Question for anyone....

[Lefein]

Sometimes I think God wanted to be purposefully ironic and so decided to be born on a date we'd never expect.  July 13th might be good. 

(I don't think we'll ever know when he was born)

[thinktank]

Sometimes I think God wanted to be purposefully ironic and so decided to be born on a date we'd never expect.  July 13th might be good. 

(I don't think we'll ever know when he was born)

we should be able to know the season, from scripture....

[Cardinal]

  Well, one thing we do know, is the shepherds were in the fields, and the shepherds aren't in the fields in December.....my best guess is He was born during the feast of Tabernacles which is Sept./Oct. Blessings....

[Beloved Servant]

I know Card, that seems obvious to me, too, but would not such an auspicious moment have been recorded or prophesied?

[WhiteWings]

ps. can you delete the bad blas joke from your quote box, ty.

???

[jabcat]

ps. can you delete the bad blas joke from your quote box, ty.

???

I think TT means the "blasphemy" joke...he apparently took it out of his original post   

[WhiteWings]

Well, one thing we do know, is the shepherds were in the fields, and the shepherds aren't in the fields in December.....my best guess is He was born during the feast of Tabernacles which is Sept./Oct. Blessings....

This is what I got:
 
Concieved: 15 December 4 BC - Hanukkah = Festival of lights 
Birth: 6:15pm-7:45pm, Sept 11 3BC Rosh Hashana, Feast of Trumpets -> Jewish new year for legal affairs. (king)  Circumsision: Yom Kippur = Day of atonement
Still working on this. Date is correct but the year could be a year wrong.
Baptism: 14/15 Sept 26 AD - Eve of Sukkot = Tabernacles
Start ministry    Guessing Festival of light at November 24th
Death at passover Friday 31 AD
Resurection at Firstfruits. 31AD -> Religious new year.   

[WhiteWings]

ps. can you delete the bad blas joke from your quote box, ty.

???

I think TT means the "blasphemy" joke...he apparently took it out of his original post   

Double 
Post/reply number?
 
/EDIT I think I found it.

[thinktank]

should we be celebrating his birthday though?

Would that be celebrating an earthly temple, instead of worshipping in spirit and in truth 

Are there any scriptures where christians celebrate the birth of Jesus?

edit

the post is one page ahead of this thread, wings. TY

[Beloved Servant]

It's about 3 a.m. in WhiteWings land.

[Lefein]

September 11th being the date of Jesus' birth is kinda odd...

I dislike it, to be honest, but then again I don't know when he was born, and that might have been his irony anyway.

[WhiteWings]

It's about 3 a.m. in WhiteWings land.

2am. It's still summer time here.

[WhiteWings]

September 11th being the date of Jesus' birth is kinda odd...

I dislike it, to be honest, but then again I don't know when he was born, and that might have been his irony anyway.

Maybe we can change it into 10th for you?
Jewish day start at dawn around 18:00.
I think it are very nice days because they all are on religious festivals.
It's not just guesswork by me. There is much support for it.
But not all is biblical.
The Roman sensus is ofcourse just a secular event that is found in secular documents.
The birth of John 6 months before Jesus is linked to Jewish religious documents because he was concieved when his father returned from his priest term/duty (I don't know the exact term for it)
I case you wonder about the exact time....
That's a mix between astronomy and Bible verses. In Rev we find a description of a woman (=Virgo) standing on the moon clothed with the sun. That's the sun in in the womb of Virgo. That pinpoints the exact time.
Another combination of astronomy and verses that gives a hint is the star that moves and stands still. Planets never stand still. But their orbit is such that looking from earth there is a visual illusion it stands still.
Can't remeber this part exactly but likely it's enough for you to pinpoint the verses (in the OT)
Some verses speak of a King/Lion. That's the Leo starsign. With a staff=lawgiver between his feet. Regulus is the ruler planet. And the months that the star was traveling en Jesus actual birth planet Regulus was between the pawns of starsign Leo (plus a few other significant planets)
That's also the answer to TTs question ".......I thought scholars never could pinpoint HIs birth"
I think it's clear none of the events I mentioned was unique.
The hard part is matching all events.  Much confusion was cause by Herods death. Scholars came to the 3BC conclusion before but that was very problematic because all secular sources were convinced Herod died 4BC. The Bible is clear Herod was alive when Jesus was born. The sensus Joseph and Mary wenst to was another problem. The known ones didn't align with other data. But eventually that got cleared up by discovery of documents that do show a type of census at that period of time.

[WhiteWings]

should we be celebrating his birthday though?

Would that be celebrating an earthly temple, instead of worshipping in spirit and in truth 

Are there any scriptures where christians celebrate the birth of Jesus?

