willieH: Hi brother TN...
Nice to be, chattin' wit-cha!
Man devises, he plans, he dreams. This all has to do with the mind, the heart. In the Old Testament the heart is the source of thoughts. It is the mind.
Humans are not robots. They are not a computer program.
I completely agree! Before there were robots or computer programs to refer to, what were they?
They were, what they are
... members of the BODY of CHRIST
... the MEMBERS of a BODY do not decide what they do... the HEAD decides what they do... and they UNKNOWINGLY perform (do) that which the HEAD intends they perform (do)...
GOD decided that His BODY shall KNOW what Good and Evil is... no "what ifs" exist in this project... Only the WILL of GOD in the end bro... for it is BOTH the BEGINNING and END of the project, said project = KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL...
That men "choose" does not mean they are in CONTROL
of those "choices"... as you later note in your words herein...EXAMPLE:
I (as the head) move my Left BARE FOOT forward for the next step... I accidently BANG it against an object, breaking a toe on my left foot...
My toe had nothing to do with itself getting injured... it was due to the DECISION made by my head...
I realize this is a FINITE observation... but the point is, that the HEAD decides what the BODY shall do... even though the RIGHT LEG and FOOT moved forward, bringing the other FOOT to injury, ...they, even though pivotal participants in the injury, ALSO had nothing to do with the injury as far as the DECISION which resulted in the injury...
Because my FOOT responds to the decision made by my HEAD, does not relegate it to being a ROBOT or COMPUTER program, neither does it relegate it to being a NON living entity... it is just subject, UNKNOWINGLY to the decisions of the HEAD... doing what the HEAD decides that it shall DO...
"The thoughts of the heart (mind) belong to man [FOOT] but the whole disposing thereof is of the Lord." [HEAD]
True... so who is really RUNNING
Your next words are PERFECT bro... and are the crux of my "foot" story...
We, as the members of the BODY of CHRIST
, do not KNOW
what we DO
... which is what CHRIST
said in His final moments: Father FORGIVE them, for they KNOW NOT, ...what they DO...
Your next words state this:
verb, -vised, -vis-ing, noun
–verb (used with object) 1. to contrive, plan, or elaborate; invent from existing principles or ideas: to devise a method.
Gen 50:20 And you, you devised against me evil, yet the Elohim devises it for me for good, that it may work out as at this day, to preserve alive many people.
Joseph's brothers had no idea that in opposing Joseph and trying to make sure his dreams came to nothing, they were unwittingly fulfilling God's hidden intention.
That men devise evil is the WILL of man actively being ITSELF, ...which "WILL" is created IN MAN, ...by GOD, who is WORKING ALL THINGS after the counself of HIS OWN WILL (Eph 1:11)
They meant it for evil or devised it for evil. Devising has to do with their mind. This has to do with their will. They willed what they were trying to accomplish concerning Joseph for evil.
(1) They could not "DEVISE", unless GOD's POWER were invested in them to DO so... which is about accomplishing the PURPOSE of GOD which is to teach His Children, "G & E"...
(2) That which you and I observe as our "will"... is nothing but the INTENTION of GOD in giving us the EXPERIENCE (through suffering the results) of EVIL (sin, suffering, death for ALL), that we may KNOW GOOD as well... (harmony, health, and life in the WILL of GOD - for ALL)
They dumped Joseph in an empty well and as part of their evil devising they slew one of Jacob's animals, took its blood and put that blood on Joseph's distinctive tunic. They then lied to Jacob. Jacob was a very wealthy man. Probably on the level of Bill Gates today. Had Jacob known that Joseph was sold as a slave into Egypt he would have marched down there and gotten his son back. But this was not in God's plan. God had to keep Jacob in the dark by having his son's lie to him.
Now comes the judging beginning in Genesis 42. Joseph continues to hide his identity and say they are spies. Later he hides money in their bags and hides his silver cup in their bag. They believe all this evil is now coming on them due to what they did to their younger brother Joseph. How true that was!
To make the story short, the final thing which rescues them from guilt is knowing that Joseph is not angry with them and that even though they devised or meant it for evil, God devised or meant if for good.
Again... The conclusion is that GOD uses
EVIL to accomplish GOOD, ...the one IN CONTROL is bringing about HIS PURPOSE, by the PRE-Planned Organization of the WILL's of ALL men... Which is HOW the "Pharaoh" thing was done:Rom 9:17
God RAISED pharaoh... to GLORIFY Himself in all the WORLD! HOW? By showing that the MOST POWERFUL MAN on earth (Pharaoh), is TOTALLY INCAPABLE of withholding the DELIVERANCE of GOD's people... by GOD...
How did GOD do it? BY (GOD) hardening and softening according to HIS WILL (Rom 9:18)
God's hand was controlling Joseph's brothers because He had to work it out to get Joseph into Egypt in order to be the Saviour of the world.
EXACTLY! If GOD's hand is CONTROLLING
... then Josephs brothers are NOT, ...even though it appears to us as FINITE MEN that we are "in control" by the supposed evidence of our individual "WILLS"... the TRUTH is that GOD is actually IN CONTROL... and our "wills" are essentially, the instruments which GOD uses to display TO US, the KNOWLEDGE of EVIL, by our individual EXPERIENCES with it, and its results...
HARMONY is achieved by ONENESS... when INDIVIDUAL intentions are in use... then theywill inevitably find OPPOSITION to one another... when ONE INTENTION is IN CONTROL... then HARMONY is founded...
I am a pro musician, and can testify that only the efforts of teamwork
dedicated to ONENESS
(in the same KEY, in the same TEMPO, in the correct PITCH), exhibits the MUSIC displayed before the listeners to be in HARMONY and excellence...
I believe that we are not all that far apart in our observations bro... and maybe we both are placed here in discussion, ...to tweak the other...
For we both KNOW ...WHO... is ACTUALLY, ...running the show