Author Topic: Will  (Read 23980 times)

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Online dajomaco

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Re: Will
« Reply #125 on: December 09, 2012, 08:52:43 AM »
Glory that is a very dynamic verse.
Full of live. Cheers Molly

Offline Molly

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Re: Will
« Reply #126 on: December 09, 2012, 10:16:30 AM »
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

---Rev 5:9




hâyâh Y'shû‛âh !


I AM  Salvation!


..say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

--Ex 3:14




Isa 12:2     Behold, God [is] my salvation
                 Behold, El Y'shû‛âh
                 Behold, the God of Salvation
                 Behold, Lord Jesus

I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH [is] my strength and [my] song,
 hâyâh Y'shû‛âh !
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 10:56:37 AM by Molly »

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Will
« Reply #127 on: December 10, 2012, 04:33:35 AM »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Will
« Reply #128 on: January 04, 2013, 08:33:06 PM »
Why not just say The Lord? Rom 12:8  or he who is exhorting--`In the exhortation!' he who is sharing--`In simplicity!' he who is leading--`In diligence?' he who is doing kindness--`In cheerfulness.'
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Will
« Reply #129 on: January 05, 2013, 08:34:19 AM »
I am committed to the belief we make choices that matter and we are judged by the choices we make.  I perceive this as reality and am very frustrated about it at times due to the abundance of possibilities and my own inadequacy.  I recognize the will to be the foremost aspect of the soul.  The power of volition, to commit to a position and continue in it regardless of later developments, to choose to love when it no longer makes any sense and I no longer feel like it: this is what makes marriage a covenant.  I find solace and rest from the fact of God's overriding intentions.  He has graciously revealed Himself as, The Savior of All."  He has decided to overcome evil with good.

Yet, an "uninfluenced choice" is a definition of freewill, and it seems a kind of oxymoron.  Not only is the commitment to something without being affected by anything behind many people's "freewill" doctrine, there must also be added the belief that the less influenced we are by anything the greater is our moral excellence.  Both of these conditions of soul are much worse than their opposites.

To make a choice without being impressed of any difference between options is either foolishness or the choice is regarding trivia.  To be externally sheltered from impressions of relative value and to internally regard everything as irrelevant defines a horrible state of mind, one that is ignorant, spoiled, and without authority, rather than a virtuous man.

Intrinsically and extrinsically:  God is the Significance of All Expression.  We should be persuaded by what is behind the appearances of all things what these things are worth.  As well, things are in a world of relatedness to other things.  God is the Measure of All Relationship.  God is the Standard of All Measure.  God's emanations as a constant define the meaning of things.  As Jesus' disciples, we should be impressed and aroused by what we perceive as important.
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Online dajomaco

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Re: Will
« Reply #130 on: January 05, 2013, 09:27:20 AM »
God is the Significance of All Expression

Is it possible for man to express the significance of God?


We should be persuaded by what is behind the appearances of all things,
what these things are worth.


Jesus is behind the appearance of all things. The value of such things
will be measured and weight there value cashed in to the glory of the son,
and Bride is bought.

  .  God is the Measure of All Relationship.

May they all be one, as You, Father, are in Me and I am in You. May they also be one in Us, so the world may believe You sent Me.


Offline ded2daworld

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Re: Will
« Reply #131 on: January 05, 2013, 03:59:14 PM »
Daj,
IMO, you just tacked on an unrelated quote from John chap 17 to make
the previous new age stuff you said sound more scriptural. How about a
scriptural quote that backs up the signifigance and appearance stuff? :Peace2:
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

Offline sheila

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Re: Will
« Reply #132 on: January 05, 2013, 04:49:32 PM »
Ded2....I don't think Reformer is new age at all.  Daj's post was a restating of Reformers post..with a few comments

 added.  In response to Reformer's post .    Is it possible for man to express the signifigance of God?

     I think even the whole creation is His expression..and especially man in His image..

    what's going on with you,Brother?

   

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Will
« Reply #133 on: January 05, 2013, 05:09:46 PM »
i, personally don't know what reformer said?
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline sheila

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Re: Will
« Reply #134 on: January 05, 2013, 05:25:55 PM »
John 1   In the beginning was the  Word..and the Word was with God,and the Word was God. He was with God

  in the beginning. Through Him all things were made,without him nothing was made....

