit, that looks very much like the anguish and tribulation which would come upon every soul of man that doeth evil, some folks need a healthy fear of the Lord, it is the beginning of wisdom (might not be the end all) but the beginning as I see it.




I'll second the  :goodpost:

I remember when you first did that study a few years ago (at least the first time I saw it) at the Jude forum (I think it bit the dust... last I checked, anyway). I miss those days!!  :winkgrin:

Chris

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Re: do we take judgement serious enough
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2009, 07:05:56 AM »
Sometimes I feel mad??? Do I feel mad to you??   :mshock: :grin:

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: do we take judgement serious enough
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2009, 07:39:14 AM »
Quote
do we take judgement serious enough

Depends,

I think if the majority of people viewed Jesus as the Savior of all mankind and sought reward rather than avoiding guilt things might be inherantly better without fear.

I think many people are still influenced by the religious avenue of a genie in the bottle God who expects his bottle to be shined and rubbed in order to make things better or avoid the hammer of Gods angry fist when failure occurs or if we fail to be good in the eyes of human beings.

What I do think, in my own perspective, is that many people are too serious about judgment because it is always in the realm of an angry God who is going to get us if we do not please him.





alihaymeg

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Re: do we take judgement serious enough
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2009, 07:44:48 AM »
Quote
But should it be fearful for an adopted son of God to fall into His hands? Perfect love cast out all fear.

It is walking in perfect love that causes one to have no fear. Reaping a harvest of negativity is what you should fear if that is what you sow. Reaping a harvest of hatred is what you should fear if that is what you have sown. But, if you are walking in the perfect love of God through the Holy Spirit, there is nothing to fear. All you will reap is a harvest of perfect love. All of that applies right here and now.

Texas Son

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Re: do we take judgement serious enough
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2009, 08:04:26 AM »
Quote
But should it be fearful for an adopted son of God to fall into His hands? Perfect love cast out all fear.

It is walking in perfect love that causes one to have no fear. Reaping a harvest of negativity is what you should fear if that is what you sow. Reaping a harvest of hatred is what you should fear if that is what you have sown. But, if you are walking in the perfect love of God through the Holy Spirit, there is nothing to fear. All you will reap is a harvest of perfect love. All of that applies right here and now.

The flesh will be destroyed in the end. Whether it is through our receiving the work Christ did on our behalf, or through the refining fire of God's all consuming love. It is the easy way or the hard way. We who are in Christ should not walk in fear of a wrathful God. "God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there who his {father} does not discipline."


martincisneros

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Re: do we take judgement serious enough
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2009, 09:03:26 AM »
I believe that this webpage is updated daily, but because I'm not faithful in checking it either everyday or even every month, I can't say that I know that for sure:
http://www.josephprince.org/resources/dailydevotional/dailydevo.asp
I'm more familiar with the daily television ministry than their online devotional, but I have the least hesitancy of saying something around a UR crowd about this ministry of any of the mainstream ministries out there.

Hebrews 10:17
17… "Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more."
 
  I don't know about you, but I would say that Hebrews 10:17 is good news. God sees all our sins — past, present and future — and says, "Your sins I remember no more!" The words "no more" are a strong double negative in the original Greek text. In other words, God is saying, "Your sins I will by no means ever remember!"

Has God lowered His standards? No, He is still perfectly holy. He did remember all our sins — 2,000 years ago at the cross. Every sin which we have committed or will commit has been punished to the full in the body of Jesus Christ at the cross. That is why today, God remembers our sins no more. We should, therefore, not be sin-conscious.

Each time we fall into sin, God wants us to remember the cross and say, "Lord Jesus, you were sentenced for this sin I committed. You bore the judgment, so God will not judge me for this sin. You were condemned for this sin, so God will not condemn me for it."

If you don't look to the cross, you will become sin-conscious and you will walk around with a certain expectation of judgment. And that expectation of judgment will give the devil a chance to get you thinking that God has something against you because of your sin.

You must come to the place where you know and believe that all your sins are forgiven, that there is no sin that will ever disqualify you from God's blessings, that there is no sin that will ever send you to hell, because you are forgiven and saved eternally.

Hebrews 10:12, 14 says, "But this Man [Jesus], after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God… For by one offering He has perfected forever…"

You and I are perfected forever because of Jesus' perfect work on the cross. We are perfected by God's full acceptance and perfect delight in His Son's work that has so glorified His holiness. Beloved, hear God say to you, "I will be merciful. Your sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more."

alihaymeg

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Re: do we take judgement serious enough
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2009, 12:18:27 PM »
Yep, God remembers them no more. But does that excuse us from the consequences of continuing in them?

When we tell our children not to be selfish because then their friends will not want to be around them anymore, are we saying that we are going to hold them accountable? No, we are explaining to them that there are consequences for their actions that are separate from us. As hard as it is to watch, sometimes our children do things that cause them harm even though we told them it would be better for them if they would not do them. God has given us the tools necessary to become holy as He is holy, but it still requires our cooperation. He can warn us of the danger, but He will not force us to refrain from our folly. The law of reaping and sowing still applies to all. The difference is that we have access to the heart of God through the Holy Spirit. He is able to help us to become perfected in love. Only then are we completely safe from harm. Gehenna fire is here and now. It is meant to purify, and it will if we allow it to. The fire is not the enemy. The fire was placed here for us in order that we may become as God is; knowing evil and overcoming it. Without the fire we cannot achieve this. That is why we are here.

martincisneros

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Re: do we take judgement serious enough
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2009, 08:00:23 PM »
Well, Paul said in Romans 6 that we should by no means continue in sin because we've died to it.  And if we're under grace, then sin has no dominion over us.  Nothing's excused.  If sin's having dominion over you, then you've not yet discovered God's grace.

Offline rosered

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Re: do we take judgement serious enough
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2009, 08:01:56 PM »
 

  wow I love this  thread  great posting  guys!!!
 I come in and   am Wowed!  
  we were talking  last night  Fire about what    really  counts  with God  , and its the love being perfected [ matured/complete]  within us , getting the body and soul in  sync  with the Spirit   , our new spirit  as the old one dies in sin , put to death  ..
  the rise up Life  in Christ seed /Word of God  that is incorruptible , cannot be  swayed or destroyed ruined  a new creature
  not  human anylonger  , but still   is within our flesh  
 I was thinking about  how the angels [ new  creature ? messengers ]    go up  /ascend  into the spiritual realm    and descend   go back down
  into the earthly  realm of thoughts and thinking ?  on the Son of Man /God
  this  would also be  of the reaping and sowing   heavenly   reward /judgments and   earthly reward and judgments
  I can see this in the spiritual and natural  realms  , both  old and new
  as being at the same time  this would cause  confusion , babylon   mixing   such as wines and breads   meats etc   that has to me what has caused  God  to be mocked ?    the train of thoughts and  in turn actions ?
 

Offline sven

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Re: do we take judgement serious enough
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2009, 08:12:58 PM »
i meant judgement about the unbelievers, im afraid about my friends, i dont want them to suffer severe punishment

Offline Cardinal

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Re: do we take judgement serious enough
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2009, 08:31:24 PM »
 :cloud9: The answer to that for me, is no. When Paul said to run the good race, it would have been nice if it had been pointed out in that scripture, that the law runs side by side with grace, until every jot and tittle be fulfilled (in us) spiritually.

The law (Moses/Torah) and the prophets (Elijah) combined with the Spirit that is love, grace, mercy and truth, produce the mature Son in us. Wherever two or more are gathered in my name/nature, there I am in the midst (Moses and Elijah on either side of Him on the mount) of you. This is the pattern and it cannot be broken.

This is not the same as being under the law in the sense that the Jews were, but is the reason why Jesus said He came not to destroy it but to fulfill it. The servant is not greater than the master, and we as overcomers are called to fulfill it as well.

The beginning of our fulfilling it, is with our spiritually fulfilling Passover. The rest of it is fulfilled spiritually as well, as we walk with Him in the fear (as reverence) of the Lord. If you reverence Him you are obedient to follow the Lamb wheresoever He goest, as a bondslave of His love. Blessings to all...

"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline rosered

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Re: do we take judgement serious enough
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2009, 08:45:31 PM »


  wow I love this  thread  great posting  guys!!!
 I come in and   am Wowed!  
  we were talking  last night  Fire about what    really  counts  with God  , and its the love being perfected [ matured/complete]  within us , getting the body and soul in  sync  with the Spirit   , our new spirit  as the old one dies in sin , put to death  ..
  the rise up Life  in Christ seed /Word of God  that is incorruptible , cannot be  swayed or destroyed ruined  a new creature
  not  human anylonger  , but still   is within our flesh  
 I was thinking about  how the angels [ new  creature ? messengers ]    go up  /ascend  into the spiritual realm    and descend   go back down
  into the earthly  realm of thoughts and thinking ?  on the Son of Man /God
  this  would also be  of the reaping and sowing   heavenly   reward /judgments and   earthly reward and judgments
  I can see this in the spiritual and natural  realms  , both  old and new
  as being at the same time  this would cause  confusion , babylon   mixing   such as wines and breads   meats etc   that has to me what has caused  God  to be mocked ?    the train of thoughts and  in turn actions ?
 

