Author Topic: What is the lake of fire  (Read 6379 times)

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Offline Jock

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What is the lake of fire
« on: May 02, 2013, 04:51:58 PM »
I have trouble envisioning the lake of fire. Is it the second death ? Does God kill people in it only to raise them again?

Jock

Offline mplsfitter539

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Shema O Israel, Yahweh our Elohim is Yahweh echad!!!

Offline FineLinen

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Re: What is the lake of fire
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2013, 05:40:18 PM »
I have trouble envisioning the lake of fire. Is it the second death ? Does God kill people in it only to raise them again?

Jock

Jock, try to envision the Pi ratio flowing to over 200 billion digits from the decimal point, and still counting. And then try to envision the Creator of Pi who we read is "verily a God who hides himself", and you will begin to grasp the magnitude of the answer to your questions.

The Lake of Fire & Brimstone

The Lake of Fire and Brimstone signifies a fire burning with brimstone; the word "brimstone" or sulfur defines the character of the fire.

The word theion translated as "brimstone" is exactly the same word theion which means "divine." Sulfur was sacred to the ancient Greeks; and was used to fumigate, to purify, and to cleanse and to consecrate to the deity; for this purpose they burned it in their incense. In Homer's Iliad (16:228) one is spoken of as purifying a goblet with fire and brimstone. The verb derived from theion is theioo, which means to hallow, to make divine, or to dedicate to a god. (See Liddell & Scott Greek- English Lexicon, 1897 Edition)

Both theion and theioo are rooted firmly in Theos.

To any Greek, or to any trained in the Greek language, a "lake of fire and brimstone" would mean a "lake of divine purification." The idea of judgment need not be excluded (see chapter 10 on the judgments of God). Divine purification and divine consecration are the plain meaning of the ancient Greek. In the ordinary explanation, this fundamental meaning of the word is entirely left out.

Rev. Charles H. Pridgeon M.A.

President & Founder of the Pittsburg Bible Institute

"But at length, O God, wilt thou not cast Death and Hell into the lake of Fire—even into thine own consuming self? Death shall then die everlastingly, And Hell itself will pass away, And leave her dolorous mansions to the peering day." -George MacDonald-
In the Christian story God descends to reascend. He comes down;.... down to the very roots and sea-bed of the Nature He has created. But He goes down to come up again and bring the whole ruined world up with Him. -C.S. Lewis

Offline Lazarus Short

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Re: What is the lake of fire
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2013, 05:42:00 PM »
Seeing the Lake of Fire as a tool of Annihilation is easy.  However, given the many verses in the Bible which describe God as a "refining fire,"  we see the LoF as an agent of purification, not of destruction.  The Lake of Fire is there to burn away our "wood, hay, and stubble," leaving the silver and gold, if we have any.  It is the Second Death, but we know now, don't we, that death is temporal, and will end when Death itself is thrown into the Lake of Fire, all those thrown in will come out?  I admit that the Eternal Destruction crowd will say, "How can the LoF be for the destruction of Death and Hell, but not for the wicked who have been thrown in too?"  In the end, we must look to God's intent and His Plan.
Socrates taught Plato.  Plato taught Aristotle.  Aristotle tutored the son of Philip of Macedon.  This boy grew up to become Alexander the Great, largely by slaughtering a lot of people.  That's philosophy.

Jesus spoke the Truth.  He blessed the poor.  He healed the sick.  He even raised the dead.  He died on a cross for us, lived again, and came back long enough to tell us to love one another.  That's religion.

Offline Jock

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Re: What is the lake of fire
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2013, 06:02:39 PM »
Thanks Lazarus, that was nice and clear.

Finelinen, your post was encouraging and educational although at some points, a little over my head

Thanks guys  :Peace2:

Offline CHB

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Re: What is the lake of fire
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2013, 09:01:57 PM »
I don't think the lake of fire is a literal fire. The fire is to burn out all of man's works that are not profitable as it says in (1Cor. 3:13-15). In verse 15 it says "if any man's work shall be burned". So we see that it is works that will be burned not the person.  In (Rev.21:8) it speaks about the "fearful, unbelieving, abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, liars, and so forth shall have their part in the lake of fire which is the second death." Again it is not the person who will be hurt in the fire but all of these things.
When all of these things are destroyed it will be the death of sin. Remember what Paul said, if we are dead in Christ then we have died to sin.

Just the way I understand it.

CHB

Offline micah7:9

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Re: What is the lake of fire
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2013, 05:07:27 PM »
I don't think the lake of fire is a literal fire. The fire is to burn out all of man's works that are not profitable as it says in (1Cor. 3:13-15). In verse 15 it says "if any man's work shall be burned". So we see that it is works that will be burned not the person.  In (Rev.21:8) it speaks about the "fearful, unbelieving, abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, liars, and so forth shall have their part in the lake of fire which is the second death." Again it is not the person who will be hurt in the fire but all of these things.
When all of these things are destroyed it will be the death of sin. Remember what Paul said, if we are dead in Christ then we have died to sin.

Just the way I understand it.

CHB
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Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Jock

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Re: What is the lake of fire
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2013, 07:13:05 PM »
I think a lot of Christians get confused, perhaps thinking that the Lake of Fire, is Hell.


Jock

Offline mplsfitter539

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Re: What is the lake of fire
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2013, 07:21:08 PM »
I think a lot of Christians get confused, perhaps thinking that the Lake of Fire, is Hell.


Jock
One hundred points to you!! The fact that most Christians get important issues like this wrong is why they are so far off track. If Christians would just subtract all things pagan from what they believe and practice we could get back on track. LoF being also hell is an absurd and conflicting doctrine.
Shema O Israel, Yahweh our Elohim is Yahweh echad!!!

Offline Jock

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Re: What is the lake of fire
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2013, 08:09:38 PM »

Right, the problem is that they are taught this by men/women who either want to control them or don't know the difference themselves! A lot of Christians don't read the Bible much or think critically.

Offline mplsfitter539

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Re: What is the lake of fire
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2013, 09:48:57 PM »
I have to agree most people in general do not use their critical thinking skills especially when it comes to faith. I know many people who proclaim to be Christians and yet refuse to apply critical thinking to all of the garbage that is believed and practiced by them. Religion gets in the way of the Holy Spirit working in people.
Shema O Israel, Yahweh our Elohim is Yahweh echad!!!

Offline Ken

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Re: What is the lake of fire
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2013, 08:05:04 AM »
Hello Jock,

Perhaps this article will shed more light on the subject:

http://www.askelm.com/secrets/sec106.htm


I hope this helps.

Ken

I have trouble envisioning the lake of fire. Is it the second death ? Does God kill people in it only to raise them again?

Jock
ASSOCIATES ONLINE - http://ernestlmartin.com
A Worldwide Ekklesia Dedicated to the Life Learning Process

Offline Eduard

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Re: What is the lake of fire
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2013, 08:28:09 AM »
As far as I know, the lake of fire is divine judgement.
Micah 7:7

But as for me, I will look to the Lord; I will wait for the God of my salvation; my God will hear me.

Offline eaglesway

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Re: What is the lake of fire
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2013, 09:03:26 AM »
1Co 3:12-13  Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,  (13)  each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.

Mat 3:12  "His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

Rev 1:14  His head and His hair were white like white wool, like snow; and His eyes were like a flame of fire.

Rev 2:18  "And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write: The Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet are like burnished bronze, says this:

Rev 19:11-12  And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war.  (12)  His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself.

Heb 4:12-13  For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.  (13)  And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.

1Co 6:3  Do you not know that we will judge angels?

Luk 8:17-18  "For nothing is hidden that will not become evident, nor anything secret that will not be known and come to light.    "So take care how you listen; for whoever has, to him more shall be given; and whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has shall be taken away from him."

Mar 9:49-50   For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.  Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.

God is light and in him there is no darkness at all

God is love

Our God is a consuming fire

I think the Lake of Fire is a word/image for an experience that cannot yet be put into actual words. I think it is the suspending of the soul in the presence of God(tormented in the presence of God ad His holy messengers)until every hidden thing is brought to the light- anything not already under the blood. His eyes will search "the thoughts and the motives of the heart".

His eyes are as flames of fire. He makes His messengers flames. All things are open to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.






The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Offline ded2daworld

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Re: What is the lake of fire
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2013, 10:04:28 AM »
I agree with EaglesWay. Since hell is cast into the lake of fire, it is proof that "hell" is not eternal nor can it be the lake of fire. :Peace2:
« Last Edit: June 30, 2013, 08:56:54 AM by ded2daworld »
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

Offline micah7:9

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Re: What is the lake of fire
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2013, 03:56:42 PM »
1Co 3:12-13  Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,  (13)  each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.

Mat 3:12  "His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

Rev 1:14  His head and His hair were white like white wool, like snow; and His eyes were like a flame of fire.

Rev 2:18  "And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write: The Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet are like burnished bronze, says this:

Rev 19:11-12  And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war.  (12)  His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself.

Heb 4:12-13  For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.  (13)  And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.

1Co 6:3  Do you not know that we will judge angels?

Luk 8:17-18  "For nothing is hidden that will not become evident, nor anything secret that will not be known and come to light.    "So take care how you listen; for whoever has, to him more shall be given; and whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has shall be taken away from him."

Mar 9:49-50   For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.  Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.

God is light and in him there is no darkness at all

God is love

Our God is a consuming fire

I think the Lake of Fire is a word/image for an experience that cannot yet be put into actual words. I think it is the suspending of the soul in the presence of God(tormented in the presence of God ad His holy messengers)until every hidden thing is brought to the light- anything not already under the blood. His eyes will search "the thoughts and the motives of the heart".

His eyes are as flames of fire. He makes His messengers flames. All things are open to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.
:iagree:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Warhawk17

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Re: What is the lake of fire
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2013, 08:56:51 AM »
Iagree with EaglesWay. Since hell is cast into the lake of fire, it is proof that "hell" is not eternal nor can it be the lake of fire. :Peace2:

I have to say, that was one of the main verses that got me questioning ET. I thought the LOF and Hell were the same thing so when I saw this verse for the first time, I was like WHAT?!?!? That verse opened up a ton of new gates of revelations for me, and I would say that ultimately led me to this site.

Offline lastpost

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Re: What is the lake of fire
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2013, 09:47:10 AM »
In my opinion, the Lake of Fire symbolises the laws of retribution and soul-purification brought into being by God for the raising up of His children.

When the laws of retribution and soul-purification are finished working on the human race throughout the aeons, then the hells created out of these laws interacting with evil are finally dissipated because there are no more souls to purify as the Aeon of aeons will have run its course.
"A few drops of blood renew the whole world, and become for all men that which rennet is for milk, uniting and drawing us into one". "Christ is like leaven for the entire mass, and having made that which was damned one with himself, frees the whole from damnation".

Gregory of Nazianzu

Offline lastpost

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Re: What is the lake of fire
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2013, 12:34:43 PM »
Similarly, as there exists no more souls to have the evil purified, so spiritual death is also ended. Only those who keep His word or saying never see death all through the Aeon as He Himself said, and personally I put more trust in His saying than those of men.
"A few drops of blood renew the whole world, and become for all men that which rennet is for milk, uniting and drawing us into one". "Christ is like leaven for the entire mass, and having made that which was damned one with himself, frees the whole from damnation".

Gregory of Nazianzu

Offline JBerton

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Re: What is the lake of fire
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2013, 06:28:56 PM »
I don't think the lake of fire is a literal fire. The fire is to burn out all of man's works that are not profitable as it says in (1Cor. 3:13-15). In verse 15 it says "if any man's work shall be burned". So we see that it is works that will be burned not the person.  In (Rev.21:8) it speaks about the "fearful, unbelieving, abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, liars, and so forth shall have their part in the lake of fire which is the second death." Again it is not the person who will be hurt in the fire but all of these things.
When all of these things are destroyed it will be the death of sin. Remember what Paul said, if we are dead in Christ then we have died to sin.

Just the way I understand it.


CHB

I suppose that's why man will be judged by his deeds, his works. :thumbsup:
:Book: NEVER STOP SEARCHING! :Chinscratch:

Offline JBerton

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Re: What is the lake of fire
« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2013, 06:35:20 PM »
1Co 3:12-13  Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,  (13)  each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.

Mat 3:12  "His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

Rev 1:14  His head and His hair were white like white wool, like snow; and His eyes were like a flame of fire.

Rev 2:18  "And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write: The Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet are like burnished bronze, says this:

Rev 19:11-12  And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war.  (12)  His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself.

Heb 4:12-13  For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.  (13)  And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.

1Co 6:3  Do you not know that we will judge angels?

Luk 8:17-18  "For nothing is hidden that will not become evident, nor anything secret that will not be known and come to light.    "So take care how you listen; for whoever has, to him more shall be given; and whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has shall be taken away from him."

Mar 9:49-50   For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.  Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.

God is light and in him there is no darkness at all

God is love

Our God is a consuming fire

I think the Lake of Fire is a word/image for an experience that cannot yet be put into actual words. I think it is the suspending of the soul in the presence of God(tormented in the presence of God ad His holy messengers)until every hidden thing is brought to the light- anything not already under the blood. His eyes will search "the thoughts and the motives of the heart".

His eyes are as flames of fire. He makes His messengers flames. All things are open to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.

Awesome insight. Thanks :thumbsup:
:Book: NEVER STOP SEARCHING! :Chinscratch:

Offline JBerton

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Re: What is the lake of fire
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2013, 06:44:31 PM »
I have come to see the second death as a death of the self, or self-will, the "flesh."  Those of us who have overcome the self-will have already died once, and our physical death will be kinda like our second death.  Having died twice, we won't have to die the second death in the lake of fire.  But those who live for self-will will die for the first time when they depart this world.  Then they will still have to die the second death because the "flesh" still has to die.  This will happen in the "lake of fire."  :2c:
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Offline sheila

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Re: What is the lake of fire
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2013, 07:02:49 PM »
something to consider that the Lord revealed....the 'prince' of this world has been judged...

  that his works are evil.....  the prince of this world comes[hour of darkness] and he has nothing

  in me.  Being as all men shall be raised up in Christ..in His incorruptible image..and shall be

 bone of His bone and flesh f His flesh[all men shall bear the image]] 

     I see that judgement as a greaat enlighment ofr those formerly dwelling in darkness..

   those captive all their lives.....the seperating of the soul[that is sinning shall die/old man]

 and thespirit[so the spirit shall be saved on the day of the Lord........[for all her days that

 her husband is alive she is bound..but upon his death she is free to be joined to another]

     

Offline micah7:9

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Re: What is the lake of fire
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2013, 07:59:14 PM »
I have come to see the second death as a death of the self, or self-will, the "flesh."  Those of us who have overcome the self-will have already died once, and our physical death will be kinda like our second death.  Having died twice, we won't have to die the second death in the lake of fire.  But those who live for self-will will die for the first time when they depart this world.  Then they will still have to die the second death because the "flesh" still has to die.  This will happen in the "lake of fire."  :2c:

 :dsunny:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Warhawk17

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Re: What is the lake of fire
« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2013, 03:17:44 AM »
Great insight everyone!  :dsunny: I don't think we know the exact nature of the lake of fire, but we do know that those who are sent there will be there for their ultimate good, not to be tortured forever.