     

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Will
« Reply #135 on: January 05, 2013, 06:11:39 PM »
Reply #36 on: Today at 07:15:26 AM
Quote
"But by that idea, how can anyone understand any term? I am giving very clear definitions of how I view the term, and it is in common with how thousands of others view it and have viewed it for millenia(not to say I am correct or they were, just to say, it is common for the opposing view to present the other view as ridiculous or untenable or without merit or incomprehensible). The same suppositions can be made of the term "sovereignty" which to some people means God controls every thought and action of every being from the beginning to the end, but to others simply means God will cause all things to work together to accomplish His ultimate plan and purpose. Unless we can discuss those shades of meaning and balance the scales of understanding between extreme views then we are just writing "position papers" to one another- IMO, a complete waste of time." EW
SOVEREIGN  1. Supreme in power; possessing supreme dominion; as a sovereign ruler of the universe.
I believe the Lord God is SOVEREIGN.

Supreme In the universe, God only is the supreme ruler and judge. His commands are supreme, and binding on all his creatures. Highest, greatest or most excellent;
I believe that the Lord God is SUPREME
CONTROL 2. To check; to restrain; to govern. Power; authority; government; command.
I believe that the Lord God is in CONTROL.

CAUSE  Cause is a substance exerting its power into act, to make a thing begin to be. To produce; to bring into existence.
I believe the Lord God is the CAUSE of ALL.
I do not see a difference between being the "cause" of all things and being in "control" of all things.

Re: Isa. 14 and Ezk. 28
Reply #33 on: Today at 06:05:45 AM
"It seems to me at some point, since I was only responding to Micah's posts on the "marionette" philosophy of predestination and the creation of evil, that we need to realize that it is glorious that people of all doctrinal persuasio begin to believ in UR, as I do, a proponent of a kind of modified Arminianism- or as some of you do, as Preterists, and modified Calvinists, or WHATEVER :o)

Where is Micah proposing as "marionette" philosophy of predestination?

"It also astounds me that people can speak of this marionette predestination view over and over but as soon as someone uses the term "free will" it sets of a chain reaction, which I think is evidence of a predisposition towards a certain view as if it were PART AND PARCEL WITH UR- which, in my opinion, it is not :o)"

What astounds me is when people want God to be God but won't let God be God; EITHER God started this whole creation and put a symbol of good and evil in full view with an expectation, with full knowledge of how ALL things will work out, or He did not.
As for me, though it has not been given me all the understanding, I stand with the Lord God, who from the very beginning(where ever that is) is
SOVEREIGN...in  CONTROL..and is the CAUSE of ALL THINGS. Col 1:17  and himself is before all, and the all things in him have consisted.  I believe HE can handle all the responsibility and takes full credit for what ever happens in HIS creation.
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline sheila

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Re: Will
« Reply #136 on: January 05, 2013, 06:32:15 PM »
as for the will..it's freedoms..it's restrictions..  it will never supercede the Sovereignty of God over the whole

 creation.  He is a God of 'ORDER" ..therefore there will always be limitations of 'freewill'.  What will be the

  ultimate 'limiting factor' of the Glorious Freedom of the Sons of God?  Love......love restrains what

   causes chaos..Love is freely given and expressed..and love freely restrains what needs be.


  as far as our free will and choices during this exercize of good and evil...I liken it to an individual

education plan..and God the teacher.  He will direct His creatures..teach and lead..through various

  exercize/lesson plans.  It has l not been a 'cookie cutter' type educational system.God loves diversity.

  I can't help but think that His educating of His children..will show forth their various strengths and weaknesses.

 for them to learn and grow from.  Being as He is making man in His image and likeness...He has an

 'idea' as to how He shall go about it..I beleive..   I think 'kicking against the pricks" we will always find

  a hard thing.Pricks of conscience is hard to bear

    Shepherd,Father..are terms of He that leads......  Headship

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Will
« Reply #137 on: January 05, 2013, 06:45:03 PM »
LIMIT The thing which bounds; restraint.  To bound; to set bounds to. To confine within certain bounds; to circumscribe; to restrain.
FREE Being at liberty; not being under necessity or restraint[/u], physical or moral; a word of general application to the body, the will or mind, and to corporations.

Okay I got it man has LIMITED (bounds, restraint, confined) FREE ( not being under necessity or restraint, will. It don't ad up to me. :sigh:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Will
« Reply #138 on: January 05, 2013, 06:53:04 PM »
Re: Isa. 14 and Ezk. 28
Reply #34 on: Today at 06:20:25 AM
Quote
"For instance, James says "God is not tempted by evil, nor does He tempt any man with evil, but everyman is tempted when he is drawn away of his own lust and enticed. Lust conceives sin, sin conceives death."

Did God put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden to tempt Adam and Eve.?Did he tell the adversary to tempt them? Would this not be the greatest hypocrisy in the universe to tell Satan to tempt someone then deny that you ever tempted anyone? Perhaps there is something more to the mystery than a simple black or white doctrine from either perspective?

Was James a fool? Is James not scriptural? Was James decieved? Or was James illuminating "AN ASPECT" of a deep mystery not so simply rendered by man's wisdom?

