Author Topic: ET is NOT Gospel, it's the worst news possible with a silver lining  (Read 3830 times)

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jimbo99

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The average ET "gospel" I've noticed generally goes something like this:

"This is probably news to you, but every human being who ever lived is by default destined to be brutally tortured for ETERNITY after they die.  We offend God by our mere existence and every one of us, from Adolf Hitler to Martin Luther King, deserves to be tortured forever because of behaviors/actions that are impossible for us to completely avoid (aka sins).  Ultimately, at least 85% of humanity will meet this fate that they so richly deserve, BUT the good news is, Jesus provided a way to avoid this horrific punishment if we accept/follow him in just the right way."

That's like saying "The Titanic is sinking but the good news is, there's one lifeboat left".  Again, it's nothing but extremely bad news with a silver lining.

Just my random thought of the day.

Offline Lefein

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Re: ET is NOT Gospel, it's the worst news possible with a silver lining
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2011, 08:21:41 AM »
It almost sounds like a get rich quick scheme when you put it that way...

"TIME IS RUNNING SHORT! SO ACT NOW!"  :Sparkletooth:
CLV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred, it rouses up quarrels, Yet love covers over all transgressions.
KJV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.

Offline Nathan

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Re: ET is NOT Gospel, it's the worst news possible with a silver lining
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2011, 09:23:46 AM »
I LOVE your titanic anology there . . .
TRUTH = tatanic is sinking
GOSPEL = one life boat availible

Praise Jesus 50 people out of 8,000 will be saved!  Glory Hallelujah!!

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: ET is NOT Gospel, it's the worst news possible with a silver lining
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2011, 10:16:51 AM »
Don't worry Jimbo. We all sink into Atlantis  :laughing7:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Michelle

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Re: ET is NOT Gospel, it's the worst news possible with a silver lining
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2011, 11:09:41 AM »
The average ET "gospel" I've noticed generally goes something like this:

"This is probably news to you, but every human being who ever lived is by default destined to be brutally tortured for ETERNITY after they die.  We offend God by our mere existence and every one of us, from Adolf Hitler to Martin Luther King, deserves to be tortured forever because of behaviors/actions that are impossible for us to completely avoid (aka sins).  Ultimately, at least 85% of humanity will meet this fate that they so richly deserve, BUT the good news is, Jesus provided a way to avoid this horrific punishment if we accept/follow him in just the right way."

That's like saying "The Titanic is sinking but the good news is, there's one lifeboat left".  Again, it's nothing but extremely bad news with a silver lining.

Just my random thought of the day.

Make it 99%. I'm not kidding. They think 99% of mankind will be tortured forever. This is the article that drove me this close to suicide back when I was a Fundy. Please, don't let that article affect you:

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/billions_of_people_going_to_hell.htm

Those Damnationists just don't get it... http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThreateningsExplained.html#6

Those billions of people... I fell down on my knees, sobbing and I told God to send me to endless torture in their place, that I would take their place to see them at peace and happy... I just can't stand the idea of people suffering horribly and I still can't stand it... After that, I lost my mind. If billions of people were really being tortured forever, then what was the point of preaching the Gospel and trying to save a few souls who didn't want to hear about a cosmic tyran? Could I blame those people for being atheists? That article was the coup the grace that nearly finished me off. With billions of souls being tortured forever and total failure to get even one soul saved, I came to the conclusion that life wasn't even worth living. As I was on my way to kill myself, Jesus stopped me and told me through the Holy Spirit to research and study everything the church and man told me not to and find out the real meaning behind it all. Jesus led me to Tenmaker and Gary's videos. Jesus led me to UR...

By the way WhiteWings, you resume very well the ET mentality. That's exactly what they say. They tell people that we offend God by our mere existence. They even go as far as to say that when a baby is born, God immediately hate him and only see the filth and dross of sin in Him. I even heard a Damnationist call babies sinners in diapers on their way to hell. If they see a child running in a church or being a little agitated, they say he's a sinner or his way to hell. According to them, children should shut up and never move a muscle. One must be so very crook-minded to say that God hate a newborn baby just for being born with a sin nature he didn't even ask for...
« Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 11:28:40 AM by Michelle »

Offline Miriam

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Re: ET is NOT Gospel, it's the worst news possible with a silver lining
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2011, 11:31:52 AM »
I LOVE your titanic anology there . . .
TRUTH = tatanic is sinking
GOSPEL = one life boat availible

Praise Jesus 50 people out of 8,000 will be saved!  Glory Hallelujah!!
To be fair to ET believers, they would say there are enough lifeboats to go round. It's just that the majority of people choose not to get into them.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: ET is NOT Gospel, it's the worst news possible with a silver lining
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2011, 11:46:50 AM »
Honor your parents Michelle. Babies cry and wake up their parents. That's an act of rebellion. Yep, sin starts at birth.
Many criminals are just that; criminals that don't care. They don't care how many get killed at a bank robbery if they get their money.
But there is another breed of criminals that perhaps aren't even criminal. They think they are doing those things for an higher cause. They are so far gone they are sick.
The same thing applies to many ETs I think. They are not realy selfish or sadistic. They are so trapped in their own reasoning they really don't see anything bad in what they believe.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Miriam

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Re: ET is NOT Gospel, it's the worst news possible with a silver lining
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2011, 11:50:21 AM »
Babies cry and wake up their parents. That's an act of rebellion. Yep, sin starts at birth.
You're not being serious, are you?  :mshock: Babies cry because they're hungry or have some other problem. It's their only way of communicating.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: ET is NOT Gospel, it's the worst news possible with a silver lining
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2011, 11:51:50 AM »
I LOVE your titanic anology there . . .
TRUTH = tatanic is sinking
GOSPEL = one life boat availible

Praise Jesus 50 people out of 8,000 will be saved!  Glory Hallelujah!!
To be fair to ET believers, they would say there are enough lifeboats to go round. It's just that the majority of people choose not to get into them.
There are different types of ETs.
That are the Arminian ETs Michelle Miriam. EDIT
The Calvinist ETs believe there are only a few lifeboats. And even those liveboats aren't free to choose. They got names on them.
People are doomed at conception and there is nothing they can do about it.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 04:09:58 PM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: ET is NOT Gospel, it's the worst news possible with a silver lining
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2011, 12:04:57 PM »
Babies cry and wake up their parents. That's an act of rebellion. Yep, sin starts at birth.
You're not being serious, are you?  :mshock: Babies cry because they're hungry or have some other problem. It's their only way of communicating.
It's not my view but that of people who try to prove we are born in a sinful state; and because of that even babies belong in hell if they die before they can chose Jesus.
It's the same sort of people who say those babies are blessed for going to hell at a very young age. God knew they would become big sinners. But because they didn't sin much yet they only spend eternity in an oven instead of flames. That's mercy of God.

http://www.mgr.org/TheoBlackmail.html
http://gospelthemes.com/hell.htm

Contrast Jesus' use of hell with traditional preaching on the subject. For example, we quote a Rev. J. Furniss, who said:

See on the middle of that red-hot floor stands a girl: she looks about sixteen years old. Her feet are bare. Listen; she speaks. "I have been standing on this red-hot floor for years! Look at my burnt and bleeding feet! Let me go off this burning floor for one moment!" The fifth dungeon is the red-hot oven. The little child is in the red-hot oven. Hear how it screams to come out; see how it turns and twists itself about in the fire. It beats its head against the roof of the oven. It stamps its little feet on the floor. God was very good to this little child. Very likely God saw it would get worse and worse, and would never repent, and so it would have to be punished more severely in hell. So God in His mercy called it out of the world in early childhood. (J. Furniss, The Sight of Hell [London and Dublin: Duffy], cited by Edward William Fudge, The Fire That Consumes [Houston: Providential Press, 1982], p. 416.)
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Michelle

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Re: ET is NOT Gospel, it's the worst news possible with a silver lining
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2011, 03:27:46 PM »
I LOVE your titanic anology there . . .
TRUTH = tatanic is sinking
GOSPEL = one life boat availible

Praise Jesus 50 people out of 8,000 will be saved!  Glory Hallelujah!!
To be fair to ET believers, they would say there are enough lifeboats to go round. It's just that the majority of people choose not to get into them.

Ugh! You have no idea how sick I am of hearing that. They should put through their skull that God always get what He wants and always complete the work He started, whether some pitiful mortals believe it or not...

Offline Michelle

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Re: ET is NOT Gospel, it's the worst news possible with a silver lining
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2011, 03:39:34 PM »
Honor your parents Michelle. Babies cry and wake up their parents. That's an act of rebellion. Yep, sin starts at birth.
Many criminals are just that; criminals that don't care. They don't care how many get killed at a bank robbery if they get their money.
But there is another breed of criminals that perhaps aren't even criminal. They think they are doing those things for an higher cause. They are so far gone they are sick.
The same thing applies to many ETs I think. They are not realy selfish or sadistic. They are so trapped in their own reasoning they really don't see anything bad in what they believe.

If Damnationists think that a baby crying, which is a normal and natural thing, is committing sin and rebellion, then they should seek professional help... Babies cannot tell good from evil and are not morally accountable, so they are without sin until they grow up and learn the difference between the two, that's when they are morally accountable. A baby cannot even think, talk or understand anything. How would a baby sin? How would a baby be a sinner deserving of hell? That's where the Calvinists are not very bright... Also, Damnationists can be very sadistic, but when you point that out, they tell you that you're on your way to hell. Typical...
« Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 04:00:31 PM by Michelle »

Offline Michelle

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Re: ET is NOT Gospel, it's the worst news possible with a silver lining
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2011, 03:42:54 PM »
Babies cry and wake up their parents. That's an act of rebellion. Yep, sin starts at birth.
You're not being serious, are you?  :mshock: Babies cry because they're hungry or have some other problem. It's their only way of communicating.

That's the Damnationist and Calvininist mentality... Sick isn't? And ignorant too... I don't think WhiteWings was voicing his own opinion, Miriam...
« Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 04:01:48 PM by Michelle »

Offline Michelle

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Re: ET is NOT Gospel, it's the worst news possible with a silver lining
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2011, 03:48:05 PM »
I LOVE your titanic anology there . . .
TRUTH = tatanic is sinking
GOSPEL = one life boat availible

Praise Jesus 50 people out of 8,000 will be saved!  Glory Hallelujah!!
To be fair to ET believers, they would say there are enough lifeboats to go round. It's just that the majority of people choose not to get into them.
There are different types of ETs.
That are the Arminian ETs Michelle.
The Calvinist ETs believe there are only a few lifeboats. And even those liveboats aren't free to choose. They got names on them.
People are doomed at conception and there is nothing they can do about it.

Arminians are not any better. They rely on so-called free will and think those who have been too damaged to make the right choice will roast in hell forever. As for Calvinists, they are totally sick. They even go as far as to say that infants and mentally retarded people all are on their way too hell, except a handful who were lucky enough to be predestined to salvation. Even back when I was a Fundy, I never believe that infants and mentally ill people would burn in hell forever for not being aware enough to commit to Jesus and I challenged anyone who was sick enough to believe that...

Offline Michelle

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Re: ET is NOT Gospel, it's the worst news possible with a silver lining
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2011, 03:50:10 PM »
I LOVE your titanic anology there . . .
TRUTH = tatanic is sinking
GOSPEL = one life boat availible

Praise Jesus 50 people out of 8,000 will be saved!  Glory Hallelujah!!
To be fair to ET believers, they would say there are enough lifeboats to go round. It's just that the majority of people choose not to get into them.
There are different types of ETs.
That are the Arminian ETs Michelle.
The Calvinist ETs believe there are only a few lifeboats. And even those liveboats aren't free to choose. They got names on them.
People are doomed at conception and there is nothing they can do about it.

By the way, in case you didn't notice, you quoted from Nathan, not me. As I have said, Damnationists believe that no less than 99% of mankind will burn in hell forever... 99%...

Offline Michelle

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Re: ET is NOT Gospel, it's the worst news possible with a silver lining
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2011, 03:56:43 PM »
Babies cry and wake up their parents. That's an act of rebellion. Yep, sin starts at birth.
You're not being serious, are you?  :mshock: Babies cry because they're hungry or have some other problem. It's their only way of communicating.
It's not my view but that of people who try to prove we are born in a sinful state; and because of that even babies belong in hell if they die before they can chose Jesus.
It's the same sort of people who say those babies are blessed for going to hell at a very young age. God knew they would become big sinners. But because they didn't sin much yet they only spend eternity in an oven instead of flames. That's mercy of God.

http://www.mgr.org/TheoBlackmail.html
http://gospelthemes.com/hell.htm

Contrast Jesus' use of hell with traditional preaching on the subject. For example, we quote a Rev. J. Furniss, who said:

See on the middle of that red-hot floor stands a girl: she looks about sixteen years old. Her feet are bare. Listen; she speaks. "I have been standing on this red-hot floor for years! Look at my burnt and bleeding feet! Let me go off this burning floor for one moment!" The fifth dungeon is the red-hot oven. The little child is in the red-hot oven. Hear how it screams to come out; see how it turns and twists itself about in the fire. It beats its head against the roof of the oven. It stamps its little feet on the floor. God was very good to this little child. Very likely God saw it would get worse and worse, and would never repent, and so it would have to be punished more severely in hell. So God in His mercy called it out of the world in early childhood. (J. Furniss, The Sight of Hell [London and Dublin: Duffy], cited by Edward William Fudge, The Fire That Consumes [Houston: Providential Press, 1982], p. 416.)


Those people make me feel so sick to my stomach, I could just throw up. Even when I was a Fundy, I didn't extend hell to infants and mentally ill people. This is just so sick. I sometimes think about the damage I've caused to many people in my ignorance and it sickens me. Hopefully, ET will soon leave the Bible forever. Gary wrote an article about that. He said that less and less translators put the word hell and everlasting in their Bibles. He also made a video about toxic Bibles and Bibles without those words. Compare the piles of books. Only a handful of them still have the words hell and everlasting in them...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: ET is NOT Gospel, it's the worst news possible with a silver lining
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2011, 04:06:36 PM »
If Damnationists think that a baby crying, which is a normal and natural thing, is committing sin and rebellion, then they should seek professional help..
Those people are just trapped in a little box. It was not a quote from some internmet forum but from a (respected?) church leader/scholar.


