Author Topic: Why "Aeonian Life" is not necessarily eternality?  (Read 2531 times)

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PaoloNuevo

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Why "Aeonian Life" is not necessarily eternality?
« on: November 14, 2010, 03:05:46 AM »
John 3:36 (New International Version)

36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life,

John 10:10 (New International Version)

10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

... In John 3: 36, that whoever believes already has the life age-during (as the YLT would put it) and in 10: 10, Jesus indeed confirms that, that life of abundance begins today.

I think "life age during" or "age abiding life" doesn't necessarily mean forever? But rather it denotes completeness? Because, indeed age-during life begins today but you can only have it if you continue to stand firm in Christ, am I right?

Although those who die in Christ will join the ressurection TO life... but I'm just sharing something here that maybe age-during life or age-during punishment do not mean forever or infinity at all....  :bigGrin:

Only the aeonian God is infinite for He is king of the ages...


Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Why "Aeonian Life" is not necessarily eternality?
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2010, 09:05:12 AM »
The classic discussion is Matthew 25:46
If punishment is ending it mean life ends aswell.

There are various answers to that problem.
Answer #1: The same word can have diffrent durations. Read article HERE
Answer #2: An age simply ends. Read atricle by the site owner HERE

My :newb: view is that the sinners enter the torment for a limited time. Time that varies from sinner to sinner. Then they join the age of life with the other saints.
Then after a while everyone is refined into saints, (the ages end) and God is all in all.

So the torment part is just a little detour to the road of saints.
 :2c:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

PaoloNuevo

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Re: Why "Aeonian Life" is not necessarily eternality?
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2010, 02:46:55 PM »
Thanks WW, I luv this link in comic sans:

http://home.online.nl/spamfree/source/Matthew%2025_46.htm

Haha.. Well, but the punishment KOLASIN simply disproves the "eternality" of the chastening anyway because "eternal correction" wouldn't make sense... but I really found that explanation helpful. Where big solar system and big universe don't necessarily mean the same thing..

Thanks again. Blessings!  :icon_king:

Offline Aleax

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Re: Why "Aeonian Life" is not necessarily eternality?
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2010, 04:45:03 PM »
I don't believe Matthew 25:45 is about the Great White Throne judgment.
I see it happening between the present evil aeon and the Millennial reign.
The sheep are qualified to rule with Christ, the goats are disqualified.
In other words: 1,000 year kingdom life for saints, no 1,000 year kingdom life for sinners. 

No-one's receiving eternal life yet at that stage.
 
 :2c:
Behold, I make a few things new.

The Plan of The Ages: God's Unfailing Love Revealed in the Cross

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Why "Aeonian Life" is not necessarily eternality?
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2010, 06:03:18 PM »
No-one's receiving eternal life yet at that stage.
I agree.
Everlasting life starts after Jesus hands over His kingdom to Father. (all in all)

(I'm not sure the 1000 years a literally 1000 years)
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline shawn

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Re: Why "Aeonian Life" is not necessarily eternality?
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2010, 06:30:09 PM »
Death is abolished eventually so I believe all saints will eventually have eternal life.  Therefore any verse speaking about age enduring must be talking about something happening within an age. 

Offline jabcat

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Re: Why "Aeonian Life" is not necessarily eternality?
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2010, 07:36:13 PM »
Thanks WW, I luv this link in comic sans:

http://home.online.nl/spamfree/source/Matthew%2025_46.htm

Haha.. Well, but the punishment KOLASIN simply disproves the "eternality" of the chastening anyway because "eternal correction" wouldn't make sense... but I really found that explanation helpful. Where big solar system and big universe don't necessarily mean the same thing..

