Author Topic: Will the Adversary be saved?  (Read 3027 times)

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Offline micah7:9

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Will the Adversary be saved?
« on: November 30, 2010, 01:37:16 AM »
If this question has been asked, please lead me in the proper direction. Thank you :bigGrin:

Will the adversary-satan- be saved in the end?
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Will the Adversary be saved?
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2010, 01:44:09 AM »


lol.



Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Will the Adversary be saved?
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2010, 01:46:07 AM »


Surely it is the spirit of the carnal mind.

So no, it is not saved, verily, it is what we are saved FROM!

Offline thinktank

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Re: Will the Adversary be saved?
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2010, 01:47:23 AM »
It's a possibility, but due to his wretchedness, it would probably take him, eons to change, it takes us generations to change our ways.


Offline micah7:9

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Re: Will the Adversary be saved?
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2010, 01:53:15 AM »
It's a possibility, but due to his wretchedness, it would probably take him, eons to change, it takes us generations to change our ways.

Now I can understand that! Is that a yes?

Ok for the skeptics out there who accept and believe in "UR" as you call it, just what is the definition of ALL?
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Will the Adversary be saved?
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2010, 03:31:20 AM »
I am not a "UR" but I believe in the teaching, it brings forth the Truths of God. That being said, what would alienate the top enemy and adversary from being saved?
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Will the Adversary be saved?
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2010, 03:38:04 AM »

When all men put on the Mind of Christ, where will death and the adversary be?

Will death be saved?

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Will the Adversary be saved?
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2010, 03:49:05 AM »
SAVED G4982
sōzō
From a primary word σῶς sōs̄ (contraction for the obsolete σάος saos, "safe"); to save, that is, deliver or protect (literally or figuratively): - heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.

Yes, death will be delivered, healed made of no offence or harm.
Why not? What does one have against death if it has no sting, and does no harm to the created man?
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Will the Adversary be saved?
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2010, 03:58:22 AM »

If death is delivered, who will it kill?

Offline thinktank

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Re: Will the Adversary be saved?
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2010, 04:02:06 AM »
It's a possibility, but due to his wretchedness, it would probably take him, eons to change, it takes us generations to change our ways.

Now I can understand that! Is that a yes?

Ok for the skeptics out there who accept and believe in "UR" as you call it, just what is the definition of ALL?

Depends on how far you take the ALL. All men, All angels, All animals, All blades of grass etc
Depends on the nature of it I guess. Many scriptures talk about all men being saved, but does not talk about the destiny of the adversary, but why should God save one type but not another? If God prefers one creature more than another, then he becomes more like people and limits his love I think.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Will the Adversary be saved?
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2010, 04:08:26 AM »

If death is delivered, who will it kill?

What is death to you friend? Is death some"thing" that has an attribute that is tangible, is it substance? Or is it some "thing" that will cease and not be when it is destroyed? Maybe, just maybe as God changes wood in a fire to ashes, that God will, after He has destroyed death, change it to some "thing" that is harmelss, even useful?

God will kill(destroy) death.
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Will the Adversary be saved?
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2010, 04:08:55 AM »
It's a possibility, but due to his wretchedness, it would probably take him, eons to change, it takes us generations to change our ways.

Now I can understand that! Is that a yes?

Ok for the skeptics out there who accept and believe in "UR" as you call it, just what is the definition of ALL?

Depends on how far you take the ALL. All men, All angels, All animals, All blades of grass etc
Depends on the nature of it I guess. Many scriptures talk about all men being saved, but does not talk about the destiny of the adversary, but why should God save one type but not another? If God prefers one creature more than another, then he becomes more like people and limits his love I think.

Good point.
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Will the Adversary be saved?
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2010, 04:12:42 AM »

If death is delivered, who will it kill?

What is death to you friend? Is death some"thing" that has an attribute that is tangible, is it substance? Or is it some "thing" that will cease and not be when it is destroyed? Maybe, just maybe as God changes wood in a fire to ashes, that God will, after He has destroyed death, change it to some "thing" that is harmelss, even useful?

God will kill(destroy) death.


Wait a minute there, Micah.

You said first that God will save death and next that he will destroy it.

Switch is it?

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Will the Adversary be saved?
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2010, 04:18:05 AM »

If death is delivered, who will it kill?

What is death to you friend? Is death some"thing" that has an attribute that is tangible, is it substance? Or is it some "thing" that will cease and not be when it is destroyed? Maybe, just maybe as God changes wood in a fire to ashes, that God will, after He has destroyed death, change it to some "thing" that is harmelss, even useful?

God will kill(destroy) death.


Wait a minute there, Micah.

You said first that God will save death and next that he will destroy it.

Switch is it?