This is exactly, imo, what the Rabbinic "light and heavy teaching" is about. The pluck out your eye verse Jesus used is one example of that. In it's most basic form it means stop sinning/be wrong asap when the sin/problem isn't big/heavy. I think it applies to this situation.
Those people make a "light mistake" when they assume everyone sins from the start. That sounds Scriptual until people start asking about babies.
a] How do babies sin? They rebel against their parents.  --> this nonense is a heavier sin.
b] Babies don't believe in anything and because of that they end up in hel like all unbelievers. -> heavier sin based on the light sin.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: ET is NOT Gospel, it's the worst news possible with a silver lining
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2011, 04:19:27 PM »
Arminians are not any better.
I think they are. The Calvinist God gives only 5% of humanity a chance. The Arminian God gives 100% of humanity a chance. Ok both believe only 5% eventually make it to heaven but at least Arminians give people a chance.

Quote
Even back when I was a Fundy, I never believe that infants and mentally ill people would burn in hell forever for not being aware enough to commit to Jesus
Deep down many believed that. That's why the teaching was changed over time.
At first it was black and white. No belief in Jesus means hell. No excuses. No exception.
Later they got a little milder by adding the age of accountabilty. Or tried to get God of the hook by explaining that babies in hell are an act of mercy.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: ET is NOT Gospel, it's the worst news possible with a silver lining
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2011, 04:33:43 PM »
Those people make me feel so sick to my stomach, I could just throw up. Even when I was a Fundy, I didn't extend hell to infants and mentally ill people.
Just follow your  :HeartThrob: Michelle and you will understand UR.
That's your Bible  :winkgrin:

YLT2Cor 3
2 our letter ye are, having been written in our  :HeartThrob:, known and read by all men,
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Truthseeker

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Re: ET is NOT Gospel, it's the worst news possible with a silver lining
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2011, 05:22:34 PM »
The average ET "gospel" I've noticed generally goes something like this:

"This is probably news to you, but every human being who ever lived is by default destined to be brutally tortured for ETERNITY after they die.  We offend God by our mere existence and every one of us, from Adolf Hitler to Martin Luther King, deserves to be tortured forever because of behaviors/actions that are impossible for us to completely avoid (aka sins).  Ultimately, at least 85% of humanity will meet this fate that they so richly deserve, BUT the good news is, Jesus provided a way to avoid this horrific punishment if we accept/follow him in just the right way."

That's like saying "The Titanic is sinking but the good news is, there's one lifeboat left".  Again, it's nothing but extremely bad news with a silver lining.

Just my random thought of the day.

Without having the common courtesy to ask whether or not we wanted to be placed in this predicament in the first place, how highly annoying of him to do so.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 06:29:24 PM by Truthseeker »

Offline CHB

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Re: ET is NOT Gospel, it's the worst news possible with a silver lining
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2011, 08:39:50 PM »
According to Eby we agreed to come down here and experience all of this mess. I would say "are we nuts or what"!!!!  Eby says we just "don't remember being with God and agreeing to all of this".

CHB

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: ET is NOT Gospel, it's the worst news possible with a silver lining
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2011, 08:52:26 PM »
He's not the only one who claims that.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Miriam

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Re: ET is NOT Gospel, it's the worst news possible with a silver lining
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2011, 09:00:47 PM »
According to Eby we agreed to come down here and experience all of this mess. I would say "are we nuts or what"!!!!  Eby says we just "don't remember being with God and agreeing to all of this".
CHB
Is someone able to provide a link to that material, please?

Offline CHB

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Re: ET is NOT Gospel, it's the worst news possible with a silver lining
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2011, 12:35:24 AM »
I think it is called "The Seed in Every Man".

http://www.sigler.org/sirius8/seed.htm

CHB

Offline Miriam

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Re: ET is NOT Gospel, it's the worst news possible with a silver lining
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2011, 08:06:01 PM »
I LOVE your titanic anology there . . .
TRUTH = tatanic is sinking
GOSPEL = one life boat availible

Praise Jesus 50 people out of 8,000 will be saved!  Glory Hallelujah!!
To be fair to ET believers, they would say there are enough lifeboats to go round. It's just that the majority of people choose not to get into them.
There are different types of ETs.
That are the Arminian ETs Michelle Miriam. EDIT
The Calvinist ETs believe there are only a few lifeboats. And even those liveboats aren't free to choose. They got names on them.
People are doomed at conception and there is nothing they can do about it.
I haven't come across many Calvinist ETs then; perhaps that's fortunate.  :winkgrin:

Thanks for the link, CHB. Some more reading to keep me out of mischief.  :bigGrin: