Author Topic: So You Don't Want To Go To Church Anymore?  (Read 12565 times)

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Offline ForeverForgivin

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Re: So You Don't Want To Go To Church Anymore?
« Reply #50 on: January 05, 2014, 03:20:20 AM »
That's very helpful, thank you both. I will keep praying and seeking God's will on the matter. Ultimately I believe he is calling me out of the church. I just need to take a step out in faith and trust him.   :Peace2:

And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. John 12:32 KJV

Offline Cardinal

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Re: So You Don't Want To Go To Church Anymore?
« Reply #51 on: April 15, 2014, 06:52:31 PM »
 :cloud9: This is an old thread but felt to add to it. I was out of any organized attempt at religion by the Lord's hand for probably 20+ years by this time. I was never allowed by Him to go thru the formalities of joining and pledging allegiance to any sect or it's doctrines, but early in my walk I did attend primarily for corporate worship.

I didn't go to learn what they believed, I was busy spending hours in the Word myself a day, seeing what HE wanted me to believe. If they said something that lined up with what I was seeing, that was great, and when it didn't, I ignored it or put it on a shelf for later to dissect and discern if it was "digestable". Discerning of spirits is the mirror image of our sense of smell in the natural, and as in the natural it doesn't take long to figure out if something stinks and begins to breed worms, don't eat it!

He recently let me attend, sporadically, a Messianic Jewish church, no doubt in part, because they are the closest in form to what I have had formed IN ME. And it has blessed me. I won't however, ever be a member of any church, EXCEPT the church I was birthed into, the church of the firstborn, CHRIST.

IMO this is the ONLY CONGREGATION/BODY He is interested in forming, all of the others despite their best intentions, have built their own kingdoms and I refuse to belong to an external one, when He is busy building the internal one, and the ONLY ONE we are told to fellowship with as we see the time approaching. I fellowship with HIM, wherever I find Him. And He is sometimes found in the darnest places.  :winkgrin:  my :2c:  Blessings....
« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 06:55:38 PM by Cardinal »
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: So You Don't Want To Go To Church Anymore?
« Reply #52 on: April 15, 2014, 07:17:10 PM »
I did attend primarily for corporate worship.
How can there be anything 'corporate' when there are a zillion things you disagree with?
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Cardinal

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Re: So You Don't Want To Go To Church Anymore?
« Reply #53 on: April 15, 2014, 08:33:31 PM »
 :cloud9: Easy. Worship is also praise and prayer. I don't have to agree with a thing they say to worship God with them. I just don't listen to their fables.  :banana:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline lastpost

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Re: So You Don't Want To Go To Church Anymore?
« Reply #54 on: April 15, 2014, 10:09:52 PM »
As the subject of churches and worship has come up, it may or may not be of interest to some but I will write it anyway.

On Friday, after I have finished my shift at the hospital (collecting hospital refuse) in my church we are having a short and simple service although there will be but a handful of humans, as I have done for the last two decades or so.

Essentially, I will just read the sayings of the Cross and a pertinent paragraph or two about each from the Holy Book. It will go something like this...

MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAST THOU FORSAKEN ME?

FATHER, FORGIVE THEM, FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO.

VERILY, I SAY UNTO THEE, TODAY SHALT THOU BE WITH ME IN PARADISE.

FATHER, INTO THY HANDS I COMMEND MY SPIRIT.

WOMAN, BEHOLD THY SON, (then said He to the disciple) BEHOLD THY MOTHER.

I THIRST.

IT IS FINISHED!


These will be interspersed throughout the service but I will not trouble you with the text surrounding the sayings which you already know well.

A hymn may be sung here or maybe later.

Then I may read:

"How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace, that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation, that saith unto Zion: Thy God reigneth! Thy watchman shall lift up the voice; with the voice together they sing, for they shall see eye to eye, when the Lord shall bring again Zion.

Who hath believed our report, and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? For He shall grow up before Him a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground. He hath no form nor comliness; and when we shall see Him, there is no beauty that we should desire Him. He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; and we hid as it were our faces from Him.
"

Then we may say the Lord's Prayer and then I may pray:

O Tender Father, we thank Thee for the gift of Thy Son Jesus Christ, Who came to live on Earth as man, to be our example in loving obedience to Thy Will. In His great love He endured the agony of the Garden and the Cross that He might bring all men into fellowship with Thee. Grant us Thy Holy Spirit so that we may have grace to follow in His footsteps, and work with Him to establish Thy kingdom of peace on Earth, to the glory of Thy Name. Amen.

Then I may read:

"Surely He hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows; yet we did esteem Him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

But He was wounded for our transgressions; He was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement of our peace was upon Him; and with His stripes, we are healed.

All we, like sheep, have gone astray; we have turned, everyone to his own way.

He was afflicted; yet he opened not His mouth. He is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before the shearers is dumb, so He openeth not His mouth.

He was taken from prison and from judgement; and He made His grave with the wicked, and with the rich in His death, because He had done no violence; neither was any deceit in His mouth.
"

Then I may pray something like:

LORD Jesus, by Thy loneliness and suffering on the Cross, draw near unto all who are desolate and in pain or sorrow this day.

Heal the sick,
Comfort the bereaved,
Sustain the anxious.

Visit with Thy redeeming love all who are in trouble. May Thy Presence transform their loneliness into comfort, and their darkness into holy fellowship with Thee. Amen.


Then I may pray:

O Saviour Christ, Whose love is without measure, grant unto us a greater consciousness of our frailty and our weakness. May we ever remember Thy cry of loneliness on the Cross so that if we should ever be in seeming desolation this link with Thee might bring forth our courage, and raise our souls closer to God, our Father, even as Thou didst in Thine hour of agony. Amen.

Then I may say something like:

Let us remember the comforting and blessed words of the promise of our Lord:


"If ye keep My commandments, ye shall abide in My love, even as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love. Ye are My friends if ye do whatsoever I command you. These things I command you, that ye love one another."

Then I may read this poem:

"His are the thousand sparkling rills,
That from a thousand fountains burst,
And fill with music all the hills,
And yet, He saith, "I thirst."

All fiery pangs on battlefields,
On fever beds, where sick men toss,
Are in that human cry He yields,
To anguish on the Cross.

But more than pains that racked Him then
Was the deep longing, thirst Divine,
That thirsted for the souls of men.
Dear Lord, and one was mine!

O Love most patient, give me grace,
Make all my soul athirst for Thee,
That parched dry lip, that fading face,
That thirst - were all for me.
"
(Mrs. C. F. Alexander)

Then I may pray:

Almighty Father, we humbly beseech Thee mercifully to behold this, Thy family, for which our Lord Jesus Christ was willing to be betrayed and delivered into the hands of wicked men, and to suffer death upon the Cross.

Grant that we may so accept the gift of His sacrifice that we may glorify His Name by our living service to all, and in company with saints, martyrs, prophets and just men and women, be worthy to partake also of Thy blessing, through the love and power of Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.


Then I may say something along these lines:

Dear Friends, in remembrance of our Saviour's love for all mankind, shown at Calvary, we have tried to follow Him in our hearts and minds along the road of His physical and spiritual agony to the Cross, and the surrendering of His earthly life for the help of mankind.

What is the lesson we learn from this? Is it not that in degree we shall likewise be willing to suffer for the sake of those we love? Also to ever remember that our duty to those who are near and dear to us is to try and influence them to face their troubles with calmness, and to hold fast to faith in spite of all that would assail.

As we go back over the past in the Sacred Record we read for our learning of the many noble souls who suffered in order to raise up humanity from the materialism and evil of the world in the Name of God Almighty. And because these souls lived and worked for God, we can draw inspiration from them in His Name, and in the hour of test and trial show something of endurance. In the degree that this is possible, so will be our joy in the Life to come, where service with perfect freedom shall be the portion of such.

May the strength be given so that our courage may never fail, and may the Holy Spirit guide us ever into the way of spiritual peace.

Now unto Him Who loved us and gave Himself for us, be praise and worship and glory, with the Father, for ever. Amen.


This may or may not be the format - it often changes on the day - the true offering to God comes from within and not without. However, in order for different people to come together in a quiet and peaceful manner which lays aside the material world and its thinking for a while, there must be some type of structure in place to hold a harmonious gathering.

Peace.
"A few drops of blood renew the whole world, and become for all men that which rennet is for milk, uniting and drawing us into one". "Christ is like leaven for the entire mass, and having made that which was damned one with himself, frees the whole from damnation".

Gregory of Nazianzu

Offline ed

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Re: So You Don't Want To Go To Church Anymore?
« Reply #55 on: April 15, 2014, 10:21:31 PM »
Things are happening!


Offline WhiteWings

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Re: So You Don't Want To Go To Church Anymore?
« Reply #56 on: April 16, 2014, 04:09:37 AM »
:cloud9: Easy. Worship is also praise and prayer. I don't have to agree with a thing they say to worship God with them. I just don't listen to their fables.  :banana:
I get that  but it takes out the  corporate for me.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Cardinal

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Re: So You Don't Want To Go To Church Anymore?
« Reply #57 on: April 16, 2014, 02:08:42 PM »
 :cloud9: @ lastpost. Enjoyed your post, but regarding the structure needed, I do see what your saying, but if I could but add the rest of this as I see it.........IMO.........The LORD IS the structure, the LORD'S will as revealed by His Spirit in the assembly, even if it's two in a grocery store, IS His ORDER. WE are the temple of the living God, and wherever WE ARE, THERE IS THE BODY/ASSEMBLY.

Whenever two or more of you are gathered in My name/nature, there I AM in the midst of you. Where the Shepherd-King is, THERE SHOULD BE FEEDING AND PETITIONS BEING ANSWERED, going on from the Head. The sin of the Nicolaitans which He said He hates, was separating the clergy from the laity.

The reason He hates it, is because it's taught His sheep to be fed of men who stood up between Him and His bride, and there cannot be 2 men in the bed, and soon there won't be! PTL, one WILL be taken, but it's not the one they imagine to themselves! Those that have condemned homosexuals from the pulpit as the head, will find that their very sin is what made the body open to the homosexual spirit in the first place. The body can only do what it sees it's head do.

Seeing the true body enables Him to be free to go when and where HE chooses, IN US, to do His will, amongst the body, which is found EVERYWHERE. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline lastpost

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Re: So You Don't Want To Go To Church Anymore?
« Reply #58 on: April 16, 2014, 03:50:35 PM »
Dear Cardinal, it is nice to hear from you.

Certainly, we have no priests or laity (although someone has to service the building and that is myself). People come because they want to commune together in the Name of Jesus Christ in their way – others can do it in their own preferred way and they do.

As you say, where two or three are gathered together in His Name there He is amongst them – He is interested in the heart not the letter. Jesus is their right and the priests have turned the people away and denied them entrance to Him by their letter: "No, you do not worship God because the letter says…", "Christ does not feel your love because you do not believe what we say you must believe..."

It is time for ordinary people to know the Gift of Christ is free from all that, then they will see what a tangle others have got themselves in – it is between Him and them. It is that simple, as are all things of Christ.

In His Love and Peace.
"A few drops of blood renew the whole world, and become for all men that which rennet is for milk, uniting and drawing us into one". "Christ is like leaven for the entire mass, and having made that which was damned one with himself, frees the whole from damnation".

Gregory of Nazianzu

Offline Seth

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Re: So You Don't Want To Go To Church Anymore?
« Reply #59 on: April 16, 2014, 05:27:42 PM »
I think the "gather together" scripture does not depend on physical proximity.

1 Corinthians 5
3For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. 4In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus,


All the elect are gathered together in spirit whether or not they are scattered abroad, and Christ is among them.

Offline lastpost

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Re: So You Don't Want To Go To Church Anymore?
« Reply #60 on: April 16, 2014, 06:58:26 PM »
Yes Seth, thank you, indeed. Well, I firmly believe that I have a spirit and know people who also have this belief, in fact they would say that they "know" that they have a spirit.

As for Christ's Spirit - I believe that He is with us all the time, and "special" Presence, as it were, is given when appropriate ("when two or three...").
"A few drops of blood renew the whole world, and become for all men that which rennet is for milk, uniting and drawing us into one". "Christ is like leaven for the entire mass, and having made that which was damned one with himself, frees the whole from damnation".

Gregory of Nazianzu

Offline lastpost

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Re: So You Don't Want To Go To Church Anymore?
« Reply #61 on: April 16, 2014, 07:27:03 PM »
In fact - and I do not want to make it sound trite - I could discuss Christ endlessly because He keeps "returning" and lifting me up, as it were.
"A few drops of blood renew the whole world, and become for all men that which rennet is for milk, uniting and drawing us into one". "Christ is like leaven for the entire mass, and having made that which was damned one with himself, frees the whole from damnation".

Gregory of Nazianzu

Offline sheila

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Re: So You Don't Want To Go To Church Anymore?
« Reply #62 on: April 16, 2014, 08:38:23 PM »
 RE; preists have turned the people away and denied entance into Him because of their letter.   I hear that !

Offline dajomaco

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Re: So You Don't Want To Go To Church Anymore?
« Reply #63 on: April 16, 2014, 09:40:47 PM »
A man who is physically uncircumcised, but who fulfills the law, will judge you who are a lawbreaker in spite of having the letter of the law and circumcision.

On the contrary, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart—by the Spirit, not the letter. That man's praise is not from men but from God.

But now we have been released from the law, since we have died to what held us, so that we may serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old letter of the law.

You yourselves are our letter, written on our hearts, recognized and read by everyone.

It is clear that you are Christ's letter, produced by us, not written with ink but with the Spirit of the living God—not on stone tablets but on tablets that are hearts of flesh.

He has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter, but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit produces life.

Offline lastpost

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Re: So You Don't Want To Go To Church Anymore?
« Reply #64 on: April 16, 2014, 11:23:03 PM »
The festivals of Christendom...

I genuinely respect everybody's preferred method of gathering/spiritual ecclesia even if it is not mine. It is between them and God after all. Personally, I can worship with others in their own buildings but generally do not. I find Catholic services too dogmatic for me so I avoid them. Methodist type services are better, I generally feel out of place. Yesterday in the hospital chapel I sent my love to Christ with some hymn singing - that was very good - the hospital chaplains are of a generous nature.

My own understanding is that Christendom has been guided since the Master Jesus Christ, our Lord, lived on Earth in human form. This guidance has been by God, yes, and also by His angels filled with His Holy Spirit who attempt to influence man through his material outlook.

Certainly, the course taken by the "Church" has been hideous, especially during the Dark Ages when men preferred evil, but it would have been worse without the influence of the Holy Spirit. I believe that many of the celebrations of Christendom were prompted by the Divine Unseen.

I want to pass on, if I may, some thoughts that came my way, meaning I did not originate the underlying message.

The whole course of the life of Jesus Christ is as a Pattern and festivals appear appropriately. This Pattern signifies the progressive development of the life begun on Earth and completed in heaven (using the term as it is generally understood). The life is born of self-denial and culminates in spiritual ascension.

The Christ Life can be viewed as a narrative; humanity may read the story of the progress of His Spirit from His Incarnation as a human being (Spirit to stable) to the release of His Spirit (Resurrection, Pentecost, ascension). Thirty years and more of disciplined preparation readied the Christ for His Mission. Three years and more in all were needed to deliver as much of His Mission as man could bear.

According to my understanding, the development of a human is to progress through the way marked by the festivals of the Christendom, from being born as a human being of flesh which constitutes a festival of self-denial, to the festival of the completed life.

The man is born into self-denial; he progresses through self-sacrifice; he develops through recurring struggles with enemies found in the round of daily life, enemies found in himself, and external enemies - which must be conquered.

