Author Topic: When Was Hell Created?  (Read 8239 times)

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Offline jabcat

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When Was Hell Created?
« on: December 03, 2010, 05:40:51 AM »
From Gary;

"If salvation is deliverance from Hell in which most of mankind will be tormented forever, according to the Bible, when in God's plan of creation did He create this place?"
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline micah7:9

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Re: When Was Hell Created?
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2010, 07:48:39 AM »
"This place," as you describe aint and never was in His plan.  Is this a trick question?


There a work by Thomas B. Thayer on endless punishment, all the way from OT to NT that noting is mentioned.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2010, 02:40:18 PM by micah7:9 »
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline jabcat

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Re: When Was Hell Created?
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2010, 09:13:22 AM »
 :Sparkletooth:  I don't think it's a trick question.  I think since so many claim there's an eternal hell, Gary's wondering if it makes sense in terms of when was it supposedly created.

It still doesn't say when it was created, but some say "hell" is actually this [WhiteWing's recent thread];  "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.  Matthew 25:41;  and that God decided at some point to put mankind there.
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

The Beautiful Heresy

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Re: When Was Hell Created?
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2010, 01:20:11 PM »
Yes, I would like to know the same thing. I would think the OT would mention of this eternal burning chamber, at least the "Jews" would know something of it. ( I would think).   :dontknow:

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: When Was Hell Created?
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2010, 08:36:28 PM »


Salvation is not deliverance from hell in the first place.

Offline thinktank

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Re: When Was Hell Created?
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2010, 11:22:17 PM »
Interesting that the verse describes sheep and goats. Aren't goats considered a type of sheep?. If these bad people were completely outside Gods definition of sheep as his children, then why use goats? Would it not make more sense to use cattle or even better, swine?
To me a goat is a symbol of a rebellious sheep, and the scripture says that God will save All his sheep. This verse might indicate punishment but not eternally lost goats.
It depends on what Jesus, His definition of what he meant by 'goats'.

When it comes to MAthew 25:41
I see it as hell being upon the earth, not in some underworld region. It could be that through time, God will bring the devil and his angels upon the earth out in the open. The book of Isiah or ezekiel says that all kings shall behold thee and thou shalt be brought to ashes upon the earth in the sight of those that beheld the.

It could be that all the sheep who are saved will be safe in Gods kingdom his safety upon the earth, while the devil and his angels will be left outside the city gates, who will face HELL fire upon the earth.
Peter said that all the earth will burn with fervent heat.

If this is old testament type Sodom and Gomorah fire then they will be consumed and destroyed, but if it is spiritual fire of God, then they will be tormented in the presence of the lamb and holy angels, both the goats and the devil and his angels.
But the sheep, the saints will be safe in the kingdom of God
Jesus said something in the region of"You will see abraham and the prophets, but you will be cast outside, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth"

None of these judgments indicate eternal torment, they only indicate torment or distress for a period of time.


If it indicates an old testment fire of destruction, then this indicates ED. In the context of All men be saved, this could mean, that, they will be destroyed but brought back to life at some point, or it means that Jesus accomplish his mission and will save all men and not one person will be a goat and so mankind = zero goats, but the devil and his angels will be eternally destroyed, in this judgment that the scripture says was prepared for him.

 :2c:


Texas Son

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Re: When Was Hell Created?
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2010, 01:11:54 PM »
"This place," as you describe aint and never was in His plan.  Is this a trick question?


There a work by Thomas B. Thayer on endless punishment, all the way from OT to NT that noting is mentioned.

Interesting choice of words, but can there ever be anythig that was "never was in His plan"? If God knows everything (and He does :wink: ) then how can anything be outside of His plan?  :happy3:

Offline ded2daworld

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Re: When Was Hell Created?
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2010, 03:16:04 PM »
IF hell was created, it would have been during creation week. It's not mentioned. The old testament does not ever mention the kind of hell envisioned by  many christians today. Remember in revelation God says, "Behold, I make all things new", he does NOT say, "Behold, I make all new things"
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

Texas Son

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Re: When Was Hell Created?
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2010, 03:55:23 PM »
IF hell was created, it would have been during creation week. It's not mentioned. The old testament does not ever mention the kind of hell envisioned by  many christians today. Remember in revelation God says, "Behold, I make all things new", he does NOT say, "Behold, I make all new things"

And if hell was created during the creation week, it was probably on a Monday. They always feel like hell to me.  :laughing7:

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: When Was Hell Created?
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2010, 04:52:28 PM »



THE
ORIGIN AND HISTORY
OF THE
Doctrine of Endless Punishment

BY
THOMAS B. THAYER:

http://www.godfire.net/Doctrine%20of%20Endless%20Punishment%20.htm

 

Offline micah7:9

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Re: When Was Hell Created?
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2010, 10:18:49 PM »



THE
ORIGIN AND HISTORY
OF THE
Doctrine of Endless Punishment

BY
THOMAS B. THAYER:

http://www.godfire.net/Doctrine%20of%20Endless%20Punishment%20.htm

 :thumbsup: Thanks my friend :bigGrin:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: When Was Hell Created?
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2010, 10:33:58 PM »



My pleasure, dear Micah.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: When Was Hell Created?
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2010, 03:05:53 AM »



My pleasure, dear Micah.

To use a less heard affirmitive on this sire "COOL"  :bigGrin:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: When Was Hell Created?
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2011, 09:24:37 AM »
IF hell was created, it would have been during creation week. It's not mentioned.
Depends. Some say hell is in the core of earth (or sun).
 :dsunny:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline CHB

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Re: When Was Hell Created?
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2011, 06:27:01 PM »
(Matt. 25:41) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, PREPARED {or made ready} for the devil and his angels.

Well, from this we know it was created, prepared, or made ready. Wouldn't you think it was made ready when everything else was?

Has anyone noticed this before? In (Matt. 13:41,43) it says "The Son of man shall send his angels, and they shall GATHER OUT OF HIS KINGDOM ALL THINGS THAT OFFEND, AND THEM WHICH DO INIQUITY.  In verse 43 it says "THEN THE RIGHTEOUS SHALL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN.   Sounds like these are the same people doesn't it? Once things that offend and do iniquity are thrown out, then they will be righteous and shine forth.

CHB

« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 06:36:57 PM by CHB »

Offline Taffy

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Re: When Was Hell Created?
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2011, 06:48:18 PM »
From Gary;

"If salvation is deliverance from Hell in which most of mankind will be tormented forever, according to the Bible, when in God's plan of creation did He create this place?"
James

 Hell= the DEAD and the Grave- this came into Place the second Eve gave birth to Thought- Call is a STATE of MIND\existance- The dead live within this Realm= The dead KNOW nothing= UNTIL LFE , Christ raises within-Hence we ALL move from DEATH to LIFE through the renewing of the soul  :icon_flower:

The Hell[ETS] beilive just doesnt exist - Never have -
« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 07:08:19 PM by Taffy »
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: When Was Hell Created?
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2011, 07:00:11 PM »
(Matt. 25:41) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, PREPARED {or made ready} for the devil and his angels.

Well, from this we know it was created, prepared, or made ready. Wouldn't you think it was made ready when everything else was?

Has anyone noticed this before? In (Matt. 13:41,43) it says "The Son of man shall send his angels, and they shall GATHER OUT OF HIS KINGDOM ALL THINGS THAT OFFEND, AND THEM WHICH DO INIQUITY.  In verse 43 it says "THEN THE RIGHTEOUS SHALL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN.   Sounds like these are the same people doesn't it? Once things that offend and do iniquity are thrown out, then they will be righteous and shine forth.

CHB
That can easily be twisted into:
41 Sinners are collected and saints stay behind.
42 Sinners are cast in the fire.
43 Now the kingdom shines because only the saints are left (and sinners are in hell)
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline CHB

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Re: When Was Hell Created?
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2011, 09:14:06 PM »
WW,

You are right, I always saw it like you said even until just now.  :laughing7: All of a sudden it jumped out at me that this was talking about the righteous in verse 43. I always thought these in verse 41 weren't even allowed into the kingdom in the first place.

CHB

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: When Was Hell Created?
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2011, 09:25:59 PM »
Ok big C,

Let's shake hands


1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Nathan

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Re: When Was Hell Created?
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2011, 09:36:28 PM »
(Matt. 25:41) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, PREPARED {or made ready} for the devil and his angels.

Well, from this we know it was created, prepared, or made ready. Wouldn't you think it was made ready when everything else was?

Has anyone noticed this before? In (Matt. 13:41,43) it says "The Son of man shall send his angels, and they shall GATHER OUT OF HIS KINGDOM ALL THINGS THAT OFFEND, AND THEM WHICH DO INIQUITY.  In verse 43 it says "THEN THE RIGHTEOUS SHALL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN.   Sounds like these are the same people doesn't it? Once things that offend and do iniquity are thrown out, then they will be righteous and shine forth.

CHB
That can easily be twisted into:
41 Sinners are collected and saints stay behind.
42 Sinners are cast in the fire.
43 Now the kingdom shines because only the saints are left (and sinners are in hell)

It "can" and it "is".  It's conformed to a belief system of the very adversarial nature in man that the fire was "prepared" for.  However, because we are all temples of his Holy Spirit, we are ALL heirs to this kingdom it speaks of.  And as such, we ourselves are not to be destroyed, only the offensive nature . . .the adversarial parts of us . . .the carnailty "in" us will be purged.  It may not be a pleasant thing . . .but it's definitely a temporary thing and it's definitely an act of love.  The kingdom shines becuase it's inhabitants have NOT been separated from unbelieving inhabitants . . .but because the carnality in the existing inhabitants has been cleansed.

On a side note . . .we often refer to nonchristians as "unbelievers".  Even our own perspective of these people has a negative tone.  What if instead of them being nonbelievers, what they actually are, are "prebelievers".  That just has a much more positive pronouncement with it don't ya think??

Offline Taffy

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Re: When Was Hell Created?
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2011, 09:45:40 PM »
1Cr 3:9   For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building. 


 1Cr 3:10   According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 


 1Cr 3:11   For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 


 1Cr 3:12   Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 


 1Cr 3:13   Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 


 1Cr 3:14   If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 


 1Cr 3:15   If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 

such HAY stubble and WOOD will perish in the Fire- those being the attributes of man [ carnal Mind - ]BUT it SAYS SAVED through the FIRE- this fires sounding GOOD- PTL IT """""""""""""""SAVES"""""""""""""

 :icon_flower:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Nathan

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Re: When Was Hell Created?
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2011, 10:18:33 PM »
SUH-WEEET!!!

Offline CHB

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Re: When Was Hell Created?
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2011, 10:30:53 PM »
Ok big C,

Let's shake hands



Wow WW!!! You must be one hot dude.  :laughing7:

pollypinks

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Re: When Was Hell Created?
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2011, 04:31:14 PM »
Hell was created in latin, by the Romans, somewhere between the 3rd and 6th century as they decided to transcribe early scriptures and texts from greek and hebrew into their language.  But it will always make the majority of Christians very happy to preach hell, because that means they can one up other people, and use that to convert them.  That always precedes having the person state the magic words, and then they feel this glorious power since they've been instrumental in bringing that poor hapless soul to salvation.  Remember, no one knows another one's heart quite as well as evangelicals.

Offline Nathan

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Re: When Was Hell Created?
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2011, 09:22:09 AM »
Odd thing with this hell doctrine is . . .it's based on fear and those that embrace it use that fear tactic to get their listener to react.  And for us who don't beleive, they "become" afraid because they can't seem to fathom a gospel without hell as it's base.  Can't take the "dangerous drop-off" sign down . . .people will blindly fall off the cliff.  What they can't seem to grasp is, it's at the edge of the cliff that we learn how to fly.