Author Topic: If we are all God's children then we are all brothers and sisters...  (Read 1463 times)

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Offline Seth

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Re: If we are all God's children then we are all brothers and sisters...
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2014, 01:31:39 AM »
I think there is a distinction between the "brotherhood of man" as it might be called, and sonship with Christ unto God. When I see people hurt or starving on the news I feel a brotherhood with them simply from an empathy point of view. We've all shared suffering. But the sonship with Christ is for believers unto a special purpose in the fulfillment of God's plans.

Jesus felt that empathy for evry human being who ever lived. Being sons of God is not about judgment. God judges men out of their own consciences(Rom 2; heb 4)

Paul said the foundation of God is sealed with these words-"The Lord knows those who are His and let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity".

Making a distinction is one thing, trying to apply that distinction to someone is another thing entirely- "Why go on judging before the time?"

Jesus made distinctions, (sons of the evil one, children of light)- but He loved evryone and offered hope to all- any who would bow the knee to the love of God which He embodied- and He trusted God that all would eventually come.

"If I be lifted up from the earth I will draw all men unto me."

I don't believe judgement is a bad thing, first of all, though I think it's gotten a bad rap and misunderstanding in Christianity. But the purpose for the sons of God are clearly outlined in Romans 8 and 1 Cor 6 and Romans 2:27. Check out Psalm 149 (notice the instruments they use) and Revelation 2:26. The Bible says to rejoice for God comes to judge the earth. Nevertheless, feeling a kind of kinship with everyone is an appropriate thing in my opinion.

« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 01:45:44 AM by Seth »

Offline onesimus

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Re: If we are all God's children then we are all brothers and sisters...
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2014, 02:56:17 AM »
For the Father judges no man, but has committed all judgment unto the Son (John 5:22)

According the Greek, the word judges is a word that literally means to pick out or choose (see Strongs and J. thayer ). The word committed means to give in many different senses, including to place or to put. In a general sense, the word judgement means divine judgement or accusation and is most commonly used in the sense of a negative, condemning verdict upon sin deserving of condemnation.

 The verse could equally be written:

The father picks out no man, but has put all judgement (all accusation) onto the Son.

Some versions of the bible have the verse reading to say that Jesus has been given the authority to judge. If this interpretation seems more reasonable for you - so be it. The word of God is alive and active! Cling to it if it for as long as it is yours in your heart :) For me, this verse and context is seen in the light of Calvary, where every scripture and context is ultimately enlightened, when all judgement was placed upon Christ in direct fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecy of the suffering servant (Isaiah 53: 4-12).
 
As for our (the saints) role in judgement of others, both now and in the future, it is the same measure of judgement...forever...For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

By what measure am I judged? By the measure of Christ upon his cross
By what measure shall I judge? By the measure of Christ upon his cross

Yes, 'the earth rejoices as God comes to judge the earth' - because it was His punishment that brought us peace...

For judgement I have come into the world

Not to give it out but to take it on himself

When we find his cross's judgement for ourselves we find his cross's judgement for others

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Offline Tom

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Re: If we are all God's children then we are all brothers and sisters...
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2014, 03:07:45 AM »
"Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just award for all mankind for life's justifying. For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just." (Romans 5:18,19)

Offline Seth

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Re: If we are all God's children then we are all brothers and sisters...
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2014, 03:12:01 AM »
Christ upon the cross means that all must be crucified to their flesh as he was. That's what believe is the judgment of the world.

"For when we are judged we are chastened of the Lord that we should not be condemned (katakrino - downjudged) with the world." (1Cor 11:32)

« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 03:27:37 AM by Seth »

Offline Seth

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Re: If we are all God's children then we are all brothers and sisters...
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2014, 03:13:25 AM »
"Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just award for all mankind for life's justifying. For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just." (Romans 5:18,19)

 :thumbsup:

Absolutely, that will indeed happen. I believe in universal salvation.

Offline rosered

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Re: If we are all God's children then we are all brothers and sisters...
« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2014, 04:06:11 AM »

 
  prince world judged   John 16 1"I have spoken these things with you that you would not be subverted."


 2"For they shall put you out from their assemblies, and the hour will come when everyone who would kill you will think that he presents an offering to God."

3"And they shall do these things because they do not know either my Father or me."


