Author Topic: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?  (Read 7814 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ChosenofGod37

  • Restricted
  • *
  • Posts: 175
Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« on: August 17, 2009, 06:24:27 PM »
Will there be a second chance for salvation after death?

Answer: While the idea of a second chance for salvation is appealing, the Bible is clear that death is the end of all chances. Hebrews 9:27 tells us that we die, and then face judgment. So, as long as a person is alive, he has a second, third, fourth, fifth, etc. chance to accept Christ and be saved (John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10; Acts 16:31). Once a person dies, there are no more chances. The idea of purgatory, a place where people go after death to pay for their sins, has no biblical basis, but is rather a tradition of the Roman Catholic Church.

To understand what happens to nonbelievers after they die, we go to Revelation 20:11-15 which describes the Great White Throne judgment. Here takes place the opening of the books and "the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." The books contain all the thoughts and deeds of those being judged, and we know from Romans 3:20 that "by the works of the Law is no flesh justified." Therefore, all who are judged by their works and thoughts are condemned to hell. Believers in Christ, on the other hand, are not judged by the books of works, but their names are found written in another book—the "Lamb's Book of Life" (Revelation 21:27). These are the ones who have believed on the Lord Jesus, and they alone will be allowed to enter heaven.

The key to understanding this is the Lamb's Book of Life. Anyone whose name is written in this book was "saved before the foundation of the world" (Ephesians 1:4) by God's sovereign saving grace to be part of His Son's bride, the church of Jesus Christ. These people need no "second chance" at salvation because their salvation has been secured by Christ. He chose us, He saved us, and He will keep us saved. Nothing can separate us from Christ (Romans 8:39). Those for whom He died will be saved because Jesus will see to it. He declared "all that the Father has given me will come to me" (John 6:37), and "I give to them eternal life, and they shall never ever perish, and not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand" (John 10:28). For believers, there is no need for a second chance because the first chance is sufficient.

What about those who do not believe? Wouldn't they repent and believe if they were given a second chance? The answer is no, they would not because their hearts are not changed simply because they die. Their hearts and minds "are at enmity" against God and won't accept Him even when they see Him face to face. This is evidenced clearly in the story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31. If ever someone should have repented when given a second chance to see clearly the truth, it was the rich man. But although he was in torment in hell, he only asked that Abraham send Lazarus back to earth to warn his brothers so they didn't have to suffer the same fate. There was no repentance in his heart, only regret for where he found himself. Abraham's answer says it all: "And he said to him, If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded, even though one rose from the dead" (Luke 16:31). Here we see that the witness of the Scriptures is sufficient for salvation for those who believe it, and no other revelation will bring about salvation to those who do not. No second, third or fourth chances would be enough to turn the heart of stone into a heart of flesh.

Philippians 2:10-11 declares "that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." One day, everyone will bow before Jesus and recognize that He is the Lord and Savior. At that point, though, it is too late for salvation. After death, all that remains for the unbeliever is judgment (Revelation 20:14-15). That is why we must trust in Him in this life.

Resource: Got Questions.org

Look forward to your responses. God bless

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11305
Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2009, 06:29:42 PM »
Personally, I wouldn't want to stand before God without Jesus as my defense lawyer.

It always helps if your lawyer is the son of the judge.

Offline FineLinen

  • 500
  • *
  • Posts: 728
  • Gender: Male
Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2009, 06:31:26 PM »
Our Father's purposes are not based in chance!

You do know in what direction this is going don't you? All things (literally the all/ the ta pavnte) are sourced in the Originator of all, the Living God. We also know that the same ta pavnte is sustained by the Living God..."from Him everything comes, through Him everything exists."

Assuming that the ta pavnte originates in God, and all things are sustained by God, have we the faith to grasp that the same ta pavnte is consummated in God? Is God the Source, the Guide and the Goal of all that is.....With an amen following it!

Quote
From Him everything comes, through Him everything exists, and in Him everything ends.
 


In the Christian story God descends to reascend. He comes down;.... down to the very roots and sea-bed of the Nature He has created. But He goes down to come up again and bring the whole ruined world up with Him. -C.S. Lewis

Offline ChosenofGod37

  • Restricted
  • *
  • Posts: 175
Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2009, 06:32:18 PM »
Amen, to that Molly. :thumbsup: :bgdance:

Offline FineLinen

  • 500
  • *
  • Posts: 728
  • Gender: Male
Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2009, 06:35:31 PM »
Philippians 2:10-11 declares "that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." One day, everyone will bow before Jesus and recognize that He is the Lord and Savior. At that point, though, it is too late for salvation. After death, all that remains for the unbeliever is judgment (Revelation 20:14-15). That is why we must trust in Him in this life.

