willieH: Hi Scott...
Willie contrary to what you think I do understand what you are saying, I just disagree with it.
Fine with me...
I don't see that ones beliefs necessitate COMPLETE agreement with anyone! ...We share belief in many common truths, however, there will always be points of observance in us as believers, ...that will be in contention... for we are yet to be made COMPLETE... Until that COMPLETION
appears (putting on INCORRUPTION), the portions of each of us which are INCOMPLETE, will appear in ALL of us...
Do you remember the thread awhile back that was locked and how some here stated Christ died for people in another realm? And how you and I both said if this was so then there was no need for Christ to have died in this realm 2000 years ago?
Now you are saying the same thing as they did by stating Christ died in a realm you call eternity before He ever created the world. Go figure
No brother, I am NOT saying this at all! I am saying that the WORD
S of GOD, do not need the manifestation of the PHYSICAL, nor TIME, in order to
GOD never CHANGES... so He never "becomes"
anything... He already IS
...ALL in ALL
... in the ETERNAL... (I realize that you don't "get this")... so ALL that manifests in TIME already IS, in the ETERNAL... Which prompts the verse: Calling those things which be NOT as though they were... (Rom 4:17)
GOD cannot LIE... so how can He truthfully call something that IS NOT, as though it IS?
Simple... it ALREADY IS from ETERNAL PERSPECTIVE, for He has DECLARED [stated in HIS WORD
S] the END from the BEGINNING (Is 46:10-11)
PROPHECY is done this very same way bro... It CAN NOT occur in TIME, differently than it is NOTED to be in PROPHECY... Why? Because it ...IS
... an ETERNAL, "WRITTEN in STONE"
(the ROCK), ...communication of the TRUTH which already, ...ETERNALLY, IS
is the SAME
, He never EVER "becomes" anything other than He IS
... (Heb 13:8)
... so His DEATH, which was eventually manifest in TIME was a matter of FACT
] in ETERNITY without and apart from its "time manifestation"... CHRIST
is WITHOUT beginning or end Himself, yet He IS
the BEGINNING and END (emerging and destination points) for all things and scenarios which HAVE these elements... that being the "creatures" and "events" which occur in, and traverse, TIME
Anyway bro, I said my peace and even though you think I am blind and God will eventually open my eyes, you still have not shown ONE scripture that states SIN is of GOD, yes you supplied some scriptures that you think IMPLY SIN is of GOD but that is only your assumption of what they say.
First, I do not think you are BLIND... I believe that ALL of us are on the road to COMPLETION, which means we are ALL, INCOMPLETE... REVELATION is given according to the PURPOSE of GOD... not according to your or my desire that it be ours...
The very same
(above in red
) may be said of you bro...
...That you (presently) consider that SIN is an element which found its way into the Creation of YHVH
, via its own means, OUTSIDE of Him and His WILL, is that which I observe as your "ASSUMPTION"
I did not and DO NOT say that "SIN is of GOD"... what I did and DO SAY, is that HE created what it "IS"... He designed EVIL, brought it forth, even SENT it in some cases... and IN the PRACTICE of EVIL, is SIN manifest... SIN emerges from the satifying of the desires which are prompted by the FLESH (James 1:14)
... the FLESH is a Creation of GOD... as IS... the MAN within that FLESH, which falls to the prompting of its desires! (sin)
We cannot disassociate the existance of things from GOD, which appear distasteful... such as sin
in its myriad variations, and awful results... For if GOD created EVIL, which He DID (Is 45:7)
... then all that become directly or indirectly associated with it, are by-products of that creation... and find their PURPOSE within the revelation of the coming GLORY of YHVH
Your observation attempts to remove the characteristics [sin/transgression] of the product
, by denying they emerged from the hand of it's producer/creator
GOD gave man the ability and
(sin), no matter how anyone might wish to dance around it...
Furthermore, ...HE also designed in EVERY CASE, ...WHAT SIN IS
, and also designed its RESULT=DEATH
... ALL THINGS are found emerging from YHVH
You (as does most of Orthodox Christianity), will not consider that which SCRIPTURE actually SAYS
in this matter... and you are welcome to believe as you do, without insistence from ME that you believe differently...
"shown" you how this works, ...however, presently you are unable to "see" the relevance...
is ETERNAL... which means it has NO Need FOR
, NOR HAS
it, a point of "ORIGIN" nor a "FINAL point of DESTINATION"...
It does not require TIME
in order to ...BE
ALL have SINNED... was a proclamation made IN TIME (by Paul), but in ETERNITY, before any (physical/earthy/made of dust) MAN existed, THIS FACT, already ...IS
stated this principle in the NT, as did YHVH
in the OT (to Moses) when it was said by HIM: "BEFORE Abraham ...WAS, ...I AM...
I know you shall see this one day bro, cuz I know you are fervently searching for revelation of the WORD
For now, as brothers, guess we must just, agree to diagree...