Thanks again. Blessings!  :icon_king:

WW, Gary is looking for some specific info, and I sent him a link to your tract last night.   :thumbsup:

Quick  :offtopic: comment - I'll post more about his project later - but if anyone knows of any excellent apologetic UR posts by another member, or if you have some of your own, plz be gathering them and place them in this thread;
 
 http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/hellbusters_hallow/major_project_need_major_help_8862.0.html 

OK, hijacker over and out.   :bigGrin:             

Offline marie glen

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Re: Why "Aeonian Life" is not necessarily eternality?
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2010, 01:28:07 AM »
John 3:36 (New International Version)

36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life,

John 10:10 (New International Version)

10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

... In John 3: 36, that whoever believes already has the life age-during (as the YLT would put it) and in 10: 10, Jesus indeed confirms that, that life of abundance begins today.

I think "life age during" or "age abiding life" doesn't necessarily mean forever? But rather it denotes completeness? Because, indeed age-during life begins today but you can only have it if you continue to stand firm in Christ, am I right?

Although those who die in Christ will join the ressurection TO life... but I'm just sharing something here that maybe age-during life or age-during punishment do not mean forever or infinity at all....  :bigGrin:

Only the aeonian God is infinite for He is king of the ages...

Maybe that's one reason I love that phrase "King of the ages" so much!

"Fullness".. "completeness.."

I'll never forget when I first looked up "forever" in the Greek concordance.. I couldn't find it and for quite a few minutes couldn't believe I couldn't find it, til I thought "da-ah! It must be two words!" [That was back in my thirties and I have even more short circuits these days!] And of course ever is aion, a space of time, duration, etc..
 - I love reading verses in one of those lexicons (is that what they're :laugh: called? mine says parallel interlinear translation :smile:) John 10:10 "...I came in order that life they may have and abundant they may have it."

There's a comment a few posts above I find also very interesting(among these many interesting posts).. "must be talking about something happening within an age"
- Is it written? no repentance after death? if resurrected still in ones sins (2nd Resurrection) will be weeping and wailing? Holy Days - Trumpets, Atonement, Tabernacles prophecy the three peaks of His long 2nd advent? Is weeping & wailing the beginning of the redemptive process?
``````````````````````````````````````````````````
- "...aLL things new" Rev21:5 "A new heavens and a new earth" Rev 21:1 - Is 11:7 Micah 4:4 Is 30:25
http://www.bubblews.com/news/9080033 -revelation told in rhyme - 45 days

Offline thinktank

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Re: Why "Aeonian Life" is not necessarily eternality?
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2010, 01:31:38 AM »
I don't believe Matthew 25:45 is about the Great White Throne judgment.
I see it happening between the present evil aeon and the Millennial reign.
The sheep are qualified to rule with Christ, the goats are disqualified.
In other words: 1,000 year kingdom life for saints, no 1,000 year kingdom life for sinners. 

No-one's receiving eternal life yet at that stage.
 
 :2c:

What about Paul hwen he says that we all will be changed in a twinkling of an eye, that we shall put on immortality.

Offline Aleax

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Re: Why "Aeonian Life" is not necessarily eternality?
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2010, 03:18:03 PM »
I don't believe Matthew 25:45 is about the Great White Throne judgment.
I see it happening between the present evil aeon and the Millennial reign.
The sheep are qualified to rule with Christ, the goats are disqualified.
In other words: 1,000 year kingdom life for saints, no 1,000 year kingdom life for sinners. 

No-one's receiving eternal life yet at that stage.
 
 :2c:

What about Paul hwen he says that we all will be changed in a twinkling of an eye, that we shall put on immortality.

We shall put on immortality but Kingdom Life isn't eternal life with God yet.
Time and sin still exist. Millennium isn't perfection yet.
Christ will have to rule the nations with an iron rod.
Satan will be let loose at the end of the Kingdom eon.
He will turn some of the believers against God.
So even if one receives aionian Kingdom Life there's a chance he/she will have to pass through the Lake of Fire.
Eternity only starts when all things have been made new and time ceases to exist.

As always, just my  :2c:
Behold, I make a few things new.

The Plan of The Ages: God's Unfailing Love Revealed in the Cross

Offline CHB

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Re: Why "Aeonian Life" is not necessarily eternality?
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2010, 05:36:54 PM »
Quote from: Aleax
Eternity only starts when all things have been made new and time ceases to exist.

Hi,
 
Eternity has always existed we are just not a part of it now, only God dwells in eternity.

CHB


Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Why "Aeonian Life" is not necessarily eternality?
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2010, 06:08:19 PM »
Only God is eternal but we are part of eternity.
Eternity is made of lots of seconds  :winkgrin:
But we will never be eternal. "Only" everlasting.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline CHB

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Re: Why "Aeonian Life" is not necessarily eternality?
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2010, 08:05:59 PM »
Only God is eternal but we are part of eternity.
Eternity is made of lots of seconds  :winkgrin:
But we will never be eternal. "Only" everlasting.

I agree with the first part but everlasting is eternal.

CHB

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Why "Aeonian Life" is not necessarily eternality?
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2010, 08:49:46 PM »
 :cloud9: He said I have life to give AND life everlasting, and He that believeth on Me shall never die. Sounds like to me if you never die, you are part of eternity in a spiritual sense, as well.  :winkgrin:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Why "Aeonian Life" is not necessarily eternality?
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2010, 08:59:41 PM »
I agree with the first part but everlasting is eternal.
I don't agree with that but you already know that from another thread. :bgdance:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Why "Aeonian Life" is not necessarily eternality?
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2010, 09:17:19 PM »
I agree with the first part but everlasting is eternal.
I don't agree with that but you already know that from another thread. :bgdance:

 :bgdance: :thumbsup:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline CHB

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Re: Why "Aeonian Life" is not necessarily eternality?
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2010, 01:32:52 AM »
I agree with the first part but everlasting is eternal.
I don't agree with that but you already know that from another thread. :bgdance:

That's ok.  :bgdance:  Every dictionary I looked in says everlasting is eternal.

CHB

Offline willieH

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Re: Why "Aeonian Life" is not necessarily eternality?
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2010, 03:26:49 AM »
willieH: Hi Aleax...  :cloud9:

I mean no harm in this answer... so please do not get upset at the commentary in it.   Nothing PERSONAL is projected toward you nor anyone else that might read it, nor is this an effort to change what you (or any other) might presently believe... rather it is given to afford you an opportunity to consider that the COMMON beliefs as held of Christianity (as CHRIST  pointed out -- Matt 7:22-23) ...are indeed BABYLONIAN, and the HARLOT which is mentioned in this book. 

MANY are prophesied to come in the name of CHRIST and shall DECIEVE ...MANY... (@ present, 2.5 BILLION call themselves "Christians", which are actively bearing VARYING messages about Him and His WORD)

Christianity on the whole shall not consider themselves as this prophesied entity... but the fact remains that it shall be BELIEVERS which come in the name (they call Him "LORD" which can only be done by the power of the Holy Spirit -- 1 Cor 12:3) -- and because they have called upon His name, they shall be SAVED... however... their presentations in claiming to REPRESENT Him, are REJECTED by HIM... for the TRUTH does not KNOW their presentations, they are INIQUITOUS...  :sigh:  TRUTH is NOT aligned with INIQUITY.

I just seek to point out that if we truly seek to BE SPIRITUAL and to gain SPIRITUAL understanding, then that understanding... will obviously DIFFER from a common observation that is done from an UNSPIRITUAL position, and arrives at UNSPIRITUAL "understandings" or conclusions, accordingly.

Most of the commentary done in this conversation is of COMMON belief within the Christian realm... and as I have already noted, does not differ to "understanding" that not only an UNBELIEVER in Christianity (a version of religion which holds CHRIST  as the Son of GOD -- sent of THE DIVINE being) might derive,  ...but an UNBELIEVER (athiest) that holds that NO DIVINE BEING exists at all!  :mshock:

As I see it... there are a few UNBIBLICAL premises mentioned in the discussion below... I have separated a few of the previous discussion quotes between you & Tank, to address them...

You are welcome to disagree with what I say... but in the end... if we "pick and choose"  SYMBOLISM in the Revelation of JESUS CHRIST  as "LITERAL", ...then we subject ourselves to defining the REVEALING of Him to be in finite terminology where it pleases US to do so...  :thumbdown:

IOW... the 1st Chapter notes the message of the Revelation to be SIGNIFIED... and does not indicate that portions of the message are otherwise... (i.e. LITERAL time periods... LITERAL administrations. etc.)

The notation of SIGNIFY is found in John 12:33 -- which uses the very same term found in Rev 1:1 -- Sema -- G4591 ...in the SYMBOLIC phrase that He would be "LIFTED UP from the earth" -- which noted the DEATH that He would DIE -- John 12:32 -- which caused "LITERAL MINDS" thinking in "LITERAL TERMS", to be BLINDED to what was said -- John 12:40 -- and were unable to HEAR, within the HARDNESS of their hearts...  :sigh:  NOT "getting it" at all... :pitiful:

Aleax, ...you said:

I don't believe Matthew 25:45 is about the Great White Throne judgment.
I see it happening between the present evil aeon and the Millennial reign.
The sheep are qualified to rule with Christ, the goats are disqualified.
In other words: 1,000 year kingdom life for saints, no 1,000 year kingdom life for sinners

No-one's receiving eternal life yet at that stage.
 
 :2c:

(1) --- "Great White throne Judgment" --- this appears in SYMBOLIC text -- Rev 20:11 -- and actually is a construed title garnered from those SYMBOLS which is NOT actually noted as this title alludes. (portraying it to be an "EVENT" which takes place at the "END"... and disregarding the words of CHRIST  which noted the JUDGMENT of the WORLD is NOW -- John 12:31)

(2) --- "Millennial reign" --- again, this is another UNBIBLICAL construct, which is gathered from SYMBOLISM. 

The WORD must define these things in order that the SYMBOLISM in this book be truly revealed.  Otherwise, an ATHIEST (can and does) arrive in reading the WORD of Revelation, at the same conclusions and determinations as those who claim to have SPIRITUAL and REVEALED understanding from GOD.

IOW -- an UNSPIRITUAL person reading the book of Revelation... can denote the "thousand years" as a 1000 years...  :dontknow:  Or that some HUGE "white throne" is involved.  :laughing7:

What about Paul hwen he says that we all will be changed in a twinkling of an eye, that we shall put on immortality.

We shall put on immortality but Kingdom Life isn't eternal life with God yet.Time and sin still exist. Millennium isn't perfection yet.

Your present observation is FINITE, necessitating the terms "YET" and "STILL EXIST"...

