Author Topic: wicked angels saved?  (Read 2285 times)

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Offline eaglesway

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Re: wicked angels saved?
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2012, 05:26:57 AM »
Yea Paul, I have thought about those same things. I see all those possibilities as part, in degrees as yet unknown to us, of what will be. I think the fear of punishment is real. Jesus invoked warnings that are fearful as did the apostles..... I just see that there is much more mercy involved in the overall application of justice that we have all been taught in times past with words corrupted by too much condemnation theology
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Offline eaglesway

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Re: wicked angels saved?
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2012, 06:38:06 AM »
I would like to say that I find, in the posts shared MissZoolander by "Whoever Wrote Them", a very clear deception. The statement that Satan "sacrificed his life exactly as Jesus did" is a radical distortion of the testimony of the scriptures.

There is, IMO, something none of us clearly understands regarding how God, who is omniscient and all-powerful and exists in the past present and future simultaneously, has caused all things to work according to the counsel of His will while at the same time having created vessels of wrath, nevertheless holding them accountable- but He has and does. IMO this is something we can only glimpse through a glass darkly, and I have no problem with that

What we do see clearly.....What is the "milk of the Word" which must be digested before we can digest meat, are the following things.

2Ti 3:16-17
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.....meaning, the scriptures are the basis of our revelation, when properly translated and illumined by the Holy Spirit(not cast aside by the Holy Spirit, He does not do that)

2Pe 1:20-21
 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God....... meaning, there is absolute truth, even if we don't fully understand it. On the forum, we use the words In My Opinion a lot and encourage it, not because we don't believe their is absolute truth, but because we don't believe anyone on the forum has all of it, and we don't believe we will arrive at it by arguing and striving from an uplifted attitude.

Luk 24:32
 They said to one another, "Were not our hearts burning within us while He was speaking to us on the road, while He was explaining the Scriptures to us?"........ Jesus brought revelation to and through the scriptures.

And the tempter came and said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread." But He answered and said, "It is written, 'MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.'" ...meaning, I will only use the word as I receive it from the Lord for His purpose,which is the true bread.

Then the devil *took Him into the holy city and had Him stand on the pinnacle of the temple, and *said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down; for it is written, 'HE WILL COMMAND HIS ANGELS CONCERNING YOU'; and 'ON their HANDS THEY WILL BEAR YOU UP, SO THAT YOU WILL NOT STRIKE YOUR FOOT AGAINST A STONE.'" Jesus said to him, "On the other hand, it is written, 'YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.".......meaning, I will only use the word as I receive it from the Lord for His purpose, which is true safety.

 
Again, the devil *took Him to a very high mountain and *showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory; and he said to Him, "All these things I will give You, if You fall down and worship me."  Then Jesus *said to him, "Go, Satan! For it is written, 'YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD, AND SERVE HIM ONLY.'" .......meaning, I desire only to do the will of God, and I worship Him alone with my whole heart.
(Mat 4:3-11)

Jesus did battle with the adversary by the scripture, and divided the misapplications of them by more scripture, the sword of the Spirit.

"In that day I will slay Leviathan the twisting fleeing serpent by the sword of my mouth." (Isaiah 27)

There is no place in the scripture, directly or indirectly that teaches that Satan is a willing sacrificial servant of God and on His team. Whatever one believes about predestination versus free will and all the nuances and degrees of considerations concerning them- IMO anyone who teaches that Satan is a willing sacrificial servant of God is rejecting volumes of the direct testimony of scripture. The adversary is the "spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience" because He is disobedient. He is called the adversary because he is the enemy of God, full of enmity, hatred and deception.

 What has happened in history and what is happening now and what will happen in the future is not just a dance or an act. It is all very real. That God holds angels and men accountable is incontrovertible. That God knows the end from the beginning and cause all things to work according to the counsel of His will is also incontrovertible. Whatever "mystery" is clouded between those two understandings- their ARE limits to where we can take our logic before it becomes the wresting of the scriptures and teaching things that would make the words of the prophets and the Jesus and the apostles a joke.  Does anyone really believe that Paul was sitting three steps in back of his words and speaking in elusive riddles that never meant what he plainly said?

Well, IMO, that person has grown too wise in their own eyes :o)

if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace which was given to me for you; that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief. By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit;
(Eph 3:2-5)


The "hidden wisdom" Paul speaks of in 1 Cor. 2 and the "mystery" He speaks of in Ephesians is still subject to the scriptures of the prophets and the apostles.

Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past, but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith; to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ, be the glory forever. Amen.
(Rom 16:25-27)

Misszoolander, no offense to you is personally intended towards you by me, since you didnt write it- but you posted it so I am responding to it as it is.

Peace out.  :o)

I think the citation to the actual author of those posts should be given, as well.





« Last Edit: December 14, 2012, 06:42:47 AM by eaglesway »
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Offline Ross

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Re: wicked angels saved?
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2012, 09:51:14 AM »
Possible that judgement is pointing out the mistakes and correcting them.
I think of the term of apprentice and how the learner is corrected by the master. Some mistakes are bigger than others, but all are corrected as part of the learning process.
Fellow brother in Christ

Offline Paul L

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Re: wicked angels saved?
« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2012, 03:31:39 PM »
Possible that judgement is pointing out the mistakes and correcting them.
I think of the term of apprentice and how the learner is corrected by the master. Some mistakes are bigger than others, but all are corrected as part of the learning process.

Pretty much the point I was attempting to make when discussing how I've had to take my employees through training sessions so they can learn to make correct decisions without my constant presence. There must be degrees, or levels, of judgement wherein Christ himself will handle the highest levels, the punishments of Satan & Anti-Christ to the lake of fire, etc.

Fortunately for God & for me, I'll be operating at the bottom-most  level where I will be pleased just to get some basic training, but I guess too, that is part of what this earthly existence is about, maybe we're in basic training & just don't know it.


Offline eaglesway

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Re: wicked angels saved?
« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2012, 08:44:49 PM »
"Fortunately for God & for me, I'll be operating at the bottom-most  level where I will be pleased just to get some basic training, but I guess too, that is part of what this earthly existence is about, maybe we're in basic training & just don't know it."  - Paul L

I think that is what the whole issue of sonship, discipleship and inheritance is about.

Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Isaiah 11:1-
Then a shoot will spring from the stem of Jesse,
And a branch from his roots will bear fruit.
2 The Spirit of the Lord will rest on Him,
The spirit of wisdom and understanding,
The spirit of counsel and strength,
The spirit of knowledge and the fear of the Lord.
3 And He will delight in the fear of the Lord,
And He will not judge by what His eyes see,
Nor make a decision by what His ears hear;
4 But with righteousness He will judge the poor,
And decide with fairness for the afflicted of the earth
;
And He will strike the earth with the rod of His mouth,
And with the breath of His lips He will slay the wicked.
5 Also righteousness will be the belt about His loins,
And faithfulness the belt about His waist.
 

6 And the wolf will dwell with the lamb,
And the leopard will lie down with the young goat,
And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
And a little boy will lead them.
7 Also the cow and the bear will graze,
Their young will lie down together,
And the lion will eat straw like the ox.
8 The nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra,
And the weaned child will put his hand on the viper's den.
9 They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain,
For the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord
As the waters cover the sea.
10 Then in that day
The nations will resort to the root of Jesse,
Who will stand as a signal for the peoples;
And His resting place will be glorious.

« Last Edit: December 14, 2012, 08:50:19 PM by eaglesway »
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Offline misszoolander

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Re: wicked angels saved?
« Reply #30 on: December 14, 2012, 10:41:38 PM »
I would like to say that I find, in the posts shared MissZoolander by "Whoever Wrote Them", a very clear deception. The statement that Satan "sacrificed his life exactly as Jesus did" is a radical distortion of the testimony of the scriptures.

There is, IMO, something none of us clearly understands regarding how God, who is omniscient and all-powerful and exists in the past present and future simultaneously, has caused all things to work according to the counsel of His will while at the same time having created vessels of wrath, nevertheless holding them accountable- but He has and does. IMO this is something we can only glimpse through a glass darkly, and I have no problem with that

What we do see clearly.....What is the "milk of the Word" which must be digested before we can digest meat, are the following things.

2Ti 3:16-17
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.....meaning, the scriptures are the basis of our revelation, when properly translated and illumined by the Holy Spirit(not cast aside by the Holy Spirit, He does not do that)

2Pe 1:20-21
 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God....... meaning, there is absolute truth, even if we don't fully understand it. On the forum, we use the words In My Opinion a lot and encourage it, not because we don't believe their is absolute truth, but because we don't believe anyone on the forum has all of it, and we don't believe we will arrive at it by arguing and striving from an uplifted attitude.

Luk 24:32
 They said to one another, "Were not our hearts burning within us while He was speaking to us on the road, while He was explaining the Scriptures to us?"........ Jesus brought revelation to and through the scriptures.

And the tempter came and said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread." But He answered and said, "It is written, 'MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.'" ...meaning, I will only use the word as I receive it from the Lord for His purpose,which is the true bread.