I think these are honest questions asked by many. The TEMPTATION to force people into our simple answers(Arminian, Calvinist, Preterist, Free Will, Sovereign, Whatever, etc) often obscure ELEMENTS OF TRUTH that God wants all sides to receive :o)"

"Did God put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden to tempt Adam and Eve.?"

No, he did not. That is silly, what a question, you just quoted James, "nor does He tempt any man with evil..." But the Lord God did put the T of K of G and E to test the man He formed to see if
it's purpose would be served. The man had knowledge, but man had nothing to compare that knowledge to, the man was to learn and he did for the Lord God said Gen 3:22  And Jehovah God saith, `Lo, the man was as one of Us, as to the knowledge of good and evil; .......and that's where man is today, having the knowledge of good and evil.

"Did he tell the adversary to tempt them?"
The serpent/adversary was created from the beginning (Jo. 8:44) for the very purpose of deceiving man.

"Would this not be the greatest hypocrisy in the universe to tell Satan to tempt someone then deny that you ever tempted anyone? " If you can ask that question I don't know what to say.

"Or was James illuminating "AN ASPECT" of a deep mystery not so simply rendered by man's wisdom?"  Man's wisdom is a dull blade.
James was not a fool. James is scriptural. James was not deceived.
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline sheila

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Re: Will
« Reply #139 on: January 05, 2013, 06:54:06 PM »
the scriptures are 'chocked full' of positive and negative expierences for us to learn by and serve as examples.

  real life expierences of men and women.  I have seen something done[Samson] like a heart that is in

 apparent opposition[choice of wife] that was in the plan of God for His purpose. I have seen men

 with wrecked lives[Job] for God's purpose....I have seen Pharoah's heart hardened for God's purpose.

  I have seen another Pharoah's heart make Joseph secound in command.  Who is this..that holds

 control over men's hearts for His own purpose.  "the King's heart is in the hand of the Lord" Prvrbs 21;1

  WHO IS THIS...THAT MOVES NEGATIVE/POSITIVE ABOUT AS UPON A CHESSBOARD IN THIS GOOD?EVIL

  EXERCIZE?

  WHO IS THIS THAT FORMS MAN IN HIS IMAGE AND LIKENESS?

Online dajomaco

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Re: Will
« Reply #140 on: January 05, 2013, 08:50:45 PM »
Daj,
IMO, you just tacked on an unrelated quote from John chap 17 to make
the previous new age stuff you said sound more scriptural. How about a
scriptural quote that backs up the signifigance and appearance stuff? :Peace2:

I said Jesus is the signifigance of the appearance of all things.

Ded  if you need me to find you a scriptural quote.
I can
But it would be better for you to act like a Berrian look for your self.

Try in the begining was the word.

As for new age well I don't know what that means unless it means you are mean.



Offline lomarah

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Re: Will
« Reply #141 on: January 05, 2013, 09:11:53 PM »
the scriptures are 'chocked full' of positive and negative expierences for us to learn by and serve as examples.

  real life expierences of men and women.  I have seen something done[Samson] like a heart that is in

 apparent opposition[choice of wife] that was in the plan of God for His purpose. I have seen men

 with wrecked lives[Job] for God's purpose....I have seen Pharoah's heart hardened for God's purpose.

  I have seen another Pharoah's heart make Joseph secound in command.  Who is this..that holds

 control over men's hearts for His own purpose.  "the King's heart is in the hand of the Lord" Prvrbs 21;1

  WHO IS THIS...THAT MOVES NEGATIVE/POSITIVE ABOUT AS UPON A CHESSBOARD IN THIS GOOD?EVIL

  EXERCIZE?

  WHO IS THIS THAT FORMS MAN IN HIS IMAGE AND LIKENESS?

Yes, amen Sheila.
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline sheila

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Re: Will
« Reply #142 on: January 05, 2013, 09:13:55 PM »
 I'd like to share a personal expierence that God took me through in my life. As it pertains to my will..

 and His..being at variance. I was adminstrator/nurse at an adult day care in a small town.

  We had around 20 clients that we rendered services to.

   Well,this being a senior center..at lunch many of the senior citizens would come in to eat,that were not

  in my daycare.Just general public coming in.  There was this man...a nervous high strung fastidious guy....

 that literally rubbed me the wrong way.  He drove me nuts!!  Irritated me to no-end.  Well guess what?

   I got word he was to be a client..that meant I would have to put up with him 40 hours a week. :eek:


        As little as I could have dealings with him..that is what I did[I think he felt the same way about me]

   Well, over the next few weeks and months..something wonderful happened.  I come to love that man

 with a love that I would never had thought possible..and he come to love me dearly,too.


  Now, it was not MY WILL TO LOVE THIS MAN..NOR HIS TO LOVE ME.....But IT WAS GOD'S WILL....
..

      Because of this expierence He took me through..when I read the ten commandments..and the

 Royal Law of Love God with your whole heart mind and body..and your brother as yourself...I KNOW

THAT VERY THING IS WHAT HE IS FORMING AND WILL FORM IN ALL US..WHETHER WE WILL IT OR NOT


   For..WHEN YOU GET DOWN TO THE HEART/TRUTH OF THE MATTER....THIS IS WHERE GOD LIVES

Online dajomaco

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Re: Will
« Reply #143 on: January 05, 2013, 09:28:17 PM »
Love found,
 is a true discovery of the changes the Holy Spirit has been making in our hearts.
New Loves are the result of a refreshing walk with the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit was is such a mystery .I called him comforter. I no longer call
him Mr eeee  I call him Mr.Grace.

 

Offline sheila

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Re: Will
« Reply #144 on: January 05, 2013, 10:24:25 PM »
I've come to the conclusion..that if God should let us have a will contrary to His own...it is for the

express purpose  to allow Him to change it... To show us a better way..a higher way....

  Eventually God is going to choose you..and you are going to choose God.  And your going to be

 very very happy with your choice :laughing7:

Offline sheila

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Re: Will
« Reply #145 on: January 05, 2013, 10:38:35 PM »
Isaaih 57;17  I was enraged with his sinful greed, I punished him and hid my face in anger,

  yet he kept on in his willfull ways. I have seen his ways..BUT I WILL HEAL HIM:  I WILL GUIDE

  HIM AND RESTORE COMFORT TO HIM,CREATING PRAISE ON THE LIPS OF THE MOURNERS

  IN ISRAEL.   Peace,peace to those far and near,says the Lord..'AND I WILL HEAL THEM"

Online dajomaco

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Re: Will
« Reply #146 on: January 06, 2013, 12:31:36 AM »
Ded2....I don't think Reformer is new age at all.  Daj's post was a restating of Reformers post..with a few comments

 added.  In response to Reformer's post .    Is it possible for man to express the signifigance of God?

     I think even the whole creation is His expression..and especially man in His image..

    what's going on with you,Brother?

   

Ded 2 this is the last time I' am going to ask you
Would you please show me specifically what sentence or what word or idea I have posted here that you in your opinion have called
Unscriptural 
Can't be backed up by scripture 
New Age
Makes no sense
and so on.
I know that this is an opinion sharing site.
In my opinion you do the office of Moderator a disservice when you
say a post is unscriptural or you give it a derogatory label.
Then not respond to the inquiry of said post.

Offline Paul L

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Re: Will
« Reply #147 on: January 06, 2013, 01:25:08 AM »

Quote
Ded 2 this is the last time I' am going to ask you
Would you please show me specifically what sentence or what word or idea I have posted here that you in your opinion have called
Unscriptural 
Can't be backed up by scripture 
New Age
Makes no sense
and so on.
I know that this is an opinion sharing site.
In my opinion you do the office of Moderator a disservice when you
say a post is unscriptural or you give it a derogatory label.
Then not respond to the inquiry of said post.

Sounds like a familiar problem. Disagree with a couple of these so-called moderators & they call you names like "immature", "condescending", & a couple other of their favorite quips. Check some of Eagleway's strident language & you'll get a better picture of it all being in the mind of the beholder who look for the sliver in one poster's eye but unable to tend to the 2 x 4 in their own.......

Offline ded2daworld

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Re: Will
« Reply #148 on: January 06, 2013, 01:25:39 AM »
Sorry daj, I don't sit at the computer all day and just got back online.
I stated it was my opinion which I'm entitled to.
All I want to know is where in the Bible do you see Jesus or God
is "the signifigance of the appearance" of all things.
I was a new ager for awhile and that phrase sounds like one of the
purposely obfuscating phrases they use. Mainly, I'm saying I don't understand
what you mean by that phrase.  :dontknow:
God is creater of everything so what IS the significance of the appearance?

and I've been a Berean long enough 40+ years to know that there is nothing like
the phrase "the signifigance of appearance" in any of the 15+ versions I've read through. :Peace2:
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

Offline lomarah

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Re: Will
« Reply #149 on: January 06, 2013, 02:00:08 AM »
I understand the fear of New Age religion ded. And I used to think the same as you. Then God revealed to myself and others many truths that sound very new age. (I am NOT saying that we should embrace New Age religion.) I am just saying that we shouldn't be too quick to reject something just because it sounds too "new age". I bet the Pharisees and others of Jesus' time made the same mistakes. (And hence ultimately rejected Him.)

I'm only speaking from experience and humiliation. :mblush:
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.