Author Topic: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?  (Read 7772 times)

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Offline Molly

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Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2011, 07:01:02 PM »
"And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this come judgment" (NASB)

It seems to me that this verse - Hebrews 9:27 - may be the most misunderstood verse in the Bible, and it is one of the very few verses that everybody uses to justify the doctrine of "no second chances".

First of all the context of the verse has nothing to do with second chances after death - it's talking about the impossiblity of reincarnation. The writer is contrasting the perpetual sacrifices of human priests with the one sacrifice of the Divine priest, and saying the Christ's sacrifice is superior because He was offered once for all.  If Christ's sacrifice wasn't sufficient for all sins then He would have to keep being sacrificed over and over again.

Secondly, the word here translated "judgment" (krisis) only means a verdict - and the verdict for everyone who is covered by Christ's sacrifice will be "paid in full".

Finally, the writer goes on in Chapter 10 to tell exactly which sins and whose sins are covered by Christ's sacrifice.  Verse 10: "by (God's) will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all"  (So we know everyone will be covered by the sacrifice) Verse 12: "but (Christ), having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time sat down at the right hand of God." (So we know that all of everyone's sins will be covered)

So if every sin that every person has ever committed or will commit is "paid for" by Christ's sacrifice - how could the God of justice send anyone to a place of everlasting torment to pay for those sins again?

So ironically, it turns out that verse most people use to justify their opinion that there's no chance for salvation after death is really part of a great section of scripture in which the author is arguing for the sufficiency of Christ's sacrifice to cover the sins of all people of all time.
Thank you for that.

 :goodpost:

Offline jabcat

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Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2011, 10:21:47 AM »
Amen, great post.

Despite all the promises (I'm working on a list of over 100) God made about the ultimate reconciliation/salvation of all, when His judgments end in righteousness, most of Christianity contends that at death in this life "a person's eternal fate is sealed".  Mr. Ir Relevant, you've just discussed how "after this the judgment" doesn't mean what the popular explanation claims.  My  :2c: on it is, OK, yes, there's the judgment.  But thank God for His judgments, because that's the next step in bringing righteousness to the world.  Remember, "for when thy judgments [are] in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness".  (Is. 26:9  KJV)

Where does it say when one dies in this life/age their eternal fate is sealed?  After 50 years "in church" and hearing it and believing it for so many years, I've gotta say I can't find it.  I believe it's an assumption, another orthodox invention.  Also, (this is thrown in for free  :laughing7:) IMO, re: the OP, it's not about chances at all.  It's about the will of God, "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."  I Tim. 2:4   

Beth

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Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2011, 04:27:34 PM »
Quote
"And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this come judgment" (NASB)

It seems to me that this verse - Hebrews 9:27 - may be the most misunderstood verse in the Bible, and it is one of the very few verses that everybody uses to justify the doctrine of "no second chances".

First of all the context of the verse has nothing to do with second chances after death - it's talking about the impossiblity of reincarnation. The writer is contrasting the perpetual sacrifices of human priests with the one sacrifice of the Divine priest, and saying the Christ's sacrifice is superior because He was offered once for all.  If Christ's sacrifice wasn't sufficient for all sins then He would have to keep being sacrificed over and over again.

Secondly, the word here translated "judgment" (krisis) only means a verdict - and the verdict for everyone who is covered by Christ's sacrifice will be "paid in full".

Finally, the writer goes on in Chapter 10 to tell exactly which sins and whose sins are covered by Christ's sacrifice.  Verse 10: "by (God's) will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all"  (So we know everyone will be covered by the sacrifice) Verse 12: "but (Christ), having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time sat down at the right hand of God." (So we know that all of everyone's sins will be covered)

So if every sin that every person has ever committed or will commit is "paid for" by Christ's sacrifice - how could the God of justice send anyone to a place of everlasting torment to pay for those sins again?

So ironically, it turns out that verse most people use to justify their opinion that there's no chance for salvation after death is really part of a great section of scripture in which the author is arguing for the sufficiency of Christ's sacrifice to cover the sins of all people of all time.

This post may be off topic and perhaps I am misunderstanding... Sorry to quote this again, but it is very powerful, but it leaves me wondering how it relates to verses 26 and 27 of chapter 10.

 Hbr 10:26  For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 
 
 Hbr 10:27   But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 

Mr.Irrelevant

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Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2011, 06:46:49 PM »
Hi Beth,

That's a good question.  The answer IMHO is found in the change of subject that happens between verses 18 and 19 of chapter 10.  At that point the author goes from proving that Christ is superior to the angels, Moses, and the Levitical priesthood and begins addressing how that superiority should play out in our lives.

In verses 19-25 he introduces the topic by saying that we should "draw near to God", i.e. be sanctified, by confidently living in our hope and encouraging one another.

In verses 26-31 he addresses what believers should expect if they fail to do so - fiery indignation. I say that he's talking about believers because in verse 26 he says they have the "epignosis" (correct understanding) of the truth, and in verse 29 he refers to them as having been sanctified by the blood of the new convenant.  Note the similiarity between this passage and that in I Corinthians 3:10-17, where Paul is definitely talking to believers.

I believe jabcat is correct when he says above that there is a coming reckoning, even for believers.  Though that reckoning isn't about everlasting punishment, it's about the process of being made holy - which might well include pain.  I used to have a professor who liked to say, "In Christ, God accepts me just as I am, but He loves me too much to leave me this way."

Offline Lefein

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Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2011, 08:47:58 PM »
The grace-gifts and the invitation of God are never revoked, canceled, or withdrawn.  :thumbsup:
CLV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred, it rouses up quarrels, Yet love covers over all transgressions.
KJV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.

Beth

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Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2011, 03:50:27 AM »
Thank you Mr. Irrelevant... I've enjoyed reading your thoughts.  :thumbsup:

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Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #31 on: May 17, 2011, 10:25:31 PM »
Will there be a second chance for salvation after death?

Answer: While the idea of a second chance for salvation is appealing, the Bible is clear that death is the end of all chances. Hebrews 9:27 tells us that we die, and then face judgment. So, as long as a person is alive, he has a second, third, fourth, fifth, etc. chance to accept Christ and be saved (John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10; Acts 16:31). Once a person dies, there are no more chances.
Yep, people die. And they all confess.

ACVPhilippians 2
11 and that every tongue should acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Maybe they make fake confessions to escape hell?
One can only believe such a thing if ones believe is that the HS inspires lies and fake confessions....

ACV1 Corinthians 12
3 Therefore I make known to you, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God says, Jesus is accursed, and no man can say, Jesus is Lord, except by Holy Spirit.

That's very clear I think all who kneel do so because HS dwells within them. So the kneeling is a genuine confession...
But maybe it's to late anyway?

ACVRomans 10
9 that if thou will confess with thy mouth, Lord Jesus, and will believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou will be saved.

Short recap: Everyone will make a true confession and at that point they will be saved. Obviously mrs muslim and mr. satanist never confest in this life. Yet they are part of "everyone".
Ergo there is a chance after death. Ergo salvation after death is a fact for those groups.


Finally all the above are unconditional statements. But if there is still doubt....

ACVIsaiah 45
23 By myself I have sworn, the word has gone forth from my mouth [in] righteousness, and shall not return, that to me every knee shall bow, every tongue will confess to God


:bowing: BTW my auntie had her kneeling session 24-hours ago....  :notworthy:
« Last Edit: May 18, 2011, 07:08:54 AM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline thinktank

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Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #32 on: May 17, 2011, 10:40:04 PM »
God is moving in your familly, soon even the mighty wings will bow to Christ, your doom is soon approaching  :laughing7:

oops I meant your peace  :winkgrin:

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Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #33 on: May 17, 2011, 10:49:16 PM »
Auntie is no longer part of my family. She died last night.
My doom surely is approaching. But I know there will be an happy ending and that counts....
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline thinktank

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Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #34 on: May 17, 2011, 11:40:03 PM »
sorry about your auntie.

 I am not sure what you mean by "my doom is approaching" I hope it's nothing serious.

Peace in Jesus.

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Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #35 on: May 17, 2011, 11:44:08 PM »
Let me summarize it as follows. If God made 10 laws I broke 12 of them.
Gonna watch the inside of my eye lids for a while
Nite.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #36 on: May 17, 2011, 11:49:00 PM »
 :cloud9: Thinktank was correct.......the seed has been dropped. Sorry about your Aunt, though...... :HeartThrob: God bless you and yours.....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline CHB

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Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #37 on: May 18, 2011, 12:28:36 AM »
so sorry for your loss WhiteWings. May you be blessed and the love of peace shine upon you.

CHB

Offline jabcat

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Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #38 on: May 18, 2011, 01:28:48 AM »
:bowing: BTW my auntie had her kneeling session 24-hours ago....  :notworthy:

Blessings to her.

gky

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Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #39 on: May 18, 2011, 10:30:13 PM »

"Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, ..."

I don't understand how ETers see this verse as proving a definitive separation between "saved" and "not saved".
In fact, it's just the opposite.  Reading the words at face value (without Greeking out),

A L L die (whether walking up and alter call or not)
Therefore A L L are judged.
That throws A L L of us back in the same pool.
Too many texts clearly say things like (A L L  have sinned and fall short of the glory of God).
God showing mercy to A L L (in their due time) is what I'm hoping for.  I personally desperately need His mercy even
though I've made multiple (and futile) "decisions" to get "saved", "rededicate", "repent", etc, etc

GKY

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Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2011, 10:49:17 PM »
I agree; but you didn't mention one vital point. Not all, just some, did repent/turn to Jesus before death.
And as very likely know many think repentance must happen before death.
It's not that all die, all sinned and all are judged. It's that most didn't repent on time.

Wel you know my view if you have read reply 31
« Last Edit: May 18, 2011, 10:54:46 PM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

nes

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Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #41 on: May 20, 2011, 10:25:56 AM »
Will there be a second chance for salvation after death?

Answer: While the idea of a second chance for salvation is appealing, the Bible is clear that death is the end of all chances. Hebrews 9:27 tells us that we die, and then face judgment. So, as long as a person is alive, he has a second, third, fourth, fifth, etc. chance to accept Christ and be saved (John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10; Acts 16:31). Once a person dies, there are no more chances. The idea of purgatory, a place where people go after death to pay for their sins, has no biblical basis, but is rather a tradition of the Roman Catholic Church.

Hebrews 9:27 tells us that we will all die, and sometime afterword we will all one day face judgement.  Not face judgement immediately after death.  Going to hades does NOT mean that you've been judged, however it does mean that you're not a believer.  This explains why people are dumped out of hades to stand in front of the great white throne in a resurrection.

Revelation 20:4-6 niv 2010
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.


Notice how it says the rest of the dead?  Guess who the rest of the people are, as said in verse 5?  If you read this whole passage you'll conclude that these rest of the dead are also unbelievers who are brought back to life after 1,000 years from the first resurrection.  It's the dead that will come out of death and hades.  Nobody has been judged yet.

John 5:28-29
 28 "Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.


Don't think john 5:29 means that those who don't confess and swear allegiance but did good things on Earth will rise to live.  All our righteous acts are like dirty rags.  (isaiah 64:6)  Not even those considered righteous by faith in paradise could go to heaven by themselves, instead they stood in paradise until the first resurrection.

I'd like to see where it says no more chances to be saved after death. 

You've put 3 bible verses out, let's see if they say that the dead can't become believers.

John 3:16 - doesn't say it
Romans 10:9-10 - doesn't say it
Acts 16:31 - doesn't say it

Romans 10:13
for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."


Why can't someone in hades call on the name of the lord?

To understand what happens to nonbelievers after they die, we go to Revelation 20:11-15 which describes the Great White Throne judgment. Here takes place the opening of the books and "the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." The books contain all the thoughts and deeds of those being judged, and we know from Romans 3:20 that "by the works of the Law is no flesh justified." Therefore, all who are judged by their works and thoughts are condemned to hell. Believers in Christ, on the other hand, are not judged by the books of works, but their names are found written in another book—the "Lamb's Book of Life" (Revelation 21:27). These are the ones who have believed on the Lord Jesus, and they alone will be allowed to enter heaven.


Revelation 20:15
"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."


So while the dead were judged according to what they have done, they would only be cast in the lake of fire if they weren't written in the book of life. 

Ok, this is going on long enough, I'm just going to quote the rest and make a few comments.

The key to understanding this is the Lamb's Book of Life. Anyone whose name is written in this book was "saved before the foundation of the world" (Ephesians 1:4) by God's sovereign saving grace to be part of His Son's bride, the church of Jesus Christ. These people need no "second chance" at salvation because their salvation has been secured by Christ. He chose us, He saved us, and He will keep us saved. Nothing can separate us from Christ (Romans 8:39). Those for whom He died will be saved because Jesus will see to it. He declared "all that the Father has given me will come to me" (John 6:37), and "I give to them eternal life, and they shall never ever perish, and not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand" (John 10:28). For believers, there is no need for a second chance because the first chance is sufficient.

What about those who do not believe? Wouldn't they repent and believe if they were given a second chance? The answer is no, they would not because their hearts are not changed simply because they die. Their hearts and minds "are at enmity" against God and won't accept Him even when they see Him face to face. This is evidenced clearly in the story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31. If ever someone should have repented when given a second chance to see clearly the truth, it was the rich man. But although he was in torment in hell, he only asked that Abraham send Lazarus back to earth to warn his brothers so they didn't have to suffer the same fate. There was no repentance in his heart, only regret for where he found himself. Abraham's answer says it all: "And he said to him, If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded, even though one rose from the dead" (Luke 16:31). Here we see that the witness of the Scriptures is sufficient for salvation for those who believe it, and no other revelation will bring about salvation to those who do not. No second, third or fourth chances would be enough to turn the heart of stone into a heart of flesh.

Philippians 2:10-11 declares "that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." One day, everyone will bow before Jesus and recognize that He is the Lord and Savior. At that point, though, it is too late for salvation. After death, all that remains for the unbeliever is judgment (Revelation 20:14-15). That is why we must trust in Him in this life.

Resource: Got Questions.org

Look forward to your responses. God bless

So you say people in hades have no hope for a second chance?
Why did jesus preach to those in hades?  To those who disobeyed?

1 Peter 3:18-20 esv
18For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, 20because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.


The rich man and Lazarus is highly likely to be a parable anyways, just look at the chapter before the lazarus story, chapter 15.  There you'll see 3 parables in chapter 15 and even this verse:

Luke 15:3
So he told them this parable


Even so, Jesus wasn't there to save Lazarus at the time.  He didn't have the option to call out to jesus, eat his bread, and drink his blood.  And even Lazarus himself apparently wasn't persuaded by moses and the prophets because he's in hades instead of paradise.  Yet, he became persuaded once in hades.  So Luke 16:31 might simply say that people in general won't become persuaded if they reject moses and the prophets while in Earth, but that doesn't mean that they can't be persuaded while in the afterlife.

Now for another parable showing that jesus is strategic in getting people to heaven.


Matthew 13:24-30
 24 Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

   27 "The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'

   28 "'An enemy did this,' he replied.

   "The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'

   29 "'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.'"


As for what happens during judgement, it might be that judgement before the great white throne isn't just an opening of the books after all.

Matthew 11:20-24
20 Then he began to denounce the cities where most of his mighty works had been done, because they did not repent. 21 "Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 But I tell you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for Tyre and Sidon than for you. 23And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? You will be brought down to Hades. For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. 24 But I tell you that it will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom than for you."


So what this shows above is that judgement day itself will be more tolerable for some than others, based on what people have done.  I'm not saying that people will go to heaven had they've done more good things than bad, what I'm saying is that somehow what people will experience will be worse on judgement day had they heard the truth of jesus than those who never heard of him. 

Exod. 32:31-34
31So Moses returned to the LORD and said, "Alas, this people has sinned a great sin. They have made for themselves gods of gold. 32But now, if you will forgive their sin—but if not, please blot me out of your book that you have written." 33But the LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against me, I will blot out of my book. 34 But now go, lead the people to the place about which I have spoken to you; behold, my angel shall go before you. Nevertheless, in the day when I visit, I will visit their sin upon them."


The book here is called the book of life in revelations.  So once somebody has sinned, they are blotted out of the book and that person will not be written on the book again, so how in the world does anybody get added back on?  No second chances right?  When you believe, you are reborn.  You become a whole different person with another name under god's eyes, this is how I believe jesus saves us.  However, we don't get the benefits of this until we die, we receive the holy spirit as a deposit guaranteeing what's to come (2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5, Ephesians 1:13,14, Ephesians 4:30).

Believers on Earth in actuality don't act like jesus.  They aren't governed by the new heart and spirit given to them, they instead are still trapped in the corrupt flesh.

James 3:8
8but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison.


1John 1:8
8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.


Romans 7:18-25
18For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.

 21So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.


IMHO our flesh cannot submit to god's laws.  We must first die, then as believers we won't have the flesh causing desires for us to sin.  Believers still lust like nonbelievers while on Earth.

john 3:3
3Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."


Revelation 3:5 All who are victorious will be clothed in white. I will never erase their names from the Book of Life, but I will announce before my Father and his angels that they are mine.

It does say that every knee will bow and acknowledge god before the lord, who is jesus.  And there doesn't seem to be any translation issues with this.  (Romans 14:11-12, Philippians 2:10-11)  God has no partially.

Isaiah 45:23-26 nasb
23"I have sworn by Myself,
The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness
And will not turn back,
That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.
24"They will say of Me, 'Only in the LORD are righteousness and strength '
Men will come to Him,
And all who were angry at Him will be put to shame.

25"In the LORD all the offspring of Israel
Will be justified and will glory."


NIV 2010 puts the word "but" on verse 25 for apparently no reason, I don't see the word "but" on any other bibles.
http://biblos.com/isaiah/45-25.htm

Will come to him and be put to shame?  In judgement?  That's the only place where I'd think that they would be put to shame.  And besides, after being punished for a 1,000+ years in hades, people will probably forget what they were on Earth and probably every idea they've ever had.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2011, 06:18:53 PM by nes »

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #42 on: May 21, 2011, 07:42:26 AM »
 :cloud9: What gets me is how the DEAD are judged, yet some will quote out of context, "the dead know nothing". What good would it do for them to be judged if they are unaware of it? And if, as some suppose, they know nothing, cease to exist, whatever, does He revive them just for the pleasure of telling them, "you blew it, now die again?"  :laughing7:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

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Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #43 on: May 21, 2011, 07:49:40 AM »
There are also "dead know nothing" people that believe the dead know nothing until they are resurrected for the Great White Throne judgement. Only the EDs believe the dead die again after GWT
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

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Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #44 on: May 25, 2011, 05:06:04 PM »
John 6:44"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day."


I think this verse is pretty straight forward.  Does this mean that God is picky and choosy about who He brings to the knowledge of Christ?  Calling only some?  I don't think so.  What would be the purpose of creating someone just to put them into a fiery hell?  God will call everyone at some point in their time on this planet, be it in human form or spiritual.  I think to say otherwise would mean that God is a tyrant who creates things to destroy them.  Not to much of a loving God then.

 :2c:

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #45 on: June 24, 2011, 05:45:32 AM »
:cloud9: What gets me is how the DEAD are judged, yet some will quote out of context, "the dead know nothing". What good would it do for them to be judged if they are unaware of it? And if, as some suppose, they know nothing, cease to exist, whatever, does He revive them just for the pleasure of telling them, "you blew it, now die again?"  :laughing7:

Absolutely amen
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Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #46 on: September 18, 2011, 07:44:47 AM »
Regarding the OP:  So the elect didn't even have a first chance?  Neither did the non-elect?
Why are there no more chances after Judgment? You have Scripture for that?
« Last Edit: September 18, 2011, 08:10:24 AM by myrddin »

myrddin

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Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #47 on: September 18, 2011, 07:52:38 AM »
Cp,

Did you read my thread? If you did, you would know me loving my enemies won't help them after death.

What about those who do not believe? Wouldn't they repent and believe if they were given a second chance? The answer is no, they would not because their hearts are not changed simply because they die. Their hearts and minds "are at enmity" against God and won't accept Him even when they see Him face to face. This is evidenced clearly in the story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31. If ever someone should have repented when given a second chance to see clearly the truth, it was the rich man. But although he was in torment in hell, he only asked that Abraham send Lazarus back to earth to warn his brothers so they didn't have to suffer the same fate. There was no repentance in his heart, only regret for where he found himself. Abraham's answer says it all: "And he said to him, If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded, even though one rose from the dead" (Luke 16:31). Here we see that the witness of the Scriptures is sufficient for salvation for those who believe it, and no other revelation will bring about salvation to those who do not. No second, third or fourth chances would be enough to turn the heart of stone into a heart of flesh.
seems like he had some concern for someone other than himself. doesn't sound like the traditional Hell to me. Luke 16 says nothing of the length of tIME of the rich man's sentence, Just that Abraham couldnt help him. God could, just like He does for the elect--sovereignly.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2011, 08:12:27 AM by myrddin »

Offline sheila

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Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #48 on: September 18, 2011, 04:14:13 PM »
 the parable about the rich man ad Lazarus is about spirits. It is on the same distictions of the sheep and goat judgement. One spirit[regenerated Adam/sheep]

  goes to bosom position..the other spirit[corrupt/goat]..into torment] LOF/gehenna....

    the spirit[rich] calls FATHER ABRAHAM...but did not heed the law and prophets...thus showing offspring of viper spirit identity...thus rich man

   is spirit of prince of this world cast out of body of man at death/that does not repent even when someone rises from dead[resurrection of wicked]

   Lazurus signifies' poor in spirit/robbed killed/Christ seed/son of man...spirit that receives free gift of eternal life.

   when an evil. spirit is cast out he goes through dry places[thirst,place of torment]]

myrddin

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Re: Will There be a second chance for salvation after death?
« Reply #49 on: September 18, 2011, 11:59:25 PM »
Regarding the OP:  So the elect didn't even have a first chance?  Neither did the non-elect?
Why are there no more chances after Judgment? You have Scripture for that?

Reading my post, I realize that no one has "chances", as someone already said.  Just the will of God.