Then the devil *took Him into the holy city and had Him stand on the pinnacle of the temple, and *said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down; for it is written, 'HE WILL COMMAND HIS ANGELS CONCERNING YOU'; and 'ON their HANDS THEY WILL BEAR YOU UP, SO THAT YOU WILL NOT STRIKE YOUR FOOT AGAINST A STONE.'" Jesus said to him, "On the other hand, it is written, 'YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.".......meaning, I will only use the word as I receive it from the Lord for His purpose, which is true safety.

 
Again, the devil *took Him to a very high mountain and *showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory; and he said to Him, "All these things I will give You, if You fall down and worship me."  Then Jesus *said to him, "Go, Satan! For it is written, 'YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD, AND SERVE HIM ONLY.'" .......meaning, I desire only to do the will of God, and I worship Him alone with my whole heart.
(Mat 4:3-11)

Jesus did battle with the adversary by the scripture, and divided the misapplications of them by more scripture, the sword of the Spirit.

"In that day I will slay Leviathan the twisting fleeing serpent by the sword of my mouth." (Isaiah 27)

There is no place in the scripture, directly or indirectly that teaches that Satan is a willing sacrificial servant of God and on His team. Whatever one believes about predestination versus free will and all the nuances and degrees of considerations concerning them- IMO anyone who teaches that Satan is a willing sacrificial servant of God is rejecting volumes of the direct testimony of scripture. The adversary is the "spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience" because He is disobedient. He is called the adversary because he is the enemy of God, full of enmity, hatred and deception.

 What has happened in history and what is happening now and what will happen in the future is not just a dance or an act. It is all very real. That God holds angels and men accountable is incontrovertible. That God knows the end from the beginning and cause all things to work according to the counsel of His will is also incontrovertible. Whatever "mystery" is clouded between those two understandings- their ARE limits to where we can take our logic before it becomes the wresting of the scriptures and teaching things that would make the words of the prophets and the Jesus and the apostles a joke.  Does anyone really believe that Paul was sitting three steps in back of his words and speaking in elusive riddles that never meant what he plainly said?

Well, IMO, that person has grown too wise in their own eyes :o)

if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace which was given to me for you; that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief. By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit;
(Eph 3:2-5)


The "hidden wisdom" Paul speaks of in 1 Cor. 2 and the "mystery" He speaks of in Ephesians is still subject to the scriptures of the prophets and the apostles.

Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past, but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith; to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ, be the glory forever. Amen.
(Rom 16:25-27)

Misszoolander, no offense to you is personally intended towards you by me, since you didnt write it- but you posted it so I am responding to it as it is.

Peace out.  :o)

I think the citation to the actual author of those posts should be given, as well.

Heya,
No offence taken! One of the reasons I posted that article was too get an opinion, and I truly value yours. I am in a process of learning. For the first time I am hungry for the scriptures,  and for truth. I have asked Jesus to help me :)

Honestly your view is appreciated, so is everyone else's. In fact i still compare UR views to ET views to get a clear understanding.

I have no way made up my mind on anything just yet considering that article, I have asked God to help me. He may help me by using people like you!

Thanks again :)

Sarah
It is well with my soul.

Offline eaglesway

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Re: wicked angels saved?
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2012, 10:52:21 PM »
Your welcome :o)
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Offline Paul L

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Re: wicked angels saved?
« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2012, 01:14:07 AM »
I have spent the afternoon learning a new song on my guitar. An old hymn for for an especially trying day. Re-arranging it to a key that best suited what I felt most deeply required a couple of hours. Adam, my wife is an elementary schoolteacher just as your mother was, my son about same age as yourself. I want to sing this song with you someday:

I Will Sing of My Redeemer

I will praise my dear Redeemer,
His triumph power I'll tell,
How the victory He giveth
Over sin and death and hell

Refrain

Sing , O sing of my Redeemer,
With his blood He purchased me,
On the cross He sealed my pardon,
Paid my debt, and made me free.
[/b]

Adam Lanza, God only knows what caused you to perform your cruel deed . Your sin will be covered by the blood of my Brother from his cross where he will seal your pardon, as he will for all of us, and one day too you will joyfully sing this song with all the rest of us who have trod this earth's sometimes sad & lonely pathways. Adam, this is a beautiful hymn that gives me longing for the day you will stand with all of us to sing it together. God's judgements are merciful, in his care are the spirits of the victims, all of whom will one day be restored and made whole again, including yourself.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 02:11:33 AM by Paul L »