Question for anyone....

[WhiteWings]

As said I completly ignored everything after first fruits. So in that view I indeed missed that feast.
Can you place the 3 feast in the order on the calendar?
Perhaps it seems obvious but I have a gift complicating simple things.
For example the Jewish new year is in their 7th month.
Nisan/Abib (the month of Passover/First Fruits) is their first month.
Some even say it wasn't introduced until 138AD. The Jewish months are not Jewish month. They are all Babylonian. Nisan is Babylonian for the real Jewish name Abib
Religious year. Argicultual year. Civil year. They are out of sync. That's one of the reasons there is so much debate on the Sabbath cycle. (It matter because His ministru was probaly in such a year)
I don't think Father is very impressed with the civil/secular calendar.
But religious and argicultural seem to be two of a kind...
 
I think nobody disagrees Jesus died on/near passover.
Jesus was resurrected on First Fruits. That's both of argicultural (all the farming parables) and religious (FF are presented to Father - was that why Mary wasn't and Thomas was allowed to tough Him? -> not yet presented to Father?).
The resurrection of Jesus was a new beginning. If another name for Pentecost is really "Latter FF" then, for me, it's obvious it's after resurrection and not long before it (start ministry/baptism)
That said His baptism with the dove and the pentecost are very similar.
 
So....
- We need to order al festivals.
- Figure out what is the first (religious, civil, argicultural)
 
The dove at His Baptism marked the beginning of His ministry.
In a way the Pentecost marks teh beginning of the minitry of the church.
 
Father likes order and repeating patterns. So for me pick and choose random festivals is wrong. So they have to follow a certain sequence.
But I admit it's possible I don't see a certain hidden pattern that allows for a different order of festivals.....

[WhiteWings]

Another reason I don't want to give up "my" feasts that easy is that my sequence is very accurate time wise.
The time between the festivals on His birth and circumsision is exactly the required 8 days.
It matches Daniel very well. But I still have to figure out if Daniel prophesized His baptism or start of ministry.
So I'm not claiming perfection.
Yet 

[Molly]

(FF are presented to Father - was that why mary wasn't and Thomas was allowed to tough Him? -> not jest presented to Father?).

yes, I think that's part of it, but also consider that the high priest had to follow a very strict ritual before he was allowed to enter the holy of holies.  If any part of the ritual was broken, and he became unclean, he had to start all over again.

Jesus is not only the sacrificial Lamb, he is also the High Priest who enters the Holiest place and presents the sacrifice to the Father.


25Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

 26For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;


 27Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

--Heb 7

[Cardinal]

Another reason I don't want to give up "my" feasts that easy is that my sequence is very accurate time wise.
The time between the festivals on His birth and circumsision is exactly the required 8 days.
It matches Daniel very well. But I still have to figure out if Daniel prophesized His baptism or start of ministry.
So I'm not claiming perfection.
Yet 

  Pente/50, Pentecost was 50 days after Passover, with an interval of 7 X 7 days in between Passover and Pentecost. That's 7 Sabbaths, which is interesting in itself. Passover is Mar/April, and is in the first month, and Tabernacles in the 7th, Sept/Oct. of the religious year. There's only 7 months in the religious "year". God loves 7's, LOL......Blessings....

[WhiteWings]

 
 
The civil year starts at the day Jesus was born.
Religious year starts when Jesus was resurrected (reborn)
 
The time between those events is half a year.
Viewed on the civil calendar He was resurrected halfway the year.
 
Jesus was born very early in the evening. -> Jews start the day with "darkness" (Jesus was born in the darkest hour - not exactly though...)
Jesus was resurrected very early in the morning  -> Light
That's halfway the Jewish day.
 
So if the two "births" of Jesus align with night and day then half a day is missing.
Jesus was born at 18:00. He was resurrected at 06:00. So I'm missing 06:00-18:00 part of the day 

[Molly]

I'm not sure you could say he resurrected at 6:00.


That is just when he is first seen by Mary because she was waiting for the first light to go out there after the sabbath.

Clearly he resurrected before he was seen and was standing in the garden.

[Lefein]

Speaking of feasts, I want to share something that had crossed my mind before.

You know how a lot of people get themselves in a hissy fit over anyone celebrating Christmas, or Easter, or even holidays in general?  Even the Hebrew Feast days?  (I know some of these types exist at least)

I wanted to remind the world, that Jesus did not come to put us under a legalistic new religion, but came instead to give us positive, holistic freedom in Love, Life, and Truth: God.  Jesus himself never said we where not allowed to celebrate feasts, or even make feasts to celebrate victories.  Jesus ate, and drank, and the people celebrated him, and celebrate him every day - food, gifts, wine, song, and dance are wonderful ways to praise him, and having a scheduled day or week every year in which Christendom (most of it) comes together to acknowledge He is Lord, is by that token beautiful already, since the spirit of a Holy Day is in it, being made a Holy Day already, for God has made it, but even more so now, because it is a day that has been set apart, and offered up to God as a treasure, and a sacrifice of praise.

We need to always be careful that we do not go from one extreme of Legalism, to another.  Going from strictly adhering to the Mosaic Law is the ministry of Death, but to make Grace into a new series of Laws I'd daresay is worse than Legalism, but is blasphemy against the Spirit of Grace - because Grace is sufficient above The Law, or any form of Law (outward pressure to perform, or obey) that can be made.  Grace is the bi-product of Love, a breath which is exhaled when Love sighs in content, and satisfaction.

Legalism that turns Grace into Law, misses the point of Jesus in the first place, and tries to make itself righteous by abstaining from celebrating Jesus, the kernel of everything, the leaven that makes the lump holy, because "heathens, and heathenism!" are on the surface decorations.

What fool is he, who will not eat bread because he is hateful against the garnish?  A starving man is he, and a lonely man because he will not fellowship and break the bread...for reason of the garnish.

What God has called clean, do not call unclean.  God converts sinning men into saints, and purifies the dross, God can do the same for pagan things.  Did God not make the pine tree?  If we bow to the Christmas tree as a god, he will break it beneath his grace.  But if not, it is his tree because he made it - not the pagan gods.

The Legalistic man has no qualms about fasting, and will praise a man who fasts, praising him even further if he has a schedule of fasting through out the year at various times.  What is a feast?  The opposite of a fast; God gave us both the fast, and the feast to use for his glory.  If the Legalistic man will praise the scheduled fast, the scheduled feast should be fine with him also - unless he is truly a hypocrite, if that is so, may God deal with the dross of his hypocrisy and bring him to repentance.

Feast, and Fast, God has given us the days.

Blessings.

[WhiteWings]

I'm in no way promoting to keep or not to keep the feasts.
It's a fact they exist; and all I want to do is align them with His life on earth. Nothing more nothing less.
 
For the record:
I do do celebrate Christmas, Easter etc. But to be honest for me it only means a few days off at work, gaining weight and getting drunk... 
 

[Lefein]

I wasn't saying you did or didn't, I just felt lead to post something while the subject was about "Holidays". ^^

Though, if a moderator would like to move my post to a more proper place, I'd be happy to see it moved. :)

Sometimes, I feel like spamming when I post individual threads that are basically mini-sermons...

[WhiteWings]

Does someone has some info on when the Magi from the east visited Jesus? I know it's over a year later. I'm looking for a day/month.
 
According to church teachings Jesus was born at December 25th.
According to ??? the wise men arrived at January 7th. (the time many people remove the tree)
I'm aware those dates are bogus but perhaps the interval between them have some truth in them.
If I add 13 days to the birth of Jesus I arrive at Sukkot - Feast of Tabernacles
 

[WhiteWings]

I wasn't saying you did or didn't, I just felt lead to post something while the subject was about "Holidays". ^^

Though, if a moderator would like to move my post to a more proper place, I'd be happy to see it moved. :)

Sometimes, I feel like spamming when I post individual threads that are basically mini-sermons...

I have no problem with your mini-sermon Lefein.
I just wanted to make sure I'm not promoting feasts. Just digging for a pattern
 
/EDIT
I do promote one feast.
Being a guest at the wedding feast.
I hope the mods forgive me not using "as I see it" in that statement 

[WhiteWings]

Me again....
Jesus did read a few verses from the Torah in the Temple.
Can some show me the verses?
And about when in His life that was.
 
I'm guessing about Tishri 22 - Shemini Atzeret/Simchat Torah - Rejoicing the Torah (ceremony in which parts of the Torah where read aloud)

[Molly]

It happens right after he has been tempted by Satan in the desert which is 40 days after he has been baptised by John the Baptist.



16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

 17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

 18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

 19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

 20And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

 21And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

--Luke 4

[WhiteWings]

That's your answer Cardinal.
His ministry started at baptism or after the fast.
Tabernacles is 7 days before "Rejoicing the Torah" so can impossibly be during baptism.
 
 
 
   
I also think there was much more than 40 days between "Rejoicing the Torah" and baptism.
- Prepare for travel to the wilderness
- Travel
- 40 day fast
- Recover from fast
- Travel back home
- Some time between His arrival in Jerusalem and "Rejoicing the Torah"
 
Maybe it took a total of 66 days. (less cold in July)
That would mean baptism was at Tu B'av -> Beginning of the grape harvest and Festival of love  (Not Roman style because it would mean lots of stoning..)
 
 

[WhiteWings]

I found another piece of the puzzle. Actually two.
Somewhere in my notes I've written down that in Daniel 8 it's prophecized that Jesus attends to "Festival of Lights - Hannukah" 1150 days after the start of His ministry.
This proves His ministry lasted at least 1150 days = 3.15 year. That rules out the views that His ministry lasted only 1, 2 or 3 years.
It also pinpoints the start of His ministry. For me it was always guesswork if His ministry started at Baptizm or after the 40 days.
The answer is that His ministry started after the 40 days. ~5 days after He did read from the Torah in the Temple.
The start of the ministry isn't at a festival day but that could be due my inacurate calculation. I simply use Excel to count days. So that means at least an error of one leap day. Possibly more my sleepy head can think of right now so I would be suprised at all if ministry started right then right there in the Temple....
The verse He did read is a perfect opening verse for a ministry imo.
Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

 
The problems is that I can't locate it in Daniel 8.
I know it's (also) linked to: http://www.1260-1290-days-bible-prophecy.org/1260_days-bible-prophecy-numbers-ch-2e.htm
If someone wants to do some digging while I'm 
 
 
 
/EDIT
It's Daniel 8:13-14
Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days (2300); then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. [Chanukkah] 
 

[Molly]

He reads to the synagogue at Nazareth, then Matthew shows us what comes next.





12Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee;

 13And leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim:

 14That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,

 15The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles;

 16The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.

 17From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

 18And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers.

 19And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.

--Mat 4

[WhiteWings]

A thought/question that popped up just after I'd shut down my PC.
How many days after Pentecost the 12 started their ministry?
Could it be another 50 days.
I'm asking because it's possible Jesus started His ministry 50 days after baptsim.
40 days + 10 extra days for travel etc.
 
Some sort of reversed pentecost. Instead of counting 50 days toward Pentecost it's counting 50 days from Pentecost.
It was 50 days from Passover. At passover it's celebrated the houses of the Jews were skipped. No death in those houses.
The symbolism of baptism is that one dies (in a grave of water) and rises as a new person.
Who is born twice would die again. I'm stretching things a bit/lot but: Jewish Passover=Gentile Baptism
At both event the clock starts counting down to 50 days.
The difference is that when the dove came from heaven. At the start or at teh end of the 50 days.
 
I also have a problem with the fact that Baptsim took place at an average none festival day... (unless it was 66 days)
Just thinking out loud here....

[WhiteWings]

His ministry lasted 1260 days. That is 3.45 years in our counting.
But when using 360 day years it's exactly 3.5 years. He was cut off half way the week. Because His ministry started on a Sabbath year it means He dies halfway the Sabbath cycle. (=7 years = week of years)
My question: When the Bible mentions ages does it always use 360 day years?
Someone can become a priest at 30 years of age.
Is that 30*360=10800 days (=29.57 years)
Or 30*365.25=10958 days (=30 years)
 
/EDIT
A better question is when should I count with 360 day years.
"We" add a leap day every for years. And a leap second to compensate for calendar inaccuracy.
The Jews compensate with a leap month. So a Jewish year is 360(regular) or 390(leap) days.
Are there certain rules for deciding what to use.
Did Jesus ministry lasts 3.5 x 360-day year because:
a] Prophetic event are always counted in 360-day years.
b] Or because there was simply no leap month during His ministry.
 
Note on option b]: There was a leap month in His ministry unless it lasted much shorter as I think it did.

[Molly]

Jesus is baptized with water and the dove comes down from heaven and alights on him.  John the Baptist has been told by the Father to look for the one on whom the Spirit stays.  So we see Jesus presented as the anointed one on whom the Spirit stays.

But the interesting thing is--I don't think we are ever told the disciples were baptised with water.
Jesus breathes the Holy Spirit onto them after the resurrection, and then the tongues of fire come on them at Pentecost.


The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,

 2Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

 3To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

 4And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

 5For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

--Acts 1



They are baptized with fire on the day of Pentecost and start converting people immediately.



1And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

 2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

 3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

 4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

--Acts 2



41Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
--Acts 2

[WhiteWings]

Weird; a snake has a cloven tongue. Animals with cloven hooves are unclean 

[Ross]

Hi;
Also interesting in Acts 2;6-11  " When this sound occured the multitude came together and was confused because each one heard them speaking in his own language. And they were astounded and amazed saying,
 ' Look, aren't all these who are speaking Galileans? How is it that we hear, each one of us, in our own native language? Parthians, Medes, Elamites, those who live in Mesopotamia, in Judea, and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts o Lybia near Cyrene; visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabs- WE HEAR THEM SPEAKING IN OUR OWN LANGUAGES THE MAGNIFICENT ACTS OF GOD."

* This seems to indicate that the gift of tongues meant they spoke in other languages known to people of the area.

[WhiteWings]

Hi Ross,
Undoing the Babylonian 'speech confusion' (don't know the English word for it)
A split tougue speaks with many voices. Only this time not just lies.

[Ross]

Hi Whitewings;
Undoing Babylonian -  That is a pretty good concept.
Split tongue- is that the same as forked tongue?

[WhiteWings]

I think you are making a word joke Ross?
English is not my first language. So I miss the clue 
For me: Split=forked=cloven

[Ross]

If english is not your first language you are still doing some pretty good explaining on your posts.
My dad was a teacher and of dutch descent so he was used to plays on words. One trouble with English is the misinterpretation. I have seen many posts where two people are saying the same thing yet seem to think they are disagreeing.
Your split-cloven is actually pretty good too.