What is He gonna do with you? Save G4982
sōzō
From a primary word σῶς sōs̄ (contraction for the obsolete σάος saos, "safe"); to save, that is, deliver or protect (literally or figuratively): - heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.

You are becoming like someone I knew. Hay, wood, and stubble how much of ALL is not in your understanding. The Whole world, all is all. Why do you believe that death and the adversary do not come under the ALL of the Bible?
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Will the Adversary be saved?
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2010, 04:22:12 AM »


Because Micah, when people think that "all" will be saved they think of men. People, not things.

But yes, God is everything and everything is made from the substance of Him.

Sounds like circularity, doesn't it?

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Will the Adversary be saved?
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2010, 04:29:52 AM »


Because Micah, when people think that "all" will be saved they think of men. People, not things.

But yes, God is everything and everything is made from the substance of Him.

Sounds like circularity, doesn't it?

Yes and I believe in the law of circularity, but not from the where you say it begins. But I would like you to answer the questions you pose to me, that I do answer you.
People can "THINK" all as people, but I have seen no division or split in ALL. Either ALL IS ALL OR ALL IS NOT ALL. Ok lets try Saviour of the WHOLE world, I have seen posts and believe that the adversary is in the world, WHAT PART OF WHOLE IS UNACCEPTABLE TO YOU?
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Will the Adversary be saved?
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2010, 04:32:38 AM »
OK, OK,
yes, everything is saved, even traduced truth for it is finished!


PaoloNuevo

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Re: Will the Adversary be saved?
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2010, 06:19:21 AM »
Yup, otherwise why bother testing (basanizo) Satan in the lake of fire? Why with brimstone (Theioo) as well?

Paul writes very clearly that everything whether in heaven (angels fallen or otherwise) or on earth will be reconciled (Col. 1: 20, Eph. 1: 9 - 10 )

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Will the Adversary be saved?
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2010, 06:24:30 AM »
This is one of the objections people often make off the cuff in beginning discussions concerning UR.  "If God will save all, you can't mean the devil too!"  It reveals a fundamental misunderstanding of "salvation."  Keeping people the way they are isn't salvation.  Only those who are transformed by the spirit and power of God can truly be described as saved.  Sometimes those arguing the point are only flip-flopping in their minds on the meaning of salvation.  They admit we are changed, but seem to think the evil would just be remaining the devil if the word salvation is used concerning him.  For God to keep something from being destroyed becomes salvation, forgetting that He corrects in us whatever is causing the destruction.

I like to bring it up first, telling them,"If God 'saved' even the devil, then he wouldn't be the devil anymore, would he?"

(I should mention too that there are very few discussions beyond "beginning" on the topic of UR that I've been priveledged to participate in outside of tentmaker.)
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Will the Adversary be saved?
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2010, 07:06:52 AM »
What you say may be considered, but I cannot get answers for pin pointing just who the adversary is. We know the names that (he) is called, serpent, devil, old dragon  and we read about what powers  the enemy is about in the garden. We know that the adversary is from the beginning and a liar and a murderer, a roaring lion.
But I believe that Jesus Christ cannot be the Saviour of the world(kosmos) if he leaves out something.

Joh 4:42  and said to the woman--`No more because of thy speaking do we believe; for we ourselves have heard and known that this is truly the Saviour of the world--the Christ.'
1Jn 4:14  And we--we have seen and do testify, that the Father hath sent the Son--Saviour of the world;
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Will the Adversary be saved?
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2010, 07:48:09 AM »
 :cloud9: Salvation is for men, not angels, because they don't have the blood of Adam running in their veins. But I believe that that which is not like God will be reconciled once it has served it's purpose. Once overcome, the adversary is not a threat but a servant. a footstool to elevate the feet that will stand upon Mt. Zion. My  :2c: Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Will the Adversary be saved?
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2010, 04:10:22 PM »


Devil: diabolos, a traducer (Strong's).
Traduce: to transfer from one order of reasoning to another, i.e., to translate from one language to another.
The devil, the traducer, translates the Word of God into the language of the carnal mind. The Word is, therefore, transferred from heavenly to earthly, thus destroying it.


http://www.godfire.net/Traducer.html       < whole article

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Will the Adversary be saved?
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2010, 04:59:49 PM »


No,  Saul of Taursus was an adversary,  he was not saved, but destroyed and the result was Paul.


Offline micah7:9

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Re: Will the Adversary be saved?
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2010, 05:59:05 PM »


No,  Saul of Taursus was an adversary,  he was not saved, but destroyed and the result was Paul.

Except a corn of wheat fall to the ground and die (destroy) it cannot have life
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Will the Adversary be saved?
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2010, 07:52:06 PM »
 :cloud9: God's judgments are unto victory. What is not like God, when put thru the fire, becomes like God again in nature  = 4th man in the fire. My  :2c: Blessings.....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor