Author Topic: TT instead of ET?  (Read 6674 times)

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Offline Tom

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Re: TT instead of ET?
« Reply #50 on: May 20, 2015, 02:56:27 AM »
I think the suffering of the unjust will reach its peak at the great white throne while they are judged, but the second death-the lake of fire will actually be a release from suffering.

Offline Tom

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Re: TT instead of ET?
« Reply #51 on: May 20, 2015, 03:31:24 AM »
I believe God breathes spirit into an organic body, and the combination produces sensation or soul. I also believe at death the spirit returns to God, the body returns to the soil, and sensation or soul ceases to exist. That is the true "hell" of the scriptures. Not only did Jesus, but every believer who dies goes to "hell" because "hell" is simply the unseen state of dead souls. That's why Satan doesn't hang out there because he's a spirit being who won't die like mortals. That's also why he doesn't die in the lake of fire where all the unjust mortals will die, but they'll eventually be vivified when death is abolished and reconciled to God just like Satan and his buddies will be because Christ's blood on the cross reconciles all on earth and in the heavens to God. Most folks think Satan is in "hell," but he's actually in heaven until he and his buddies will be cast down to earth. (Revelation 12:9)   

Offline Tom

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Re: TT instead of ET?
« Reply #52 on: May 20, 2015, 03:43:12 AM »
Wow, I wish I could have found this stuff when I was sick for the last couple of weeks. I think I would've felt better right away.

Offline eaglesway

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Re: TT instead of ET?
« Reply #53 on: May 20, 2015, 08:03:43 AM »
I think the suffering of the unjust will reach its peak at the great white throne while they are judged, but the second death-the lake of fire will actually be a release from suffering.

Well, :o)

We are not that far off from each other after all then LOL.

I see the process in a similar way, I just see the suffering more on the lake of fire side of it. "As one passing through the fire"

But the lake of fire, for me is just a word image for the trying, testing, purging of those who are "weighed in the balance and found wanting". The fire I see them passing through, is probably the same judgment you see at the GWT- but I definitely see the release as they come through the fire. As in Rev 14:10 this takes place in the presence of God and His holy angels, the fire is right there proceeding from the throne and the assembly of the holy ones anyway. I certainly dont think the details are given so clearly that we can kno in detail now- but for me, passing through the fire is being at the feet of Jesus, enthroned in the midst of His angels and 10,000s and 10,000s of His holy ones.

Like the seraphim wheels within wheels with eyes all around and in the center beneath the wheels the coals of fire from which one was taken to touch Isaiah.

Woe unto me, I am a man of unclean lips

Here this coal has touched your lips and yur sin is forgiven.

I see that process in Isaiah 6 as representative in micro of the whole judgment thing in macro. Wheels within wheels(ages, times), eyes all around,(7 spirits of God sent over the whole earth, he will send His angels and gather His elect from the four winds, His eyes as flames of fire, seeing into the core of the being), fire touching the lips, the taming of the tongue by the piercing of the heart(everyknee bow, every tongue confess, with the heart, belief, with the tongue confession).

I guess we will have to wait and see LOLOLHAHAHA
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood.

Offline rosered

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Re: TT instead of ET?
« Reply #54 on: May 22, 2015, 07:21:43 PM »

We live and walk in death every day  , to be carnally minded is death    ,    the wisdom of the world is death  . the  blinded minds   by the subentity    of the serpent   This entity is a subentity of itself, due to a loop in the sub entity hierarchy. ..  to the spiritual mind of Christ   being subject to HIM NOW    ... JUDGING    NOW the kings of the earth and their children the princes /judges
In Adam death was what he was walking in  after eating of the tree of knowledge  of good and evil   , He was not walking in the SPIRIT  any longer ...
  The curse come  on the ground  for Adams sake    ,    and we know Eve as  the mother of all the living  ,  she  conceived once and  bore  twice ... two sons      one of the earth and one of the heavens
  the earth one  [a man ] Cain  in anger    because the   ground was cursed ,  killed the spiritual one  Able      the one of faith and herder of sheep and his blood was spilled upon  the earth   as a witness      till all the innocent blood was shed    for the guilty     

 If you can see it   , if you cannot   that fine also that just shows us   where we are in Christ  , alive or dead   , one or the other
 We are one or the other      dead works or living works   Cain was a man and of the dead works     anything of the ground was cursed of God and still is to This Day
 Christ Jesus being the  avenger of all that blood shed from the foundation of the World  was going to put the kings of the earth and their princes     at odds    with HIS  TESTIMONY      [Do not refuse  Him [My Son ] Who speaks from Heaven        ...  no more sacrificing of innocent blood       it is finished
 Death would not reign   in heaven any longer , but the earth   got a double portion    of the curse
  This is why the earth helped the WOMAN      and  swallowed up the dragons flood   of lies
  the old heavens being the tower of Babel  [where she sat as  the QUEEN OF HEAVEN ]  was struck.....   BY THE ROCK   JESUS ,  when the Shepard was    stuck and the sheep scattered   to the ends of the earth     ,   The 3 days   that Christ was in the  heart of the  earth  ... set it on FIRE [Luke 12;49] baptism of the cross
setting the course  for  THE vengeance of Gods     wrath
 in the heart of the earth  dipped in blood ..  those who kill by the same  SWORD  or word will also be killed in the like manner    , this is what will judge us all ...  the letter of the law that kills      but the Spirit gives life ..     we walk in the Spirit by faith not by sight  , the sight of the blind guides [carnal mined ]     are in the pit    in a low place
 not seated with CHRIST IN HEAVENLY PLACES     

  You see Cain  being a man  and of the earth    has the mark of the beast on him  ,   being carnal in mind is death and he killed and   God gave him a mark    being  anyone who kills him  will have vengeance of God on that man sevenfold    ...
 Now its turned around   [AT THE CROSS ]       , Anyone who does not love his brother     and forgive   and show love and mercy    seven times  seventy seven  , does  now  have the wrath of God abiding on him ..
 Because the Law is Spiritual   and no carnal man ever kept the Fiery LAW    OF GOD  , ONLY THE SPIRITUAL MAN    CHRIST BEING THE ONE  and only   
 and anyone who rejects Him rejects GODS LAW    that judges him ,    given by the  HOLY  SPIRIT & FIRE   and those born of the Spirit by the innocent blood   shed from the foundation of the world        as sheep  to the slaughter      ,   BLOOD AND WATER 1 John 5:6
 states, "This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth."      water being the first sign   given   , by 8  lives /souls saved        by the ARK   of the covenant     on the earth   
 the second covenant   being in agreement  WITH   the Son    by the SON   the ark in heaven     Rev 11 The Seventh Trumpet   [   this is the same walls of Jericho    and the 7 trumpets blowing    that the  tower of babel comes down ]       
18"And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath came, and the time came for the dead to be judged, and the time to reward Your bond-servants the prophets and the saints and those who fear Your name, the small and the great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth." 19And the temple of God which is in heaven was opened; and the ark of His covenant appeared in His temple, and there were flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder and an earthquake and a great hailstorm.           for me  I see this as at the CROSS  , everything is centered at the Cross of Jesus Christ        and the    change of garments       from the bloody ones to the washed white ones by the    blood of the Lamb ,       you also must take up the  same cross and follow him for our garments to be changed

 Here is a beautiful    chapter that sums up   well     of Jesus Christ come to do just this  very thing  AT THE CROSS ,  or crossing over   the great gulf fixed 

 HE ALONE IS THE narrow PATH TO THE FATHER   that leads to life   , the GOD OF THE LIVING  , with the new heavens and earth      , as the old rolls up like a garment   [ that old bloody garment ]    scroll     

Psalm 79 English Standard Version (ESV)

How Long, O Lord?
A Psalm of Asaph.

79 O God, the nations have come into your inheritance;
    they have defiled your holy temple;
    they have laid Jerusalem in ruins.
2 They have given the bodies of your servants
    to the birds of the heavens for food,
    the flesh of your faithful to the beasts of the earth.
3 They have poured out their blood like water
    all around Jerusalem,

    and there was no one to bury them.
4 We have become a taunt to our neighbors,
   mocked and derided by those around us.
5 How long, O Lord? Will you be angry forever?
    Will your jealousy burn like fire?
6 Pour out your anger on the nations
    that do not know you,
and on the kingdoms
    that do not call upon your name!

7 For they have devoured Jacob
    and laid waste his habitation.
8 Do not remember against us our former iniquities;
    let your compassion come speedily to meet us,
    for we are brought very low.
9 Help us, O God of our salvation,
    for the glory of your name;
deliver us, and (W)atone for our sins,
    for your name's sake!
10 Why should the nations say,
    "Where is their God?"
Let the avenging of the outpoured blood of your servants
    be known among the nations before our eyes!

11 Let the groans of the prisoners come before you;
    according to your great power, preserve those doomed to die!
12 Return sevenfold into the lap of our neighbors
    the taunts with which they have taunted you, O Lord!
13 But we your people, the sheep of your pasture,
    will give thanks to you forever;
    from generation to generation we will recount your praise.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2015, 10:56:47 PM by rosered »
Jesus is the reward  !!

Offline Pig

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Re: TT instead of ET?
« Reply #55 on: May 23, 2015, 08:13:30 PM »
How do we know those last 2 definitions don't apply?

I assume that all language is related to Hebrew in one way or the other. The original consonants have a metaphoric meaning embedded in our DNA. Yeah, I know I am crazy.

At Babel, the consonants got scrambled, and the secondary metaphor of words got scrambled, but with enough familiarity with Hebrew and another language you can get a sense of how the metaphor was scrambled.  (DG is commanded to chase, dog and fish [dag in Hebrew] have a similar behavior.)

Greek and Hebrew are so closely related that Greeks and Hebrews could talk with each other.

The word βασανίζω from βάσανος  has the Hebrew parallel of  בסנ 'basan' which is 'in the thorns'.

The thorns represent the 'cares of the world'. That phrase has two sides; the things which cause you to care, and the care you give them.

Isaac's ram, representing Christ, was stuck in the thorns because Christ so loved the world.. he cared for the world.

The same thorns made up his crown as symbol that every thought was toward his love for his bride.

The thorns are the cause of our tribulation. Christ did not have to have tribulation if he did not love the world.  And we would not go through fiery trials, smelting, and tribulation if it was not for our cares of the world (in our case the things of the world).  So it is not a torture, but a purification.