Bin Laden

[jabcat]

This showed up on my wife's Facebook page  (person 1 is her brother);

Person 1:  Oh man...this is wild. After Bin Laden was killed back in May, a poll was taken of Americans asking them where they thought he would turn up. 61% said they think he turned up in hell. So that begs the question....where else do the other 39% think he turned up?


Person 2:  I can't imagine he went anywhere else but hell.


Person 3:  Yeah, he's in hell.


Reactions?  (Including honest  ones?  lol)

[reFORMer]

Nobody can escape God.  He will correct all wrongs.  The darkness will give way so noontime bright.

When we don't understand things by categories God provides in his Word what else can we do?  We resort to what we've been told by other people who don't know either.  When the blind lead the blind they both fall into a pit.  The good news is it's because they have something to learn there.  Some of their new wisdom will come by the self-evident judgement displayed upon a false leader.  They'll also find out how to get out of that pit.

Notice how children don't know where everything in their room belongs?

When I was around 3 or 4 years old I asked my dad when he was shaving, "When I grow up will I get feathers too?"

[WhiteWings]

One man's terrorist is the other mans freedom-fighter

39% atheists. Part of the 61% likely made a political statement instead of a religious one.

[Molly]

Paris.

[jabcat]

Haha..is that the same thing?

[jabcat]

quote - "yeah, he's in hell"...

My reactions;

yes, you would think so, wouldn't you?

we might think that's just what he deserves - to be tortured, tormented, have his skin literally melted trillions of times off his bones - over, and over again for trillions of years

does God truly, completely give us what we deserve?  or does He have another plan that's beyond our human comprehension?  Do we fully understand His ways?  Does He react the way we do?

do you think bin laden had the same opportunity to be saved as you or I?  ("no one can come to the Father unless the Holy Spirit draws him")

do you know where the idea of hell truly came from?  (hint - check out Augustine (500's) Dante (1600's) then the King James translators - then passed down and accepted as "the truth" into Christian thought

hell's a made up word, made from several different words in the Greek and Hebrew, meaning different specific things

is God a god of endless torment, or is He a Redeemer?  i.e., does He "just" punish, or punish with a restorative purpose (Sodom and Gommorah will be restored to its original state [Ezekial 16:55])

where to start with this thought process as presented in the opening statement on fb?


NOW my brutally honest reactions...[oh man, things are so "messed up".  where to start?  so many people are deceived.  reminds me of how in Jesus' earthly ministry, so many (almost all) were unable to see Who He was.  further, that's the way it was planned - they were purposely veiled, so that during that age, they were not allowed to "know" Him.  Similarly, could it be that in this age, somehow it's God's will that most are blinded to His ways as far as how He deals with mankind in the ages to come and therefor "eternity"?]

We want to get back at people.  Are God's ways our ways?  Are there things we've been taught that causes us to miss some things?  Does a good shepherd lose his sheep and allow them to perish?


And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of all those he has given me, but that I should raise them up at the last day.  John 6:39 

Jn 3:35,36 says The Father has placed all things into His hands (what exactly does that mean, because the next verse says those believing are in good shape, while those not believing have the wrath/anger of God still on them.  True enough, but that doesn't speak of their "eternal/final" destiny either...also, "placing all things in His hands" could mean He has authority over it all vs. "everything is His SO nothing will be lost"...

[Molly]

I think people need to get over being deceived about the things of this world first, before they could have any hope of getting over being deceived about the things of the next world.

[Molly]

Jesus says to the Pharisee and Sadducees,  You people are so rotten, how are you going to escape the condemnation of the tribunal, the divine justice of geenna?

Justice does exist and will be served.

But, then he goes on to say to them:

 39For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.  [Mat 23]

To me, that means they will see him again, and under favorable circumstances, because they will be blessing him and blessing his messengers.

[jabcat]

Jesus says to the Pharisee and Sadducees,  You people are so rotten, how are you going to escape the condemnation of the tribunal, the divine justice of geenna?

Justice does exist and will be served.

But, then he goes on to say to them:

 39For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.  [Mat 23]

To me, that means they will see him again, and under favorable circumstances, because they will be blessing him and blessing his messengers.

That's interesting Molly.  I haven't checked it out..is this talking a yet future event, or when He entered Jerusalem on the donkey and they did indeed welcome and praised Him?  Maybe 2 different things..if yet future, then that's very cool.     Out of all the UR things, I hadn't seen that before.   What do you think about this;

quote - "yeah, he's in hell"...

things are so "messed up".  where to start [with people and their beliefs such as in the facebook posts]?  so many people are deceived.  reminds me of how in Jesus' earthly ministry, so many (almost all) were unable to see Who He was.  further, that's the way it was planned - they were purposely veiled, so that during that age, they were not allowed to "know" Him.  Similarly, could it be that in this age, somehow it's God's will that most are blinded to His ways as far as how He deals with mankind in the ages to come and therefor "eternity"?]

[Molly]

That's interesting Molly. I haven't checked it out..is this talking a yet future event, or when He entered Jerusalem on the donkey and they did indeed welcome and praised Him? Maybe 2 different things..if yet future, then that's very cool.  Out of all the UR things, I hadn't seen that before.

Since these were the Pharisees and Sadducees he was talking to, they never did accept him at that time, but I've always thought it would happen at the end of the age, after the fulness of the Gentiles, which is what I think Paul is saying in Romans 11.  Election is a carry-over from the Old Testament, as I said on another thread.

25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes. [Rom 11]

What do you think about this;

Is that something you wrote?  That's good.  Any responses to it?

[jabcat]

That's interesting Molly. I haven't checked it out..is this talking a yet future event, or when He entered Jerusalem on the donkey and they did indeed welcome and praised Him? Maybe 2 different things..if yet future, then that's very cool.  Out of all the UR things, I hadn't seen that before.

Since these were the Pharisees and Sadducees he was talking to, they never did accept him at that time, but I've always thought it would happen at the end of the age, after the fulness of the Gentiles, which is what I think Paul is saying in Romans 11.  Election is a carry-over from the Old Testament, as I said on another thread.

25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes. [Rom 11]

What do you think about this;

Is that something you wrote?  That's good.  Any responses to it?

OK, very good.  I agree, the Pharisees and Sadducees  as the target audience is significant.


Yes, just some of my thoughts.  Seems overwhelming that so many people believe in eternal torment and all its trappings, but then again, maybe just as in Jesus' day when so many were not allowed to see, maybe it's similar now in this age with other things such as God's plan of ultimate reconciliation (translational errors/issues come to mind as well...allowed for a reason).   

[CHB]

Yes, just some of my thoughts.  Seems overwhelming that so many people believe in eternal torment and all its trappings, but then again, maybe just as in Jesus' day when so many were not allowed to see, maybe it's similar now in this age with other things such as God's plan of ultimate reconciliation (translational errors/issues come to mind as well...allowed for a reason).

I think even we who know about the salvation of all will get a surprise or two when the whole truth is known. I think there are things that we will never know until we see him face to face. Just my thought but I think Paul understood this when he said "we see through a glass darkly".  We only know what God has allowed us to know. 

CHB

[Cardinal]

  I think if we keep pressing in, we'll see Him face to face without this body having to die to do so. I think when the veil was rent, we have unlimited access into the mind of Christ, which is the Father's heart, NOW. My    Blessings....

[WhiteWings]

Yes, just some of my thoughts.  Seems overwhelming that so many people believe in eternal torment and all its trappings, but then again, maybe just as in Jesus' day when so many were not allowed to see, maybe it's similar now in this age with other things such as God's plan of ultimate reconciliation (translational errors/issues come to mind as well...allowed for a reason).   

I think people should honestly ask themselves if they would have recognized Jesus.
First keep in mind those people didn't have the NT for additional hints.
Secondly imagine Jesus returns next year. They real Jesus. No fake, No anti-christ etc. The real one.
If He teaches just a tiny bit different as what denominations hold as truth He will be rejected just like 2000 years ago. The point is that whatever He says it will always be wrong in the views of the majority.
Just assume Jesus teaches this:
- Sunday sabbath is a hoax.
- Trinity is a hoax.
- Free will is a hoax.
- Baptism is strictly required.
- Hell is a hoax.


Because a true Jesus doesn't make mistakes and at least one of the above is seen as a huge mistake the majority will reject Jesus (again)
 

[WhiteWings]

I think if we keep pressing in, we'll see Him face to face without this body having to die to do so. I think when the veil was rent, we have unlimited access into the mind of Christ, which is the Father's heart, NOW. My    Blessings....

The Two Veils

   At last this brings us to the subject of the veils. Now there are two distinct veils in the NT. The first is the veil of the temple (Matt. 27: 51, Mark 15: 38, Luke 23: 45) and the second is the veil of the tabernacle (Heb. 6: 19, 9: 3, 10: 20). The temple veil was rent when Christ died; the tabernacle veil was never rent. Both facts are of equal importance although many speak of 'the rent veil' as if there was only one. To understand the difference between these two veils, one must understand something of the contrast between the temple and the tabernacle.

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