Why is it so hard for some to believe ALL go to Heaven oneday?

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Scott...

Willie contrary to what you think I do understand what you are saying, I just disagree with it.

Fine with me...    I don't see that ones beliefs necessitate COMPLETE agreement with anyone!  ...We share belief in many common truths, however, there will always be points of observance in us as believers, ...that will be in contention... for we are yet to be made COMPLETE... Until that COMPLETION appears (putting on INCORRUPTION), the portions of each of us which are INCOMPLETE, will appear in ALL of us... 

Do you remember the thread awhile back that was locked and how some here stated Christ died for people in another realm? And how you and I both said if this was so then there was no need for Christ to have died in this realm 2000 years ago?

Now you are saying the same thing as they did by stating Christ died in a realm you call eternity before He ever created the world. Go figure

No brother, I am NOT saying this at all!  I am saying that the WORDS of GOD, do not need the manifestation of the PHYSICAL, nor TIME, in order to

...BE... 

GOD never CHANGES... so He never "becomes" anything... He already IS ...ALL in ALL... in the ETERNAL... (I realize that you don't "get this")... so ALL that manifests in TIME already IS, in the ETERNAL...  Which prompts the verse:  Calling those things which be NOT as though they were... (Rom 4:17)

GOD cannot LIE... so how can He truthfully call something that IS NOT, as though it IS?

Simple... it ALREADY IS from ETERNAL PERSPECTIVE, for He has DECLARED [stated in HIS WORDS] the END from the BEGINNING (Is 46:10-11)

PROPHECY is done this very same way bro... It CAN NOT occur in TIME, differently than it is NOTED to be in PROPHECY... Why?  Because it ...IS... an ETERNAL, "WRITTEN in STONE" (the ROCK), ...communication of the TRUTH which already, ...ETERNALLY, IS...

CHRIST is the SAME, He never EVER "becomes" anything other than He IS... (Heb 13:8)... so His DEATH, which was eventually manifest in TIME was a matter of FACT [IS] in ETERNITY without and apart from its "time manifestation"...

CHRIST is WITHOUT beginning or end Himself, yet He IS the BEGINNING and END (emerging and destination points) for all things and scenarios which HAVE these elements... that being the "creatures" and "events" which occur in, and traverse, TIME...

Anyway bro, I said my peace and even though you think I am blind and God will eventually open my eyes, you still have not shown ONE scripture that states SIN is of GOD, yes you supplied some scriptures that you think IMPLY SIN is of GOD but that is only your assumption of what they say.

First, I do not think you are BLIND... I believe that ALL of us are on the road to COMPLETION, which means we are ALL, INCOMPLETE...  REVELATION is given according to the PURPOSE of GOD... not according to your or my desire that it be ours...

   The very same (above in red) may be said of you bro...  ...That you (presently) consider that SIN is an element which found its way into the Creation of YHVH, via its own means, OUTSIDE of Him and His WILL, is that which I observe as your "ASSUMPTION"... 

I did not and DO NOT say that "SIN is of GOD"... what I did and DO SAY, is that HE created what it "IS"... He designed EVIL, brought it forth, even SENT it in some cases... and IN the PRACTICE of EVIL, is SIN manifest... SIN emerges from the satifying of the desires which are prompted by the FLESH (James 1:14)... the FLESH is a Creation of GOD... as IS... the MAN within that FLESH, which falls to the prompting of its desires! (sin) 

We cannot disassociate the existance of things from GOD, which appear distasteful... such as sin in its myriad variations, and awful results...  For if GOD created EVIL, which He DID (Is 45:7)... then all that become directly or indirectly associated with it, are by-products of that creation... and find their PURPOSE within the revelation of the coming GLORY of YHVH...

Your observation attempts to remove the characteristics [sin/transgression] of the product, by denying they emerged from the hand of it's producer/creator!
 
GOD gave man the ability and gravitating tendency to transgress (sin), no matter how anyone might wish to dance around it...

Furthermore,  ...HE also designed in EVERY CASE, ...WHAT SIN IS, and also designed its RESULT=DEATH...  ALL THINGS are found emerging from YHVH...

You (as does most of Orthodox Christianity), will not consider that which SCRIPTURE actually SAYS in this matter... and you are welcome to believe as you do, without insistence from ME that you believe differently... 

I have "shown" you how this works, ...however, presently you are unable to "see" the relevance... 

GOD's WORD is ETERNAL... which means it has NO Need FOR,  NOR HAS it, a point of "ORIGIN"  nor a "FINAL point of DESTINATION"... 

GOD's WORD ...IS...

It does not require TIME in order to ...BE...

ALL have SINNED... was a proclamation made IN TIME (by Paul), but in ETERNITY, before any (physical/earthy/made of dust) MAN existed, THIS FACT, already ...IS... 

JESUS stated this principle in the NT, as did YHVH in the OT (to Moses) when it was said by HIM:  "BEFORE Abraham ...WAS, ...I AM... (not "was")

I know you shall see this one day bro, cuz I know you are fervently searching for revelation of the WORD...   

For now, as brothers, guess we must just, agree to diagree... 

peacE...
willieH   

[pneuma]

I won't hold it against you that you do not seem to follow Knoch's view of things. 

 

pneuma, Christ did not unlock the door of the prison in which God has CURRENTLY LOCKED UP ALL IN UNBELIEF. They will not be unlocked until Israel's Redeemer arrives out of Zion AND THUS ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED and not one whit till then.

You state "Christ is the door" as if that solves your dilemma. But door of WHAT? He is the door of the sheep (John 10:7). Christ did not say "I am the door of the prison."

Tony, of course He is the door to the prison for no one can get out of prison but by going though Him.

Of course the door is locked to the Jews. If it was open they would believe.

Were going to differ here bro, if it is locked to the Jews please explain how it is that some Jews believe? Remember God is no respecter of person, all that come to Him He will in no wise cast out. Those still locked in unbelief are only there because they do not realize He has set them free. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

[pneuma]

Just because Ro.11 was written after Christ death bro does not mean the DOOR is locked to the JEWS, Paul was explaining to everyone why God had cast them away, he was not saying they are still cast away because he goes on to say that they are gathered back in if they believed in what Christ had done for them.

The ones that did not believe were still blinded by God.

• Romans 11:8
  (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

Hi Bob, I don't disagree brother, but just because they do not realise the door is open to them does not mean it ain't open.

[pneuma]

Just because Ro.11 was written after Christ death bro does not mean the DOOR is locked to the JEWS, Paul was explaining to everyone why God had cast them away, he was not saying they are still cast away because he goes on to say that they are gathered back in if they believed in what Christ had done for them.

The ones that did not believe were still blinded by God.

• Romans 11:8
  (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

God Or Satan?
2Cr 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Hi Graham, I have to agree with Bob here bro, I think the translaters made a mistake and did not capitalise god in this verse when they should have, but God blinded them because of thier unbeleif not before.

[pneuma]

For now, as brothers, guess we must just, agree to diagree...

  works for me bro

[At peace]

WOW...this post has been viewed 2408 times, with 479 responses. Is this an all time record.

I really have nothing else to add to this discussion. I'm just posting, because I figure everybody else has ,so im doing a lemming and posting.

OK, ill go back to lurking in the shadows, now.

God bless you all,
At peace

Edit:lol, I just realized that I have already posted in this thread and on a much more serious note, too.

[Molly]

"Wake up, wake up;
    put on your strength, Zion!
    Put on your beautiful garments,
    Jerusalem, the Holy City!
    For the uncircumcised and the unclean
    will no longer enter you.
    2 Stand up, shake the dust off yourself!
    Take your seat, Jerusalem.
    Remove the bonds  from your neck,
    captive Daughter Zion."

    3 For this is what the LORD says:
    "You were sold for nothing,
    and you will be redeemed without silver."

--Isa 52



18 For you know that you were redeemed from your empty way of life inherited from the fathers, not with perishable things, like silver or gold, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb  without defect or blemish.

--1 Peter 1


 
5 This was not made known to people in other generations as it is now revealed to His holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit: 6 the Gentiles are co-heirs, members of the same body, and partners of the promise  in Christ Jesus through the gospel. 7 I was made a servant of this [gospel] by the gift of God's grace that was given to me by the working of His power.

    8 This grace was given to me—the least of all the saints!—to proclaim to the Gentiles the incalculable riches  of the Messiah, 9 and to shed light for all about the administration of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created  all things. 10 This is so that God's multi-faceted wisdom  may now be made known through the church to the rulers and authorities in the heavens.  11 This is according to the purpose  of the ages, which He made in the Messiah, Jesus our Lord, 12 in whom we have boldness, access,  and confidence through faith in Him.

--Eph 3

[Taffy]

WOW...this post has been viewed 2408 times, with 479 responses. Is this an all time record.

I really have nothing else to add to this discussion. I'm just posting, because I figure everybody else has ,so im doing a lemming and posting.

OK, ill go back to lurking in the shadows, now.

God bless you all,
At peace

Edit:lol, I just realized that I have already posted in this thread and on a much more serious note, too.

Click On [more stats] in the "Forum stats" at the bottom of the Board.

[Tony N]

pneuma, Christ did not unlock the door of the prison in which God has CURRENTLY LOCKED UP ALL IN UNBELIEF. They will not be unlocked until Israel's Redeemer arrives out of Zion AND THUS ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED and not one whit till then.

And what about those who worship satan?

Revelation 2:9
I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Well, LOL, that proves my point that those who, in the future which John saw, who will be of the synagogue of Satan, are locked up in stubbornness by God.

[Tony N]

I won't hold it against you that you do not seem to follow Knoch's view of things. 

 

pneuma, Christ did not unlock the door of the prison in which God has CURRENTLY LOCKED UP ALL IN UNBELIEF. They will not be unlocked until Israel's Redeemer arrives out of Zion AND THUS ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED and not one whit till then.

You state "Christ is the door" as if that solves your dilemma. But door of WHAT? He is the door of the sheep (John 10:7). Christ did not say "I am the door of the prison."

Tony, of course He is the door to the prison for no one can get out of prison but by going though Him.

Of course the door is locked to the Jews. If it was open they would believe.

Were going to differ here bro, if it is locked to the Jews please explain how it is that some Jews believe? Remember God is no respecter of person, all that come to Him He will in no wise cast out. Those still locked in unbelief are only there because they do not realize He has set them free. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

The only Jews who believe, such as Saul who became the apostle Paul, was not because they somehow cut a hole through the prison wall and escaped God's prison by their free will and somehow circumvented God's prison system. It was because God unlocked Paul's stubbornness.
The Bible does not say that "those locked in unbelief are only there because they do not realize He has set them free." The Bible does, however say, that they will remain stubborn UNTIL . . . until what or until when? . . .

Rom 11:25 For I am not willing for you to be ignorant of this secret, brethren, lest you may be passing for prudent among yourselves, that callousness, in part, on Israel has come, until the complement of the nations may be entering."

pneuma, I don't want you to be ignorant of this secret either. Once that which completes the body of Christ among the nations then and only then will Israel be let out of the prison of stubbornness. Not one day sooner. God is the Warden and He has set the time table.

[Tony N]

Hi Bob, I don't disagree brother, but just because they do not realise the door is open to them does not mean it ain't open.

pneuma, if the door is locked, how can you say it is open? Don't you find that rather contradictory to what the Scriptures say?

"God locks up all in stubbornness" yet you say the door is not locked, it is open! It does not say: "God opens the door to stubbornness."

[rosered]

 
  I believe because of what Christ has done ,THE  Hearts  DOOR  it is OPEN , heaven opened
 
  but not for some yet ,  many are still groping at the door and many shall come in , as many already  have entered the gates of the City
 
  Jesus Christ is that   ascending and descending Ladder between heaven and earth ..
 Jhn 1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels/messengers  of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.
  the Son of MAN is any man/woman witness  formed  with  the Spirit of God and Jesus Christ in them working together  as ONE in Spirit and Truth , the heaven and earth  witnesses /testimonies 
 
  who can see and hear and walk  in the Spirit except  Christ/annointed  heals them ?

  a Jew is the inward man  as  Paul states , not so much the literal and physical  natural  birth of mankind , but in Spiritual  /manner ,nature birthright /order of things done in Gods will
 
 It was , it is and it is not , depending on whom God /Christ/Holy Spirit  is working in  now ..
  It is such an individual working for the glory of Gods will coming to pass and going into  completness
  for me any ways  my 

[bobf]

Hi Bob, I don't disagree brother, but just because they do not realise the door is open to them does not mean it ain't open.

