Author Topic: Works  (Read 93656 times)

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Offline jabcat

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Re: Works
« Reply #1075 on: March 25, 2009, 01:03:38 AM »
I'll put this part back in..."who started this thread, anyway?"  Must've been a dumb guy.  Let's whup'em.
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

martincisneros

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Re: Works
« Reply #1076 on: March 25, 2009, 01:04:49 AM »
It was jabcat that started the thread.  Get a rope! :icon_jokercolor:

Offline Taffy

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Re: Works
« Reply #1077 on: March 25, 2009, 01:13:28 AM »
How long Martin... :laughing7:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Taffy

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Re: Works
« Reply #1078 on: March 25, 2009, 01:18:51 AM »
I am going to stop when the page count equals my age, I'm just helping it along, one more page.
43 , Paul do you want the thread closed now ?,kinda goes agianst the flow some :laughing7:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Works
« Reply #1079 on: March 25, 2009, 01:24:00 AM »


I was caught in a quandry to reply since my announcement of not posting when it reached my age,  but I guess as long as i can post and the thread not hit 45 pages I am still safe from having a double mind.



Offline Taffy

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Re: Works
« Reply #1080 on: March 25, 2009, 02:08:01 AM »


I was caught in a quandry to reply since my announcement of not posting when it reached my age,  but I guess as long as i can post and the thread not hit 45 pages I am still safe from having a double mind.



:icon_king: :Sparkletooth: :icon_flower:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Tony N

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Re: Works
« Reply #1081 on: March 25, 2009, 02:35:16 AM »
Quote
The ripping out of context is all due to immaturity.

Hey Tony  :icon_flower:
I may be quiet right now but I aint dead yet.

Tell Paul that   come Hebrews 11.,,he makes whole DOCTRINAL POINT on FAITH...

Paul who?

Quote
Beg to differ bro....

Begging is not becoming of you  :laughing7:

Quote
as for your comments elsewhere..multiple levels....s :icon_flower:

ya could say the ACT of immaturity IS NOT SEEING THEM.... :icon_king:

Blessing

What do you mean by "different levels"?
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline Taffy

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Re: Works
« Reply #1082 on: March 25, 2009, 02:35:53 AM »
Quote
The ripping out of context is all due to immaturity.

Hey Tony  :icon_flower:
I may be quiet right now but I aint dead yet.

Tell Paul that   come Hebrews 11.,,he makes whole DOCTRINAL POINT on FAITH...

Paul who?

Quote
Beg to differ bro....

Begging is not becoming of you  :laughing7:

Quote
as for your comments elsewhere..multiple levels....s :icon_flower:

ya could say the ACT of immaturity IS NOT SEEING THEM.... :icon_king:

Blessing

What do you mean by "different levels"?

oopps ......the non author of Hebrews :icon_king: :icon_flower:

I beseech a Lot TT :icon_flower:

multiple levels...The SHadow representing  a  higher  :icon_flower: SPIRITUAL understanding....
 :icon_flower:

seems we may have to go throu that NATURAL \spiritual thread all over TT :laughing7:

 :icon_flower:
« Last Edit: March 25, 2009, 02:44:11 AM by Taffy »
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Tony N

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Re: Works
« Reply #1083 on: March 25, 2009, 03:14:52 AM »
multiple levels...The SHadow representing  a  higher  :icon_flower: SPIRITUAL understanding....
 :icon_flower:

seems we may have to go throu that NATURAL \spiritual thread all over TT :laughing7:

 :icon_flower:

You mean SOULISH \spiritual?  :happy3:

It is my understanding that the flesh and the soulish is not able to understand the spirit of the word. It takes God's spirit in a person making that person spiritual in order for the eyes of the heart to see that which is spiritual. No amount of learning will unlock the scriptures without God's spirit.
Spiros Zodhiates is an excellent example of this. He speaks Greek fluently. When writing concerning 1 Corinthians 15:22-28 he says that it is concerning ALL mankind. But in the end, when he gets to 1 Cor.15:28 he hedges and says that "God will be all to the believer He desires to be but will be all to the unbeliever He must be." In other words, in the end, the unbeliever gets the shaft. But this just goes to show that one as well educated as Spiros is, he cannot understand the most simple four words: "God All in all."  It does not say "God all to all."

If spiros had the spiritual eyes of his heart opened up he would be able to believe the "in" of "God all IN all."

Tony
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline Taffy

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Re: Works
« Reply #1084 on: March 25, 2009, 03:35:06 AM »
Seeing it from the soulish and spiritual point bro to be more precise... :icon_flower:

This being the original thought to your post of context, scripture being ripped out etc..

IE- the levels of understanding...Thats all bud...
but im not in conflict to the soulish\spiritual man concept..seems we discussed this a few times TT :winkgrin:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

pneuma

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Re: Works
« Reply #1085 on: March 25, 2009, 04:57:47 AM »
Pauls message was NOT just for the GENTILES and this scripture makes that plainer then the other ones I posted, Tis the same gospel bro.

Concering circumcision Paul said it does not matter whether one be in circumcision or one was not in circumcision.

In other word Paul made NO DISTINCTION between the TWO, which is what a different gospel would be doing.


No distinction between Jew and Gentile IN THE BODY OF CHRIST.

In the body of Christ neither the act of circumcision nor the act of uncircumcision is availing anything.


Hmmm I gave you scripture that shows Paul was also sent to Israel, you just seem to ignore that which you don't like

Acts 9:13-16
13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: 14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name. 15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: 16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

and the children of ISRAEL.

And Bob showed the same principal from the other apostles that the gospel given to them would be preached throughout the whole world, and the gentles are a part of the whole world.

But you are free to beleive what you like Tony, but it does seem contrary to the scripture Bob and I gave.

Offline Tony N

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Re: Works
« Reply #1086 on: March 25, 2009, 04:56:51 PM »
Pauls message was NOT just for the GENTILES and this scripture makes that plainer then the other ones I posted, Tis the same gospel bro.

Concering circumcision Paul said it does not matter whether one be in circumcision or one was not in circumcision.

In other word Paul made NO DISTINCTION between the TWO, which is what a different gospel would be doing.


No distinction between Jew and Gentile IN THE BODY OF CHRIST.

In the body of Christ neither the act of circumcision nor the act of uncircumcision is availing anything.


Hmmm I gave you scripture that shows Paul was also sent to Israel, you just seem to ignore that which you don't like

Acts 9:13-16
13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: 14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name. 15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: 16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

and the children of ISRAEL.

And Bob showed the same principal from the other apostles that the gospel given to them would be preached throughout the whole world, and the gentles are a part of the whole world.

But you are free to beleive what you like Tony, but it does seem contrary to the scripture Bob and I gave.

Dear pneuma, actually I like those verses.
What the Scriptures you brought up don't show is Paul preaching the same message as Peter did in Acts. Just because you found a verse that says Paul was chosen to bear Christ's name before the Gentiles and Jews does not mean he taught the exact same message to both groups.

Not to mention the fact that when Israel was set aside and a door was opened to the nations that Paul was given the evangel OF the Uncircumcision otherwise known as "the Uncircumcision's evangel" (see Galatians 2).

It really shows the shallowness of one's bible study when one cannot see a difference between the evangel of the 12 and that of Paul.
Paul's name is not on the New City Jerusalem. Paul will not be sitting on one of the 12 thrones judging Israel. Paul will not be on the earth during the millennial reign or Christ nor during the new earth age and neither will we of the nations.

For the Jews under the 12 they must repent and be baptized. Under Paul's ministry there is only one baptism (in spirit), not in water and spirit. In Paul's evangel which is given in 1 Corintians 15:1-4 we are just believing, not repenting, not getting baptized in water etc.
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline chuckt

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Re: Works
« Reply #1087 on: March 25, 2009, 05:02:50 PM »
our hope is Christ in us!

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

WOOHOOO. into the celestials/heavenlies. for ever to be with the LORD.


there are many thoughts on this, my thought is, us in this age will be of the celestial kingdom not an earthly kingdom, that is reserved for the earthly nation of Israel.

Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.


Couldnt Jesus had said "" the kingdom is not of this earth but in the heavens"" at this point?

he did say:

Jhn 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.


lots of people use this verse to say there is/will be no kingdom IN this world.

i disagree, at this point, someone change my mind  :grin:



peace
chuckt

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Offline Tony N

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Re: Works
« Reply #1088 on: March 25, 2009, 06:03:37 PM »
chuckt, no need to change your mind. It looks good.

Jesus' kingdom was not based upon the realm of this world of man. It was heavenly in origin in that it comes from God and will be on the earth as Jesus taught His disciples to pray: "Thy kindom COME . . . on earth as it is in heaven."
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline chuckt

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Re: Works
« Reply #1089 on: March 25, 2009, 06:07:35 PM »
chuckt, no need to change your mind. It looks good.

Jesus' kingdom was not based upon the realm of this world of man. It was heavenly in origin in that it comes from God and will be on the earth as Jesus taught His disciples to pray: "Thy kindom COME . . . on earth as it is in heaven."

why do you always bash my posts? im telling Jean  :happy3:  :bgdance:

God bless Tony.


chuckt
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Offline Tony N

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Re: Works
« Reply #1090 on: March 25, 2009, 10:34:44 PM »
Jean Jean the Bible machine?
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

pneuma

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Re: Works
« Reply #1091 on: March 26, 2009, 01:19:41 AM »
Pauls message was NOT just for the GENTILES and this scripture makes that plainer then the other ones I posted, Tis the same gospel bro.

Concering circumcision Paul said it does not matter whether one be in circumcision or one was not in circumcision.

In other word Paul made NO DISTINCTION between the TWO, which is what a different gospel would be doing.


No distinction between Jew and Gentile IN THE BODY OF CHRIST.

In the body of Christ neither the act of circumcision nor the act of uncircumcision is availing anything.


Hmmm I gave you scripture that shows Paul was also sent to Israel, you just seem to ignore that which you don't like

Acts 9:13-16
13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: 14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name. 15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: 16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

and the children of ISRAEL.

And Bob showed the same principal from the other apostles that the gospel given to them would be preached throughout the whole world, and the gentles are a part of the whole world.

But you are free to beleive what you like Tony, but it does seem contrary to the scripture Bob and I gave.

Dear pneuma, actually I like those verses.
What the Scriptures you brought up don't show is Paul preaching the same message as Peter did in Acts. Just because you found a verse that says Paul was chosen to bear Christ's name before the Gentiles and Jews does not mean he taught the exact same message to both groups.

Not to mention the fact that when Israel was set aside and a door was opened to the nations that Paul was given the evangel OF the Uncircumcision otherwise known as "the Uncircumcision's evangel" (see Galatians 2).

It really shows the shallowness of one's bible study when one cannot see a difference between the evangel of the 12 and that of Paul.
Paul's name is not on the New City Jerusalem. Paul will not be sitting on one of the 12 thrones judging Israel. Paul will not be on the earth during the millennial reign or Christ nor during the new earth age and neither will we of the nations.

For the Jews under the 12 they must repent and be baptized. Under Paul's ministry there is only one baptism (in spirit), not in water and spirit. In Paul's evangel which is given in 1 Corintians 15:1-4 we are just believing, not repenting, not getting baptized in water etc.

Like I said Tony your welcome to beleive what you will, just don't exspect me to swallow it.

Offline Tony N

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Re: Works
« Reply #1092 on: March 26, 2009, 02:04:26 AM »
That's o.k. pneuma, you are not required to swallow it. Just absorb it.

Someday you'll see it. It is just not yet time for you.
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline claypot

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Re: Works
« Reply #1093 on: March 26, 2009, 04:09:59 AM »
I respect and owe much to AE Knoch although I see other aspects of the 'Diamond' than what Mr. Knoch taught. The same Diamond just a different view of it.

Tony, you remind me much of AE Knoch.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Works
« Reply #1094 on: March 26, 2009, 05:31:31 AM »
Good words Tony :thumbsup: ... still pondering this issue, plenty to absorb...but I think it's an important one.  We've all still got lots to learn, and I guess until immortality, there'll continue to be a glass we see through darkly...but someday face to face!
« Last Edit: March 26, 2009, 05:35:16 AM by jabcat »
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline chuckt

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Re: Works
« Reply #1095 on: March 26, 2009, 01:36:16 PM »
Jean Jean the Bible machine?


If Jean F Douglas is the bible machine yes, i do know know he read it while on the treadmill  :happygrin:

Blessings
chuckt
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Offline claypot

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Re: Works
« Reply #1096 on: March 26, 2009, 03:33:02 PM »
Tony, I know you may have just been kidding but I want make sure....

You wrote.....

It is my understanding that the flesh and the soulish is not able to understand the spirit of the word. It takes God's spirit in a person making that person spiritual in order for the eyes of the heart to see that which is spiritual. No amount of learning will unlock the scriptures without God's spirit.

then you wrote to Pneuma.......

That's o.k. pneuma, you are not required to swallow it. Just absorb it.

Someday you'll see it. It is just not yet time for you.


Are you saying you have more of the Spirit of God or more direct access to Gods Spirit than Pneuma?

I bring this up because if you are kidding I would say to be careful in how you kid and if you are not kidding, please explain yourself a bit more and why you think God has favored you more than Pneuma.

I have found Pneuma and his words to be very insightful and extremely well thought out and to even suggest he is not guided by the Spirit of God when he writes is a huge accusation. 

Tony, I have asked you before and you did not answer but do you think you are wrong in any of your stated beliefs?

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Tony N

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Re: Works
« Reply #1097 on: March 26, 2009, 05:38:49 PM »
Tony, I know you may have just been kidding but I want make sure....

You wrote.....

It is my understanding that the flesh and the soulish is not able to understand the spirit of the word. It takes God's spirit in a person making that person spiritual in order for the eyes of the heart to see that which is spiritual. No amount of learning will unlock the scriptures without God's spirit.

then you wrote to Pneuma.......

That's o.k. pneuma, you are not required to swallow it. Just absorb it.

Someday you'll see it. It is just not yet time for you.


Are you saying you have more of the Spirit of God or more direct access to Gods Spirit than Pneuma?

I bring this up because if you are kidding I would say to be careful in how you kid and if you are not kidding, please explain yourself a bit more and why you think God has favored you more than Pneuma.

I have found Pneuma and his words to be very insightful and extremely well thought out and to even suggest he is not guided by the Spirit of God when he writes is a huge accusation. 

Tony, I have asked you before and you did not answer but do you think you are wrong in any of your stated beliefs?

cp

If I thought I was wrong about any of my stated beliefs they would not be my stated beliefs, now would they?

Also, no, I wasn't kidding. I'm not saying pneuma is not saved. I'm saying that God has not opened his eyes to the deeper revelation of the two groups of believers in the Scriptures and the two different evangels thereof. One can be a believer and still be soulish and fleshly. A person can have understandings as a minor has and still not have entered into the deeper things of God. Eventually he will get there. In Paul's day some believers of the Corinthians were saying the resurrection was already past. The Galatians were being swayed by some Jewish believers of James that they need to be perfected by doing the law observance. What?! You mean to tell me they were not guided by the spirit of God?! Yep, that is what I'm telling you.

Gal 5:8 "This persuasion is not of Him Who is calling you."
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline claypot

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Re: Works
« Reply #1098 on: March 26, 2009, 05:59:08 PM »
Tony, I know you may have just been kidding but I want make sure....

You wrote.....

It is my understanding that the flesh and the soulish is not able to understand the spirit of the word. It takes God's spirit in a person making that person spiritual in order for the eyes of the heart to see that which is spiritual. No amount of learning will unlock the scriptures without God's spirit.

then you wrote to Pneuma.......

That's o.k. pneuma, you are not required to swallow it. Just absorb it.

Someday you'll see it. It is just not yet time for you.


Are you saying you have more of the Spirit of God or more direct access to Gods Spirit than Pneuma?

I bring this up because if you are kidding I would say to be careful in how you kid and if you are not kidding, please explain yourself a bit more and why you think God has favored you more than Pneuma.

I have found Pneuma and his words to be very insightful and extremely well thought out and to even suggest he is not guided by the Spirit of God when he writes is a huge accusation. 

Tony, I have asked you before and you did not answer but do you think you are wrong in any of your stated beliefs?

cp

If I thought I was wrong about any of my stated beliefs they would not be my stated beliefs, now would they?

Also, no, I wasn't kidding. I'm not saying pneuma is not saved. I'm saying that God has not opened his eyes to the deeper revelation of the two groups of believers in the Scriptures and the two different evangels thereof. One can be a believer and still be soulish and fleshly. A person can have understandings as a minor has and still not have entered into the deeper things of God. Eventually he will get there. In Paul's day some believers of the Corinthians were saying the resurrection was already past. The Galatians were being swayed by some Jewish believers of James that they need to be perfected by doing the law observance. What?! You mean to tell me they were not guided by the spirit of God?! Yep, that is what I'm telling you.

Gal 5:8 "This persuasion is not of Him Who is calling you."

So you are saying God has opened your eyes to the deeper revelation of the two groups of believers and there is no doubt in your mind you are 100% right? Is this what you are saying?

I guess I have learned much through teachers of Gods word who confessed they were still learners too and who more gave me direction in seeking instead of telling me they only had the truth or Spirit of God. To tell you the truth you kind of scare me, not so much for my sake but for those newer learners who may run across your version of things and how you set yourself up.

Just my thoughts and yes, Paul might have scared me too but I think not.

PS: not to offend you but I would not only say Pneuma is saved but I would say he has much of the Spirit of God within and I would say the Spirit of God is moving in Pneumas words on this very thread as I see It is in your words too but in a different way.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Tony N

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Re: Works
« Reply #1099 on: March 26, 2009, 08:22:23 PM »
Tony, I know you may have just been kidding but I want make sure....

You wrote.....

It is my understanding that the flesh and the soulish is not able to understand the spirit of the word. It takes God's spirit in a person making that person spiritual in order for the eyes of the heart to see that which is spiritual. No amount of learning will unlock the scriptures without God's spirit.

then you wrote to Pneuma.......

That's o.k. pneuma, you are not required to swallow it. Just absorb it.

Someday you'll see it. It is just not yet time for you.


Are you saying you have more of the Spirit of God or more direct access to Gods Spirit than Pneuma?

I bring this up because if you are kidding I would say to be careful in how you kid and if you are not kidding, please explain yourself a bit more and why you think God has favored you more than Pneuma.

I have found Pneuma and his words to be very insightful and extremely well thought out and to even suggest he is not guided by the Spirit of God when he writes is a huge accusation. 

Tony, I have asked you before and you did not answer but do you think you are wrong in any of your stated beliefs?

cp

If I thought I was wrong about any of my stated beliefs they would not be my stated beliefs, now would they?

Also, no, I wasn't kidding. I'm not saying pneuma is not saved. I'm saying that God has not opened his eyes to the deeper revelation of the two groups of believers in the Scriptures and the two different evangels thereof. One can be a believer and still be soulish and fleshly. A person can have understandings as a minor has and still not have entered into the deeper things of God. Eventually he will get there. In Paul's day some believers of the Corinthians were saying the resurrection was already past. The Galatians were being swayed by some Jewish believers of James that they need to be perfected by doing the law observance. What?! You mean to tell me they were not guided by the spirit of God?! Yep, that is what I'm telling you.

Gal 5:8 "This persuasion is not of Him Who is calling you."

So you are saying God has opened your eyes to the deeper revelation of the two groups of believers and there is no doubt in your mind you are 100% right? Is this what you are saying?

I guess I have learned much through teachers of Gods word who confessed they were still learners too and who more gave me direction in seeking instead of telling me they only had the truth or Spirit of God. To tell you the truth you kind of scare me, not so much for my sake but for those newer learners who may run across your version of things and how you set yourself up.

Just my thoughts and yes, Paul might have scared me too but I think not.

PS: not to offend you but I would not only say Pneuma is saved but I would say he has much of the Spirit of God within and I would say the Spirit of God is moving in Pneumas words on this very thread as I see It is in your words too but in a different way.

cp

Quote
So you are saying God has opened your eyes to the deeper revelation of the two groups of believers and there is no doubt in your mind you are 100% right? Is this what you are saying?

Yes, 100% right.

cp, I don't believe I have all the truth. Neither did I say I only have the spirit of God. What truth I do have I have confidence in being correct.
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.