Author Topic: Dead know nothing  (Read 9960 times)

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Offline micah7:9

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Re: Dead know nothing
« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2011, 07:33:37 AM »
read on...read on...to Ecc 12;7....and the dust returns to the ground it came from[mere dirt] AND THE SPIRIT RETURNS TO GOD WHO GAVE IT...


   I AM RETURNING TO MY FATHER AND YOU FATHER.......from now on call no man your father on earth

"THE SPIRIT" it has been brought up before, I understand this "spirit" to be the "breath of life," of Genesis 2:7 God gave us the breath to become a living soul, when we die/quit breathing, our body returns to dust and that breath, the Creator takes back to Himself until the resurrection, that "breath of life," is held in His "time," UNTIL it is needed for His purpose.

I get weary that the Word of God is doubted by those who cannot or will not accept that we will and must die. Our body returns to dust[that body/flesh is in the grave...awaiting] and the very breath that He gave man returns to Him[this is not the spirit as a single soul] He is the Father of spirits, Adam was formed from the dust and the Lord God put the breath of life into that formed clay that adam would be able to carry out God's plan and purpose. Man did not receive a "spirit" but "breath" to become alive as the first human being.
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Dead know nothing
« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2011, 08:00:52 AM »
sheila, so it seems you're suggesting the spirit is something different than "just" breath, and is living in a different realm, as the body returns to dust...

micah, you may have addressed this before, if you have forgive me, and i'll be brief;

how do you address in John 11 when Jesus said "and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"

thanks!   :bigGrin:
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Dead know nothing
« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2011, 08:35:53 AM »
sheila, so it seems you're suggesting the spirit is something different than "just" breath, and is living in a different realm, as the body returns to dust...

micah, you may have addressed this before, if you have forgive me, and i'll be brief;

how do you address in John 11 when Jesus said "and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"

thanks!   :bigGrin:

Jab, are you alive through Christ, all who believe in Jesus are alive. Should we be of the chosen, the sons of God, manifested, those who are called the Overcomer we will not die to the ages; and will be there to judge(1Cor.6:2)  Still, as adam/mankind/human beings, we all have sinned and come short.
Rom 3:23  for all did sin, and are come short of the glory of God--
This being true, and I believe it to be a truth, and if so, then we(all of mankind) must pay for the our wages of our sins. And that debt is death.
The Lord God said it in Genesis 2 and and Jesus said, Joh 12:24  verily, verily, I say to you, if the grain of the wheat, having fallen to the earth, may not die, itself remaineth alone; and if it may die, it doth bear much fruit;

We will die IN Him and we will live In Him; In Him we live! Yet we must pay the wage. Jesus showed us the way. Jesus said said, I lay my life down to die, no one takes it from me, so it is with the sons we lay our life down should we believe we will live. I understand it, I get it. Since I came to understand that EVERYTHING that orthodox religion brings forth and teaches is in error of the truth.
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline sheila

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Re: Dead know nothing
« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2011, 06:27:07 PM »
 ...then we must all pay our wage of sin....you are in error......

   'who is this fellow who speaks blasphemy? Who can forgive sins but God alone?   Jesus knew what they were thinking,and asked,

   "WHY ARE YOU THINKING THESE THINGS IN YOUR HEARTS? WHICH IS EASIER TO SAY,'YOUR SINS ARE FORGIVEN,OR TO SAY

   GET UP AND WALK?   BUT THAT YOU MAY KNOW THAT THE SON OF MAN HAS AUTHORITY ON EARTH TO FORGIVE SINS, HE

  SAID TO THE PARALYSED MAN,'I TELL YOU,GET UP,TAKE YOUR MAT AND GO HOME"


  'everything in orthodox teaching is in error"  wrong again.......His outer garment was divided[four corners of earth]...they parted my garments

    parable of the talents....talents = spiritual truth..........everyone has at least one talent of truth........the unfaithful steward...buried it in

   the earth......did not increase it....this was given to those who were faithful to increase the Lord's interest in the Kingdom.

   to bury something in the earth is to put it to death by carnal/fleshly understanding...obscuring the 'talen of spiritual light"... THE lAMB SLAIN FROM

  THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH[SPIRIT PLACED IN EARTHLY VESSEL]SPIRIT OF GOD=BLAMELESS SPOTLESS LIFE IN SPIRIT POURED INTO DUST

  AND COVERED[DUST EARTH BODY]

    Flesh and blood can NOT inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. IT IS ALL ABOUT THE SPIRIT OF GOD IN MAN...AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT THE SPIRIT

   THE FLESH COUNTS FOR NOTHING.......[A MAN DOES NOT LIGHT A LAMP AND HIDE IT UNDER A BASKET=FLESH DOES HE?]


    hEBREWS 12;23   bUT YOU HAVE COME TO mOUNT ZION,TO THE HEAVENLY jERUSALEM,THE CITY OF THE LIVING GOD. YOU HAVE COME

   TO THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS OF ANGELS IN JOYFUL ASSEMBLY,TO THE CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN,WHOSE NAMES ARE WRITTEN IN HEAVEN

  YOU HAVE COME TO GOD THE JUDGE OF ALL MEN,TO THE 'SPIRITS' OF RIGHTEOUS MEN MADE PERFECT


   A lIFE GIVING 'QUICKENIN'SPIRIT   THE LAMB SLAIN BEFORE THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE EARTH WERE LAID.........

   SPIRIT=SEAMLESS INNER GARMENT....lAMB'S BLOOD IN DUST=[  SPIRIT LIFE SLAIN=PARTED OUTER GARMENTSPLIT HOOF...LIKE SHEEP SKINNED

  AND THROWN ABOUT.]


J    JESUS THE MEDIATOR OF A NEW COVENANT, AND TO THE SPRINKLED BLOOD[SPIRIT] THAT SPEAKS A BETTER WORD THAN THE BLOOD OF ABEL[DUST]

    NOW, THE COMMANDMENT OF GOD WAS UNTO LIFE[ IN THE SPIRIT]   YOUR FLESH HAS NO LIFE IN ITSELF..IT IS THE SPIRIT THAT 'QUICKENS' THE

  MORTAL BODY.....JUST AS A DIRT DEVIL IS DEAD INERT DUST WITH NO LIFE....TIL A WIND VORTEC FORMS IT INTO A SHAPE AND IT BECOMES LIVELY

AND MOVING AND AN OUTWARD EXPRESSION MANIFESTED IN THE SEEN....TIL THE DUST DISSIPATES AND RETURNS TO THE GROUND AS THE WIND GOES

  FORTH ON IT'S JOURNEY........SO,TOO.....THE SPIRIT OF LIFE ANIMATES THE DUSTY FORM OF FLESH IN MAN....


       ELIJAH TAKEN TO HEAVEN IN A WHIRLWIND....THE HORSES AND CHARIOTS[SPIRIT] OF ISRAEL...EVEN THE SPIRIT OF GOD THAT WAS IN ELIJAH

  RETURNING UNTO GOD THAT GIVE IT

Offline Molly

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Re: Dead know nothing
« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2011, 06:34:13 PM »
1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

--Eph 2



[And] "hath raised us up together"

From G4862 and G1453; to rouse (from death) in company with, that is, (figuratively) to revivify (spiritually) in resemblance to: - raise up together, rise with.



We are already made alive and raised up [resurrected] to heaven.  We've ascended to heaven already.  We have died and been resurrected already.

Otherwise, we couldn't and wouldn't believe because we would be the walking dead.

We already died,  Micah, baptized into his death, and we have already been resurrected [spiritually] with him, and now we wait for the full gift to be given to us, to wit the resurrection of the body.



3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7For he that is dead is freed from sin.

--Rom 6



Our new man is free from sin, Micah.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2011, 06:45:40 PM by Molly »

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Dead know nothing
« Reply #30 on: September 24, 2011, 10:57:46 PM »
"Our new man is free from sin, Micah." Molly

AMEN! :dsunny: :ty: :happyclap: AMEN! :happyclap:

That is so true!!! :bigGrin: :bigGrin: :HeartThrob:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Pierac

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Re: Dead know nothing
« Reply #31 on: September 24, 2011, 11:30:28 PM »
sheila, so it seems you're suggesting the spirit is something different than "just" breath, and is living in a different realm, as the body returns to dust...

micah, you may have addressed this before, if you have forgive me, and i'll be brief;

how do you address in John 11 when Jesus said "and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"
thanks!   :bigGrin:

The sheer fact that we do die (That is stop breathing, brain and heart stops functioning), should shed some light on the issue. Martha give us a example when her brother dies...

Joh 11:24  Martha said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day."

Just as Jesus taught...

Joh 6:39  "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.

