willieH: Hi Aleax...
I mean no harm in this answer... so please do not get upset at the commentary in it. Nothing PERSONAL is projected toward you nor anyone else that might read it, nor is this an effort to change what you (or any other) might presently believe... rather it is given to afford you an opportunity to consider that the COMMON beliefs as held of Christianity (as CHRIST
pointed out -- Matt 7:22-23
) ...are indeed BABYLONIAN, and the HARLOT which is mentioned in this book. MANY
are prophesied to come in the name of CHRIST
and shall DECIEVE ...MANY
... (@ present, 2.5 BILLION call themselves "Christians", which are actively bearing VARYING messages about Him and His WORD
Christianity on the whole shall not consider themselves as this prophesied entity... but the fact remains that it shall be BELIEVERS
which come in the name (they call Him "LORD" which can only be done by the power of the Holy Spirit -- 1 Cor 12:3
) -- and because they have called upon His name, they shall be SAVED... however... their presentations in claiming to REPRESENT Him, are REJECTED by HIM... for the TRUTH does not KNOW their presentations, they are INIQUITOUS...
TRUTH is NOT aligned with INIQUITY.
I just seek to point out that if we truly seek to BE SPIRITUAL and to gain SPIRITUAL understanding, then that understanding... will obviously DIFFER from a common observation that is done from an UNSPIRITUAL position, and arrives at UNSPIRITUAL "understandings" or conclusions, accordingly.
Most of the commentary done in this conversation is of COMMON belief within the Christian realm... and as I have already noted, does not differ to "understanding" that not only an UNBELIEVER in Christianity (a version of religion which holds CHRIST
as the Son of GOD -- sent of THE DIVINE being) might derive, ...but an UNBELIEVER (athiest) that holds that NO DIVINE BEING exists at all!
As I see it... there are a few UNBIBLICAL premises mentioned in the discussion below... I have separated a few of the previous discussion quotes between you & Tank, to address them...
You are welcome to disagree with what I say... but in the end... if we "pick and choose" SYMBOLISM in the Revelation of JESUS CHRIST
as "LITERAL", ...then we subject ourselves to defining the REVEALING of Him to be in finite terminology where it pleases US
to do so...
IOW... the 1st Chapter notes the message of the Revelation to be SIGNIFIED
... and does not indicate that portions of the message are otherwise... (i.e. LITERAL time periods... LITERAL administrations. etc.)
The notation of SIGNIFY is found in John 12:33
-- which uses the very same term found in Rev 1:1
-- Sema -- G4591
...in the SYMBOLIC phrase that He would be "LIFTED UP from the earth" -- which noted the DEATH that He would DIE -- John 12:32
-- which caused "LITERAL MINDS" thinking in "LITERAL TERMS", to be BLINDED to what was said -- John 12:40
-- and were unable to HEAR, within the HARDNESS of their hearts...
NOT "getting it" at all...
Aleax, ...you said:
I don't believe Matthew 25:45 is about the Great White Throne judgment.(1)
I see it happening between the present evil aeon and the Millennial reign.
The sheep are qualified to rule with Christ, the goats are disqualified.
In other words: 1,000 year kingdom life for saints, no 1,000 year kingdom life for sinners.
No-one's receiving eternal life yet at that stage.
--- "Great White throne Judgment
" --- this appears in SYMBOLIC text -- Rev 20:11
-- and actually is a construed title garnered from those SYMBOLS which is NOT actually noted as this title alludes. (portraying it to be an "EVENT" which takes place at the "END"... and disregarding the words of CHRIST
which noted the JUDGMENT of the WORLD is NOW -- John 12:31
--- "Millennial reign
" --- again, this is another UNBIBLICAL construct, which is gathered from SYMBOLISM.
must define these things in order that the SYMBOLISM in this book be truly revealed. Otherwise, an ATHIEST (can and does) arrive in reading the WORD of Revelation, at the same conclusions and determinations as those who claim to have SPIRITUAL and REVEALED understanding from GOD.
IOW -- an UNSPIRITUAL person reading the book of Revelation... can denote the "thousand years" as a 1000 years...
Or that some HUGE "white throne" is involved.
What about Paul hwen he says that we all will be changed in a twinkling of an eye, that we shall put on immortality.
We shall put on immortality but Kingdom Life isn't eternal life with God yet.Time and sin still exist. Millennium isn't perfection yet.
Your present observation is FINITE, necessitating the terms "YET" and "STILL EXIST"...
This comment assumes that the book of the REVELATION (revealing) of JESUS CHRIST
, ...is speaking of TIME oriented procedures... instead of KEEPING IN MIND that THIS BOOK is about the REVEALING of an ETERNAL entity which is NOT LIMITED nor even affected by time whatsoever, ...nor is FOUND to BE (when revealed) any different within ONE MOMENT, than He IS, in another... the WORD
of GOD -- Heb 13:8
-- and IS ABSOLUTELY NOT confined by TIME and FINITE procedures and doings which are TIME defined...
If one truly wishes "understanding" of the Revelation of JESUS CHRIST
... then one must note that the WORD
] is the SAME
in ALL MOMENTS... so the REVEALING of it, is REVEALED in ALL
MOMENTS, the SAME... for "moments" are little portions of NOW, ...dissections of it, by the motion of TIME.
TIME is nothing but NOW
in motion. When (and if) you realize this, you then shall KNOW that JESUS CHRIST
and the REVELATION of Him is in NOW
... for that is "where" He EXISTS...
IOW yesterday is NOW that is past (but still now concerning Him and His revelation), today is NOW that is present (still now concerning Him and His revealing), and the FUTURE is NOW as well, which (due to the motion of time) is yet to BE... all these are observations from FINITE perspective... moving in TIME, which are INCOMPLETE... because they are moving... for that which is COMPLETE is NOT moving, but STILL -- Psalm 46:10 -- Job 37:14
But from DIVINE perspective... NOW is NOW... and NOT in motion... rather is REVEALED in its COMPLETENESS before YHVH
...NOW... and Times MOTION which is entirely RELEVANT to US, ...is COMPLETELY irrelevant to HIM!
Christ will have to rule the nations with an iron rod.
Satan will be let loose at the end of the Kingdom eon.
He will turn some of the believers against God.
proposals of the INFINITE...
The adversary/adversity to TRUTH IS
loose -- wherever TRUTH is, that which is adverse to it IS
no "END" to the Kingdom of CHRIST's
ALL have been (were, are, will be) concluded in UNBELIEF, by GOD! -- Rom 11:32
So even if one receives aionian Kingdom Life there's a chance he/she will have to pass through the Lake of Fire.
ALL are participants in the LOF... for UNBELIEF --- in which ALL have been concluded, is a qualifier for it -- Rev 21:8
-- Not only that, but all the rest of the qualifying elements for the LAKE OF FIRE are possessed by ALL for GOD is IMPARTIAL to ALL...
and His Apostles, revealed in their ministries such as ---> to Look in lust
(not even committing the physical act) is ADULTERY
-- Matt 5:28
-- and to HATE a brother
, is MURDER
-- 1 John 3:15
-- which is taking place at this very forum... and the WITNESS born of Him in FALLACY is FALSE and BELIEVERS shall do so -- Matt 7:22-23
... ALL THESE are qualifications for the Lake of Fire -- Rev 21:8
Some are found OVERESTEEMING him/herself, thinking him/herself as "righteous" when the WORD
CLEARLY says that NONE
are "righteous" -- Rom 3:10-12 -- Psalm 14:1-3
-- Anyone proposing themselves as "righteous" are actively, ...LYING to themselves as welll as to others (bearing false witness). Which, again, is another qualifiying attribute for the LAKE of FIRE... teaching others to FEAR
when to be "FEARFUL
" is a qualification of the Lake of FIRE...
THIS life ...IS
... the LAKE of FIRE, brother Aleax... and in and through many FIERY trials, do ALL we walk, in our journey through the Revelation of JESUS CHRIST
, in which is found, the LIVING knowledge of good and evil -- Eph 6:16 -- 1 Pet 4:12
Eternity only starts when all things have been made new and time ceases to exist.Eternity "starts"
As always, just my
(not laughing at you brother, ...the comment is quite humorous, and I have made many candid statements which are every bit a laughable and humorous in my 65 years of life, so don't feel bad, bro!)
ETERNITY has NEVER "started", neither shall it EVER find an "END"... for it has neither of these FINITE properties.
ETERNITY is not measured by "beginnings and endings"... it is measured by the ONE who has NO BEGINNING or END... YHVH
God! --- who IS COMPLETE and without measurement.