I think there are very very few Christian holidays commanded in the Bible.
There are several ways you can look at (the birth of) Jesus.
a] The historical figure.
b] His teachings.
c] His significance.
d] His symbolism.
 
Personally I think there is no harm in setting aside a very special day to celibrate.
That could the day He was born as a baby.
But because you have a problem with His earthly temple you could for example celebrate First Fruits when He was reborn in His new Temple.
Or maybe you prefer the day Jesus returned to heaven. Or 25th December when the three man from the east (astrologers/magi/Zoroaster followers) came to honor the one year old Jesus as a future king.
You see, I'm not trying to force/talk anyone into any celibration.
Although I'm very much convinced of the pagan origens of Christamas (sun god), New years eve (scaring demons out of time with loud noises) and Easter (fertility/rape festival in the honor of godess Isthar) it doesn't mean when I celebrate them I kneel for those false gods...

edit
the post is one page ahead of this thread, wings. TY

Page length depends on how you and me have configured our profile.
So reply number please...

[Cardinal]

I know Card, that seems obvious to me, too, but would not such an auspicious moment have been recorded or prophesied?

  It was prophesied somehow; the 3 wise men knew about it, time wise. It's probably staring us in the face somewhere in the Tabernacle pattern. I mean, if the 60 posts of it represent men (can't remember now how that went), you know He didn't leave that out in there SOMEWHERE. The Jews probably were aware of it, and chose to ignore it, as the whole thing was a threat to their positions. My  Blessings....

[thinktank]

I remember someone said, that all the hotels were full, because there was some festival going on. That might hep the date.

 

[WhiteWings]

I remember someone said, that all the hotels were full, because there was some festival going on. That might hep the date.

 

That was because of the census. There is no disagreement on the fact there was a census. (Luke clearly wrote that) The disagreement is about what census.
Such a sensus sometimes took more as a year. There were also several types. The census' allows for a possible birth date of 11BC to 1BC.
This particular sensus was not an ordinary count. The emperor was declared "Father of the state/empire" a title of honor.
Roman citizens came to "approve" that title. It was not for ordinary people but besides for Roman citizens the more higher ranking people.
That would mean Joseph and Mary had some standing. That's likely because Joseph's (and Jesus) proffesion was not a simple carpenter.
The were more like architects/master builders of large wooden contructions like bridges (and large houses)
 
Anyway, imo, there isn't a single event that pinpoint His birth. Several bits of info are needed to get some accuracy.
Just like Herods death that was near a lunar eclipse. But that's useless info if you don't know the year of his death. Lunar eclipses are not very rare...
 
Other things that are more gut feeling is that all special events are on holy days. Ministry was during a Sabbath and Jubilee year.
Ideal for His ministry because farmers all were in town to look for a job because farming was stricktly forbidden at that time.
That are little bits of extra proof for me.
 
Dare I to conclude things fall so nicely into place it looks like planned   

[Molly]

Dare I to conclude things fall so nicely into place it looks like planned   

I never thought I would live to see the day when you would say something like that, ww.  Yes, you may dare--"This time I will praise the Lord."

He is the Lion of the tribe of Judah.  Judah = Praise.

He is the Lion of the tribe of Praise.  That would be us.

Thank you! 

[micah7:9]

should we be celebrating his birthday though?

Would that be celebrating an earthly temple, instead of worshipping in spirit and in truth 

Are there any scriptures where christians celebrate the birth of Jesus?

edit

the post is one page ahead of this thread, wings. TY

Thinktank, You got it right. " Are there any scriptures where christians celebrate the birth of Jesus?  NO.

Gal 4:9  and now, having known God--and rather being known by God--how turn ye again unto the weak and poor elements to which anew ye desire to be in servitude?
Gal 4:10  days ye observe, and months, and times, and years!
Gal 4:11  I am afraid of you, lest in vain I did labour toward you.

I suggest it is unimportant, for one thing its an earthy ritual, and secondly He Is IAM

[Cardinal]

I remember someone said, that all the hotels were full, because there was some festival going on. That might hep the date.

 

That was because of the census. There is no disagreement on the fact there was a census. (Luke clearly wrote that) The disagreement is about what census.
Such a sensus sometimes took more as a year. There were also several types. The census' allows for a possible birth date of 11BC to 1BC.
This particular sensus was not an ordinary count. The emperor was declared "Father of the state/empire" a title of honor.
Roman citizens came to "approve" that title. It was not for ordinary people but besides for Roman citizens the more higher ranking people.
That would mean Joseph and Mary had some standing. That's likely because Joseph's (and Jesus) proffesion was not a simple carpenter.
The were more like architects/master builders of large wooden contructions like bridges (and large houses)
 
Anyway, imo, there isn't a single event that pinpoint His birth. Several bits of info are needed to get some accuracy.
Just like Herods death that was near a lunar eclipse. But that's useless info if you don't know the year of his death. Lunar eclipses are not very rare...
 
Other things that are more gut feeling is that all special events are on holy days. Ministry was during a Sabbath and Jubilee year.
Ideal for His ministry because farmers all were in town to look for a job because farming was stricktly forbidden at that time.
That are little bits of extra proof for me.
 
Dare I to conclude things fall so nicely into place it looks like planned   

  Don't forget that the festivals were actually moeds (divine appointments) ordained by God in which the sons (and their families came usually) 20 years and older were required to bring a sacrifice and come before the Lord. The 3 main festivals, including, of course, Tabernacles we're discussing, was such an occasion. That is another reason why I believe it was in Tabernacles, ie. God tabernacled among men. This would be why there was no place at the inn, as Jews from everywhere were required to come.

Also, the only reason why I think we're to know, is because it points to His divine patterns again, just like the Tabernacle and just like the Word has. My  Blessings....

[WhiteWings]

I certainly don't ignore festivals. In fact they are very high on my list. I can pinpoint things fairly well but Sept-Okt is hard because there are many significant festivals in that period.
 
What about this variation?
- Concieved: Festival of lights
- Birth: Rosh Hashana = Feast of trumpets = head of year = New year = great pagan significance because kings are born then -> Magi are pagans
- Circumcision: Yom Kippur = Day of atonement. (8 days after birth)
- Presented in temple: 41 days after birth because Mary stayed unclean 40 days. Can't find a festival for this date.
 
- Baptism: Eve of Sukkot = Tabernacles -> At this point He was "really" among us
- Ministry: Eve of Sukkot = Tabernacles -> At this point He was "really" among us
Not yet sure about those two. Again many festivals in that period. Possible baptism or ministry was at Day of atonment.
 
- Death: Passover
- Resurrection: First Fruits.
 
Is Tabernacles at baptism or start of ministry an option for you?
 
 

[Cardinal]

  I don't know, I've never really thought about it from that perspective. I always tended to think it was His Pentecost because of the baptism and the anointing (Spirit like a dove) that came upon Him. The dove was the sacrifice for the poor, another reference possibly? Good work on all your digging, though. You'd make a scholar blush, trying to keep up with you.    Blessings....

[WhiteWings]

I have absolutely no proof for this claim besides that it feels good and I find it obvious:
a] Important events in Jesus' life must be on festival days.
b] The important events in Jesus life must have the order they have on the Jewish callendar.
c] Jesus was resurrected at the first day/event of the argigutual/religious year First Fruits. So my guess is that His birth (possibly conception) must be a the end of the year.
 
I stopped my "research" at resurrection. But indeed Pentecost is an important event too. (But not a Jewish event)
So during the life of Jesus that festival had no importance because it simply didn't exist.
Again according to my feeling that means it's not logical to be linked to the baptism of Jesus.
a] The festival didn't exist yet.
b] It marks the founding of church and that happend after His death. Altough it can be argued that His ministry was laying the foundation of the church. But that conflicts a bit with Peter being the foundation.
c] All festivals I mentioned in my short list are commanded by God. But Pentecost....?
 
Maybe it would be nice to dig up the real/original meaning of the festivals. That may give greater understanding/prrof about their order.
Father always was fond of patterns; so why not use them during the pivot point of His masterplan?

[Molly]

Pentecost or Shavuot has many names in the Bible (the Feast of Weeks, the Feast of Harvest, and the Latter Firstfruits). Celebrated on the fiftieth day after Passover, Shavuot is traditionally a joyous time of giving thanks and presenting offerings for the new grain of the summer wheat harvest in Israel. The name "Feast of Weeks" was given because God commanded the Jews in Leviticus 23:15-16, to count seven full weeks (or 49 days) beginning on the second day of Passover, and then present offerings of new grain to the Lord as a lasting ordinance.

Shavuot was originally a festival for expressing thankfulness to the Lord for the blessing of the harvest. And because it occurred at the conclusion of the Passover, it acquired the name "Latter Firstfruits." The celebration is also tied to the giving of the Ten Commandments and thus bears the name Matin Torah or "giving of the Law." Jews believe that it was exactly at this time that God gave the Torah to the people through Moses on Mount Sinai.

Time of Observance:
Pentecost is celebrated on the fiftieth day after Passover, or the sixth day of the Hebrew month of Sivan (May or June).

--christianity.about.com




"latter first fruits"--that's us.

[Cardinal]

    Hi WW.....I think you missed the fact "Pentecost" was feast #2 of the 3 the Jewish males were required to attend. Blessings....