Joh 6:44  "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

 :thumbsup:
Paul

Offline sheila

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Re: Dead know nothing
« Reply #32 on: September 25, 2011, 12:30:46 AM »
 I TELL YOU THE TRUTH,NO ONE CAN SEE THE KINGDOM UNLESS HE IS BORN AGAIN.   FLESH GIVES BIRTH TO FLESH

  BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES BIRTH TO SPIRIT.....HOW CAN A MAN BE BORN WHEN HE IS OLD[

  THE WIND BLOWS WHEREVER IT PLEASES,YOU HEAR IT'S SOUND,BUT YOU CAN NOT TELL WHERE IT COMES FROM OR WHERE IT IS GOING

  SO IT IS WITH EVERYONE BORN OF THE SPIRIT


   'WE' DIE.?..THE FLESH PROFITETH NOTHING......THE FLESH HAS NO LIFE.....THE LIFE IS IN THE SPIRIT

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Dead know nothing
« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2011, 02:06:17 AM »
 "For in Adam all die…" (I Cor. 15:22.) What then is the only hope of ALL believers who die in Adam? Why the resurrection from the dead, of course. Pathetically and ironically, what most Christians consider a totally useless doctrine, Paul tells us is our only hope of ever living again after we die.

So do we enter eternal life upon death, as Christendom teaches? NO, let's read it:

"So also is the resurrection of the DEAD [notice please, that nowhere in Scripture does it speak of the Christian doctrine of the resurrection of the LIVING, or of the resurrection of the BODY], it is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a SPIRITUAL body… the first Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [that would be Jesus] was made a quickening [living] SPIRIT" (I Cor. 15:42-46)
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline sheila

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Re: Dead know nothing
« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2011, 04:04:10 AM »
 YOU KEEP TALKING ABOUT OLD DEAD ADAM...I'M TALKING ABOUT THE NEW MAN IN CHRIST THE SPIRIT BEGOTTON NEW CREATURE.

  BORN AGAIN FROM ABOVE/SPIRIT

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Dead know nothing
« Reply #35 on: September 25, 2011, 04:06:08 AM »
YOU KEEP TALKING ABOUT OLD DEAD ADAM...I'M TALKING ABOUT THE NEW MAN IN CHRIST THE SPIRIT BEGOTTON NEW CREATURE.

  BORN AGAIN FROM ABOVE/SPIRIT

SO AM I. :HeartThrob:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Molly

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Re: Dead know nothing
« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2011, 05:35:25 AM »
All those who hate me love death. [Prov 8:36]


John 8:51, "If a man keep my sayings, he shall never see death."

John 8:52, At this the Jews exclaimed, "Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that if anyone keeps your word, he will never taste death.


It is the Pharisees and the Jews who didn't believe him, and they are the ones he told would die in their sins.


John 8, 24 That is why I said that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I Am who I claim to be, you will die in your sins."

Offline Molly

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Re: Dead know nothing
« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2011, 05:46:45 AM »
Quote from: Micah
[notice please, that nowhere in Scripture does it speak of the Christian doctrine of the resurrection of the LIVING, or of the resurrection of the BODY]

I've already given you tons of scripture that speak of both, so don't ask me why, but I'll give you one more.


And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.  [Rom 8:23]


We are already saved [sealed with the earnest of the Spirit as a down payment] and will receive the last piece,  our glorified bodies,  at the end of the age [the Last day].  Until then, we will be alive with Christ.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2011, 05:51:29 AM by Molly »

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Dead know nothing
« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2011, 06:03:06 AM »
"I've already given you tons of scripture that speak of both, so don't ask me why, but I'll give you one more."

You have given me NONE that would deny the very Word of God. You may say and interpret  a verse to make you feel secure, but the Word of God says
Gen 2:17 Yet from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you are not to be eating from it, for in the day you eat from it, to die shall you be dying.
 you speak of the Word of God in the OT as something you can throw aside when it fits your will and understanding. We can talk all day about this "spiritual death," which I believe with my whole heart, but that will not stop man from his end. For it is by dying that the wages of his sin is payed. Jesus died for the SIN of the world, He did not die your death.
The wages of your sin is death. If the "spiritual death" of which you speak and I believe in, is the payment for your sins, then
Paul was far from the course of the Gospel.
The old man is dead, crucified with Christ, but you are a human being flesh and blood and flesh and blood cannot enter the Kingdom of heaven. Just how is your BODY of FLESH AND BLOOD ABLE TO ENTER THAT SANCTUARY?
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Molly

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Re: Dead know nothing
« Reply #39 on: September 25, 2011, 06:13:51 AM »
Quote from: Micah
Just how is your BODY of FLESH AND BLOOD ABLE TO ENTER THAT SANCTUARY?

Micah, I know what it says in Gen 2.  But that is the beginning of the story.  We've come a ways since then, don't you think?  Or in other words,

I have already died in Christ and was buried with him and raised with him and am now seated with him in the heavenlies.  This is the gift he's given his people.  And, one day, the gift will be completed with redemption of my body. 

Because of what Christ did, I can boldly go before the throne of God, through a new and living way.  If that's not the sanctuary, the holy of holies, I don't know what is.


22But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

24And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

25See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

--Heb 12


Offline micah7:9

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Re: Dead know nothing
« Reply #40 on: September 25, 2011, 06:29:33 AM »
Yep. No problem with that! :bigGrin: :dsunny: :dsunny:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Dead know nothing
« Reply #41 on: September 25, 2011, 08:06:28 AM »
To those on both "sides" (understanding) of this (and the similar John 11:26 thread) topic;

what do you believe Jesus' death did for us?
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Dead know nothing
« Reply #42 on: September 25, 2011, 08:10:39 AM »
To those on both "sides" (understanding) of this (and the similar John 11:26 thread) topic;

what do you believe Jesus' death did for us?

Joh 1:29  on the morrow John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, `Lo, the Lamb of God, who is taking away the sin of the world;
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Molly

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Re: Dead know nothing
« Reply #43 on: September 25, 2011, 08:34:48 AM »
To those on both "sides" (understanding) of this (and the similar John 11:26 thread) topic;

what do you believe Jesus' death did for us?

Certainly, we work hard and struggle to live a godly life, because we place our confidence in the living God. He is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.[1Tim 4:10]


I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. [1 John 5:13]


He has delivered us from such a deadly peril, and he will deliver us. On him we have set our hope that he will continue to deliver us, [2 Cor 1:10]


.. to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God--[John 1:12]


He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.[Rom 4:25]


he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. [Isa 53:5]




Offline micah7:9

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Re: Dead know nothing
« Reply #44 on: September 25, 2011, 08:44:36 AM »
Very well said! Glory and Amen! :bigGrin:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Dead know nothing
« Reply #45 on: September 25, 2011, 08:46:07 AM »
Very well said! Glory and Amen! :bigGrin:

I've asked this before, but since we have moved off topic, Ill ask again.

When did Jesus Christ die?


Going to bed. I love you all in and through Jesus. God bless and may we all have a safe journey through this night! :dsunny:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Dead know nothing
« Reply #46 on: September 25, 2011, 09:28:56 AM »
To those on both "sides" (understanding) of this (and the similar John 11:26 thread) topic;

what do you believe Jesus' death did for us?

So, to take away our sins, and give us life. 

Amen.
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline Pierac

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Re: Dead know nothing
« Reply #47 on: September 26, 2011, 04:15:20 AM »
To those on both "sides" (understanding) of this (and the similar John 11:26 thread) topic;

what do you believe Jesus' death did for us?

Jesus' death... paid the price for your resurrection from the deadAs the wages of sin is death,...  so if you actually lived on after death in a unbody state. Then the debt has not been paid as you never died, just your body!  Jesus did not die for your physical body to be raised!  He died for your sinning soul! YOU! Your mind and thoughts to continue to exist in a new spiritual body!  :2c:

Paul


Offline thinktank

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Re: Dead know nothing
« Reply #48 on: January 11, 2012, 08:35:14 PM »
I read the saul witch story and noticed that the sons also go the the same place as Samuel was in, I think the kingdom of hades, but maybe inside Abrahams bosom, maybe the gentiles go the other compartment, or perhaps this is the difference. That Israelites continue to live in hades, but non Israelites are not close enough to God to receive live energy and thus do not have life at all and thus do not know anything. In fact the scriptures often makes statements which do not apply to the Isrealites, e.g No man seeeketh the Lord, not one, but yet the prophets did seek the Lord.




« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 08:56:59 PM by thinktank »

Offline sheila

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Re: Dead know nothing
« Reply #49 on: January 11, 2012, 08:54:14 PM »
the sign for Moses..the Lord said 'Put your hand inside your cloak' so Moses put his hand inside his cloak,and when he took it out it was leprous like snow

Now,put it back into your cloak,so Moses put his hand back into his cloak,and when he took it out it was restored.

    we all shall return unto our Father[Bosom position] and be restored..like the above sign..

    This,said the Lord;is so that they may beleive that the Lord,the God of their Father's- the God of Abraham,the God of Isaac,and the God of Jacob

   has appeared to you

   the 'dead' no nothing[what is evil,what is good] because they don't beleive God,or the Son,of whom all knowledge and wisdom dwell.