Author Topic: Why?!  (Read 3867 times)

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IceDash

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Why?!
« on: February 21, 2009, 01:17:33 AM »
Hello all.


If the good news is so wonderful, why Paul, Peter and the others was tortured? I can't iamge being cut in two, or skinned alive. I do not understand the past.

Do you think if Paul seen the future and he might said, "I wish I was born in 1980 or 1970 because there are no more torture, I mean, hellfire preacher even didn't get tortured, why me lord?! WHY! these people right now killing me when I tell them the good news that they will be saved because God love us but they skinning me alive, it burn! my muscle itch! IT HURT! please, it's hurt! Why they hurting me`~~~~~..."

after slow death of agony, he in sleep until Jesus return.

(this story is just a example)

My question is this:

Why they are being tortured or killed if the good news didn't involved hell but the preacher today preach that we are tortured forever in hell didn't get killed? Why is that?

Was it because the past is harsh than now, we are softer and didn't like to torture people? I bet Paul wish he was born now...

Offline Tony N

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Re: Why?!
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2009, 01:27:51 AM »
They were killed because people hate the light and love darkness for the acts are evil.
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

IceDash

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Re: Why?!
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2009, 01:30:03 AM »
but what about today? what the big differance between 40 AD and 2009 AD?

Offline Taffy

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Re: Why?!
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2009, 01:33:42 AM »
They were killed because people hate the light and love darkness for the acts are evil.
Hi Bro
Tis ya Bud Taffy :icon_flower:

Light- Darkness -Evil


I kinda see words relative to the happenings of the TIME....

Mat 16:3 And in the morning, [It will be] foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O [ye] hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not [discern] the signs of the times?


What do you mean by such terms?

Just curious Bro :icon_flower:
« Last Edit: February 21, 2009, 01:40:45 AM by Taffy »
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Molly

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Re: Why?!
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2009, 01:49:10 AM »
but what about today? what the big differance between 40 AD and 2009 AD?
I don't see any difference myself, except that this is now open and freely given to all who would receive it--



3 I heard a loud shout from the throne, saying, "Look, God's home is now among his people! He will live with them, and they will be his people. God himself will be with them."

--Rev 21

Offline sheila

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Re: Why?!
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2009, 01:53:44 AM »


  Hi Icedash;

    I don't think it's changed that much. There are Muslims

   whose whole goal in life is to kill all jews and christians

   and take over the world.

   
  Who knows whats going to happen?

                                        Sheila

martincisneros

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Re: Why?!
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2009, 02:17:36 AM »
The first century Church didn't really teach Universalism as a distinct subject, although I can find it in the writings of the first disciples of the Apostles to indicate that it was a passing point of doctrine that was acknowledged and perhaps understood to a limited extent.  The first century Church had the biggest part of their message devoted to proving the crucifixion and resurrection of the God-man, Christ Jesus, His Lordship "over all," repentance, a day of judgment coming, proving one's repentance by one's deeds, love, the absolute necessity of fellowship with fellow believers, holiness and warnings against false doctrines coming from docetism, gnosticism, etc. 

Their message was essentially/primarily God having proven the Lordship of Jesus Christ by raising Him from the dead, and thereby obligating all to repentance and belief in Christ Jesus.  Basically a modified version of the 4 spiritual laws pamphlets put out by Campus Crusade For Christ:

1. God has a wonderful play for your life;
2. Jesus was raised from the dead by God;
3. Through faith in Jesus you're justified from all things that you weren't justified by through the law of Moses;
4. Repent, make restitution, and believe the Gospel.

They were proclaiming both the ending of the polytheistic pagan culture and the monotheistic religious culture through Jesus Christ that had existed up until then.  People were devoted to their rituals, to all of the African, Greek, Roman, and Asian gods.  There was never this alls well that ends well abomination that many people nowadays mistake for Biblically [Cross and Blood-Centered] Christian Universalism.

Offline claypot

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Re: Why?!
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2009, 02:22:12 AM »
Hey Ice,

God has got a violent imagination I'm thinking. Really He must. He thought us up. He gave us abilities and these abilities can give us the power to do all sorts of nastiness. I'm sure He does not want us to use our abilities to do evil but we do and, again, He made us able to do so if we so choose. We can't get away from the fact that God must find some satisfaction in the horrible evils that abound. I don't mean He likes it but there must be something worthwhile in all the suffering and hardships we go through.

I think He goes through this pain and misery with us but still He's God and were not. He could stop all of it at any time.

These are just the plain facts of life as I see them.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Molly

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Re: Why?!
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2009, 02:23:22 AM »


  Hi Icedash;

    I don't think it's changed that much. There are Muslims

   whose whole goal in life is to kill all jews and christians

   and take over the world.

   
  Who knows whats going to happen?

                                        Sheila
And you know this...how?

Every generation has had their scapegoats.

Offline sheila

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Re: Why?!
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2009, 02:53:28 AM »


  Hi Molly

  Most of the worlds greatest atrocities have been through

 Religious wars.  The crusades,Hitler etc.


   I knew by the holy spirit before 911 that war was coming

  from the middle-east and that the economy would go.Banks

  fold.


   I told my husband and he scoffed at me...2 months later 911

   I know we all have some tough times ahead,but He will

  be with us through them all. We're not to be overly disturbed

  about them.


                                     Sheila

Offline jabcat

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Re: Why?!
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2009, 03:46:52 AM »
I think some have pretty openly made this goal known, haven't they?  That is if we can believe (at least some) things we read and are reported about it...which I know can be a minefield sorting through what the news reports  :wacko2:

I find your 911 information interesting Sheila.  Also, that you say we are not to worry, that He will be with us.  I do believe that's scriptural, but do you have specific, personal revelation(s) about that from the Spirit that you could share?

God's blessing, James.

Offline Molly

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Re: Why?!
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2009, 04:14:20 AM »
Surely, the Holy Spirit could show you the outline of the story that would be told. 

But, the story is not important.  The truth is.

The question I meant to ask is--how do you know this story is the truth?

Not, how do you know this is the story that would be told.

And, if our own Bible tells us that satan deceives the whole world--shouldn't that make us just a little wary of storylines?

Offline jabcat

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Re: Why?!
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2009, 05:07:03 AM »
Surely, the Holy Spirit could show you the outline of the story that would be told. 

?  Just interested in any specific revelations Sheila may have received.  Such as in, I sure didn't know 911 was going to happen...and if she did, that would have been enlightening to know...
« Last Edit: February 21, 2009, 05:18:00 AM by jabcat »

Offline Molly

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Re: Why?!
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2009, 05:17:14 AM »
Surely, the Holy Spirit could show you the outline of the story that would be told. 

?  Just interested in any specific revelations Sheila may have received.
Yes, sorry, I was addressing that to Sheila, not you.

Your post got in the middle somehow...

Offline jabcat

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Re: Why?!
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2009, 05:18:34 AM »
I thought about asking you if it was to me, I was a little confused...thanks, sorry too...and that's me...in the middle  :Oops:

Offline Molly

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Re: Why?!
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2009, 05:27:15 AM »
I thought about asking you if it was to me, I was a little confused...thanks, sorry too...and that's me...in the middle  :Oops:

well be more careful!  (just kidding...)

Here, have a flower. :icon_flower:

When I studied history in high school, I used to ask myself--how could all those people be fooled?

You see, they loved Hitler, at least at first.

They couldn't see where the whole thing was going until it was too late.

They believed everything they were told, until it was too late.

Truth is always the last guest at the table.

And, people love a good story...
« Last Edit: February 21, 2009, 05:34:17 AM by Molly »

Offline Pierac

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Re: Why?!
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2009, 05:58:51 AM »
CLV Ecc 1:13 I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens: it is an experience of evil Elohim (God) has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

CLV Ecc 9:12 For, moreover, a man does not know his season; Like fish that are held in a vicious weir, And like birds that are held in a snare, So the sons of humanity themselves are trapped by a season of evil, When it falls on them suddenly."   :mshock:

Why, Indeed?

Heb 5:8  Although He was a Son, He (Jesus) learned obedience from the things which He suffered

Joh 13:16  I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.

Which all leads back to...
CLV Ecc 1:13 I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens:it is an experience of evil Elohim (God) has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Why?!
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2009, 06:02:43 AM »
Good stuff Paul..
.
well be more careful!  (just kidding...)
 

I know...it was funny :)

Offline Raggedy Anne

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Re: Why?!
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2009, 06:09:14 AM »
CLV Ecc 1:13 I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens: it is an experience of evil Elohim (God) has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

CLV Ecc 9:12 For, moreover, a man does not know his season; Like fish that are held in a vicious weir, And like birds that are held in a snare, So the sons of humanity themselves are trapped by a season of evil, When it falls on them suddenly."   :mshock:

Why, Indeed?

Heb 5:8  Although He was a Son, He (Jesus) learned obedience from the things which He suffered

Joh 13:16  I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.

Which all leads back to...
CLV Ecc 1:13 I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens:it is an experience of evil Elohim (God) has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

Amen, and one of my favorite scriptures addresses suffering:

For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. - Romans 8:18

I see the whole human race as being on the cross, whether or not each individual is aware of the fact.

Peace -
Anne
Ours is not to make up anybody's mind, but to open hearts.
You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind.

Offline Molly

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Re: Why?!
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2009, 06:22:10 AM »
CLV Ecc 1:13 I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens: it is an experience of evil Elohim (God) has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

CLV Ecc 9:12 For, moreover, a man does not know his season; Like fish that are held in a vicious weir, And like birds that are held in a snare, So the sons of humanity themselves are trapped by a season of evil, When it falls on them suddenly."   :mshock:

Why, Indeed?

Heb 5:8  Although He was a Son, He (Jesus) learned obedience from the things which He suffered

Joh 13:16  I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.

Which all leads back to...
CLV Ecc 1:13 I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens:it is an experience of evil Elohim (God) has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

Amen, and one of my favorite scriptures addresses suffering:

For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. - Romans 8:18

I see the whole human race as being on the cross, whether or not each individual is aware of the fact.

Peace -
Anne


So, when are we going to be resurrected?

And, what about this:


18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

 19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

 20And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

 21And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.


--Luke 4



Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Why?!
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2009, 10:28:25 AM »
but what about today? what the big differance between 40 AD and 2009 AD?

There is no difference iD.
Neither where they killed for their religion. Only because they acted a little weird or some leader had a grudge.
It's not about telling something good or bad but about telling something different.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Why?!
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2009, 10:32:47 AM »


  Hi Icedash;

    I don't think it's changed that much. There are Muslims

   whose whole goal in life is to kill all jews and christians

   and take over the world.

   
  Who knows whats going to happen?

                                        Sheila
And you know this...how?

Perhaps because their religious leaders openly say so.
Perhaps because it's instructed in their books.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Tony N

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Re: Why?!
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2009, 12:59:09 PM »
They were killed because people hate the light and love darkness for the acts are evil.
Hi Bro
Tis ya Bud Taffy :icon_flower:

Light- Darkness -Evil


I kinda see words relative to the happenings of the TIME....

Mat 16:3 And in the morning, [It will be] foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O [ye] hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not [discern] the signs of the times?


What do you mean by such terms?

Just curious Bro :icon_flower:

Taffy, are you asking me what do I mean by men hate the light and love darkness?
I think the light is Jesus. The light is also the truth. The darkness is the lie? Maybe darkness is Satan?

Joh 3:19  And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

I think this is why they killed Jesus and the disciples so that the light wouldn't continue to expose their deeds because the killers didn't like the light spoiling their perfectly rotten lives.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2009, 02:40:02 PM by Tony N »
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline Taffy

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Re: Why?!
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2009, 01:54:32 PM »
They were killed because people hate the light and love darkness for the acts are evil.
Hi Bro
Tis ya Bud Taffy :icon_flower:

Light- Darkness -Evil


I kinda see words relative to the happenings of the TIME....

Mat 16:3 And in the morning, [It will be] foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O [ye] hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not [discern] the signs of the times?


What do you mean by such terms?

Just curious Bro :icon_flower:

Taffy, are you asking me what do I mean by men hate the light and love darkness?
I think the light is Jesus. The light is also the truth. The darkness is the lie? Maybe darkness is Satan?

Joh 3:19  And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

I think this is why they killed Jesus and the disciples so that the light because the killers didn't like the light spoiling their perfectly rotten lives.

Thanks for the response T...

hey....Tis your 1000 Post.... :icon_flower:

 :icon_flower:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Tony N

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Re: Why?!
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2009, 02:41:26 PM »

Thanks for the response T...

hey....Tis your 1000 Post.... :icon_flower:

 :icon_flower:

Hey, it's my millennial post  :laughing7:

Do I get something free for it?
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.