This comment assumes that the book of the REVELATION (revealing) of JESUS CHRIST, ...is speaking of TIME oriented procedures... instead of KEEPING IN MIND that THIS BOOK is about the REVEALING of an ETERNAL entity which is NOT LIMITED nor even affected by time whatsoever,  ...nor is FOUND to BE (when revealed) any different within ONE MOMENT, than He IS, in another...  the WORD of GOD -- Heb 13:8 -- and IS ABSOLUTELY NOT confined by TIME and FINITE procedures and doings which are TIME defined... :mnah:

If one truly wishes "understanding" of the Revelation of JESUS CHRIST... then one must note that the WORD [JESUS CHRIST] is the SAME in ALL MOMENTS... so the REVEALING of it, is REVEALED in ALL MOMENTS, the SAME... for "moments" are little portions of NOW, ...dissections of it, by the motion of TIME.   

TIME is nothing but NOW in motion.  When (and if) you realize this, you then shall KNOW that JESUS CHRIST  and the REVELATION of Him is in NOW... for that is "where" He EXISTS... 

IOW yesterday is NOW that is past (but still now concerning Him and His revelation), today is NOW that is present (still now concerning Him and His revealing), and the FUTURE is NOW as well, which (due to the motion of time) is yet to BE... all these are observations from FINITE perspective... moving in TIME, which are INCOMPLETE... because they are moving... for that which is COMPLETE is NOT moving, but STILL -- Psalm 46:10 -- Job 37:14

But from DIVINE perspective... NOW is NOW... and NOT in motion... rather is REVEALED in its COMPLETENESS before YHVH ...NOW... and Times MOTION which is entirely RELEVANT to US, ...is COMPLETELY irrelevant to HIM!

Christ will have to rule the nations with an iron rod.
Satan will be let loose at the end of the Kingdom eon.
He will turn some of the believers against God.

More finite proposals of the INFINITE...

The adversary/adversity to TRUTH IS loose -- wherever TRUTH is, that which is adverse to it IS as well...
There IS no "END" to the Kingdom of CHRIST's  reign! --
ALL have been (were, are, will be) concluded in UNBELIEF, by GOD! -- Rom 11:32

So even if one receives aionian Kingdom Life there's a chance he/she will have to pass through the Lake of Fire.

ALL are participants in the LOF... for UNBELIEF --- in which ALL have been concluded, is a qualifier for it -- Rev 21:8 --  Not only that, but all the rest of the qualifying elements for the LAKE OF FIRE are possessed by ALL for GOD is IMPARTIAL to ALL...

As CHRIST  and His Apostles, revealed in their ministries such as ---> to Look in lust (not even committing the physical act) is ADULTERY -- Matt 5:28 -- and to HATE a brother, is MURDER -- 1 John 3:15 -- which is taking place at this very forum... and the WITNESS born of Him in FALLACY is FALSE and BELIEVERS shall do so -- Matt 7:22-23... ALL THESE are qualifications for the Lake of Fire -- Rev 21:8

Some are found OVERESTEEMING him/herself, thinking him/herself as "righteous" when the WORD CLEARLY says that NONE are "righteous" -- Rom 3:10-12 -- Psalm 14:1-3 -- Anyone proposing themselves as "righteous" are actively, ...LYING to themselves as welll as to others (bearing false witness).  Which, again, is another qualifiying attribute for the LAKE of FIRE... teaching others to FEAR when to be "FEARFUL" is a qualification of the Lake of FIRE...

THIS life ...IS... the LAKE of FIRE, brother Aleax... and in and through many FIERY trials, do ALL we walk, in our journey through the Revelation of JESUS CHRIST, in which is found, the LIVING knowledge of good and evil -- Eph 6:16 -- 1 Pet 4:12

Eternity only starts when all things have been made new and time ceases to exist.

As always, just my  :2c:

Eternity "starts"?   :laugh:  (not laughing at you brother, ...the comment is quite humorous, and I have made many candid statements which are every bit a laughable and humorous in my 65 years of life, so don't feel bad, bro!)   :friendstu:

ETERNITY has NEVER "started", neither shall it EVER find an "END"... for it has neither of these FINITE properties.

ETERNITY is not measured by "beginnings and endings"... it is measured by the ONE who has NO BEGINNING or END... YHVH God! --- who IS COMPLETE and without measurement.

:Peace:

willieH  :HeartThrob:

Offline Lefein

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Re: Why "Aeonian Life" is not necessarily eternality?
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2010, 04:15:23 AM »
Concerning Eternal Life;

Life is lived when it is received - Life begins when it is recieved.

The aionian lfe is not an age, or a period of time, or an event, or a timeline, or a lifespan, or a quality of existence that is a person's own path - eternal path, never ending path or not.

The life God gives us is his own life, and not just his own life, but the aionian life God gives us is Himself - the life God gives us is Him.  You see, God is Life, and so life of any sort springs out of him, he is the fountain-head, the source, the glacier from which all rivers, and tributaries, and trickles of life come.  He is the living water, and so he bathes us in it, and sets his spring in us to nourish us. 

What we I think often forget, when thinking about aionian, or everlasting life, is that this isn't a thing - it is a person, and a quality of life that illuminates out of the person into the member that receives its glowing presence in them. 

The aionian life isn't our own personal faucet, or glacier that provides the water, but it is God himself who makes us into flowing rivers that find their source in Him.  We are on earth like stangnant trails of muck, with just enough trickling water to stir a semblence of being alive - breathing, moving, active...but barely alive.  And if we are unbelievers, we dry up and so die without the water having flowed in our lives - which God will flow eventually being all in all, the source of every rushing river, every tranquil tributary, and every rippling water fall, great and small.  There shall be no sea - but from His throne comes the river of life, which will flow upon the Earth into every watery place, life flowing abundantly with it.

God's life that he gives us, is God's life - the aionian life is Life's Life.  The aionian life, is God himself.  And so it is Eternal, it is Everlasting, it is Forever, it is without beginning or end, because our life becomes God's life - our life, becomes God who has no beginning, or end.

When we receive Jesus - when we let Jesus in, answering the door upon which he is knocking, the door that is our existence here - we receive Life, because Jesus is the Truth, the Life, and the Way; especially he is the Life.  And when receiving Life, our stagnant river becomes a part of, and one with the living water system that has flowed forever, and has never stopped flowing, because we become a part of, and one with God, who is the living water - we become one with him, in him, and he in us, our life is hidden away with Christ, our life is hidden away with Life, like a lump of leaven (leaven back then was just a little bit of fermented bread) in the lump of bread, which spreads and expands, and expands and grows in quality ceaselessly, and without end.

Our Lord, when he gives us his Life, gives us his life here and now - not later, but now, and we receive that life with open hands.  That life becomes fully expressed later when our body of flesh and our souls are crucified and made obedient to our spirit which is one with The Spirit, but we have Life here and now, and it is a life that is indeed eternal, because God who is our Aionian Life is eternal.

When we receive the Aionian Life - God, we live forever, and our life has no beginning or end, we become vessels for eternal life, beginningless-endless life to dwell in, and we get it immediately upon reception.

That is how our lives are hidden away with Christ, and how we sit in the heavenly places even while being on the Earth - because our Life is God who is sitting in heavenly places, and because Christ is in God, and God is in him, Life is in Life, and Life is in us and we are in Life, hidden away in it as it is hidden away in us...

Praise God in the Highest, for our aionian life is him, and we live it in the now, just as he is in the now, for he is the I AM, and our life is as that I AM, for our life is that I AM, always has been, and always shall be that I AM, who is without beginning, or end, who is eternal - inhabiting eternity; as now do we who have him, are in him, and are full of him.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 04:19:34 AM by Lefein »
CLV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred, it rouses up quarrels, Yet love covers over all transgressions.
KJV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.

PaoloNuevo

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Re: Why "Aeonian Life" is not necessarily eternality?
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2010, 05:49:11 AM »
Quote
Life is lived when it is received - Life begins when it is recieved.

The aionian lfe is not an age, or a period of time, or an event, or a timeline, or a lifespan, or a quality of existence that is a person's own path - eternal path, never ending path or not.

The life God gives us is his own life, and not just his own life, but the aionian life God gives us is Himself - the life God gives us is Him.  You see, God is Life, and so life of any sort springs out of him, he is the fountain-head, the source, the glacier from which all rivers, and tributaries, and trickles of life come.  He is the living water, and so he bathes us in it, and sets his spring in us to nourish us.

What we I think often forget, when thinking about aionian, or everlasting life, is that this isn't a thing - it is a person, and a quality of life that illuminates out of the person into the member that receives its glowing presence in them.

The aionian life isn't our own personal faucet, or glacier that provides the water, but it is God himself who makes us into flowing rivers that find their source in Him.  We are on earth like stangnant trails of muck, with just enough trickling water to stir a semblence of being alive - breathing, moving, active...but barely alive.  And if we are unbelievers, we dry up and so die without the water having flowed in our lives - which God will flow eventually being all in all, the source of every rushing river, every tranquil tributary, and every rippling water fall, great and small.  There shall be no sea - but from His throne comes the river of life, which will flow upon the Earth into every watery place, life flowing abundantly with it.