I thought the locked door we were referring to was their own unbelief.  I guess it comes down to this.  Who or what is the ultimate cause for the removing of unbelief.  God or free will.

[Nathan]

What about the unbelief in the first place?  Is not "that" the reason why the locks were in place?  Had they believed, the locks wouldn't be necessary.  Who told them to not believe?

For me it's like God is an umbrella to protect me from the elements.  If I step out from under the umbrella, God's judgment of pelting rain is not the result . . .the pelting rain is hitting because "I" stepped out of the alignment.  This lock we're talking about is what happens when we don't believe what God tells us.  What unlocks it is the same that locked it in the first place . . the exercising of my faith.

To say that this lock is still there is to then say that even though Jesus is knocking at the door . . .it's a locked door???  Wouldn't he know that??

[Paul Hazelwood]

I believe our carnal nature is the prison and inside are many cells.  Our perfection comes from Christ unlocking the cells, the completion of that perfection is when we are enabled to walk out of the prison.

[Zeek]

http://www.presence.tv/cms/allisrael.php

[Tony N]

What about the unbelief in the first place?  Is not "that" the reason why the locks were in place?  Had they believed, the locks wouldn't be necessary.  Who told them to not believe?

For me it's like God is an umbrella to protect me from the elements.  If I step out from under the umbrella, God's judgment of pelting rain is not the result . . .the pelting rain is hitting because "I" stepped out of the alignment.  This lock we're talking about is what happens when we don't believe what God tells us.  What unlocks it is the same that locked it in the first place . . the exercising of my faith.

To say that this lock is still there is to then say that even though Jesus is knocking at the door . . .it's a locked door???  Wouldn't he know that??

Jesus is knocking at the door of the SYNOGOGUE in the future in John's revelation. If anyone in that SYNOGOGUE opens the door to that synogogue then Jesus will come into that synogogue toward that person and sup with him. That is still future.

Also God began locking Israel in stubbornness in Isaiah's day. Jesus said it was still in force in his day. Paul, in Acts said it is still in force after Christ died and rose from the dead.
In Romans 11 God has still locked them up in stubbornness.

[bobf]

What about the unbelief in the first place?

Isn't unbelief "in the first place" common to all mankind?

[Molly]

What about the unbelief in the first place?  Is not "that" the reason why the locks were in place?  Had they believed, the locks wouldn't be necessary.  Who told them to not believe?

For me it's like God is an umbrella to protect me from the elements.  If I step out from under the umbrella, God's judgment of pelting rain is not the result . . .the pelting rain is hitting because "I" stepped out of the alignment.  This lock we're talking about is what happens when we don't believe what God tells us.  What unlocks it is the same that locked it in the first place . . the exercising of my faith.

To say that this lock is still there is to then say that even though Jesus is knocking at the door . . .it's a locked door???  Wouldn't he know that??

Jesus is knocking at the door of the SYNOGOGUE in the future in John's revelation. If anyone in that SYNOGOGUE opens the door to that synogogue then Jesus will come into that synogogue toward that person and sup with him. That is still future.

Also God began locking Israel in stubbornness in Isaiah's day. Jesus said it was still in force in his day. Paul, in Acts said it is still in force after Christ died and rose from the dead.
In Romans 11 God has still locked them up in stubbornness.

Didn't God divorce Israel?  Maybe we should look up the laws of divorce in the Old Testament.

So only the lukewarm church of Laodicea gets to sit on the throne with Jesus?  I don't think so.


Listen! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and have dinner with him, and he with Me. 21 The victor: I will give him the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I also won the victory and sat down with My Father on His throne.

    22 "Anyone who has an ear should listen to what the Spirit says to the churches."

--Rev 3

[Nathan]

What about the unbelief in the first place?  Is not "that" the reason why the locks were in place?  Had they believed, the locks wouldn't be necessary.  Who told them to not believe?

For me it's like God is an umbrella to protect me from the elements.  If I step out from under the umbrella, God's judgment of pelting rain is not the result . . .the pelting rain is hitting because "I" stepped out of the alignment.  This lock we're talking about is what happens when we don't believe what God tells us.  What unlocks it is the same that locked it in the first place . . the exercising of my faith.

To say that this lock is still there is to then say that even though Jesus is knocking at the door . . .it's a locked door???  Wouldn't he know that??

Jesus is knocking at the door of the SYNOGOGUE in the future in John's revelation. If anyone in that SYNOGOGUE opens the door to that synogogue then Jesus will come into that synogogue toward that person and sup with him. That is still future.

Also God began locking Israel in stubbornness in Isaiah's day. Jesus said it was still in force in his day. Paul, in Acts said it is still in force after Christ died and rose from the dead.
In Romans 11 God has still locked them up in stubbornness.

Well there inlies the source of our difference right there.  I am convinced that it is "not" a futuristic event and you believe it is.  That can get into a whole other debate which I don't think would really be all that effective in this thread.  But for me, the door is open . . .we're the ones that keep trying to close it, not God.  And even then, we don't have the authority to close what God has opened.  We can try to pretend . . . just as the priests did after the veil was ripped . . .we can try to go on with our lives "business as usual" but that doesn't change the fact that we're living in a draft . .due to the open door before us.

Behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it."     [Revelation 3:8]

"Behold, a door was opened in heaven; and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither..."                          [Revelation 4:1

Anyone ever hear of a guy named "Ray Prinzing"?  He wrote this . .dealing with an opend door.  it was just sent to me today . . . interesting timing.

In the many cycles of God's dealing with man, we are often brought to a new circumstance, a bend in the road with a new direction, a fresh start with a change of jobs, or just another measurement of time call a new year.  The attitude in which we face these challenges is vital in respect to the progress to be made, and the victories to be experienced. I John 4:18 says, "fear hath torment."  The Greek word translated here a "torment" literally means, "restraint."  It also holds within it the meaning of "a Pruning" which signifies a holding back, a restriction of growth.  Fear prohibits one from going on to perfection, for it draws back from the unknown, and confines us to the limitations of that which we have already experienced. Therefore we must gird up our minds, knowing that "God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind." [2 Timothy 1:7]. And His love in us will  "cast out all fear."

Inasmuch as "the steps of a man are ordered by the Lord: and He delighteth in his way." [Psalm 37:23], we can courageously accept the challenge of AN OPEN DOOR knowing that He goes before us to lead step by step. It is God that hath set before us this "open door," and "if God be for us, who can be against us? - In all these things we are (become) more than conquerors through Him that loved us." [Romans 8:32,37].

Beyond all the natural realms, however, there is also the OPEN DOOR FOR NEW SPIRITUAL DIMENSIONS. "Come up hither..." bespeaks of a transition, an end to the former, the limitations of "in part," a prophecy, a word of knowledge, a word of wisdom, fragmentary and incomplete; and now to become partakers of the creative word for the new order of His kingdom.

[Nathan]

I believe our carnal nature is the prison and inside are many cells.  Our perfection comes from Christ unlocking the cells, the completion of that perfection is when we are enabled to walk out of the prison.

Amen Paul.  My carnality is what imprisons me.  Faith in Christ releases me from the prisons "within". 

[Paul Hazelwood]

Well there inlies the source of our difference right there.  I am convinced that it is "not" a futuristic event and you believe it is.  That can get into a whole other debate which I don't think would really be all that effective in this thread.  But for me, the door is open . . .we're the ones that keep trying to close it, not God.  And even then, we don't have the authority to close what God has opened.  We can try to pretend . . . just as the priests did after the veil was ripped . . .we can try to go on with our lives "business as usual" but that doesn't change the fact that we're living in a draft . .due to the open door before us.

For me is is understanding that our carnal mind has not been completely eliminated in this life.   We can believe in Christ, yet our flesh feels comfortable.   You talk about pretending and thats a good way to put it.

Lately, I have really really been missing the people at the church I used to go to.   I am considering going back,  but not out of the co-dependance I once had.

It is the thought that there are people who need to hear this UR perspective that are not going to hear it with me pretending I should not be in a church building.

I think it is one of those processes.  Some teach that coming out of babylon means to not go to an organized church building.   I think the building is irrevalent.  I think it is to come out of the way of thinking that believes Christ does not have the power to fully accomplish his purpose.

The bible talks about using the foolishness of preaching to save those that believe.  I think maybe, some find it hard to believe that all are saved because too many of us run out of the building when we come to that realization.

I can continue pretending that I should not go back, because it is easy to not go,  it will be hard to go and at appropriate times share the UR message and stand firm in it.

Just some thoughts.

[Molly]

I believe our carnal nature is the prison and inside are many cells.  Our perfection comes from Christ unlocking the cells, the completion of that perfection is when we are enabled to walk out of the prison.

Amen Paul.  My carnality is what imprisons me.  Faith in Christ releases me from the prisons "within". 

Yes, but this freedom should percolate through all of society and through every society in the world.  But, it's not.  Things just seem to be getting worse.

[Nathan]

Molly, sure it is . . .it just depends on what dimension you choose to walk in.  If you choose to look for the natural things . . .you will most definitely see the darkness prevailing.  But if you choose to see the spiritual things, you'll see the darkness has no place here, there is only light and life.  You become what you behold.  It's like praying for the sick or whatever . . .if my prayer dwells on the current state, I'm not helping anyone or anything.  But when I begin to see things AS THOUGH THEY ARE . .and start calling "those" things into being . .NOW I'm releasing life.

Well there inlies the source of our difference right there.  I am convinced that it is "not" a futuristic event and you believe it is.  That can get into a whole other debate which I don't think would really be all that effective in this thread.  But for me, the door is open . . .we're the ones that keep trying to close it, not God.  And even then, we don't have the authority to close what God has opened.  We can try to pretend . . . just as the priests did after the veil was ripped . . .we can try to go on with our lives "business as usual" but that doesn't change the fact that we're living in a draft . .due to the open door before us.

For me is is understanding that our carnal mind has not been completely eliminated in this life.   We can believe in Christ, yet our flesh feels comfortable.   You talk about pretending and thats a good way to put it.

Lately, I have really really been missing the people at the church I used to go to.   I am considering going back,  but not out of the co-dependance I once had.

It is the thought that there are people who need to hear this UR perspective that are not going to hear it with me pretending I should not be in a church building.

I think it is one of those processes.  Some teach that coming out of babylon means to not go to an organized church building.   I think the building is irrevalent.  I think it is to come out of the way of thinking that believes Christ does not have the power to fully accomplish his purpose.

The bible talks about using the foolishness of preaching to save those that believe.  I think maybe, some find it hard to believe that all are saved because too many of us run out of the building when we come to that realization.

I can continue pretending that I should not go back, because it is easy to not go,  it will be hard to go and at appropriate times share the UR message and stand firm in it.

Just some thoughts.

There are some who need to get away from the noise in  order to realign with the sound.  Like I've said before, I would probably do the same thing if I wasn't already a Pastor.  And even then, there are some days I wouldn't mind just doing my own thing, the desire is sometimes there, but I've also found everytime the worship begins, everything else just fades away. 

It would appear that the sound of Truth has realigned you and now, you're able and even hungry to return to the noise.  And I think God is going to use you now more than ever because regardless whether I believe in UR or not, the emphasis should always be relationship over doctrine any day.  It is through relationship with God that Truth is "revealed".  It's the same with each other.  Through the relationships God has orchestrated in you with others, the light in you can now shine into them and life can be planted in places where before . . .because you were out of the picture for a while, the planting would come from other sources. 

[Paul Hazelwood]

I believe our carnal nature is the prison and inside are many cells.  Our perfection comes from Christ unlocking the cells, the completion of that perfection is when we are enabled to walk out of the prison.

Amen Paul.  My carnality is what imprisons me.  Faith in Christ releases me from the prisons "within". 

Yes, but this freedom should percolate through all of society and through every society in the world.  But, it's not.  Things just seem to be getting worse.

One thing I have found over the years is that the majority of christians are not teaching an ounce of faith or freedom.

They are teaching turn or burn, no matter how pretty the DVD package is or how loving the missionary seems, the message is the same.  

We could possibly assume Molly, that when Christ says "You will do greater things than I" that maybe what you suggest is possible. I say that because Christ declared he did not come to bring peace on earth.

But until we are teaching a true faith message of freedom,  there is nothing to percolate but lies.