Author Topic: Who create sin in the first place?  (Read 8105 times)

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IceDash

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Who create sin in the first place?
« on: March 20, 2009, 08:24:12 AM »
It sure isn't the devil or Eve or Adam because we don't create them!

God create sin by putting the the tree of good and evil


Now, this bother me alot, the reason why is because God told Eve not to eat it (thereforehe knew she will do it anyway) but I find it interesting that God didn't warn Eve not to trust the snake! God know the future, God want Eve to eat the fruit, why?

Because God hate it when Eve and Adam are robot, he create human to love him or not, He did not want anyone to be the same

God do not want everyone said "yes" to God everytime! I think God want humans to understand good and evil, we cannot understand good and evil until God said it wrong to do that and it right to do that, God hate it when Adam and Eve said "yes" million times, I pretty sure God want them to said no, know why?

So God won't feel lonely, that's why he called us precious gems, because he love us but he want to learn

However, I am still trying to figure out why angels turn into a devil "WITHOUT" eating a fruit, this one tough


However, you people need to know that God knew the person that going to be born will hate God, did God create that person for nothing? If that true, it's doesn't make sense!

it like to trying to make a car with no wheel and you still use it and then for nothing

God is not a failure, not even us! God did everything he did, there no free wills (that's why we have prophetic, the future set in stone)

Come on people! Do you think God created eskimo who don't know God for nothing?!

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Who create sin in the first place?
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2009, 08:34:06 AM »
Satan is called the advesary; but it looks more and more he isn't.
A good advesary would not have tempted Eve.
That would have spoiled the planning of God..... :laughing7:

For the rest of your post: Yes I agree and think God setup the whole thing as a test and learning experience.
Even the fact the outcome is already known to Him doesn't mean there are no learning points in the process for us.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

IceDash

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Re: Who create sin in the first place?
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2009, 08:41:08 AM »
Satan is called the advesary; but it looks more and more he isn't.
A good advesary would not have tempted Eve.
That would have spoiled the planning of God..... :laughing7:

For the rest of your post: Yes I agree and think God setup the whole thing as a test and learning experience.
Even the fact the outcome is already known to Him doesn't mean there are no learning points in the process for us.

After Adam and Eve ate it, God came back walking like he doesn't what going on! that's kinda funny to me! He said : "Where are you, why are you hiding?"

He ask a puny humans that question who himself KNEW WHAT GOING ON!

Offline Raggedy Anne

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Re: Who create sin in the first place?
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2009, 02:51:07 PM »
IceDash -

You seem to be gaining much understanding by meditating on these things.  I agree with you about God not wanting robots.  We are God's offspring.  God knew of good and evil, but was never tempted with evil.  He desires us to KNOW Him with an understanding of things and to LEARN wisdom.  Our suffering, as awful as it is sometimes for we mortals is completely necessary for God to have the intimate relationship with us that He desires.   When we do not UNDERSTAND - our hurt is very great.  There are so many people who do not understand and are therefore angry and confused about the WHY of our existence.

Good post!
Anne
Ours is not to make up anybody's mind, but to open hearts.
You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind.

Offline legoman

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Re: Who create sin in the first place?
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2009, 03:14:14 PM »
Satan is called the advesary; but it looks more and more he isn't.
A good advesary would not have tempted Eve.
That would have spoiled the planning of God..... :laughing7:

For the rest of your post: Yes I agree and think God setup the whole thing as a test and learning experience.
Even the fact the outcome is already known to Him doesn't mean there are no learning points in the process for us.

After Adam and Eve ate it, God came back walking like he doesn't what going on! that's kinda funny to me! He said : "Where are you, why are you hiding?"

He ask a puny humans that question who himself KNEW WHAT GOING ON!

Yes, God is a master of the rhetorical question!  :winkgrin:

Ever ask a child "what's going on?" when you know full well he has his hand in the cookie jar?

Offline legoman

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Re: Who create sin in the first place?
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2009, 03:18:29 PM »
However, I am still trying to figure out why angels turn into a devil "WITHOUT" eating a fruit, this one tough

The key you are missing is that no angels (Lucifer or otherwise) turned into a "devil".  They were made that way to begin with!

Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

Job 26:13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.

John 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.


Don't believe the "Lucifer fell" myth.

Offline legoman

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Re: Who create sin in the first place?
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2009, 03:20:04 PM »
Come on people! Do you think God created eskimo who don't know God for nothing?!

That is a brilliant question!

IceDash

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Re: Who create sin in the first place?
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2009, 05:00:03 PM »
IceDash -

You seem to be gaining much understanding by meditating on these things.  I agree with you about God not wanting robots.  We are God's offspring.  God knew of good and evil, but was never tempted with evil.  He desires us to KNOW Him with an understanding of things and to LEARN wisdom.  Our suffering, as awful as it is sometimes for we mortals is completely necessary for God to have the intimate relationship with us that He desires.   When we do not UNDERSTAND - our hurt is very great.  There are so many people who do not understand and are therefore angry and confused about the WHY of our existence.

Good post!
Anne

Yes that's why when God come back, he said "everyone will know I am Lord" it's another saying of: "I told you, I still love you and you are still my people and you are yet still need to learn more but I am here now and I am back to fix thing the way you will understand!"

Satan is called the advesary; but it looks more and more he isn't.
A good advesary would not have tempted Eve.
That would have spoiled the planning of God..... :laughing7:

For the rest of your post: Yes I agree and think God setup the whole thing as a test and learning experience.
Even the fact the outcome is already known to Him doesn't mean there are no learning points in the process for us.

After Adam and Eve ate it, God came back walking like he doesn't what going on! that's kinda funny to me! He said : "Where are you, why are you hiding?"

He ask a puny humans that question who himself KNEW WHAT GOING ON!

Yes, God is a master of the rhetorical question!  :winkgrin:

Ever ask a child "what's going on?" when you know full well he has his hand in the cookie jar?

Lol, we all do, I never said God tempt people but sometime he control people in the bible, I found he "harden Pharoah's heart" when he told Moses, He also make Israel stubborn but not listening to God, (This one, I don't get it why God does that) God does thing in the bible I do not understand but I still love him not because of "I have to love him or I am going to hell" (Like many church do that!) I love him because there something God want us to understand.
However, I am still trying to figure out why angels turn into a devil "WITHOUT" eating a fruit, this one tough

The key you are missing is that no angels (Lucifer or otherwise) turned into a "devil".  They were made that way to begin with!

Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

Job 26:13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.

John 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.


Don't believe the "Lucifer fell" myth.

Daniel said that he saw God sitting on the throne with a river of fire flowing from his throne, is that the same place of "lake of fire" come from? God said he will throw the anti-christ and whoever follow the beast or took his "mark" will be throw there and I read Paul said something about we will be test by fire from our work, even good or bad people, we are still saved, and also John the baptist said that he will baptism people with water but Jesus will baptism people with fire

Noah's Ark, Moses split the red sea and Jesus's baptism all have the same meaning: killing the sins (or wash the sins away)

Every church believe once we dip in the water and rise out, our sins is done, then why we still doing sins!?

Didn't Jesus die on the cross for nothing? It said that He come to take away sins of the world, I am kinda suprised that church said "Jesus will cover the sins with blood" That's not taking away the sins, that covering!

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Who create sin in the first place?
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2009, 05:07:09 PM »
Daniel said that he saw God sitting on the throne with a river of fire flowing from his throne, is that the same place of "lake of fire" come from?

I have I no idea iD, but it makes me think of the sea of glass with fire in it.
Same connection?
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

IceDash

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Re: Who create sin in the first place?
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2009, 05:09:35 PM »
Daniel said that he saw God sitting on the throne with a river of fire flowing from his throne, is that the same place of "lake of fire" come from?

I have I no idea iD, but it makes me think of the sea of glass with fire in it.
Same connection?

Everything is full of "place of fire" in the bible, does it mean to purity the men's soul like changing coal to diamond, maybe...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Who create sin in the first place?
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2009, 05:22:26 PM »
Pressure and heat...
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline sheila

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Re: Who create sin in the first place?
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2009, 07:37:24 PM »
  when sand is superhated it turns into glass..

  you guys ever see that desert that a meteor hit and all

  the sheet of glass it formed?

Offline WhiteWings

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1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Who create sin in the first place?
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2009, 08:26:43 PM »
  when sand is superhated it turns into glass..

  you guys ever see that desert that a meteor hit and all

  the sheet of glass it formed?

 :cloud9: I saw that not too long ago, where they were looking for and found the source of some glass some desert peoples had made into jewelry. I can't remember now who or where it was. It was an archeologist hunting it, though. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline sheila

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Re: Who create sin in the first place?
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2009, 08:32:51 PM »
   Same principal,yes.But what I saw on t.v. showed

  actual sheets of glass

   I think of the scripture where he picks his jewels up one by

  one that are scatterd on the face of the earth.

   aren't some precious jems of the quartz family?

   yes, just looked it up,amethyst,citrine,bloodstone,agate

  and jasper.

   Sheila

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Who create sin in the first place?
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2009, 08:38:01 PM »
You mean this Sheila?

http://news.softpedia.com/news/The-Enigma-of-Desert-Glass-Solved-by-Meteorite-Collision-43248.shtml

 :cloud9: Well, I don't know about Sheila, but that was the one I was talking about. I saw a documentary on it on TV not long ago. I thought it was in Egypt, but wasn't sure as I watch all the documentaries I can catch. Blessings...
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline sheila

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Re: Who create sin in the first place?
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2009, 08:44:01 PM »
 that must be the one I saw too,then,cause I watched it on t.v.

                                     Sheila


Offline onlytruth

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Re: Who create sin in the first place?
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2009, 12:55:45 AM »
I still feel we created the sin...Eve conceived the thought.Now we must take every thought captive!Sometimes we do a good job with this ,other times we don't.
blessings :icon_king:

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Who create sin in the first place?
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2009, 09:29:33 AM »
Quote
I still feel we created the sin...Eve conceived the thought
Before or after the serpent tempted her....?
Who wired Eve's brain that she could sin?
What use is it to put one forbidden tree in a whole forest of trees?
A big happy place with just one rule and it goes wrong.
Now put humankind in imperfect world with 600+ laws (of Moses) and be suprised the laws get broken.
Add to that all the rules where 'hidden' for the majority of mankind for millenia.
Quote
I still feel we created the sin...Eve conceived the thought
:thinking:
« Last Edit: July 18, 2009, 10:40:44 AM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Molly

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Re: Who create sin in the first place?
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2009, 09:57:04 AM »
Quote
I still feel we created the sin...Eve conceived the thought
Before or after the serpent tempted her....?
Who wired Eve's brain that she could sin?
What use is it to put one forbidden tree in a whole forest of trees?
A big happy place with just one rule and it goes wrong.
Now put humankind in unperfect word with 600+ laws (of Moses) and be suprised the laws get broken.
Add to that all the rules where 'hidden' for the majority of mankinf for millenia.
Quote
I still feel we created the sin...Eve conceived the thought
:thinking:
Some good thoughts.

Eve's brain is wired to make independent choices, that doesn't mean she'll make good choices, and she fell for the argument of that used car salesman snake, since she had no spiritual discernment.

Really--without the snake, they would have lived happily ever after in the garden, because she got it right before the snake entranced her.

It is interesting that evil man loves his laws, mostly as applied to the other guy, though.




2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

 3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.


--Gen 3

Offline claypot

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Re: Who create sin in the first place?
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2009, 05:05:06 PM »
Molly, that's the way I see it too. Now to define what 'who' the snake is.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline claypot

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Re: Who create sin in the first place?
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2009, 05:06:50 PM »
Although let me add that I'm not sure if 'she got it right until the snake appeared'.

I see the lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes and pride of life in full operation BEFORE she dined.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline sheila

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Re: Who create sin in the first place?
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2009, 09:49:53 PM »
  Cp

  who put that thought in her 'head'  for you WILL BE LIKE GOD

  KNOWING GOOD AND EVIL....pride of life..be like God

  after this she kept looking at it, just like he who keeps looking

 at a woman.lustfully.....eyes full of adultery...what changed her

 perspective?Something made her look at it differently then she

 had before


  the heart becomes adulterous..after it sees with a different

 perspective...eyes full of adultery


  Daniel 7;8..this horn had eyes like the eyes of a man,and  a

mouth spoke boastfully Daniel 8;21 the horn that looked more

 imposing than the others and had eyes and a mouth that spoke

 boastfully. As I watched, this horn was waging war with the

saints and defeating them,until the Ancient of Days came and

pronounced judgement in favour of the saints


  Rev 5;6 then I saw a Lamb looking as if it had been slain,

 standing in the center of the throne,encircled by the four living

 creatures and the elders He had seven horns and seven eyes

which are the seven SPIRITS OF GOD sent out into all the earth

  well, if that be the case...what spirits are being sent out by

 the beast with ten horns and three  and a little horn and eyes.

  It can only be the spirits we know as anti-

christ,satan,adversary..as it wars with the saints...it has the

 eyes of the man of sin or man of lawlessness..it is a spirit of

the adversary being sent out in all the earth, just as in Gog and

Magog that same principle and force is sent out


   UNCLEAN INSPIRED EXPRESSION are opposite and adversarial

 to HOLY SPIRIT EXPRESSIONS

Offline claypot

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Re: Who create sin in the first place?
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2009, 04:44:50 AM »
  Cp

  who put that thought in her 'head'  for you WILL BE LIKE GOD

  KNOWING GOOD AND EVIL....pride of life..be like God

  after this she kept looking at it, just like he who keeps looking

 at a woman.lustfully.....eyes full of adultery...what changed her

 perspective?Something made her look at it differently then she

 had before


  the heart becomes adulterous..after it sees with a different

 perspective...eyes full of adultery


  Daniel 7;8..this horn had eyes like the eyes of a man,and  a

mouth spoke boastfully Daniel 8;21 the horn that looked more

 imposing than the others and had eyes and a mouth that spoke

 boastfully. As I watched, this horn was waging war with the

saints and defeating them,until the Ancient of Days came and

pronounced judgement in favour of the saints


  Rev 5;6 then I saw a Lamb looking as if it had been slain,

 standing in the center of the throne,encircled by the four living

 creatures and the elders He had seven horns and seven eyes

which are the seven SPIRITS OF GOD sent out into all the earth

  well, if that be the case...what spirits are being sent out by

 the beast with ten horns and three  and a little horn and eyes.

  It can only be the spirits we know as anti-

christ,satan,adversary..as it wars with the saints...it has the

 eyes of the man of sin or man of lawlessness..it is a spirit of

the adversary being sent out in all the earth, just as in Gog and

Magog that same principle and force is sent out


   UNCLEAN INSPIRED EXPRESSION are opposite and adversarial

 to HOLY SPIRIT EXPRESSIONS

She looked differently than she had before but she had the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eye, the pride of life 'ability' in her from day one IMO.

Sheila, you say it is the spirit of antichrist that is sent out……………..

I like that but who is doing the sending do you think?

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline claypot

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Re: Who create sin in the first place?
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2009, 04:55:38 AM »
I've always wondered about some statements in Scripture........

  But the  Spirit  of the LORD departed from Saul, and an  evil   spirit  from the LORD troubled him.1sam16.14

And it came to pass, when the [ evil ]  spirit  from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand:1sam16.23

  Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying  spirit  in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken  evil  concerning thee.1king22.23

  Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying  spirit  in the mouth of these thy prophets,2chron18.22

and so on.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.