Resource: Got Questions.org

Look forward to your responses. God bless


http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=1454.0
In the Christian story God descends to reascend. He comes down;.... down to the very roots and sea-bed of the Nature He has created. But He goes down to come up again and bring the whole ruined world up with Him. -C.S. Lewis

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11305
Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2009, 06:40:31 PM »

On the other hand, Rev 20 is not the end of the story--1Cor 15 is--

28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.


--1Cor 15

Offline ChosenofGod37

  • Restricted
  • *
  • Posts: 175
Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2009, 06:44:36 PM »
1 Cor 15:28 teaches that Christ will continue to rule, but He will reign in His former, full, glorious place with the Trinity, subject to God in the way eternally designed for him in Trinitarian Glory.

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11305
Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2009, 06:49:46 PM »
1 Cor 15:28 teaches that Christ will continue to rule, but He will reign in His former, full, glorious place with the Trinity, subject to God in the way eternally designed for him in Trinitarian Glory.

Yes, I can see that.  But, all this nonsense we have to live with now [evil] will be gone because it will all be subdued unto him.


"shall be subdued unto" [him]

G5293
ὑποτάσσω
hupotassō
hoop-ot-as'-so
From G5259 and G5021; to subordinate; reflexively to obey: - be under obedience (obedient), put under, subdue unto, (be, make) subject (to, unto), be (put) in subjection (to, under), submit self unto.


Offline sparrow

  • Bronze
  • *
  • Posts: 1830
  • I watch, & am as a sparrow alone upon the rooftop.
Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2009, 08:00:38 PM »
Cog37, Do you love your enemies?
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline sparrow

  • Bronze
  • *
  • Posts: 1830
  • I watch, & am as a sparrow alone upon the rooftop.
Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2009, 08:08:23 PM »
Hey Sparrow,

What does me loving my enemies have anything to do with salvation after death?

Ok, I'll start a new thread.
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline claypot

  • Bronze
  • *
  • Posts: 1227
  • Gender: Male
Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2009, 08:19:03 PM »
Hey Sparrow,

What does me loving my enemies have anything to do with salvation after death?

May I?

Being Love is the Savior then anyone who needs saving will need Love (God). If anyone needs saving after the death we are talking about here, he or she will need Love to love them. So, cog, being you proclaim yourself to be one of the elect, the few, thus more in tune with God than the majority of us, by asking if you love your enemies we might know if God loves His enemies and thus possibly a salvation after death.

Now that I explained how this question ties in with salvation after death could you please answer the question which is……

Cog, do you love your enemies?

Will await your response and thank you and God bless.

cp

 
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline ChosenofGod37

  • Restricted
  • *
  • Posts: 175
Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2009, 08:27:53 PM »
Cp,

Did you read my thread? If you did, you would know me loving my enemies won't help them after death.

What about those who do not believe? Wouldn't they repent and believe if they were given a second chance? The answer is no, they would not because their hearts are not changed simply because they die. Their hearts and minds "are at enmity" against God and won't accept Him even when they see Him face to face. This is evidenced clearly in the story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31. If ever someone should have repented when given a second chance to see clearly the truth, it was the rich man. But although he was in torment in hell, he only asked that Abraham send Lazarus back to earth to warn his brothers so they didn't have to suffer the same fate. There was no repentance in his heart, only regret for where he found himself. Abraham's answer says it all: "And he said to him, If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded, even though one rose from the dead" (Luke 16:31). Here we see that the witness of the Scriptures is sufficient for salvation for those who believe it, and no other revelation will bring about salvation to those who do not. No second, third or fourth chances would be enough to turn the heart of stone into a heart of flesh.

Offline FineLinen

  • 500
  • *
  • Posts: 728
  • Gender: Male
Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2009, 08:45:22 PM »
There is no chance! No first chance, no second chance, none, nada. Our Father's great plan in the Son of His love is completely in Himself.

It is in Him, and through the shedding of His blood, that we have our deliverance--the forgiveness of our offences--so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him....and you....
In the Christian story God descends to reascend. He comes down;.... down to the very roots and sea-bed of the Nature He has created. But He goes down to come up again and bring the whole ruined world up with Him. -C.S. Lewis

Offline claypot

  • Bronze
  • *
  • Posts: 1227
  • Gender: Male
Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2009, 08:49:43 PM »
Hey I was fair to you. You asked how asking you if you love your enemies relates to being saved after death. I answered and you still did not answer.

Yes or no, cog. Do you love you enemies?

Cp

PS Don't get me on your second 'chance' analogy. You act as if God is a gambler! Ouch, cog, ouch. There is no first chance. God is not a God of chance in any way shape or form.

Cog, do you love your enemies and if you do will there be a time when you will stop loving them?

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline ChosenofGod37

  • Restricted
  • *
  • Posts: 175
Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2009, 08:55:04 PM »
Chance meaning being preached the gospel and being drawn By Him for salvation.

Offline j.

  • Full
  • *
  • Posts: 39
Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2009, 01:26:29 AM »
Isaiah 45:23: "I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear."

Romans 14:11: "For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God."

Phillipians 2:10-11 "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

Please note that it is to the glory of God that "all" will confess that Jesus is Lord. One of the main problems in churchianity is that it has "I" trouble ("I made the decision", "I chose to follow Christ", etc.), when in reality, it in and by Him that we are chosen to believe in this life, and we just reap the benefits of that calling (if we walk in it in the here and now).

Offline Cardinal

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 8431
  • Gender: Female
Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2009, 01:33:44 AM »
 :cloud9: Surely not things both IN and UNDER the EARTH, too?   :winkgrin:  Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline j.

  • Full
  • *
  • Posts: 39
Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2009, 01:41:12 AM »
:cloud9: Surely not things both IN and UNDER the EARTH, too?   :winkgrin:  Blessings....

GASP!!!

You mean "all" really means "all" and not "some"?!?
 
:thumbsup:


Offline Cardinal

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 8431
  • Gender: Female
Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2009, 01:42:57 AM »
 :cloud9: Apparently, it does. Who knew He says what He means and means what He says. I just love that about Him.  :laughing7: Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline FineLinen

  • 500
  • *
  • Posts: 728
  • Gender: Male
Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2009, 04:48:10 AM »
:cloud9: Surely not things both IN and UNDER the EARTH, too?   :winkgrin:  Blessings....

GASP!!!

You mean "all" really means "all" and not "some"?!?
 
:thumbsup:



The New Radical Unbelief Bible

1 Cor. 15:22

"For as in Adam some die, so also in Christ some shall be made alive. But each in his own order; Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming, then comes the end, when He delivers up the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished some rule and some authority and power."

Rev. 5:13

"And some created things that are in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and some things in them, I heard saying, To Him who sits on the throne and the Lamb, be blessing and honour and glory and dominion and power forever."

Col. 1:18-20

"He too is that head whose body is the Church, the Firstborn from the dead, he is to the Church the Source of its life, that in some things He might occupy the foremost place/ to be in some things alone supreme. For it pleased the Father that in him the divine nature in some of its fulness should dwell. And, having made peace through the blood of His cross, by him to reconcile some things unto Himself; by him, I say, whether they be things on earth, or things in heaven. And you that were sometimes alienated..."

Acts 3:20,21

"And He will send Jesus, your destined Christ, yet heaven must retain Him, until the restitution of some things. (when some things are put right)"

1 Cor. 15:28

"And when some things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him that put some things under Him, that God may be some in some."

1 Cor. 15:25,27

"For He must reign until He hath put some enemies under His feet...For He hath put some things under His feet. But when He saith some things are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted, which did put some things under Him."

Romans 11:32

"For God has consigned some men to disobedience that He might have mercy upon some."

Eph. 4:10

"Yea, He who came down is the same who is gone up, far above some heavens, that He might fill some things with His Presence."

John 5:28

"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which some that are in the graves shall hear His voice. Those who have done good will to live and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment."

1 Timothy 2:4

"For this is good and pleasing in the eyes of God our Saviour; who will have some men to be saved and come to an increasing knowledge of the truth."

1 Timothy 2:6

"For there is one intermediary (One who brings God and men together) who gave Himself a ransom in behalf of some to be testified in due time."

Cor. 5:15

"For the love of God overmasters us because we judge that if one died for some, then were some dead; And that His purpose in dying for some was that men, while still in life, should cease to live for themselves, and should live for Him who for their sake died and was raised to life."

Col. 1:16

"For by Him were some things created, of things in heaven and on earth, things seen and things unseen (angels or archangels and some of the powers of Heaven)....some things were created by Him, and for Him (some were made by Christ for His own use and glory.)

John 3:35

"The Father loves the Son, and has given some things into His hand (has given Him control over less than everything). Whoever trusts on the Son possesses eternal life and he who does not obey the Son, God's displeasure hangs over him continually."

Gal. 3:20

"But the Scripture has concluded/consigned some without exception to the custody of sin, in order that the promise by faith in Christ Jesus might be given to those who believe in Him."

Heb. 1:2

"God...hath in these days spoken unto us in His Son who is the predestined Lord of the universe. (whom he has appointed heir of some things)"

2 Cor. 5:14

"For the love of Christ constraineth/overmasters/compels/controls us, and this is the conviction we have reached; if one man died on behalf of some, then some thereby became dead men. Christ died for some, so that being alive should no longer mean living with our own life, but with his life who died for some of us and has risen again."

Heb.8:11

"And they shall not teach some men his neighbor, and some his brother, saying get to know the Lord, for some of them shall know me from small to great. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness..."

Acts 10:36

"The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: He is Lord of some.

Rom. 11:36

"For from him some things come; through Him some things exists; and in him some things end." (For of him and through him, and to him are some things.)

Eph. 4:6

"One Lord, one faith, one baptism. One God and Father of some, who is over some, and works through some, and dwells in some."

Heb. 12:23

"To the festal gathering and Church of the first-born, enrolled as citizens in heaven, and to God the Judge of some men and unto the spirits of righteous ones made perfect."

James 2:10

"For whomsoever shall keep the whole law, but fails in a single point, has become guilty of violating some."

Romans 3:22,23

"..the righteous of God which comes by believing in Jesus Christ. ...For some have sinned/ none have attained the glorious likeness of God/lack the glory that comes from God/ are deprived of the Divine splendour."

John 17:2

"As thou has made him sovereign over some of mankind that he should give aeonios life to as many as thou hast given him."

Romans 9:5

"The patriarchs are theirs and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ. May God who is supreme above some, be blessed throughout the ages."

2 Peter 3:9

"The Lord is not slack/does not loiter/ is not dilatory concerning his promise, according to some people's conception of slowness; but He bears patiently with you, because it is not His will for any to be lost, but for some to come/reach repentance."

Phil. 2:10,11

In order that in adoration of the Name of Jesus some knees will bow themselves and openly acknowledge with joy, in celebration and praise, that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. This profession and confession of His lordship shall be open and freely proclaimed, acknowledged joyfully by some beings in the heavens, by some beings on the earth and by some beings in the underworld.

Please Remember...

All does not radically mean all.

Whole is not whole.

All = Some
In the Christian story God descends to reascend. He comes down;.... down to the very roots and sea-bed of the Nature He has created. But He goes down to come up again and bring the whole ruined world up with Him. -C.S. Lewis

Offline jabcat

  • Admin
  • *
  • Posts: 9088
  • SINNER SAVED BY GRACE
Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2011, 09:17:57 AM »
bump - good info here, about "chances" with God, ta pavnte (ALL), and Radical Unbeliever's Bible.

 :thumbsup:

Offline thinktank

  • Silver
  • *
  • Posts: 2672
Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2011, 10:47:49 AM »
If things are conffesing Jesus under the earth, they must be accepting him when they are in the underworld prison.


Depending on your viewpoint those could mean men or demons. So if they are demons and they are saved, then should'nt all men be saved?

If they are men under the earth, then they must be in the abyss, confessing christ there, which means they can be saved after death.

Offline jabcat

  • Admin
  • *
  • Posts: 9088
  • SINNER SAVED BY GRACE
Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2011, 10:52:27 AM »
 Yessss!  :Yesss:

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 13057
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2011, 10:59:31 AM »
John 20:29
Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

Nobody sees Jesus in this life. So doesn't that verse makes a strong case for after death repentance/conversion?
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Mr.Irrelevant

  • Guest
Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2011, 06:33:00 PM »
"And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this come judgment" (NASB)

It seems to me that this verse - Hebrews 9:27 - may be the most misunderstood verse in the Bible, and it is one of the very few verses that everybody uses to justify the doctrine of "no second chances".

First of all the context of the verse has nothing to do with second chances after death - it's talking about the impossiblity of reincarnation. The writer is contrasting the perpetual sacrifices of human priests with the one sacrifice of the Divine priest, and saying the Christ's sacrifice is superior because He was offered once for all.  If Christ's sacrifice wasn't sufficient for all sins then He would have to keep being sacrificed over and over again.

Secondly, the word here translated "judgment" (krisis) only means a verdict - and the verdict for everyone who is covered by Christ's sacrifice will be "paid in full".

Finally, the writer goes on in Chapter 10 to tell exactly which sins and whose sins are covered by Christ's sacrifice.  Verse 10: "by (God's) will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all"  (So we know everyone will be covered by the sacrifice) Verse 12: "but (Christ), having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time sat down at the right hand of God." (So we know that all of everyone's sins will be covered)

So if every sin that every person has ever committed or will commit is "paid for" by Christ's sacrifice - how could the God of justice send anyone to a place of everlasting torment to pay for those sins again?

So ironically, it turns out that verse most people use to justify their opinion that there's no chance for salvation after death is really part of a great section of scripture in which the author is arguing for the sufficiency of Christ's sacrifice to cover the sins of all people of all time.