Author Topic: Works  (Read 123939 times)

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Offline jabcat

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Re: Works
« Reply #525 on: March 11, 2009, 01:42:07 AM »
I fear God's discipline too much and hopefully love Him enough, to not blatantly, intentionally continually spit in His face. But IMO, that's because He's in me, not my means to get or keep Him in me.... I know I fail and hurt Him, but I confess, He forgives, and re-establishes my steps.  Glory to His name.

I've asked Him to help me understand this, and as I've received of Him, this is how His grace and obedience work together...as I've understood it to this point.

God's blessing, James.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2009, 01:44:29 AM by jabcat »
Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

DaughterofDavid

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Re: Works
« Reply #526 on: March 11, 2009, 01:50:03 AM »
It seems to me, obeying God is evidence of His presence and all that entails in the believer, more so than a means to obtain it.  Tongue and groove  :thumbsup:.  So again, IMO, if I seek Jesus with all my heart, and I abide in Him and Him in me, He will both lead and empower me to do His will...authoring, and finishing.  Focus on losing myself in Jesus, being filled with the Spirit...the fruits of the Spirit are.....

 :thumbsup: :happyclap:

Be blessed my brother!
DaughterofDavid

Offline jabcat

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Re: Works
« Reply #527 on: March 11, 2009, 01:54:22 AM »
I really do appreciate it, and Bless you too, dear sister...Rejoice in this next post with me!  Translation from the Christian Bible (extremely literal, from the Koine Greek) of I John 3:6  "Whoever is continually staying in union with Him, isn't continually doing things that are wrong;  whoever is continually doing things that are wrong, hasn't seen Him or come to know Him.  9  Whoever has been born a child of God, isn't continually doing things that are wrong, because His seed is continually staying in him;  and this person can't continually do things that are wrong, because he has been born a child of God.

Halleluja!
Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Works
« Reply #528 on: March 11, 2009, 02:20:59 AM »
It seems to me, obeying God is evidence of His presence and all that entails in the believer, more so than a means to obtain it.  Tongue and groove  :thumbsup:.  So again, IMO, if I seek Jesus with all my heart, and I abide in Him and Him in me, He will both lead and empower me to do His will...authoring, and finishing.  Focus on losing myself in Jesus, being filled with the Spirit...the fruits of the Spirit are.....

 :thumbsup: :happyclap:

Be blessed my brother!
DaughterofDavid

 :cloud9: Ditto and Amen.... :thumbsup:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

DaughterofDavid

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Re: Works
« Reply #529 on: March 11, 2009, 02:22:40 AM »
I really do appreciate it, and Bless you too, dear sister...Rejoice in this next post with me!  Translation from the Christian Bible (extremely literal, from the Koine Greek) of I John 3:6  "Whoever is continually staying in union with Him, isn't continually doing things that are wrong;  whoever is continually doing things that are wrong, hasn't seen Him or come to know Him.  9  Whoever has been born a child of God, isn't continually doing things that are wrong, because His seed is continually staying in him;  and this person can't continually do things that are wrong, because he has been born a child of God.

Halleluja!

I LOVE IT!!!!

And YES I will REJOICE with you....whewww....what a GLORIOUS LORD we have my brother!
To Yahshua be praised, be MAGNIFIED, be GLORIFIED....To Him alone belongs all the wealth, wisdom, glory and HONOR!!!
 :happyclap: :ginlove: :high5: :dsunny:
Be blessed,
DaughterofDavid


Offline jabcat

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Re: Works
« Reply #530 on: March 11, 2009, 03:12:30 AM »
Rejoice in the Lord always, and again I say rejoice
Rejoice in the Lord always, and again I say rejoice

Rejoice!  Rejoice!  And again I say rejoice!
Rejoice!  Rejoice!  And again I say rejoice!

Rejoice in the Lord always, and again I say rejoice
Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

Offline jabcat

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Re: Works
« Reply #531 on: March 11, 2009, 03:19:44 AM »
Thou art worthy, Thou art worthy
Thou art worthy, O Lord
To receive glory, glory and honour
Glory and honour and power
For Thou hast created, hast all things created
Thou hast created all things
And for Thy pleasure they are created
Thou art worthy, O Lord

1975 Fred Bock Music/Kingsway?s Thankyou Music
Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

Zeek

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Re: Works
« Reply #532 on: March 11, 2009, 03:29:27 AM »


Grace covers our eternal destiny whether or not we believe it is fair that someone who lives in a manner that we disapprove of enjoys that same reward.

Grace does not prevent us from taking the path of destruction.



I question if this is true?  Where do we find in scripture that those taking the wide path/destruction are covered by grace or access it? 

Grace chastens and instructs; and it is accessed through faith; I don't see how grace is for unbelievers.  Unbelievers are not chastised, only sons.  Those outside of accessing grace are bastards.   

I believe LOVE covers us/all of us, as love covers a multitude of sins. 

Can anyone show me where unbelievers access grace too?? 

sincerly searching and pondering this one. 

Pro 10:12  Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.

« Last Edit: March 11, 2009, 03:32:02 AM by Zeek »

Zeek

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Re: Works
« Reply #533 on: March 11, 2009, 03:38:38 AM »
Tit 2:11  For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,


"appeared"

G2014
ἐπιφαίνω
epiphainō
ep-ee-fah'ee-no
From G1909 and G5316; to shine upon, that is, become (literally) visible or (figuratively) known: - appear, give light.

Joh 1:5  And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
 
Joh 1:9  That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
 
Joh 1:10  He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

Joh 1:11  He came unto his own, and his own received him not.


Rom 1:5  By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name;

Rom 5:2  By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Rom 5:17  For if by one man's offense death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)


Seems to me, grace is only covering those who receive it? 


any thots?


Tit 2:12  Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Tit 2:13  Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ;
Tit 2:14  Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Tit 2:15  These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Works
« Reply #534 on: March 11, 2009, 03:53:58 AM »
Hi Zeek.  To me, this moves into that "when is a person saved" area.  I personally (though I know many disagree) believe until God gives the faith to believe to each individual (an individual experience) we are not as yet reconciled to Him, i.e., not yet saved.  So I don't see saving grace operating yet in an unbeliever's life (God still loves them, plans good for them at the consummation, so a "grace" of that sort...not sure what else to call it);  but that they are still awaiting their day of bowing and confessing, their personal gift of belief unto salvation.  And God will bring them to that place, just not yet.  It appears to me many (most?) will be saved through destruction. My  :2c:
Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

Offline sheila

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Re: Works
« Reply #535 on: March 11, 2009, 03:59:47 AM »

  Well,God didn't prevent Adam and Eve from taking a path of

 destruction when they were in the garden.He came immediately

 and spoke of that seed of the woman..that would crush that

 serpents head. He continually cared for them and was merciful

 to them even  while they trod that coarse of destruction..He

 made provision for them[skins]both in their present state and

 for their future deliverance.

   If you want to see the end of something,look at the beginning.

   Now we have been convinced by the Holy spirit that the

   Salvation of ALL is the end of the matter...how anyone could think otherwise or question it , I don't know

  ALL OF ADAM [man] HAVE WALKED THE DESTRUCTIVE PATH

  ALL OF ADAM HAVE AND WILL WALK THE INSTRUCTIVE PATH

     destructive/instructive  sometimes we learn the hard way

   the Holy spirit told me many,many years ago..that I could

listen and learn,or not listen and learn the hard way..

      BUT LEARN I WOULD,ONE WAY OR ANOTHER

   some children will not listen, no matter what you say to them

  and there comes a point when you must let them go in their

  own destructive way[loving them the whole time]...

  and sometimes..when they hit rock bottom..they come

 to a realization..and turn from their destructive coarse..

  and when they turn from destruction..they turn to the ONE

 they know loves them..for support and help and forgiveness

 and strength to overcome their former ways...and for instruction and FORGIVENESS........and

   GRACE AND LOVE TRIUMPHS

Zeek

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Re: Works
« Reply #536 on: March 11, 2009, 04:00:35 AM »
Hi Zeek.  To me, this moves into that "when is a person saved" area.  I personally (though I know many disagree) believe until God gives the faith to believe to each individual (an individual experience) we are not as yet reconciled to Him, i.e., not yet saved.  So I don't see saving grace operating yet in an unbeliever's life (God still loves them, plans good for them at the consummation, so a "grace" of that sort...not sure what else to call it);  but that they are still awaiting their day of bowing and confessing, their personal gift of belief unto salvation.  And God will bring them to that place, just not yet.  It appears to me many (most?) will be saved through destruction. My  :2c:

Interesting that you see saved through destruction as a gift of grace.  More for me to think upon.  I personally see grace as a gift for the firstfruits that can only be accessed by faith.   I see grace as the gift of having one's eyes opened for the purpose of serving.  

got to go for now.  blessings.

z  

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Works
« Reply #537 on: March 11, 2009, 04:03:18 AM »

I question if this is true? 


We are saved by grace, are unbelievers left out of that?


Offline sheila

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Re: Works
« Reply #538 on: March 11, 2009, 04:06:50 AM »

  Jabcat :thumbsup:

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Works
« Reply #539 on: March 11, 2009, 04:14:42 AM »


Ro 5:15 But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.


Offline Cardinal

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Re: Works
« Reply #540 on: March 11, 2009, 04:26:33 AM »
 :cloud9: Sheila....Amen.....He told me the purpose of the HG was to take us to the Father (by way of the cross). He said some would go kicking and screaming, but ALL would go one way or another. Blessings....
« Last Edit: March 11, 2009, 04:44:05 AM by Cardinal »
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline sheila

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Re: Works
« Reply #541 on: March 11, 2009, 04:34:28 AM »


  Cardinal  :thumbsup:

trettep

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Re: Works
« Reply #542 on: March 11, 2009, 05:10:09 AM »
I question if this is true?  Where do we find in scripture that those taking the wide path/destruction are covered by grace or access it? 

Grace chastens and instructs; and it is accessed through faith; I don't see how grace is for unbelievers.  Unbelievers are not chastised, only sons.  Those outside of accessing grace are bastards.   

I believe LOVE covers us/all of us, as love covers a multitude of sins. 

Can anyone show me where unbelievers access grace too?? 

sincerly searching and pondering this one. 

Pro 10:12  Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.



Zeek, we cannot be practicing sin and have Christ.  Unbelievers are not accessing Grace.

Paul

trettep

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Re: Works
« Reply #543 on: March 11, 2009, 05:15:09 AM »

I question if this is true? 


We are saved by grace, are unbelievers left out of that?



Yes, until they have been given it.  Until God gives them the Faith and works to access Grace - it is out of their reach.

Paul

Zeek

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Re: Works
« Reply #544 on: March 11, 2009, 05:25:56 AM »

I question if this is true? 


We are saved by grace, are unbelievers left out of that?



I believe if u look at what grace (the verb does) then yes, unbelievers are left out.  They do not receive the gift and its action. 

But, LOVE covers all. 

All are reconciled through the death, burial and resurrection of the Christ (head and body, those who have received grace,  sons; those who lay down their life for the dead). 

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Works
« Reply #545 on: March 11, 2009, 05:36:02 AM »


Ro 5:15 But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the GIFT BY GRACE, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, HATH ABOUNDED UNTO MANY.



I'll believe scripture, thanks.



Zeek

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Re: Works
« Reply #546 on: March 11, 2009, 05:51:10 AM »


Ro 5:15 But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the GIFT BY GRACE, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, HATH ABOUNDED UNTO MANY.



I'll believe scripture, thanks.




Jas 4:6  But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

and two verses later: 

Rom 5:17  For if by one man's offense death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Rom 11:5  Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.



Again, I don't doubt that grace abounded to many,

Jesus came full of grace and truth:

Joh 1:4  In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Joh 1:5  And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Joh 1:9  That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
 
Joh 1:10  He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.



Rom 1:5  By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name;

« Last Edit: March 11, 2009, 05:53:12 AM by Zeek »

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Works
« Reply #547 on: March 11, 2009, 06:02:49 AM »


I think people are missing the point that the scriptures are making.

It's being said that grace is not for the unbeliever?  Really?

Can an unbeliever be drawn to believe without grace?  No.  It is Grace that will prevent the unbeliever from being in a state of unbelief for eternity.   So Grace is for the unbeliever whether you like it or not.


Zeek

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Re: Works
« Reply #548 on: March 11, 2009, 06:18:14 AM »


I think people are missing the point that the scriptures are making.

It's being said that grace is not for the unbeliever?  Really?

Can an unbeliever be drawn to believe without grace?  No.  It is Grace that will prevent the unbeliever from being in a state of unbelief for eternity.   So Grace is for the unbeliever whether you like it or not.



I disagree (at this time, but am open to change)

I believe it is LOVE that never fails, that covers a multitude of sins.  I personally think that grace is interchanged with love by most, and I dont' see them as the same. 

LOVE wins.  Grace is the gift believers receive through faith that then through the Spirit leads a life of LOVE, laying down your life for another. 

Those who receive grace through faith, lay down their life for the "dead".

The "dead", do not receive grace by faith; but thankfully; the Christ (those full of grace and truth) were baptized for them.   

The "dead" being received is the harvest, the end of the age. 

Those who don't receive grace, die in their sins, naked, ashamed; and through this are saved but through destruction.

Can you show me where in scripture all are saved by grace, even if they don't receive it??   

"abounded", does that mean receive?? 

 

 


trettep

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Re: Works
« Reply #549 on: March 11, 2009, 06:24:29 AM »


I think people are missing the point that the scriptures are making.

It's being said that grace is not for the unbeliever?  Really?

Can an unbeliever be drawn to believe without grace?  No.  It is Grace that will prevent the unbeliever from being in a state of unbelief for eternity.   So Grace is for the unbeliever whether you like it or not.



How is Grace for an unbeliever if only the believers can access it?  Faith is access to Grace.  Faith would exclude the unbeliever and if the unbeliever is excluded then they don't have Grace.  BUT if you disagree then tell me what it means to fall from Grace?  For if all the unbelievers have Grace then how does the unbeliever fall from Grace?

Paul