After this course the external dies, and the inner man, the spirit, rises from its sepulchre of stone on its Easter Morning. From here it is baptised by the outpouring of Spirit, even as of Pentecost; then the spirit ascends to the place Christ has prepared for it.

I believe that this is the progress of the spirit - it has been regenerated, as it were, after its own crucifixion and resurrection. The new man has risen from his grave because the old man has died. The old man along with his lustful nature is crucified while the new man arises to partake in a spiritual and holy life.

The spirit is born again, regenerated - and that is the crowning moment of bodily life for those who have followed the Master Christ -it is the operation of the crucifixion of self, a daily death indeed.

There can be neither stagnation nor staleness because this is the life of spiritual development based upon the Christ Pattern. The disciple is called out by the Master: a stemming of the sensual and base desires so that there is place for the spiritual and Divine, and a daily absorption of knowledge. It is a life of spiritual progress.

I understand that grace and knowledge are gifts from God yet coupled to this fact is that Christ presented to humanity the purest type of life for its imitation, and the Christ Pattern engenders the growth in knowledge and indeed growth in the grace of the Christ.

The material is brushed aside so that the spiritual can be developed; it is a purging as by fire and the fire is of a consuming endeavour and enthusiastic diligence; it is the enduring of the grappling with the lesser self and all that the lesser self includes; and the signposts along the way are of a perpetually increasing embrace of the Truth which is Divine. I am led to believe that those who can welcome fiery trials in His Name are infinitely blessed.

This is a condensed version of the spiritual overlay of festivals based around the Christ birth, life, death, resurrection and ascension. This could be presented in a much more detailed manner as far as festivals of Christendom is concerned but this is simply to make an offering to ponder if desired, which I believe is more than significant.

In His Love and Peace.
"A few drops of blood renew the whole world, and become for all men that which rennet is for milk, uniting and drawing us into one". "Christ is like leaven for the entire mass, and having made that which was damned one with himself, frees the whole from damnation".

Gregory of Nazianzu

Offline Seth

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Re: So You Don't Want To Go To Church Anymore?
« Reply #65 on: April 17, 2014, 01:55:10 AM »
I think the fact that we are assembling on Tentmaker is proof that physical proximity does not limit "assembling." I think it's necessary for believers to assemble, physically close, if possible. But, I don't believe that if someone is alone, means that Christ is not present within them. I think Matt 18:20 is speaking to the collective nature of his Body, to people who had never heard of the "body of Christ" yet. I don't take that scripture as to mean that not being part of a local church means that you are cut off from Christ (as I am sure we agree). After all, the Bible also says:

2 Cor 6:14
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?


What happens when all you have around you are unbelievers? What happened before the Internet. I think this is a situation like eating meat sacrificed to idols. Each person must decide for themselves what it means to be assembled and what it also means to "be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers."

Offline sheila

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Re: So You Don't Want To Go To Church Anymore?
« Reply #66 on: April 17, 2014, 06:36:55 AM »
 Anna,  I think the two or three  has to do with 'every matter established at the mouth of two or three wittnesses.... :HeartThrob:.."

   

Offline eaglesway

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Re: So You Don't Want To Go To Church Anymore?
« Reply #67 on: April 17, 2014, 09:48:55 PM »
Defining who and what is a believer is kinda critical to this discussion in my opinion. Were the Pharisees believers? The Levites? Jesus defined the Samaritan as a believer and the Pharisee and the Levite as not "acceptable". The acceptable sacrifice is the HEART OF CHRIST, not just the confession of Christ. Many confess Christ. Does Jesus define them as believers? Perhaps not- "Depart from you lawless ones into the fire prepared for the devil and his angels, I never knew you, for I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was hungry and you gave me no food I was naked and you did not clothe me."

Jesus said, "They will persecute you and cast you from their synagogues and say all manner of evil concernng you."

Was He really just talking about Jewish synagogues?

I don't think so. If you proclaim the true gospel pf Jesus Christ you will rarely have opportunity to gather with more than two or three "believers". You will be cast out of the gatherings of the contemporary Pharisees and Levites.

Our religious definitions of scriptural principles have often been induced by over a thousand years of orthodox indoctrination.

If I cannot speak the truth am I in the midst of "believers"? Religionists abound in the name of Jesus Christ and only God knows who among them are truly believers- not that speaking the truth necessarily makes one a "believer" either, because Paul says if I have all knowledge so as to understand every mystery and have not love I am nothing.

I believe we are assembling, in a manner, on Tentmaker. The living water flows wherever it can find a channel through which to pass. My personal belief is that if we are so afraid to stir dissension that we cannot "speak the truth in love" about what we believe- WE are the ones being deceived.

Of course, All is led by the Spirit, each one in his/her particular situation and calling and purpose- short term or long term......but I loath religious definitions of spiritual realities because they become whips and cords to bind saints in a land "where no water is".

"Come out of her and be a clean and separate people".... "Let us suffer with Him outside the camp, sharing His reproach".....

These things can be complex, but when it comes to the true gospel of Jesus, when I am among the so-called or the called, I would rather err on the side of boldness, because WHAT DOES MY SILENCE ACCOMPLISH?

How shall they hear unless someone proclaim? And how shall they understand, unless clear notes are sounded upon the trumpet?

We are the gatherers, who carry about this precious treasure in earthen vessels, the Savior of All and His gospel of the kingdom of God. Peace.
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.com

Offline Seth

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Re: So You Don't Want To Go To Church Anymore?
« Reply #68 on: April 17, 2014, 09:52:23 PM »
 :iagree:  :HeartThrob:

Offline eaglesway

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Re: So You Don't Want To Go To Church Anymore?
« Reply #69 on: April 18, 2014, 04:50:28 AM »
That's very helpful, thank you both. I will keep praying and seeking God's will on the matter. Ultimately I believe he is calling me out of the church. I just need to take a step out in faith and trust him.   :Peace2:

I am not saying that most of us don't already understand this but, imo,  we cannot be called out of the church- it is His body, the ecclesia. We can be in man's imitation of the church and called to be there as salt and water, but "not one stone will be left standing upon another" of that edifice. We can be called outside the "camp"- which I consider to be the ground in between that which is living and moving forward and that which is dead or dying- as a witness that God is no longer dwelling in it in His glory, which is the presence of the Spirit working in love through the "living stones" of the habitation of God in the spirit", which is fitly joined together upon the chief cornerstone, Jesus, always standing tall in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, constructed through the generations of this age and the last- the New Jerusalem coming down(being revealed) out of the heavenlies clothed in white linen, the righteous acts of the saints(called out ones). The ecclesia of God, the gathered together called out ones is the real church, His body, the fulness of Him who fills all in all- and He is its head(Eph 1) .

Discerning the difference between the living temple/body and the synagogues that have died(strengthen that which is living but is about to die....Rev) is something God is teaching in every generation, and that we will all see in the first resurrection(again, this is my opinion:o).
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.com

Offline shawn

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Re: So You Don't Want To Go To Church Anymore?
« Reply #70 on: April 18, 2014, 10:42:35 PM »
Defining who and what is a believer is kinda critical to this discussion in my opinion. Were the Pharisees believers? The Levites? Jesus defined the Samaritan as a believer and the Pharisee and the Levite as not "acceptable". The acceptable sacrifice is the HEART OF CHRIST, not just the confession of Christ. Many confess Christ. Does Jesus define them as believers? Perhaps not- "Depart from you lawless ones into the fire prepared for the devil and his angels, I never knew you, for I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was hungry and you gave me no food I was naked and you did not clothe me."

Jesus said, "They will persecute you and cast you from their synagogues and say all manner of evil concernng you."

Was He really just talking about Jewish synagogues?

I don't think so. If you proclaim the true gospel pf Jesus Christ you will rarely have opportunity to gather with more than two or three "believers". You will be cast out of the gatherings of the contemporary Pharisees and Levites.

Our religious definitions of scriptural principles have often been induced by over a thousand years of orthodox indoctrination.

If I cannot speak the truth am I in the midst of "believers"? Religionists abound in the name of Jesus Christ and only God knows who among them are truly believers- not that speaking the truth necessarily makes one a "believer" either, because Paul says if I have all knowledge so as to understand every mystery and have not love I am nothing.

I believe we are assembling, in a manner, on Tentmaker. The living water flows wherever it can find a channel through which to pass. My personal belief is that if we are so afraid to stir dissension that we cannot "speak the truth in love" about what we believe- WE are the ones being deceived.

Of course, All is led by the Spirit, each one in his/her particular situation and calling and purpose- short term or long term......but I loath religious definitions of spiritual realities because they become whips and cords to bind saints in a land "where no water is".

"Come out of her and be a clean and separate people".... "Let us suffer with Him outside the camp, sharing His reproach".....

These things can be complex, but when it comes to the true gospel of Jesus, when I am among the so-called or the called, I would rather err on the side of boldness, because WHAT DOES MY SILENCE ACCOMPLISH?

How shall they hear unless someone proclaim? And how shall they understand, unless clear notes are sounded upon the trumpet?

We are the gatherers, who carry about this precious treasure in earthen vessels, the Savior of All and His gospel of the kingdom of God. Peace.

I hear you.  I think this is a very individual thing, done in individual seasons.  Personally, I speak to some and not others.  I must ask myself continually why I want to talk to someone about my beliefs.  I know many here are well past this kind of immaturity, but I have to fight my ego.  I feel like I have been given something really special, and it's easy for it to go to my head.  It's easy for me to get caught up in being right rather than loving another human being.  In reality I am much more concerned with showing another human being understanding and kindness and in that I am sharing the true gospel of Christ.  That is so much bigger than doctrine, ideas, studies, or insights I may have.  Every time we love another human being we share the true gospel.  Whether or not I share what I believe about hell, UR, or various other subjects is so secondary to that.  There are some ready to hear...and to those I speak...those who are not...and to those I don't.  I try to be sensitive to open doors.

Offline Seth

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Re: So You Don't Want To Go To Church Anymore?
« Reply #71 on: April 18, 2014, 10:59:15 PM »
In my own opinion, if simply treating people with kindness was the same as sharing the Gospel, I think about why Christ compares the Gospel to a sword which divides family member from family member, and does not bring peace. Are Bhuddists sharing the Gospel by being kind? I am not meaning to be divisive or argumentative, but I think the Bible says that doctrine cannot be separated from the Gospel.

Galatians 1
6I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.



Offline joeteekay

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Re: So You Don't Want To Go To Church Anymore?
« Reply #72 on: April 19, 2014, 12:38:35 AM »
 Hey Seth :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: Today at 03:38:07 AM by joeteekay »
Joe from Ottawa

Offline eaglesway

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Re: So You Don't Want To Go To Church Anymore?
« Reply #73 on: April 19, 2014, 02:19:22 AM »
Shawn, I agree with you, as far as being sensitive is concerned. Led by the Spirit. I do think we ought to be ready to give an answer for what we believe, not club everybody over the head by what we believe. I do think boldness is important tho, and if I am unsure, I want to trust God and go with it :o)

Sometimes actions speak louder than words, and Christ is seen more easily than He is heard, in many instances. As I said before, it is complex and highly individual, but I always encourage those who understand who Christ really is and what God is really doing to share, because people who reject our testimony will often begin seeing it in the scriptures at a later point because their consciousness has been opened to what the word says after hearing the trumpet- even when they first thought the trumpet was a deception. Then they will be much more likely to love those they formerly railed upon, at least, that is what the victorious gospel produced in me. :o)
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.com

Offline dajomaco

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Re: So You Don't Want To Go To Church Anymore?
« Reply #74 on: April 19, 2014, 09:32:06 PM »
IMO
Being kind and Loving without the message of the true Gospel.
Is an example of working for your God.

Being kind and Loving with the message of the true Gospel.
Is an example of resting in your God.