Author Topic: The Light or the light  (Read 1845 times)

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Offline WhiteWings

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The Light or the light
« on: July 01, 2011, 09:42:56 PM »
Assume you have a vision or NDE. The classic stuff. You float away toward a peaceful white light. That light gives you a  teaching you must spread on earth. You return to your conscious state. After a few drinks you realize you don't (fully) understand that teaching. You pick up your fav Bible and do some research. You find something. But it doesn't exactly fit in place. You don't fully understand the Bible and/or vision. Or perhaps the vision was fake. It was satan dressed as an angel of light.
How do you know if you spoke with Jesus or with satan?

Get that Bible :thumbsup: workin'  :icon_jokercolor:
« Last Edit: July 03, 2011, 10:11:14 PM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline jabcat

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Re: The Light or the light
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2011, 05:39:55 AM »
Boy, have I wondered about this one!

Some NDEs I've read just don't seem like they line up with scripture AT ALL.  While others seem different than "what I've always believed", yet I can go to the scriptures and see how it could fit, maybe just something I haven't understood before.

For me, it can't be anything that's seems clearly against the scriptures (given that I don't understand it all, have my own mis-interpretations, etc.).  Here an example of a "red flag!  this is clearly against scripture";  "the light told me it's really OK that I murdered someone, mankind will one day understand this".

Here's one that's more like, "well, maybe this is just something I haven't fully as yet understood";  "everytime I called the name of Jesus, I was drawn back up to the Light and felt love and forgiveness.  As soon as I recognized I needed a Savior and called on Him, my judgment was over.  It was a matter of minutes, not years".
Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

Offline jabcat

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Re: The Light or the light
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2011, 05:43:56 AM »
Many things I take the stance, "I'm not sure, but I think we better be careful".

There's scripture that states satan appears as an angel of light, IIRC.
Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The Light or the light
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2011, 05:54:22 AM »
It's not about what's against the Scriptures. It's what you+ think is against the Scriptures.
If you for 100% fact knew you met Jesus, would you go against His wish because you are unable to verify it with the Bible.
I guess the answer is no.
So it's not about understanding the NDE but about knowing who gave that NDE.
I think the answer is hidden in plain sight.
 :winkgrin:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The Light or the light
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2011, 05:56:16 AM »
Many things I take the stance, "I'm not sure, but I think we better be careful".

There's scripture that states satan appears as an angel of light, IIRC.
ACV2 Corinthians 11
14 And no marvel, for even Satan disguises himself into an agent of light.

Enjoy the hunt. 4:55am here. Time for  a nap.

Fear of the dark
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline jabcat

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Re: The Light or the light
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2011, 05:57:12 AM »
But that's my point.  If it's something (I understand) to be "clearly" against the scriptures, then I wouldn't believe it was Jesus.  I'd believe it to be deception, i.e., a light vs. the Light.
Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

Offline jabcat

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Re: The Light or the light
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2011, 05:58:26 AM »
So......if I was actually in a NDE, wonder if I would KNOW for sure if it was Jesus' presence I was in.  I'd think so....

get some rest :)
Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

Offline jabcat

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Re: The Light or the light
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2011, 06:00:06 AM »
..but then I've read stuff where the NDE'er apparently really thought they were in Divine Presence (interpreted as such anyway) where they were reporting (IMO) some wacky stuff that was against recorded scripture    :sigh:

I'll think about this some more...
Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The Light or the light
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2011, 06:05:01 AM »
I'll give you a hint.... don't overcomplicate and look for the Scriptual hint in the OP.
That was 2 hints :winkgrin:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline jabcat

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Re: The Light or the light
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2011, 06:24:53 AM »
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.  Galatians 1:8???
Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

Offline Pierac

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Re: The Light or the light
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2011, 07:07:52 AM »
Joh 15:4  "Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.

Luk 6:43  For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 44  For every tree is known by his own fruit...




Paul

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The Light or the light
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2011, 01:16:51 PM »
So Paul, who gave the vision? Jesus or satan? (why)
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Online sheila

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Re: The Light or the light
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2011, 04:38:22 PM »
satan does indeed have and exercize the power to deceive. Understanding and unsealing comes through Jesus Christ,Holy spirit and word of God.  2 or 3 wittnesses should

establish the truth...you should see..the Father's words..Jesus testimony and Holy ghost testimony in accord.  Why even the revelation of the salvation of all,is

borne wittness to in this way. God's grace is testified to in this way.  Lo! I COME IN THE ROLL OF THE BOOK,it is written of me

Offline Pierac

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Re: The Light or the light
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2011, 12:27:59 AM »
So Paul, who gave the vision? Jesus or satan? (why)

Paul (the other one) said no less than 6 times...  All is of GOD. 

Paul

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The Light or the light
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2011, 12:39:45 AM »
My guess...

You float aware toward a peaceful white light.

Can satan give  peacful feeling?
 :2c:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Online sheila

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Re: The Light or the light
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2011, 01:00:54 AM »
 and I will draw him on the last day......

   can't imagine satan being peaceful..seems to me he would continue doing evil..accusing the brethern[hell/damnation visions] until he is seperated

  fom them

Offline Pierac

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Re: The Light or the light
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2011, 07:35:36 AM »
My guess...

You float aware toward a peaceful white light.

Can satan give  peacful feeling?
 :2c:

All is of God!!!

Even peaceful white light created from His advisory.  :wink:

Paul

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The Light or the light
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2011, 07:49:26 AM »
So false teachings given by satan should be followed by the letter because false teachings in reality come from God?
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Aleax

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Re: The Light or the light
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2011, 10:57:16 AM »
John 14:27 (ESV) Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid.
Behold, I make a few things new.

The Plan of The Ages: God's Unfailing Love Revealed in the Cross

Offline thinktank

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Re: The Light or the light
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2011, 06:29:27 PM »
My guess...

You float aware toward a peaceful white light.

Can satan give  peacful feeling?
 :2c:

All is of God!!!

Even peaceful white light created from His advisory.  :wink:

Paul


You mean Satan stole God peace.

I remember Lefein saying that God spoke to him and said, **don't mess with stolen fire** or something

Not sure how satan works. Some see him as a pure dark being, something like the grim reaper and has lost his mind gone insane. But there is a problem with that and that is that satan can craft strategies and devices and work plans, something an insane person who have difficulty with.

Being some kind of angelic being/cherub, the bible says that he can transform himself into an angel of light. Trouble is when we have preconceived ideas of who Satna is therefore conclude that Satan appearing as a benevlent angel or ascended master is imposible.

« Last Edit: July 03, 2011, 06:38:18 PM by thinktank »

Offline jabcat

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Re: The Light or the light
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2011, 09:51:42 PM »
So false teachings given by satan should be followed by the letter because false teachings in reality come from God?

Let me think about that.



Uh, no.    :happygrin:
Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The Light or the light
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2011, 11:24:55 PM »
Boy, have I wondered about this one!

Some NDEs I've read just don't seem like they line up with scripture AT ALL.  While others seem different than "what I've always believed", yet I can go to the scriptures and see how it could fit, maybe just something I haven't understood before.

For me, it can't be anything that's seems clearly against the scriptures (given that I don't understand it all, have my own mis-interpretations, etc.).  Here an example of a "red flag!  this is clearly against scripture";  "the light told me it's really OK that I murdered someone, mankind will one day understand this".
Firstly: Killing is only murder when it's against the law. God ordered many killings (war). So if God (=supreme law) gives you the order it won't be murder.

Assuming you believe in a literal return of Jesus. The voice tells you Jesus will return soon but the high priest of CoS intends to kill Him. You are ordered to kill the priest.
Or you are ordered to kill the next Hitler.


Quote
Here's one that's more like, "well, maybe this is just something I haven't fully as yet understood";  "everytime I called the name of Jesus, I was drawn back up to the Light and felt love and forgiveness.  As soon as I recognized I needed a Savior and called on Him, my judgment was over.  It was a matter of minutes, not years".
And that is because you believe in UR. The other 99% of Christianity would see it as a false vision because after death there is absolutely no way to change your destiny.


Anyway I posted this in the jokes section as a riddle....
I think the answer is:
- It was Jesus because satan is unable to give that feeling of peace.
- It was Jesus because He is also known by His fruits. Love. And that's a fruit satan doesn't have.


1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...