I love the way you put thing Rosie  :bigGrin: Not sure about your questions though sis, what do you mean?
 

 
  Hi Kimbo   these  were things I was considering sis and put them as questions  to consider    Paul said this , and I can hear what the Spirit is saying  about it   and I have really been thinking hard on it , since our last two  talks sis  ............  the food and Table  as we all sit down to Eat of the Lords Body  

  Now in this that I declare [unto you] I praise [you] not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse.


 1Cr 11:18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.


 1Cr 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
 
 
 1Cr 11:20 When ye come together therefore into one place, [this] is not to eat the Lord's supper.


 1Cr 11:21 For in eating every one taketh before [other] his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.  :mshock:

 1Cr 11:22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise [you] not.

 1Cr 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the [same] night in which he was betrayed took bread:

 1Cr 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake [it], and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

 1Cr 11:25 After the same manner also [he took] the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink [it], in remembrance of me.


 1Cr 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.


 1Cr 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink [this] cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.


 1Cr 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of [that] bread, and drink of [that] cup.


 1Cr 11:29 For he that eats and drinks unworthily, eats and drinks damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.


 1Cr 11:30 For this cause many [are] weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

 1Cr 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.


 1Cr 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.  

  this is what we all do here and at all foums    we are eating  and drinking  His Word /body  and drinking His blood [new wine ]  new covenant

   this Table has been prepared of the Lord we are to serve one another with love and  concern    for  those whom are not being fed  or not  being repectful of others  needs  , serving one another in Love  for God and Jesus Christ and the  family  of God children , young men  elders etc .
 
 when I look  within myself I have to ask ,  will  the knowledge of God complete   me or is it  showing and doing the love feasts  , or food fights ?preparing this food  warm  and  friendly  so others  can take of it with gladness of heart
  and be filled as well  , or am i pigging out and not letting others go first  as they hunger and thirst  after the rightousness of Christ Body and   blood / life  too  ,  this fellowship  is a scared thing   and should not be treated any other way   than what it is , Holy to God and  to our bodies  [ Body of Christ ]  coming together in  Love and good works  
   just thinking how important  this really is  and sharing what God has given and bless it so others can  have also with the increase of God
 
  love  ya all .. rose  :HeartThrob:
« Last Edit: January 03, 2009, 08:51:11 PM by rosered »

Offline Cardinal

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Re: do we take judgement serious enough
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2009, 08:53:35 PM »
 :cloud9: Amen rosered, that's why I strive not to share anything that He has not made life in me, because I don't want to cause my brother to stumble and be held accountable for every idle (means unemployed, as in not employed by the Spirit) word. Blessings to you....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline rosered

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Re: do we take judgement serious enough
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2009, 09:43:56 PM »
 
   God bless yaz ,
  I am thankful   that the Good Lord is dealing with us still 
 and   if we should /could  would  share  our bread   Life / that the Good Lord gave us ,  but more so how/matter of  heart  we do it   :thumbsup:
and more so  how  we receive it  :HeartThrob:

Offline peacemaker

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Re: do we take judgement serious enough
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2009, 11:43:32 PM »
A red rose :goodpost:

Some like their bread plain; dry. Others like it buttered; smooth.
And still, there are those who prefer to have a little jam; sugar coated.

It may be a matter of taste, or preference.

But, I surely love the "bread of life" - that which is given.

peacemaker

alihaymeg

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Re: do we take judgement serious enough
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2009, 12:14:50 AM »
Quote
I hear "do not be yoked with unbelievers, and yet at the same time does that mean do not be yoked with those yoked under Moses?   I mean the law is NOT of faith 

Kim,

     I think the key to this is to not be UNEQUALLY yoked with unbelievers. Even Jesus ate with tax collectors and sinners. He was not dependant on them for guidance and fellowship though. Unequally being yoked suggests being dependant on that person.
What do you think?

Offline Taffy

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Re: do we take judgement serious enough
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2009, 01:05:35 AM »
Isa 10:27 And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] his burden shall be taken away from off thy shoulder, and his yoke from off thy neck, and the yoke shall be destroyed because of the ""anointing ""

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his *shoulder:" and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

 :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Taffy

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Re: do we take judgement serious enough
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2009, 01:24:54 AM »
 
Mat 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

 :icon_flower:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

jadestorm

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Re: do we take judgement serious enough
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2009, 11:49:55 AM »
Just a couple of tid-bits for thoughts....  :Sparkletooth:

First, I think there is human reaction to the word 'judge' that causes many to cower in fear. However, Judging a matter, or being a Judge over a matter doesn't necessarily always mean a "bad" judgement. Good fruit is inspected and judged as.. well.. just that... inspected and found good. It isn't a process of fear.
I LOVE the book 'A Shepherd Looks At psalm 23' by Phillip keller.
Sheep must be inspected. Not to judge them as unfit, but to guard against infections, disease, insects. They also need to be sheared. not something they enjoy at the time, but once the heavy wool is off they frolic like new lambs.
Even the shepherd's Rod is used as proctection - not punishment.
The shepherd uses a Staff and Rod to rescue a sheep by using the crook to reach the lamb in trouble. It's used against predators that would eat the sheep.
As fruit, I know I have bruising soft spots. I'm sure God is judging my good and bad and making the crooked places straight as i go. As a sheep, I'm sure i've had "vermin" hiding in my fleece, i know i've wandered into dangerous places. But I also know that "His Rod and His Staff comfort me" as psalm 23 promises. He doesn't beat me with them. he doesn't abuse me with them.

I had a vision a number of years ago when I was studying psalm 23. i was going through some very tough things at the time and God showed me the ordeals were my valley of death so to speak at the time. Suddenly he was standing next to me as a Shepherd and I was a lamb. I saw where i needed to go, but i was terrified to cross the valley. even though the patch of land i was standing on was barren and i could see that on the other side of the valley was lush pasture.
He spoke so gently and caring to me. he used His Staff to gently nudge me, whispering encouragement the entire time. I came to a standstill however, half-way across. frozen with fear, i had gone too far to turn back but overwhelmed with moving forward.
I want you to share in the beautiful experience of seeing and feeling what happened next for me. The Good Shepherd knelt down and wrapped a scarlet ribbon around my head so that i couldn't see. (Horses need their eyes covered to be led out of a fire. The fire scares them so badly they won't move without something covering their eyes).
The entire time He continued to comfort me, but He would also scold me, but even His scoldings were like endearments. he would say things like, "My little silly Sherry.... silly little girl, no fear" and he would hug me. I knew he wasn't really scolding me. He was simply affirming Who he is and how silly anything else is in comparison. Anyhoo, He then took His staff and put me between His right leg and His Staff. He kept the Staff pressed to my side and He began to walk. Since I was wedged between Him and His staff I walked as He walked until we were on the other side.

The point is that we have many death valley experiences on this side of the veil that he uses to correct us, change us, move us, relocate us. He continues to Perfect the Good work which he has begun in us. i have no fear of the future, for a future with the Lover of our souls only ensures a Good Judge. As a parent, I get it. i have to judge matters all the time with my children. But i judge the matter before me, never the child. I'm not perfect. i make mistakes, but God as judge does not. He does Judge and He will Judge every matter before Him, but He will not Judge our sonship. Actually, I've come to the belief that the Judging will be for our benefit- not His own.
For example.. I have learned that when God asks me a question it's not because He doesn't Know the answer. He asks a question so that I will look at it and learn the answer. So I can have a lightbulb moment. An A-HA moment.
Likewise, when He Judges a matter I believe it's when He is saying, 'COME, let us reason together.' He is not a Father with a contorted face of Rage, spittle flying, belt in hand, saying 'This will hurt me more than it hurts you.' He is not an abusive father. He is not a distant, unapproachable Father. He is not an absent Father. He is not a cowardly Father. He is not a dead-beat dad. He is Abba, Papa, Daddy. He Is the Shepherd of Psalm 23.

Is there punishment once we leave these clay pot vessels? Don't know, don't care. Not trying to be flippant. Just stating my experience. God has Loved me unconditionally yet corrected me along the way. He isn't shy. LOL I just know that God doesn't change His mind about who I am to Him. So if I miss a light bulb moment on this side of the Veil, I don't think He's going to start using His staff to whack at me once I die. I can however, picture Him very easily calling my name, and saying 'Oh Sherry! Little girl, come walk with me. Let's talk about some things...'

jadestorm

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Re: do we take judgement serious enough
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2009, 12:00:48 PM »
ooooooppppsssss... i was so caught up with psalm 23 I forgot my other 2 cents. it's short, i promise!!!  :gangel:

Grace is never a permission to sin. However, it's His Kindness that leads us to repentance. He constantly corrects me. However, i've learned something near and dear to my heart from Spirit. Love will convict us on a matter, but also give us the means to conquer it. Love propels us to change. Condemnation however seperates us from Love and leaves us in a place of despair with no hope of escape.

      ~Sherry~

Offline Cardinal

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Re: do we take judgement serious enough
« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2009, 03:40:18 PM »
 :cloud9: Beautiful posts Sherry! Amen!  :thumbsup:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor