11 Tim. 3:13

[jabcat]

lol

[WhiteWings]

Wait a sec WW.  Atheists are the true Christians?  Maybe this would be easier to swallow if you shared your take on what an atheist is?

Someone who ignores the written word.
Of course there is an even more evolved group; those who reject the written word. You know the it's only spiritual types.

They use no carnal reasoning about God. They just live their lives and patiently waits for God showing the way.
This one just baffles me to no end.

I think all my 9000+ posts have baffled you 

Most of what you do is the very opposite on these boards.

I truely believe you don't have a clue what I said/mean Nathan. I tried to explain so often. Usually you just ignore the explanations so this time I'm will be more direct. Your are so very blinded by your one track mind and vanity you very often don't have  clue what people are writing.

  You use no carnal reasoning about God?

Not my words. Micah's words/defenition. And that defenition is very close to the one you tend to use.

How many endless discussions have there been on the boards where natural reasoning of one person wars against the natural reasoning of another over word definitions, commentaries or quotes from other men's writings in general?  "That's" not carnal reasoning? 

Sure you are way above all that. Luckily you never get into fights. And if you do it's always the other person to blame.

I'm just  . . . speechless at the fact that "you're" the one saying this!  If it was Taffy, Sheila or even Cardinal I'd understand,

And now suddenly you group me with the elect? 
Of course I'm just a blinded pit creature but I would humbly suggest that those 3 persons likely don't promote atheism.

but, you've never been one that embraced things that went much beyond the written word.

I admit I don't feel anything; and never claimed so. But besides of that you are very, very, wrong. I would go as far as claiming that I'm far more open to Biblical things than you are.....
I stand in the middle of a field called Bible and look around and up and down. Unlike some who don't move and look through a narrow tube.


Lemme end with with this:
Some people see a light at and start running toward it because they think the light brings safety.
The more careful types read the signs and figure out the light is the front of an oncoming train.
I'm reading signs Nathan. You?
 

[WhiteWings]

Wait a sec WW.  Atheists are the true Christians?  Maybe this would be easier to swallow if you shared your take on what an atheist is?

They use no carnal reasoning about God. They just live their lives and patiently waits for God showing the way.

This one just baffles me to no end.  Most of what you do is the very opposite on these boards.  You use no carnal reasoning about God?  How many endless discussions have there been on the boards where natural reasoning of one person wars against the natural reasoning of another over word definitions, commentaries or quotes from other men's writings in general?  "That's" not carnal reasoning? 

I'm just  . . . speechless at the fact that "you're" the one saying this!  If it was Taffy, Sheila or even Cardinal I'd understand, but, you've never been one that embraced things that went much beyond the written word.

I think you're not seeing what WW is doing.  He's just making a point to micah, trying to get him to look at what he said a little more closely/from a different angle.   

C'mon bro Nate, don't be so literal.      

Peace.    :)

Finally! Someone who hath understanding 

[Nathan]

I think this could very easily get into a dark place that I don't wish to go, so I won't. 

But I "see" that my postion is based on relationship with the Father.  You may think otherwise of me and I'm absolutely okay with that.  Yet when you involve yourself with biblical matters and claim to deny a relationship with God "that" raises red flags in me which I respond to.  Because from what I've undertstood atheists to be, they don't believe God is God.  And yet you'll go toe to toe with those who have a relationship with God and denounce them . .. all the while, stating you're an atheist.

Are the Scriptures to be taken so lightly that one can claim they're not a follower of Christ and yet confront others with Scripture at the same time? 

And for the record, I've never said it's ONLY spiritual .. .I said it's ALL spiritual.  And if we're called to walk in the spirit and not in the flesh, again, I don't understand the argument.  If natural profits nothing, why the continuance of embracing the literal side of things when they "point" to the Spiritual realization of who Chirst is?  Which is . . .spirit.  So of course I'm going to pursue the spiritual side of everything.  But one can't hold on to natural and attempt to see the spiritual at the same time.  Ya gotta let go of the one before you can experience the other.

[micah7:9]

"Are the Scriptures to be taken so lightly that one can claim they're not a follower of Christ and yet confront others with Scripture at the same time?"

Since I believe the WHOLE ENTIRE BIBLE IS ALL SPIRITUAL and THE SUM OF HIS WORD IS TRUTH

Then I will boldly say that if a person claims that he/she is not a believer and follower of Christ..that the SCRIPTURES
ARE JUST AS POWERFUL AS TO A BELIEVER AND FOLLOWER. The WORD is SPIRIT and Jesus said His WORDS are Spirit and are Life.
Joh 6:63  The spirit, it is, that giveth life,—the flesh, profiteth, nothing: The declarations which, I, have spoken unto you, are, spirit, and, are, life.

And let me add this I have learned much from WW, he is a searcher and miner[at least Im sure he is better that I] with all his digging, he uncovers treasures[now he does not see them] but he pushes so much around when another who is a believer comes along THOSE TREASURES AND NUGGETS OF GOLD JUST SHOUT HEY!

So I thank the Lord for WW and his efforts and work. 

[shawn]

Yeah, I have no issues with WW wanting to debate Bible.  We must be very careful with tokens of pride that seep into our interactions with others.  I believe I am no more entitled to read and study the Bible than any other human being.  My relationship with our Father qualifies me for sonship, and some understanding.  But, it's not a diploma to hang on my wall.  It's not something to use in order to one up someone in a debate.  It's not something I should use to qualify an argument.

When debating and I feel my feathers getting ruffled, I ask myself why.  I would like to think that it's some sort of "righteous anger" but in reality it's merely my unchecked pride the majority of the time.  Someone is questioning my knowledge, my intelligence, or maybe even my relationship with God...and I think how dare they...what are their qualifications?  My mind likes to begin taking an ax to cut out their proverbial legs.  This kind of thing brings me spiritual illness quicker than just about anything else. 

I see different posters here as bringing different things to the table.  I enjoy WWs posts because I appreciate the research.  Yes, he brings natural logic to the table and I read his posts in that light.  But, in my book that doesn't disqualify him from a debate.  He keeps posters on their toes, forces some to think about their stances, and as long as it's not condescending I see no issue with that. 

[WhiteWings]

Yet when you involve yourself with biblical matters and claim to deny a relationship with God "that" raises red flags in me which I respond to.

You rarely respond to me. You just repeat your views.

Because from what I've undertstood atheists to be, they don't believe God is God.

More correctly would be to say they see no proof for God. Or there doubt so much the lean to no God.

And yet you'll go toe to toe with those who have a relationship with God and denounce them . .. all the while, stating you're an atheist.

I didn't live during WW2 but still I know things about that period. so what's your point?
 

Are the Scriptures to be taken so lightly that one can claim they're not a follower of Christ and yet confront others with Scripture at the same time?

Such tricks don't work with me Nathan. I am the one that doesn't take Scriptures lightly. So please don't try to turn things around. I'm confronting you with Scripture. Please forgive me for posting verses on a Christian forum, and using Scripture lightly by assuming it are HS inspired truthful words that can be used as proof for anything.

And for the record, I've never said it's ONLY spiritual .. .I said it's ALL spiritual.

Fine. But it doesn't do any good to your case. In fact if supports my view. I believe the HS is not a carnal dude that penned down so useless carnal ramblings.

And if we're called to walk in the spirit and not in the flesh, again, I don't understand the argument.

I'm not surprised at all.

If natural profits nothing, why the continuance of embracing the literal side of things when they "point" to the Spiritual realization of who Chirst is?

And that exactly is your problem. Or should I say the problem I have with your view.
Even the most hardcore atheist knows the Bible is about spiritual things. (they just don't believe it's true)
My view is that both things are true. Not just one. OT was the age of law. The NT has done that away. We now live in the age of grace. Etc. And then the NT is written. 800 pages of other useless carnal stuff.
BTW that's not my view.

Which is . . .spirit.  So of course I'm going to pursue the spiritual side of everything.  But one can't hold on to natural and attempt to see the spiritual at the same time.  Ya gotta let go of the one before you can experience the other.

Perhaps it's wise to check the carnal stuff to see if the light isn't some guy dressed as an angel of light.

You keep pointing the atheist stick at me but I thinks that's quite unfair. If I was here to ridicule Christianity I could have posted more articles than you can count.
Instead of that I posted many Christian/Jews based articles. I spend countles hours to dig up info people were looking for (I hope) And for your information I even edit my (2 year old) posts if I see I typed Jesus/God/HS/Bible without an uppercase letter. When I'm discussing something with any member on this forum it always is (has been) from a Biblical point of view. Ok, you can call my understanding shallow, wrong, perverted, etc, but still I never challenged anyone on this forum with atheistic views.

[WhiteWings]

And let me add this I have learned much from WW, he is a searcher and miner[at least Im sure he is better that I] with all his digging, he uncovers treasures[now he does not see them]

This is just as hard as explaining timeless with words that all carry the meaning of time.
Really, I have had many "HA!!" moments on this forum. Things like "structures" like this can't be woven in an ancient Book by a nomand that can hardly write. Or this can't be random luck. I'm a mr. Spock. Cold hard logic. No/few emotions. And a cold heart.
The logic/stats pushes me toward a conclusion most on this forum reached long ago. But something blocks me from crossing "the great gulf fixed". So I pick up my cross shovel daily and throw some dust in the gulf. One day it will be safe to cross

but he pushes so much around when another who is a believer comes along THOSE TREASURES AND NUGGETS OF GOLD JUST SHOUT HEY!

So I thank the Lord for WW and his efforts and work. 

It's all in a days works 
A day that has nearly ended

[jabcat]

Finally! Someone who hath understanding 

 

Yeah, I have no issues with WW wanting to debate Bible.  We must be very careful with tokens of pride that seep into our interactions with others.  I believe I am no more entitled to read and study the Bible than any other human being.  My relationship with our Father qualifies me for sonship, and some understanding.  But, it's not a diploma to hang on my wall.  It's not something to use in order to one up someone in a debate.  It's not something I should use to qualify an argument.

When debating and I feel my feathers getting ruffled, I ask myself why.  I would like to think that it's some sort of "righteous anger" but in reality it's merely my unchecked pride the majority of the time.  Someone is questioning my knowledge, my intelligence, or maybe even my relationship with God...and I think how dare they...what are their qualifications?  My mind likes to begin taking an ax to cut out their proverbial legs.  This kind of thing brings me spiritual illness quicker than just about anything else. 

I see different posters here as bringing different things to the table.  I enjoy WWs posts because I appreciate the research.  Yes, he brings natural logic to the table and I read his posts in that light.  But, in my book that doesn't disqualify him from a debate.  He keeps posters on their toes, forces some to think about their stances, and as long as it's not condescending I see no issue with that. 

Amen.  In agreement.  We come from different perspectives.  The principal participants in this discussion bring much to the table.  We are fortunate to have such wonderful things shared.  Good for all.   IMO, it's great to discuss, reason, maybe even try to convince just a little.  But at some point,

 1As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions.  3Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him.  ..It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
 5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike... none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. ..Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

 [This one has hit me right between the eyes before and stopped me dead in my tracks]    10Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11for it is written,

    "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
   and every tongue shall confess to God."

 12So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.  Romans 14

Amen.

The OP;

2Ti 3:13  But evil men and impostors shall wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.

Who is Paul directing his words to?

And here also
 2Ti 4:3  for there shall be a season when the sound teaching they will not suffer, but according to their own desires to themselves they shall heap up teachers--itching in the hearing,
2Ti 4:4  and indeed, from the truth the hearing they shall turn away, and to the fables they shall be turned aside.

[Green-Arrow]

In the title of this thread, either you meant IITimothy, or I'm missing about 9 epistles from my New Testament

[Cardinal]

  I'm thankful for WW and his heart to do what he does in research. It's plain to me to see the Spirit working thru and for him, and a blessing to see the incredible transformation the Lord has wrought in him since he arrived here. (Not that you were so "bad" to begin with, but rather that your heart is so open to receive.)

It gives me great joy, in fact, and I can only imagine what the Lord has planned for him as He completes the work in him and fulfills his purpose. My  Blessings...

[WhiteWings]

Good that you wrote in another post you don't know everything, because this is one of those moments

but rather that your heart is so open to receive

Heart usually equals love. Maybe that's my problem. I don't know the emotion love

[sheila]

STARS THAT USED TO TWINKLE IN THE SKIES,ARE TWINKLING IN MY EYES,I WONDER WHY.

   BIRDS ARE SINGING AND THE TREES ARE BARE....i WONDER WHY....

    PERFECT LOVE CASTS OUT FEAR.....SOMEDAY YOU'LL MAKE THE LEAP

    THE ABOVE IS THE SONG THAT COME TO MIND FOLLOWING YOUR COMMENT...'I WONDER WHY,YOUR'E JUST IN LOVE'