Discussions Relating to Universal Reconciliation > Judgement and Punishment

11 Tim. 3:13

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micah7:9:
2Ti 3:13  But evil men and impostors shall wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.

Who is Paul directing his words to?

And here also
 2Ti 4:3  for there shall be a season when the sound teaching they will not suffer, but according to their own desires to themselves they shall heap up teachers--itching in the hearing,
2Ti 4:4  and indeed, from the truth the hearing they shall turn away, and to the fables they shall be turned aside.

jabcat:
Now this  :wink3: is where I personally believe there is writing and warnings about these times - seems to have perhaps started in Paul's times, and beginning unto now ["waxing worse and worse"]? 

As you talked in that other post about the current state of religion, with its institutionalization, denominational requirements, etc.  Starting in Paul's time, all the way through the Dark Ages (Roman "church") with the "hijacking" of Christianity - that was apparently a real mess - with its results still prevalent today in almost all "churches".   :2c:

I like how Gary Amirault has described this current age as being a mixture of truth and error, as its doctrines/beliefs are a jumble of Law and grace.

jabcat:
Some believe we've "turned the corner", the great falling away has already occured, and things are just going to get better from here.  It might be interesting to see their take on this. 

micah7:9:
It started way before Paul, Jesus knew it had been going on for a while. Paul is talking to the "church" in Timothy. I reason
that it was not possible that he was talking to people outside of the church, there was no reason to. With an honest eye just look at the "church" today, the lucre and the divisions, alone should make one ashamed.

Mat_7:15  Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat_24:11  And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat_23:13  But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Mat_23:14  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
Mat_23:15  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Mat_23:23  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Mat_23:25  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat_23:27  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mat_23:29  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
Mat_24:51  And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

jabcat:
Yes, I agree, in your original posted scrips from 2 Tim. it was to the "church".   :thumbsup:    I can see where my saying "seems to have started in Paul's times" would not be clear.  :mblush:   But I was just talking about the "church age" [the age of the nations - us, Gentiles] that Paul was apparently addressing - post-cross in the 2 Timothy scrips.

I agree, Jesus was also talking about "religious problems" before that, to the Jewish nation, the scribes and pharisees that were in control of the temple worship. He identified in vs. 27 who He was talking to there; "woe to you, scribes and Pharisees"..    They also had major problems.  They crucified the Savior.

I guess falling away is man's nature, without God's intervention.  Seems there's been falling away of some sort or another since the book of Genesis.  If there was only 2 people on earth, 1 of them would probably be "falling away".   :mshock:   Paul seemed to be saying it would continue throughout the "church age", getting worse and worse.  Seems to me Christianity as whole is not in too good of shape today.

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