willieH: Hi Paul...
The term is still IRRELEVANT... as I noted, my arms and legs are alive, and are NOT "PUPPETS" even though they ARE part of My body, and fully cooperate with the WILL of my "head"...
Yes indeed it is irrevalent, because we are not puppets since puppets are not aware nor do they have any liberty directly apart from their puppet master.
Paul... to name a PUPPETMASTER is as irrelevant as naming PUPPETS... Liberty is IN CHRIST
, not in the NATURAL "will" which exists before HE
enters its circumstances... He comes upon the WILL of men, which are IN BONDAGE, and CREATES FREEDOM... by HIS WILL...
However, does a clay pot have any liberty apart from the potter? Well, if that was the "only" verse in the bible concerning our will and direction, perhaps.
If we have no liberty within our will to make choices based on what "we" prefer whether or not God knows the final score before hand, then, irrevalent or not, that IS what we are.
No, that is what YOU determine YOU "are
"... Do not include me in your grouping...
You reduce the WORD
of GOD to be a "report" of what MEN DID, instead of the proclamation of what HE SAID they would do... (Rom 11:32 / Rom 14:23)
is ETERNAL, and not dependent upon the actions of behaviors of MEN... or the chronological manifestation of TIME...
On the contrary... MEN are dependent upon HIS WORD
to be what and where they are in this realm... for HE is working ALL
(not some) THINGS
...after the counsel (advising) of HIS OWN WILL
(not the "will" of men) (Eph 1:11)
... not by their supposed and UNBIBLICAL, "free will"...
Free will is not entirely unscriptural or there would be no need for a verse such as this.
Ps 54:6 I will freely sacrifice unto thee: I will praise thy name, O LORD; for [it is] good.
Paul... thanks for quoting this verse, it absolutely
makes my point...
(1) Any "sacrifice" that is acceptable to GOD, is GOD INFLUENCED and COMMANDED... CAIN brought his (supposed) "free will" offering to GOD, and it was REJECTED because it was NOT what GOD had requested, rather it was what CAIN offered of HIS WILL, not GOD's... displaying that when MEN "choose", their "choosing", found OUTSIDE of the requests of GOD, is in fact, ...IN BONDAGE... and UNACCEPTABLE!
(2) GOD inhabits
PRAISE... (Ps 22:3)
, ...so any "PRAISE" that proceeds FROM MEN, is because GOD is bringing it forth, by His INHABITATION of it...
(3) Anything which is FREE (sacrifice in this case), is MADE
FREE by the WORD
of GOD (John 8:32, 36)
Nothing which is "FREE" or contains "PRAISE" for GOD, emerges from a HEART which by NATURE is DESPARATELY WICKED, Paul (Jer 17:9)
emerge from a DESPARATELY WICKED heart, is WICKEDNESS which is fervently, and selfishly (desparately) seeking its own...
It is the understanding of it that often is. Are we so free that we actually can choose an eternal hell? No, I believe not.
Are we so bound as not to ever be able to offer something to the Lord voluntarily? No I believe not.
What of YOUR WORK (which proceeds from YOU, of your "free will", UNINFLUENCED by CHRIST
) can you present before GOD, and EXPECT it to be ACCEPTABLE to Him, Paul? (1 Cor 3:10-15)
As I previously noted (in Cain's case - or any other man
), nothing, ...NOTHING we can "offer" to GOD is acceptable save CHRIST's
sacrifice on our behalf... all other offerings are FILTHY and UNACCEPTABLE... (as was Cain's "offering")
Is there a time when we are completely confined? Perhaps
Ro 8:7 because the disposition of the flesh is enmity to God, for it is not subject to the law of God, for neither is it able.
Is there a time when we can choose light or darkness and that choice is a matter of our will within what God sets before us? Perhaps
In this statement you propose (perhaps
) that YOU "CHOOSE" ...LIGHT
of your OWN DOING... [CHRIST
is the LIGHT - (John 1:9)
DEFYING the statement of Scripture which says:(John 6:44) ...no man CAN [is unable of himself to] come to ME, ...EXCEPT... the Father which hath sent Me, draw him...
Jn 8:11 Now she said, "No one, Lord!" Now Jesus said, "Neither am I condemning you. Go! From now on by no means any longer be sinning."
The prostitute was given light, perhaps before her encounter with Jesus she was bound and unable to do anything but be a prostitute. Could her encounter with Jesus bring that light and an amount of liberty, opening and broadening her will and her freedom?
:omg: You note a prostitute as IN FREEDOM... and that the "will" of this one, has her inherent NATURAL will ...enhanced... by its "broadening"!
She is OBVIOUSLY in BONDAGE, or her choice of profession would be HONORABLE... However, her choice of profession only serves to show that her "choosing" is anything but FREE... it is ENSLAVED to itself, standing outside that which IS
FREE ...(CHRIST - the WORD of GOD which CREATES FREEDOM)JESUS
is the WORD
... it is the WORD
which makes one FREE
... (John 8:32,36)
If we believe what SCRIPTURE states, ...that it is the WORD
which MAKES one FREE
... then one must be OTHERWISE, prior to the WORD
enacting FREEDOM in that one...
Relegating the WILL which is inherent and NATURAL, to be in a state which is EXEMPT
of FREEDOM, before the WORD
creates that characteristic within IT...
Okay... then you acknowledge that they were INSTRUCTED, yet failed to follow that INSTRUCTION, and thereby justify you own lack? The WILL of GOD is to be done exclusively in the HEAVENLIES and IN EARTH as well... (Matt 6:10)
Adam & Eve could not DISOBEY the INSTRUCTION unless the HEAD gave them the power to do so...
I point out that what you write is not as simple as you think you are explaining it. Did God's will for Adam and Eve include the instruction to do his will as you write in the quote below?
Furthermore... we are INSTRUCTED to do the WILL of GOD... and it is our DESTINY as well... so WHY not be AMIDST it even NOW, Paul?
Did Gods instruction to do the will of God include the instruction to Sin?
GOD DECLARED the End from the Beginning Paul... within the course of that DECLARATION, ...sin... occured in the middle... which means that MAN would SIN because GOD had DECLARED it to be so... HE concludes ALL in UNBELIEF, of HIS DECISION... You HAD no choice... you ARE a SINNER, because GOD concludes you in that state bro...
He did NOT instruct man to SIN, ...He DECLARED that man would SIN, and the WORD
of GOD always DECLARES the truth for the WORD
of GOD ...is... the TRUTH
! (John 14:6)
...the DECLARED SIN, was thereby manifest in the actions of Adam & Eve, and ALL subsequent men and women that followed them as their descendents...
The DECLARATION of GOD, sets in motion the NATURAL HABIT and GRAVITATION to DISOBEDIENCE of His Command, which IS SIN...
Not because "men" decide this... by the enaction of a will which they percieve as FREE, rather, by the TRUTH
that MEN are subject to the CREATOR and HIS MOLDING of them... (Jer 29:14 / 18:4)
which includes SUFFERING, SIN and DEATH in TIME, ...but IN ETERNITY, results in LIFE due the GRACE which MUCH MORE abounds in and amongst this process...
I do not speak to convince you of anything... rather, I pose opposition to what you "see" in Scripture now... thereby giving others a different "vision" of it...
And therefor making my point, "You" pose by the inclusion of the word "I".
Please Paul... I am a finite, and am obligated to use terms in communicating... That "I" use the word "I", is not a claim that "I" am FREE as an individual apart from GOD... rather is noting that another OUTSIDE yourself, is communicating with you...
GOD, in His declaration of our lives and His Creation, has given you and I the ability to "choose"... however, those choices are according TO, ...HIS Working of ALL THINGS which are subject to HIS WILL... Nothing in the creation of YHVH
is OUTSIDE of Him, as the Apostle Paul noted (Acts 17:28)
ALL that exists, and takes place, in Creation is WITHIN God... to INCLUDE ou
r BONDAGE and HIS
As I just stated, it is not my agenda to change what you believe... you are more than welcome to your observations... If and when words I post are in opposition of what you believe... you are welcome to take it or, ...leave it, ...no sweat!!
I have never posted any words suggesting that you must believe as I do, but if this instruction is important to you, then I know that you will follow your own advise.
...I did not IMPLY that you have stated this... I was volunteering to you, that you are welcome to reject anything I say...
...I can live with that, can you? ...hope so bro!
This is a discussion forum where we post our thoughts, since it is likely that you have not read every single post that I write, you will have no doubt missed posts where I accept the correction when how I see things appears to be in error.
I already live with that.
This is entirely true... Again, I wasn't trying to imply that you have no humility or are not one who accepts correction... only that if we are really seeking the truth, when GOD presents it to us in any given area, ...we must all lay ourselves prostrate before it...
btw... don't be so defensive bro... I look upon you as quite intelligent, and well-read!
Let that be a platform for confidence, and know that I do not seek to violate that confidence... My hope is to submit that which I believe concerning a premise (not only to YOU, but others which might read those thoughts), and then leave it in GOD's hands to either use it or not, as He should choose, ...TO whom He might choose to use it as information.