 4"I have spoken these things with you that when their time comes, you will remember them;


 I did not tell you these things before, because I was with you."
5"But now I am going to join him who sent me, and no man among you asks me, 'Where are you going?'"


6"For I said these things to you and sadness has come and has filled your hearts."

 7"I tell you the truth: it is beneficial for you that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Redeemer of the accursed will not come to you, but if I depart I shall send him to you." 8"And when he comes, he will correct the world concerning sin and concerning righteousness and concerning judgment;" 9"Concerning sin, because they do not trust me;" 10"Concerning righteousness, because I will go to my Father's presence and you will not see me again;" 11"Concerning judgment, because The Prince of this world is judged."

12"I have much to say to you, but you are not able to grasp it now." 13"But whenever The Spirit of The Truth comes, he will lead you into the whole truth, for he will not speak of his own will, but he shall speak whatever he shall hear and he shall reveal the future to you." 14"And he shall glorify me, because he shall take that which is mine and shall show you." 15"Everything that my Father has is mine, therefore I said to you that he shall take that which is mine and he shall show you."

16"A little while and you will not see me; again a little while and you will see me because I am going to the presence of The Father."



John 5

21"For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes.

 22"For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son,


 23so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him



 39And Yeshua said, "For the judgment of this world I have come, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind."



 40And those of the Pharisees who had been with him heard these things and they said to him,


 "Are we also blind?"

 41Yeshua said to them,

"If you were blind, you would not have sin, but now you say, 'We see.' Because of this, your sin stands."


 
 
 So is it that ,   those that judge are being judged by the very law they   speak in favor of !!!    when the sin remains it is a stain    or mark of division  as a filthy garment    or nakedness even ?    :eek:

Offline Seth

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Re: If we are all God's children then we are all brothers and sisters...
« Reply #31 on: September 28, 2014, 04:27:10 AM »
Rose, check out Isaiah 30 all the way from top to bottom especially concerning what imperfection causes the wall to come down and how God patiently waits for repentance. Its an amazing chapter.  :HeartThrob:

Offline onesimus

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Re: If we are all God's children then we are all brothers and sisters...
« Reply #32 on: September 28, 2014, 08:20:46 AM »


 39And Yeshua said, "For the judgment of this world I have come, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind."



 40And those of the Pharisees who had been with him heard these things and they said to him,


 "Are we also blind?"

 41Yeshua said to them,

"If you were blind, you would not have sin, but now you say, 'We see.' Because of this, your sin stands."


 
 
 So is it that ,   those that judge are being judged by the very law they   speak in favor of !!!    when the sin remains it is a stain    or mark of division  as a filthy garment    or nakedness even ?    :eek:

Lots of truth in your great post of scriptures, Rose :)

As for the pharisees, even they find mercy..For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Still, yes, that law which they served under (in bondage) was also that which judged them.
We also can fall into this well-stocked pit. For if we upgrade (or, more rightly, downgrade) the writings from Mathew to Revelation into laws to which we are subject, we place ourselves back under the same bondage of the Pharisees. For by the same principle, whereby James said that "whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble at one point, is guilty of all" we become obliged to all the instructions, precepts and commands of these books. (James 2:10). Guilty of one, guilty of all..

Praise God for the cross (the actual New Testament - Luke 22:20). It's the place to be! Especially for those who have found themselves unable to keep laws - whatever sort and however few or many they may be :).

This is why Paul said the New Covenant is not written (2 Corinthians 3:6) - for when we attempt to reduce, define and limit the New Covenant with written words they soon become mere laws, and we rebuild that system of law, sin and death which - for our freedom - Christ came to destroy.

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. (NIV)

So Christ has truly set us free. Now make sure that you stay free, and don't get tied up again in slavery to the law.
(NLV)

If we are not under law who can judge us?

 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things? Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies; who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. (Romans 8: 32-34)

Offline rosered

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Re: If we are all God's children then we are all brothers and sisters...
« Reply #33 on: September 28, 2014, 05:31:31 PM »
 
 Thanks Seth and Simon ,I appreciate       you both answering  in different ways .

 I am going to   make this one post      for both  ,


  I did read   Isaiah   30   all of it and do see this as prophecy to be fulfilled in Christ    as Jesus Witness " He would  do this  very thing " .
 
 a deadly wound is healed  in Judah  ..    for me those  young lions  of Ezekiel 19    of failure , I see the beast natures of them  as Lions devouring one another .
 

 We know Jesus is of the Lion tribe of Judah       Rev 5 ;5 Then one of the elders said to me,

 "Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed.


 He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals."
 
 I do believe  beyond a shadow of a  doubt  , when Jesus come     as a babe , lamb     in the fullness of time    and  grew strong in Spirit  Luke 1 :80 And the child grew and became strong in spirit; and he lived in the wilderness until he appeared publicly to Israel.

   and as He  ministered HE DID JUDGE   what was right in the sight of God , healing the broken and the poor and   prisoners    bound by sin and ignorance       a darkness of the Knowledge of God  , He also judged the scribes   ,  ones who had the word of God   and lawyers  who knew the Law  of Moses and   showed NO MERCY        with  2 or 3 false witnesses       and also judged the self righteous   Pharisees    those in power to make a difference and only abused this power to lord and master over the    weak and   pitiful , while they  become more fat and wicked  with every    turn  , to become prey  themselves in the end to Gods  wrath  against them
 
 
 they put Jesus to death  , they did not  desire this King over them    , they wanted to reign as kings themselves   for a time    and everyone was at their mercy    and used the Law of Moses to destroy others
  just as we see it  being fulfilled in the east  countries  even now !!    they say they SEE  , because they know the Law  and still reject Jesus Christ to this very day
 
 so the same sin /error remains    , they have stumbled over the  stumbling   STONE and rock of offense   
 
  We also can  be as they are and  not even realize it   , we want Law and justice and  hate sin   and  yet    allow our own sins and   the ones we love and support as   forgiven and ignored     ,      But still     wont forgive them ???

 I agree with you Simon , you have made a very good      case  , If we accept the Cross of Jesus Christ as the place to lay  down   sin   in our own lives and  the judgment of sin    as Christ being the Just Judge     so being the Lord of the dead and living     
  and allow Him to fulfill all things   by faith trusting His judgement        as righteous   there would be no need to judge  anything before its time , because the TIME      would be when the LORD COMES   
 
  and our witness would be   to declare His righteousness  in the earth and  help    those whom are broken and bound and    are still under    guilt   because of sin 
How can they be set free unless the LORD COMES ?   and How does He come  ?
   the Brightness of His coming       in the SAME SPIRIT OF HOLINESS AND TRUTH            to them as was also given to us
 
   to put that old man of sin to death and make the new man in Christ  ALIVE to God  for Gods own purpose  .
 
   For me the spirit of slumber is very much upon the churches   today       fulfilling the  10 virgins parable   even today !!  the wise and foolish ones   still  exist

  Romans 11 7 What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened; 8just as it is written, "GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR, EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT, DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY." 9And David says, "LET THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP, AND A STUMBLING BLOCK AND A RETRIBUTION TO THEM.
 
 For one thing who is Israel but Gods first born     ?  but is  Gods  chosen and who is  Christ Jesus but HIS OWN   SON 

Being  under the Law of Moses     the curse was   to kill the first born son      , that is the same spirit of slumber  /stupor 
 
  being   under     is bondage and overcoming is on top  of that very Law of the knowledge of  good and evil         
  Jesus is the Tree of Life     and we all must overcome the knowledge of good and evil in order to  EAT  of the tree of life
 
   Jesus said make the tree good and its fruits good   or make it corrupt     and also its fruit      a tree is KNOWN   by its fruits
 
   How are we to be KNOWN ?       To be Like Jesus  , a tree of life  ? ,  or the corrupt tree    still under the same sin and corruption      that has always been   in Gods  garden 

  Jesus hung on the tree of knowledge of good and evil      , that was HIS CROSS TO BEAR !!      same cross we have to follow  Him  into   that baptism of death
  in order  for the    sin  to end        , that  Satan or no man can condemn   accuse  nor     judge    for    the  TREE OF LIFE    to come
 
  If sinless perfection is    to be the new creatures in Christ WE  have to OBEY        HIS WORDS  BY HIS SPIRIT     , THIS RESURRECTION   and Life   
 
 HOW ??        for one Jesus tells us exactly how to overcome the world     and its sinful  sway
 
 We have to fight against a  carnal  nature that     wants to   rule and reign  and have dominance        and power over   everything     that crosses our path 

 and cannot ever justify it with scriptures    and a spirit in a man      , these will not do   ever !! :sigh:
 
   When you let  Christ   reign your heart  , you will  rest in hope,    a true hope       and not become weary     
 I was looking at the evil one      yesterday          , that one we must overcome    every last one of us    , God is fair     , it can only be       though Christ   power and blood     and not of ourselves
 
  the evil one  or  just evil is full of toils and hardships and  sickness and   troubles  , just as we see in   the world    , this WITNESS   against Christ
 

 
 and you know what ? it goes  all the way back to cain      , YES CAIN !!      the same curse God places on him   , being a man   and his brothers blood   he spilled on the ground    by anger and jealousy     

 Cain has a mark on him that any man kill him  ,  he was under the  7 fold curse  ,  but cain was banished from  Gods presence  and  set out to wander    and would produce nothing   but labors and toils and   troubles and everything he   put his hand to turned   to  nothing good !!
 
 
 I believe this is the wrath of God abiding on the children of disobedience   ,
   

 TWO marks/As  signs         As  any man   who wanted to kill him was also given   this curse    as a mark of the beast ,    cannot buy trade or sell   their own souls /lives   for the     the truth nor eat of the fruits of the Spirit   and life , tree of Life
 
 as the wrath of God  is upon him
 
  and those with the mark of Christ  are sealed  till the day of redemption    and the wrath of God does not  abide or dwell on  or in  them  , but the wrath of man  does

 Allegory  , in   Galatians 4


 You Are Children of the Promise
21 Those who want to be controlled by Moses' laws should tell me something. Are you really listening to what Moses' Teachings say? 22 Scripture says that Abraham had two sons, one by a woman who was a slave and the other by a free woman. 23 Now, the son of the slave woman was conceived in a natural way, but the son of the free woman was conceived through a promise made to Abraham.

24 I'm going to use these historical events as an illustration. The women illustrate two arrangements.[c] The one woman, Hagar, is the arrangement made on Mount Sinai. Her children are born into slavery. 25 Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia. She is like Jerusalem today because she and her children are slaves. 26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. 27 Scripture says:

"Rejoice, women who cannot get pregnant,
    who cannot give birth to any children!
    Break into shouting, those who feel no pains of childbirth!
    Because the deserted woman will have more children
        than the woman who has a husband."
28 Now you, brothers and sisters, are children of the promise like Isaac.

29 Furthermore, at that time the son who was conceived in a natural way persecuted the son conceived in a spiritual way. That's exactly what's happening now. 30 But what does Scripture say? "Get rid of the slave woman and her son, because the son of the slave woman must never share the inheritance with the son of the free woman." 31 Brothers and sisters, we are not children of a slave woman but of the free woman.
     
   the seeds of the two   that come   from the tree of knowledge of good and evil   [of Adam & Eve  eating of the forbidden   tree   produced    death & life ]       are enmities   of  the head and the  heel bruising  /wounds of   striking    each other as blows 

 
 But Jesus Christ come to   fulfill  all the law  ,   of both trees   , the knowledge of Good and evil and the  tree of Life   
 
   He come to open the seals of the Book  . law of Moses    and  make known by the knowledge of God     , so BOTH SONGS are Sung in the heavens       ,  song of Moses and the  song of the Lamb       Deut  32    Exodus 15
 
  under the    2 or 3 witnesses   AS   MERCY   !,         Both the old and new testaments and    by His own Spirit of  Truth   & the Word of God
 
 This is soooo  long     , sorry  if it does not hold interest        in some ,   The  thing is there is a lot more
 
  :HeartThrob:
 
 
   
« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 06:26:19 PM by rosered »

Offline Seth

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Re: If we are all God's children then we are all brothers and sisters...
« Reply #34 on: September 28, 2014, 08:35:08 PM »
Quote from: rosered
Cain has a mark on him that any man kill him  ,  he was under the  7 fold curse  ,  but cain was banished from  Gods presence  and  set out to wander    and would produce nothing   but labors and toils and   troubles and everything he   put his hand to turned   to  nothing good !!

This is the wrath of God abiding on the children of disobedience

  :iagree:

And this is the breach in their wall that bulges until the wall comes crashing down. It's an effective way to bring about repentance.