God's life that he gives us, is God's life - the aionian life is Life's Life.  The aionian life, is God himself.  And so it is Eternal, it is Everlasting, it is Forever, it is without beginning or end, because our life becomes God's life - our life, becomes God who has no beginning, or end.

When we receive Jesus - when we let Jesus in, answering the door upon which he is knocking, the door that is our existence here - we receive Life, because Jesus is the Truth, the Life, and the Way; especially he is the Life.  And when receiving Life, our stagnant river becomes a part of, and one with the living water system that has flowed forever, and has never stopped flowing, because we become a part of, and one with God, who is the living water - we become one with him, in him, and he in us, our life is hidden away with Christ, our life is hidden away with Life, like a lump of leaven (leaven back then was just a little bit of fermented bread) in the lump of bread, which spreads and expands, and expands and grows in quality ceaselessly, and without end.

Our Lord, when he gives us his Life, gives us his life here and now - not later, but now, and we receive that life with open hands.  That life becomes fully expressed later when our body of flesh and our souls are crucified and made obedient to our spirit which is one with The Spirit, but we have Life here and now, and it is a life that is indeed eternal, because God who is our Aionian Life is eternal.

When we receive the Aionian Life - God, we live forever, and our life has no beginning or end, we become vessels for eternal life, beginningless-endless life to dwell in, and we get it immediately upon reception.

 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Offline Aleax

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Re: Why "Aeonian Life" is not necessarily eternality?
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2010, 03:14:49 PM »
Hi Willie,

I wasn't offended at all.
I'm a spiritual baby and I don't claim to know much.
That, and I'm writing in what's officially only my 3rd language, so I only need to be a bit careless to end up saying something silly I guess.  :bigGrin:

I meant to write "everlasting life starts" instead of "eternity starts".
I will read your post more properly later on...
Behold, I make a few things new.

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Re: Why "Aeonian Life" is not necessarily eternality?
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2010, 05:55:28 PM »
 :cloud9: Wow....THIRD language? If I may ask, what is your native one? Your English looks pretty good to me.... :thumbsup:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline CHB

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Re: Why "Aeonian Life" is not necessarily eternality?
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2010, 10:00:41 PM »
Concerning Eternal Life;

Life is lived when it is received - Life begins when it is recieved.

The aionian lfe is not an age, or a period of time, or an event, or a timeline, or a lifespan, or a quality of existence that is a person's own path - eternal path, never ending path or not.

The life God gives us is his own life, and not just his own life, but the aionian life God gives us is Himself - the life God gives us is Him.  You see, God is Life, and so life of any sort springs out of him, he is the fountain-head, the source, the glacier from which all rivers, and tributaries, and trickles of life come.  He is the living water, and so he bathes us in it, and sets his spring in us to nourish us. 

What we I think often forget, when thinking about aionian, or everlasting life, is that this isn't a thing - it is a person, and a quality of life that illuminates out of the person into the member that receives its glowing presence in them. 

The aionian life isn't our own personal faucet, or glacier that provides the water, but it is God himself who makes us into flowing rivers that find their source in Him.  We are on earth like stangnant trails of muck, with just enough trickling water to stir a semblence of being alive - breathing, moving, active...but barely alive.  And if we are unbelievers, we dry up and so die without the water having flowed in our lives - which God will flow eventually being all in all, the source of every rushing river, every tranquil tributary, and every rippling water fall, great and small.  There shall be no sea - but from His throne comes the river of life, which will flow upon the Earth into every watery place, life flowing abundantly with it.

God's life that he gives us, is God's life - the aionian life is Life's Life.  The aionian life, is God himself.  And so it is Eternal, it is Everlasting, it is Forever, it is without beginning or end, because our life becomes God's life - our life, becomes God who has no beginning, or end.

When we receive Jesus - when we let Jesus in, answering the door upon which he is knocking, the door that is our existence here - we receive Life, because Jesus is the Truth, the Life, and the Way; especially he is the Life.  And when receiving Life, our stagnant river becomes a part of, and one with the living water system that has flowed forever, and has never stopped flowing, because we become a part of, and one with God, who is the living water - we become one with him, in him, and he in us, our life is hidden away with Christ, our life is hidden away with Life, like a lump of leaven (leaven back then was just a little bit of fermented bread) in the lump of bread, which spreads and expands, and expands and grows in quality ceaselessly, and without end.

Our Lord, when he gives us his Life, gives us his life here and now - not later, but now, and we receive that life with open hands.  That life becomes fully expressed later when our body of flesh and our souls are crucified and made obedient to our spirit which is one with The Spirit, but we have Life here and now, and it is a life that is indeed eternal, because God who is our Aionian Life is eternal.

When we receive the Aionian Life - God, we live forever, and our life has no beginning or end, we become vessels for eternal life, beginningless-endless life to dwell in, and we get it immediately upon reception.

That is how our lives are hidden away with Christ, and how we sit in the heavenly places even while being on the Earth - because our Life is God who is sitting in heavenly places, and because Christ is in God, and God is in him, Life is in Life, and Life is in us and we are in Life, hidden away in it as it is hidden away in us...

Praise God in the Highest, for our aionian life is him, and we live it in the now, just as he is in the now, for he is the I AM, and our life is as that I AM, for our life is that I AM, always has been, and always shall be that I AM, who is without beginning, or end, who is eternal - inhabiting eternity; as now do we who have him, are in him, and are full of him.

Hi Lefein,

What you say makes sense but if this is true then what about the verse that says ( Matt. 25:46) "And these shall go away into EVERLASTING punishment: but the righteous into lLIFE ETERNAL"? Isn't everlasting and eternal the same word in Greek?

CHB

Offline Lefein

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Re: Why "Aeonian Life" is not necessarily eternality?
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2010, 10:24:13 PM »
The key to that CHB, is in the word that the adjective aionios is modifying.

Everlasting Life vs. Everlasting Punishment, is the comparatively the same idea as Long life and Long punishment, but that's basic stuff.

The thing is, we all know that the word "punishment" is Kolasin which is chastisement, which by its very essence of term is temporal.  Because chastisement is a means to a remedial end.  It has an end, even if that end be long, or aionian.

However, Life, is long, and long here does not necessarily mean an end, because Life does not necessarily mean an end, not in the context of what Jesus is talking about anyway.  The life he is offering, is himself - who is I AM, which being God by default means "without beginning or end, and of the highest quality".
CLV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred, it rouses up quarrels, Yet love covers over all transgressions.
KJV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.

Offline thinktank

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Re: Why "Aeonian Life" is not necessarily eternality?
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2010, 11:06:01 PM »
The key to that CHB, is in the word that the adjective aionios is modifying.

Everlasting Life vs. Everlasting Punishment, is the comparatively the same idea as Long life and Long punishment, but that's basic stuff.

The thing is, we all know that the word "punishment" is Kolasin which is chastisement, which by its very essence of term is temporal.  Because chastisement is a means to a remedial end.  It has an end, even if that end be long, or aionian.

However, Life, is long, and long here does not necessarily mean an end, because Life does not necessarily mean an end, not in the context of what Jesus is talking about anyway.  The life he is offering, is himself - who is I AM, which being God by default means "without beginning or end, and of the highest quality".


Interesting that when we sleep we dream. This could be the kind of conciousness that people have when they die, a strange kind of world similar to our dreams, that sometimes can be pleasant or a nightmare. Someone close to Christ may be found of christ and someone who is not close to christ cannot see christ and are lost in the supernatural world of the spirit.

All this is just a few thoughts, another perspective on the difference between the bodily resurection at the last trump, where people are fully aware and are raised to the real heaven mount zion/heavenly Jerusalem, and the difference between Lazarus type sleep, where the spirit/soul is in a dream world. Maybe that's why nders have diferent ideas worlds of heaven and God. I have noticed that nders approach Jesus, like he's the earthly Jesus, rather than the heavenly Jesus who is full of glory and makes christians fall on their knees because of the glory. Also some nders are approached by Mohammed etc. It seems to be they are in their own dream world, constructed by their spirit, who is made in Gods image and can therefore create to an extent imagined worlds, and those such as the thief on the cross, feel redeemed in their spirit, so in their dream spirit world, God is able to penetrate their dream world and be with them.
 :2c: