Author Topic: 1Corinthians 15:22 Physically alive or spiritually alive.  (Read 1788 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline UniversalSceptic

  • Full
  • *
  • Posts: 54
  • Gender: Male
1Corinthians 15:22 Physically alive or spiritually alive.
« on: May 19, 2014, 09:30:02 AM »
So we all know what 1Corinthians 15:20 says and that it is interpreted as a spiritual resurrection and not a physical resurrection. My question is can we prove it refers to spiritual and not physical. It is argued that the verse that precedes it sets the tone as referring to a physical resurrection. In other words, all it proves is that everyone will be resurrected, but it doesn't prove that anyone is saved.
Thoughts? Rebuttals?

Offline josh

  • Full
  • *
  • Posts: 69
  • i find the edgar cayce material good 4 bible .....
Re: 1Corinthians 15:22 Physically alive or spiritually alive.
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2014, 10:25:38 AM »
my take would be that
that all will be fully redeemed
when as jesus they put

1Co 15:25  For he must reign, till he hath put >> all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26  The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

so this is what will happen eventually with all human souls
..putting their enemies under their feet...
symbolically THEIR ENEMIES BEING THEIR OWN MAKING THEMSELVES
ENEMIES OF THEIR MAKER BY REJECTING HIS PERFECT WILL
NAMELY IN SEEKING THEIR GOOD ABOVE THE GOOD OF OTHERS
SEPARATING THEIR SURVIVAL SOUL ENERGIES ..NEPHESH
FROM THEIR ETERNAL SOUL ENERGIES ..NESHAMAH
the neshamah aspect stays eternally as one's individual mansion in the kingdom
eventually the oversoul or neshamah is an aspect of what
enables the nephesh to be restored
oh i thought maybe i was limited by
personal text
i see tho i get 6oo characters here
but what if my character is like infinite :)

Online sheila

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 3656
Re: 1Corinthians 15:22 Physically alive or spiritually alive.
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2014, 05:10:17 PM »
...my  :2c:  if your spiritually alive then your'e physically alive and no man ever hated his own flesh

  but feeds and cherishes it.  for if the same spirit that be in Christ be in you..it shall quicken

[cause life] your mortal body.  There be terrestial and celestial bodies...

     'change'   that which is mortal put on immortality......God gives it a body

    the children of the resurrection shall be like the angels

Offline UniversalSceptic

  • Full
  • *
  • Posts: 54
  • Gender: Male
Re: 1Corinthians 15:22 Physically alive or spiritually alive.
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2014, 06:48:59 PM »
Well those beliefs are insightful , it's not really prove nor does it answer the question.

Offline Seth

  • Silver
  • *
  • Posts: 2813
Re: 1Corinthians 15:22 Physically alive or spiritually alive.
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2014, 07:05:44 PM »
We can determine the answer by looking directly at the text very carefully.

1 Cor 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.


Two phrases to take not of there: 1) "so" and 2) "in Christ." The phrase "so", sometimes as "even so" means "in like manner." Do people die "in Adam" spiritually? I would say so. If anyone is "in Adam" physically, that could get messy. It's a spiritual position. To be carnally minded IS DEATH. This is Paul's logic: as being spiritually in Adam, all die, SO, being "in Christ" shall all be made spiritually alive.

Take a look at the following scripture:

2 Cor 15:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.


Hmm....As in Adam all die....even so....IN CHRIST....shall all be made alive. What does that tell us? That for EVERYONE who ever lived, they shall someday be "in Christ." They will be a new creation "in Christ." It doesn't say that they will be made alive BY Christ, does it? What does the Christian Church say about everyone being "in Christ" someday? Nothing. They say unbelievers are going to hell.

Nope. It says, again, "as in Adam, all die, so in Christ all shall be made alive." And if you follow the passage down, it says that Christ shall put everyone under his feet (hupotasso - under submission) and that the last enemy to be destroyed is death, and after that God will be ALL IN ALL.

Does the context limit the "all?" Nope. We are still talking about "as in Adam all die." That's the context. Therefore, we know that God will be ALL in every single human being who ever was dead in Adam. Jesus Christ is the resurrection AND the life.

God does not consider people who are physically animated and self aware to be alive on their own merits. You're only alive by coming into knowledge of Christ and saved from sin. Therefore, the 1 Cor 15 verse encompasses BOTH meanings. Resurrection AND life.

« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 07:52:59 PM by Seth »

Offline UniversalSceptic

  • Full
  • *
  • Posts: 54
  • Gender: Male
Re: 1Corinthians 15:22 Physically alive or spiritually alive.
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2014, 04:11:17 AM »
We can determine the answer by looking directly at the text very carefully.

1 Cor 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.


Two phrases to take not of there: 1) "so" and 2) "in Christ." The phrase "so", sometimes as "even so" means "in like manner." Do people die "in Adam" spiritually? I would say so. If anyone is "in Adam" physically, that could get messy. It's a spiritual position. To be carnally minded IS DEATH. This is Paul's logic: as being spiritually in Adam, all die, SO, being "in Christ" shall all be made spiritually alive.

Take a look at the following scripture:

2 Cor 15:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.


Hmm....As in Adam all die....even so....IN CHRIST....shall all be made alive. What does that tell us? That for EVERYONE who ever lived, they shall someday be "in Christ." They will be a new creation "in Christ." It doesn't say that they will be made alive BY Christ, does it? What does the Christian Church say about everyone being "in Christ" someday? Nothing. They say unbelievers are going to hell.

Nope. It says, again, "as in Adam, all die, so in Christ all shall be made alive." And if you follow the passage down, it says that Christ shall put everyone under his feet (hupotasso - under submission) and that the last enemy to be destroyed is death, and after that God will be ALL IN ALL.

Does the context limit the "all?" Nope. We are still talking about "as in Adam all die." That's the context. Therefore, we know that God will be ALL in every single human being who ever was dead in Adam. Jesus Christ is the resurrection AND the life.

God does not consider people who are physically animated and self aware to be alive on their own merits. You're only alive by coming into knowledge of Christ and saved from sin. Therefore, the 1 Cor 15 verse encompasses BOTH meanings. Resurrection AND life.
So even though we communicated with God through prayer, he doesn't consider us alive at all. I knew we were dead in trespasses, but if we are "dead" how can we communicate with God? As for what you said, can you give me some examples of how we use 'so' in our everyday life and how it relates to the way you said it's defined. That would help me understand it better thanks.

Offline Seth

  • Silver
  • *
  • Posts: 2813
Re: 1Corinthians 15:22 Physically alive or spiritually alive.
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2014, 06:01:44 AM »
So even though we communicated with God through prayer, he doesn't consider us alive at all. I knew we were dead in trespasses, but if we are "dead" how can we communicate with God?

Dead in trespasses is what I am talking about. What does it mean to be "in Adam?" What does it mean to be "in Christ?" They're both spiritual right? If Paul says that all shall be made alive "in Christ," he's speaking spiritually. If believers are "in Christ" today, it's also true that ALL men shall also be someday.

Quote from: UniversalSceptic
As for what you said, can you give me some examples of how we use 'so' in our everyday life and how it relates to the way you said it's defined. That would help me understand it better thanks.

Here are some examples:

1 Peter 3
3Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; 4But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. 5For after this manner (houto) in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands: 6Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.


Comparing the style of modern women to the women of older times. Peter is saying that the modern women should follow the manner of the older women.

Revelation 11:5
And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner (houto) be killed.


In this manner.....

1 Cor 15:22
For as in Adam all die, even so (houto - in this manner) in Christ all will be made alive.

Offline ed

  • 300
  • *
  • Posts: 433
Re: 1Corinthians 15:22 Physically alive or spiritually alive.
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2014, 06:35:31 AM »
This is an interesting question.

We know that the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, gentleness, self control.  All of these things were manifested before Christ came.  People lived by faith before Christ was born in the flesh.

The king was not yet manifest.  The One that brings all things together was not yet glorified.

I think there were still mystics before Christ's glorification.  There was life, and the life belonged to Christ.  Christ is the giver of all life.

I'd like to be able to prove that from the Bible.......................
« Last Edit: May 20, 2014, 03:16:36 PM by ed »

Online sheila

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 3656
Re: 1Corinthians 15:22 Physically alive or spiritually alive.
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2014, 04:44:58 PM »
U S   a few points......for God is kind to the righteous and the wicked...I'm seeing that as kind

 to both the carnal[corrupt image] and regenerated spiritual man.  for if you,being wicked,know how to give

 good gifts unto your children,how much more so,the heavenly Father.

...for my spirit will not always strive with man in that he is 'but' flesh.

   I wouldn't say He doesn't see us...consider Hagar/Ishmael....though typifying the natural man

    she spoke of. ".now I see  Him who see's me."  so yes..He does relate with us even apart

  from the promise seed/spirit.  surely the especially refers unto the spirit/promised seed.

   House of prayer for all nations..and a drawing of all men unto Himself[seed of promise]

   in the day ye eat from it ye shall die...consider the prodigal son...though alive he was

as 'dead' to His father..until his heart returned unto his father[relationship/concord]

  turning the hearts of the children unto the father's,and the hearts of the father's unto the children

       just a few things to consider...

 


Offline eaglesway

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 4144
  • Gender: Male
  • Grace & Peace be multiplied unto you, in Jesus
    • Hell is a Myth.com
Re: 1Corinthians 15:22 Physically alive or spiritually alive.
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2014, 07:35:50 PM »
Looking at the original question of this thread, seems to me that it is a question as to whther resurrection is physical or spiritual.

The idea that 1 Cor. 15:20 is generally interpreted as a spiritual resurrection is not correct in the first place, in my opinion.

As "in Adam all died"(spiritually AND physically) so also "in Christ shall all be made alive".

As Seth pointed out, "so also" meaning, in the same way and to the same extent and in the full scope.

The resurrection spoken of begins we we get "in Christ", by grace through faith, a tru confession of the lips acknowledging Jesus as Lord, and a belief that Jesus was resurrected from the dead- spiritually and physically.

Romans 8 declares the consummation of our sonship to be the resurrection of our bodies, but this is not the point of resurrection, it is the result of a resurrection seed sown in the heart(spiritual resurrection) when we believe and submit.

Paul declared the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ, and the resulting freedom from death and resurection of the body for all men in all his writings and everywhere he preached.

Before the Sanhedrin, where the Pharisees and Saducees disagreed about physical resurrection, "I am on trial for the resurrection of the dead".

In Athens at the Aereopagus, "When they heard about the resurrection of the dead some of them sneered, but others said, "We want to hear you again on this subject".

To the Romans, "Not only the creation, but we ourselves also who have the firstfruits of the spirit, groan inwardly awaiting our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies", and, "If we have been united with him in a death like his we shal be united with him in a resurrection like his", then explaing further, "If the Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He that raised Jesus Christ from the dead will also quicken YOUR MORTAL BODY BY HIS SPIRIT THAT DWELLS IN YOU."

First the spiritual resurrection, then, at the culmination of our deliverance, physical resurrection as a part of the FULL BLOSSOM of spiritual resurrection- they are inseparable.

In 1 Corinthians 15, as with the rest of the New Testament, spiritual resurrection and physical resurrection are ONE. Two sides of one coin, and inextricable from one another as well as inextricable from THE GOSPEL.

The apostles called themselves "witnesses of His resurrection". Without the physical resurrection there is no gospel, it was a core part of the message.
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Offline Seth

  • Silver
  • *
  • Posts: 2813
Re: 1Corinthians 15:22 Physically alive or spiritually alive.
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2014, 07:40:43 PM »
I agree, it's both. For Jesus said. "I am the resurrection AND the life" and Paul said that "life AND immortality" has come to light through the gospel. I personally do not believe that people who are physically resurrected automatically have spiritual "life," but that they will have life when they also hear the gospel and come into the liberty of the sons of God. After all, Lazarus himself was resurrected, but he wasn't "in Christ" yet.

Offline Graph1159

  • Full
  • *
  • Posts: 91
  • Gender: Male
    • Victory of the Eons
Re: 1Corinthians 15:22 Physically alive or spiritually alive.
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2014, 01:50:41 AM »
Here is my understanding of 1 Cor. 15:22:

In the subsequent verse, Paul says that Christ was the firstfruit of those who will be made alive. Was Christ the first person to be resurrected? No; people had been raised from the dead before. But, those people were not completely freed from death, because as soon as they came back to life, their bodies came back under mortality and eventually died again. Christ was the first person to be completely freed from the power of death and mortality.

Thus, it is complete freedom from death, not merely a return to life, that Paul speaks of in verse 22. The ET claim is that people will be resurrected to eternally suffer the Second Death in literal fire, but never actually "die" of it. But I don't think this is the life that Paul speaks of because Christ did not have to rise from the dead in order for people to come back to life only to live under the power of death once again.

Furthermore, Paul writes that death will be abolished (verse 26). He previous said in verse 22 that in Adam all die. However, in verse 51, he wrote that not all of us will die. The ALL who die in Adam must include those who are changed to immortality in verse 51 before physically deactivating. Thus, simply having a pumping heart cannot fulfill the eradication of death spoken of in the chapter.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2014, 01:54:24 AM by Graph1159 »

Offline saintwalee

  • Snr
  • *
  • Posts: 142
  • Gender: Male
  • His Grace, His Faith, Our Salvation.
Re: 1Corinthians 15:22 Physically alive or spiritually alive.
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2014, 03:44:43 AM »
Just wondering UniversalSceptic, did the responses answer your question?  :dontknow: