Author Topic: Evangel...dichotomy?  (Read 3237 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Seth

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 4359
Re: Evangel...dichotomy?
« Reply #150 on: June 20, 2015, 09:08:31 PM »
I'm as much against Judaizing Jewish Christians as I am Gentile Christians, personally. And of don't think Peter, James or John was doing that. They were encouraging us to love in deed and in truth. I don't call that Judaizing myself.

Tom

  • Guest
Re: Evangel...dichotomy?
« Reply #151 on: June 21, 2015, 01:06:29 AM »
I realize that theology is simply the study of God, and I know we all use labels to identify what we're talking about. The problem isn't theology or labels. The problem is using one school of thought, or theology, to put down another because it doesn't conform to the accepted one. I don't claim to follow any particular brand of theology, and I'm not interested in preaching one or defending one. I'm just interested in what scripture is actually saying. I'm also not interested in debating figurative vs. literal interpretation. I don't expect anybody to see things my way, and I think the feeling should be mutual. I just offer my opinion to things like everybody else here, but I never mean to make anybody feel like what they believe is any less important than what I do. I think we're all on the same level here, and the word of God is the authority.

Offline eaglesway

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 5569
  • Gender: Male
  • Grace & Peace be multiplied unto you, in Jesus
    • Hell is a Myth.com
Re: Evangel...dichotomy?
« Reply #152 on: June 21, 2015, 01:47:41 AM »
I think the important thing is to realize we are unlikely to change one another's minds about our theological presets, so as we discuss and share our views, it is important we stay in patience and gentleness.

But that is nt why we are here anyway.

The site is devoted to sharing the salvation of all, and we have come into it from different backgrounds and with different theological emphasis.

I personally believe the salvation of all is more fundamental than most of the things we discuss. A deeper foundation is Christ Himself, His birth, life. atoning death and resurrection- and His Lordship. Other than that I do not see a deeper foundation stone than the salvation of all.
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. www.hellisamyth.com

Offline bushy

  • Snr
  • *
  • Posts: 153
  • Gender: Male
Re: Evangel...dichotomy?
« Reply #153 on: June 21, 2015, 07:45:28 PM »
One thing I strongly believe is that only people who are insecure about what they believe refuse to hear other viewpoints. We can do nothing against the truth, only for it, so if I believe something, why feel threatened by a different viewpoint? I notice this a lot with the attitude of Christians towards Mormons, for an example. I have heard many Christians talking about being rude and hateful towards Mormons, and gloating about it, as if they have stood up for the truth by slamming the door in their face for preaching "another gospel", but why should we fear them? Would it not be better to invite them in and speak the true gospel to them? Would it not be better to show them some love, rather than act as though even letting them set foot in the door will cause us to rush to the altar of Joseph Smith?

 :iagree:

Offline rosered

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 4460
  • Gender: Female
Re: Evangel...dichotomy?
« Reply #154 on: June 21, 2015, 09:16:35 PM »
One thing I strongly believe is that only people who are insecure about what they believe refuse to hear other viewpoints. We can do nothing against the truth, only for it, so if I believe something, why feel threatened by a different viewpoint? I notice this a lot with the attitude of Christians towards Mormons, for an example. I have heard many Christians talking about being rude and hateful towards Mormons, and gloating about it, as if they have stood up for the truth by slamming the door in their face for preaching "another gospel", but why should we fear them? Would it not be better to invite them in and speak the true gospel to them? Would it not be better to show them some love, rather than act as though even letting them set foot in the door will cause us to rush to the altar of Joseph Smith?

 :iagree:


 I find them in the first of the seven churches and Ephesus , means "permitted"   in Rev 2
 
  I see the 7 churches    as  the race that even we are running  , as Paul  taught  in the WORD  and said he wrangled with the beasts of Ephesus   , being  beastly natured men [carnal babes in Christ ]and your sins are forgiven you for his names sake ..
 
 As   spiritually symbolic   of the beasts hating the whore  [ Babylon ] God has put in in their minds to hate the whore  of the earth and queen of heaven  , being the lies   eating her flesh and burning her with fire 

  again symbolic of  the tongues of fire    speaking against   them and devouring one another
 
  God permits this  but also has the warnings   

  To the Church in Ephesus
2 "To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: messenger  as" a star" in Jesus "right hand of power "  being a light in the darkness of ignorance  that covers the earth in what is the  Will , desire of God  in His Glory" LIGHT OF HIM  "

These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands.

 2 I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked people, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false. 3 You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name, and have not grown weary.

4 Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken the love you had at first.

5 Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. 6 But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

7 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.
 
 I know there is history   about this" time "  and people   as examples
  but we also must learn to discern the "times "   and peoples      as "nothing new under the sun "   exactly the same   natures and waring  as the times of old 

 Gods Word is perpetual  unchanging , meaning occurring repeatedly so frequent as to seem endless and uninterrupted....

  To me more   as signs and  seasons of the same  "exact   things",   that has not changed in human nature  from the beginning
 
 But Gods Word  has not changed towards   this exact    dealing with us  as repeated over and over again , as they progress   individually   
 
 The lampstand removal     to me means the Holy OIL  OR HOLY SPIRIT [5 wise and 5 foolish virgins] in the kingdom ,     from them being that they have fallen from grace     
 
 The grace is the unmerited favor of the Lord    by the   LORD JESUS CHRIST  AS the   tree of Life being the LOVE    and rooted and grounded   in HIM  ,    and I see them as to going back to LAW     as the tree of knowledge of good and evil   ,  which is the ministration of death   

He who lives by the Sword dies by the Sword /WORD OF GOD  ..
 and   there is the other 6 churches    as progression   and the end  , last one is warned not to become   lukewarm/rejected     after all the revelation  in JESUS CHRIST     
This has been my comfort and only sharing    my own personal view    , what I consider   kingdom "treasures "     and  do believe the Holy Spirit is truly   teaching  me
  If you see this as being deceived   and want  no  part of it   ,  it not my place to    judge anyones faith  , The   WORD judges us all      , for real   
 
  WE ARE JUST WITNESSES TO HIS GLORY and the work of His hands   The rewards  are with Him in those seven eyes  " Spirits " of the 7  churches
 also the correction      by those whom he loves and chastens    and corrects   His eyes are on them always      :HeartThrob:
 
Jesus is the reward  !!

Offline ed

  • 500
  • *
  • Posts: 678
Re: Evangel...dichotomy?
« Reply #155 on: June 21, 2015, 10:49:35 PM »
I find them in the first of the seven churches and Ephesus , means "permitted"   in Rev 2
 
  I see the 7 churches    as  the race that even we are running  , as Paul  taught  in the WORD  and said he wrangled with the beasts of Ephesus   , being  beastly natured men [carnal babes in Christ ]and your sins are forgiven you for his names sake ..
 
 As   spiritually symbolic   of the beasts hating the whore  [ Babylon ] God has put in in their minds to hate the whore  of the earth and queen of heaven  , being the lies   eating her flesh and burning her with fire 

  again symbolic of  the tongues of fire    speaking against   them and devouring one another
 
  God permits this  but also has the warnings   

  To the Church in Ephesus
2 "To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: messenger  as" a star" in Jesus "right hand of power "  being a light in the darkness of ignorance  that covers the earth in what is the  Will , desire of God  in His Glory" LIGHT OF HIM  "

These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands.

 2 I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked people, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false. 3 You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name, and have not grown weary.

4 Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken the love you had at first.

5 Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. 6 But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

7 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.
 
 I know there is history   about this" time "  and people   as examples
  but we also must learn to discern the "times "   and peoples      as "nothing new under the sun "   exactly the same   natures and waring  as the times of old 

 Gods Word is perpetual  unchanging , meaning occurring repeatedly so frequent as to seem endless and uninterrupted....

  To me more   as signs and  seasons of the same  "exact   things",   that has not changed in human nature  from the beginning
 
 But Gods Word  has not changed towards   this exact    dealing with us  as repeated over and over again , as they progress   individually   
 
 The lampstand removal     to me means the Holy OIL  OR HOLY SPIRIT [5 wise and 5 foolish virgins] in the kingdom ,     from them being that they have fallen from grace     
 
 The grace is the unmerited favor of the Lord    by the   LORD JESUS CHRIST  AS the   tree of Life being the LOVE    and rooted and grounded   in HIM  ,    and I see them as to going back to LAW     as the tree of knowledge of good and evil   ,  which is the ministration of death   

He who lives by the Sword dies by the Sword /WORD OF GOD  ..
 and   there is the other 6 churches    as progression   and the end  , last one is warned not to become   lukewarm/rejected     after all the revelation  in JESUS CHRIST     
This has been my comfort and only sharing    my own personal view    , what I consider   kingdom "treasures "     and  do believe the Holy Spirit is truly   teaching  me
  If you see this as being deceived   and want  no  part of it   ,  it not my place to    judge anyones faith  , The   WORD judges us all      , for real   
 
  WE ARE JUST WITNESSES TO HIS GLORY and the work of His hands   The rewards  are with Him in those seven eyes  " Spirits " of the 7  churches
 also the correction      by those whom he loves and chastens    and corrects   His eyes are on them always      :HeartThrob:

Lovely rose,

The seven churches is always a good read for the current state of the believer.

You made me hungry to do so.

 :friendstu:


Offline rosered

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 4460
  • Gender: Female
Re: Evangel...dichotomy?
« Reply #156 on: June 21, 2015, 11:34:39 PM »
 

 Blessings Ed , so glad you  can understand  " in this way",   also!!!       :dsunny:
Jesus is the reward  !!

Offline Seth

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 4359
Re: Evangel...dichotomy?
« Reply #157 on: June 22, 2015, 12:15:11 AM »
I realize that theology is simply the study of God, and I know we all use labels to identify what we're talking about. The problem isn't theology or labels. The problem is using one school of thought, or theology, to put down another because it doesn't conform to the accepted one. I don't claim to follow any particular brand of theology, and I'm not interested in preaching one or defending one. I'm just interested in what scripture is actually saying. I'm also not interested in debating figurative vs. literal interpretation. I don't expect anybody to see things my way, and I think the feeling should be mutual. I just offer my opinion to things like everybody else here, but I never mean to make anybody feel like what they believe is any less important than what I do. I think we're all on the same level here, and the word of God is the authority.

I agree with all that, especially the bolded part. :thumbsup:

Offline rosered

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 4460
  • Gender: Female
Re: Evangel...dichotomy?
« Reply #158 on: June 22, 2015, 01:35:42 AM »
I realize that theology is simply the study of God, and I know we all use labels to identify what we're talking about. The problem isn't theology or labels. The problem is using one school of thought, or theology, to put down another because it doesn't conform to the accepted one. I don't claim to follow any particular brand of theology, and I'm not interested in preaching one or defending one. I'm just interested in what scripture is actually saying. I'm also not interested in debating figurative vs. literal interpretation. I don't expect anybody to see things my way, and I think the feeling should be mutual. I just offer my opinion to things like everybody else here, but I never mean to make anybody feel like what they believe is any less important than what I do. I think we're all on the same level here, and the word of God is the authority.

I agree with all that, especially the bolded part. :thumbsup:

  :iagree:   as well  Seth & Tom      :thumbsup:
 
 There are many layers  of" seeing "      Gods Word though,   History  "eye" , and the literal  "eye"    and the Spiritual    "eye"  of understanding and many  depths
 
 His riches are  all  poured   out  for our benefit ....   praise the Lord !!
 
 God bless .. :HeartThrob:
Jesus is the reward  !!

Offline eaglesway

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 5569
  • Gender: Male
  • Grace & Peace be multiplied unto you, in Jesus
    • Hell is a Myth.com
Re: Evangel...dichotomy?
« Reply #159 on: June 22, 2015, 08:23:37 PM »
I realize that theology is simply the study of God, and I know we all use labels to identify what we're talking about. The problem isn't theology or labels. The problem is using one school of thought, or theology, to put down another because it doesn't conform to the accepted one. I don't claim to follow any particular brand of theology, and I'm not interested in preaching one or defending one. I'm just interested in what scripture is actually saying. I'm also not interested in debating figurative vs. literal interpretation. I don't expect anybody to see things my way, and I think the feeling should be mutual. I just offer my opinion to things like everybody else here, but I never mean to make anybody feel like what they believe is any less important than what I do. I think we're all on the same level here, and the word of God is the authority.

Using one school of thought to put down another is just typical religion. Theology in action is the study of God. Theology as a possession is that perspective that each one of us has derived from our study.

I think you present and defend a pretty clear theology- and there is nothing wrong with that. It is your point of view. You and Seth and I post more on general theology than everyone else on the forum combined. Sometimes we discuss, sometimes we debate.

Everyone says, "I am just interested in what the scriptures say"- and I think they are sincere, because none of us arrived at what we believed lightly.

When sincere people disagree with one another there are several obvious possibilities, such as- Some are right about some things and wrong about others and no one is right about everything. Sometimes we do not fully understand one another's positions and terminology. Sometimes we argue two sides of one coin(heads is the truth- no tails is the truth)- but to the extent anyone is in disagreement with what the Spirit is teaching through the scriptures there is one culprit that is always in the mix- and it is our theologies.

The systems of interelating verses we use to present our points of view are inherently theological....

Unless they are spiritual.....

But they clearly all arent, or else we would all agree ;o)

"Debate" is often circular and fruitless anyway. The benefit is that some others may learn the ins and outs of opposing views and make their own conclusions. Debate, for the debaters, is not a "learning mechanism". It is a method of conducting ideological conflict, a war of words. It can be more or less collegial, depending on the rules of the debate.

"Discussion" implies a mutual journey. Conducting a debate in the tone of a discussion is really just a polite, heavily moderated debate. There is not much discussion about theological issues. It quickly becomes debate- and that is ok because the questions are legitimate...the answers are sometimes complex. There may be a little bit of sifting that gets done in the process, but the pattern I have noticed is someone asks a question and then evryone else beats it to death until they can t stand it anymore because the dead body of the question just stinks too much to endure  :laugh:

For that reason we want to try to keep reminding ourselves that these little quarrels are being carried out on every other forum out there. We are here to bring things back to the salvation of all, upon which we all agree- regardless of our other theology.



The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. www.hellisamyth.com