Hi Nathan just a few comments on some of your posts.
I'm not so sure I'm ready to jump on this "same doctrine" band wagon just yet either. In reading through Acts, you'll see there was a great concern about what Paul was preaching because to the Jews it was a very different doctrine than they believed in. It got so sensitive that Paul had to drop what he was doing, go to Jerusalem and explain to them exactly what he was preaching. And the argument there was, the Jews felt the Gentiles should physically be circumcised and Paul preached that they didn't need to, but the physical circumcision was a practice that only physical Jews followed. But the circumcision that takes place in us is one of a spiritual nature not of a physical.
Yes and that is why Paul said there is no difference between the circumcision and non circumcision. Paul preached the SAME gospel to those of the circumcision as he did to the Gentiles and it was because he did that, that the Jews got up into his face. So if a different gospel or doctrine was to be preached to the 12 tribes what in the world was Paul doing preaching to them the SAME gospel he preached to the Gentiles?
It wasn't what Peter was preaching that was different . .it's what he was "doing" that was in error. He preached that Jews and Gentiles were both accepted and on the same playing field . . . this was a huge paradigm shift because Jews always viewed themselves as "above" everyone else . . .Jesus even came to the Jews "first" and "then" the Gentiles . . .but what Peter preached and what he "did" were two different things . . and "that" is what Paul was rebuking him for.
Nathan what MESSAGE did that send to the Jews. It is not just, what we say that ministers the Gospel it is what we DO also that counts. So by example Peter was indeed preaching a different Gospel then Paul and that is why Paul withstood him and why Peter repented of doing it.
The thread seems to be jumping quite a bit since yesterday but I wanted to respond to this . . .I used to preach the same thing . . . "You're saved by grace, but you maintain that salvation by works . . .." That was my statement . . . makes me cringe to think about it now.
For myself I would not say salvation depends on works as works are the characteristics of our salvation. ( I am speaking of the works of faith) I see the works more as going on to the perfection of our salvation as is spoken to the overcomers.
The Gospel shouldn't be about what one must "do". It's about what has already been done. At least that's where I'm at with all of it.
It should be about BOTH bro for our salvation is assured in Christ but perfection only comes by works which is the evidence of our salvation. Tis why James says faith without works is dead.
This part is addressed to all.
If as Tony states that it is a different gospel or doctrine delivered to the 12 tribes then to the gentiles, then NOTHING Peter, John and the boys write relates to the Gentiles, only Paul's writings would concern them. And Paul's writings would NOT apply to the 12 tribes.
Therefore, Peter, John and the boys writings would NOT PERTAIN to any reading here UNLESS they are of the 12 tribes and NOTHING in Paul's writings would PERTAIN to any here that are of the 12 tribes.
This would create the same DIVISION Paul refuted when people were making the argument about who they were of, some said they were of Peter (and according to Tony's understanding that would have to be of the 12 tribes) others said they were of Apollo and other of Paul ( which again according to Tony can then only be the Gentiles) and Paul refuted this by saying Is Christ DIVIDED.
It is the SAME Gospel, SAME doctrine,SAME baptisem, SAME everything else, for if it is NOT THE SAME then the middle wall of partition has NOT been broken down.
So than if Peter and the boys Gospel is ONLY for the 12 tribes then these scriptures have NOTHING to do with YOU unless YOU are of the 12 tribes.
1 Peter 1:3-7
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: 7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
Yet how many of YOU that are NOT of the 12 tribes has had their faith tried in the fire.
Here another one that would not apply to YOU unless YOU were of the 12 tribes if the Gospel is divided in this way.
1 Peter 2:5
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
YOU CANNOT be one of these LIVELY STONE if this ONLY PERTAINS to the 12 tribes.
For myself I want the WHOLE enchilada spoken throughout the WHOLE of scripture, I don't believe in the this is for me and this is for you division of the Gospel, the Gospel does not set UP divisions it breaks them DOWN.