Author Topic: What to do about church?  (Read 3885 times)

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painterb

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What to do about church?
« on: November 29, 2007, 01:31:15 AM »
It has been about 3 months since having been revealed the truth which is Universal reconciation.  I now find myelf struggling to go back to church.  I have been going to the local baptist church, but now i struggle with going back because I don't believe in their doctrine.  They preach of Hell and eternal torment and lost souls. 
Is anyone else in the same boat or what do you guys think???
b

Kept

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Re: What to do about church?
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2007, 02:03:55 AM »
I will be honest any brand of fundamentalism is going to begin really getting under your skin now that you know the truth. If you choose to go to a hell preaching church you will end up miserable

seen it many many times over

If you really want to attend a church better to find a more open one that doesnt focus so much on eternal torment

just my  :2c:

kept

Offline Taffy

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Re: What to do about church?
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2007, 02:18:43 AM »
It has been about 3 months since having been revealed the truth which is Universal reconciation.  I now find myelf struggling to go back to church.  I have been going to the local baptist church, but now i struggle with going back because I don't believe in their doctrine.  They preach of Hell and eternal torment and lost souls. 
Is anyone else in the same boat or what do you guys think???
b

Hi and a Belated Welcome PAINT :icon_flower:

Ive been where you are..quite some moons ago....

For mine ...THE knowledge OF universalism saves NO MAN..CHRIST DOES, many will pass away without coming to  understand the DEEPER things of GOD..that doesnt negate the fact where they are in thier walk....



Ive never read....Christ saying..believe IN universal Reconcilliation  as the premise FOR Salavation....


Nothing comes for FREE..your truly blessed bieng ABLE to see CU.....BUT  Before understanding it  ,did  THAT also it negate the FACT who your SAVIOR WAS......


Have patience....I recal Paul saying this.


2Cr 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. 



Blessings
Taffy





« Last Edit: November 29, 2007, 02:22:17 AM by Taffy »
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

painterb

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Re: What to do about church?
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2007, 02:29:56 AM »
taffy,

In saying what you have said,  do you believe that eternal hellers will see the eons to come?
b

Loveroftruth

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Re: What to do about church?
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2007, 02:42:46 AM »
WELCOME painterb  :welcome: :newb: :drummer: :curtsey: :banana: :trampoline: :angelharp: :grouppray:

This is just the beginning for you...... suddenly you will start to see much which doesn't quite feel like the truth...... 

There is a wonderful place outside of Egypt ... its scary to leave but once alone in the wilderness you find HIM and then, there is no other place you would rather be  :HeartThrob:

WELCOME!! :girlheart:


Offline Taffy

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Re: What to do about church?
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2007, 02:45:53 AM »
taffy,

In saying what you have said,  do you believe that eternal hellers will see the eons to come?
b

 could ya first explain to me...Can ya expound  on ages to come?

Blessings
Taffy
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

painterb

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Re: What to do about church?
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2007, 02:59:56 AM »
I have been listening to Louis Abbott and also Martin Zender and both feel at least Martin for sure, that during the Millenial Kingdom unbelievers will not be around, they will be dead, then judged at the Great White Throne Judgement. The next Eon (age) new heaven and new earth, those judged will be working through there judgements during this time and then will be brought back to God so that God can be ALL in ALL.  I hope you got the jist of it, the terminalogy may be off but perhaps not.
b

Offline Taffy

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Re: What to do about church?
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2007, 03:08:23 AM »
I have been listening to Louis Abbott and also Martin Zender and both feel at least Martin for sure, that during the Millenial Kingdom unbelievers will not be around, they will be dead, then judged at the Great White Throne Judgement. The next Eon (age) new heaven and new earth, those judged will be working through there judgements during this time and then will be brought back to God so that God can be ALL in ALL.  I hope you got the jist of it, the terminalogy may be off but perhaps not.
b

Yeah I got the Jist....

youve mentioned MUCH in your post.....

there are conflicting Veiws to the AGE to come..

hang around at Tent some, youll sure to see them come throu Paint...


Blessings
Taffy
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

painterb

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Re: What to do about church?
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2007, 03:29:00 AM »
have you listened to those guys, I'm sure abbott but what do you think of Zender?
Taff,  you said conflicting views, could you point me into right direction of the judgement of the unbelievers and their time frame.
Thank you
b

I find all of this so interesting and love learning!!

Offline Taffy

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Re: What to do about church?
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2007, 03:37:38 AM »
have you listened to those guys, I'm sure abbott but what do you think of Zender?
Taff,  you said conflicting views, could you point me into right direction of the judgement of the unbelievers and their time frame.
Thank you
b

I find all of this so interesting and love learning!!

Ive read bits of some like Zeder, and others, some more than others....thesedays , I just SIT.. and read very little of what others say.... just lurk from time to time

The second part of your post , again bro, hang arond some to hear what they have to say

your questions are Not black and white answers Brother... we come to understand a little here then a Little there...


 Your eagerness is heartening.... :icon_flower:

patience Brother.. SEEK and you will FIND
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline firstborn888

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Re: What to do about church?
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2007, 08:24:20 PM »
In saying what you have said,  do you believe that eternal hellers will see the eons to come?

Hi there,
   I don't think an adherance to ET will push folks to the back of the line. Most people who believe in eternal torment do so in ignorance - not out of spite for God's salvation. I see most of them as the innocent victims of centuries of mis-conceptions and bad translations.
   In another thread it was brought out that the Pharisees KNEW Jesus was the Messiah and yet still opposed Him because He opposed them. A leader who knows UR and yet preaches eternal torment (just to please his constituants/keep his position) will have a lot of 'splainin' to do on the big day.
   I led worship for many many years in mainstream charismatic churches (all the while knowing UR) and for the most part eternal torment was not the focus, but when push comes to shove - ET rears it's ugly head. I finally chose to get out because the dark, depressing world view (the world is out of control and God is really PO'd at everyone) was starting to have a very negative impact on my kids.
  Most people can push thoughts of everlasting torture to the back of their minds, but some sensitive souls can actually go crazy or have nervous breakdowns thinking about it. As far as fellowship - just tell the real good news to all your lost friends and see what happens :Sparkletooth:
    blessings,
    Byron

chaela

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Re: What to do about church?
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2008, 07:30:38 PM »
It has been about 3 months since having been revealed the truth which is Universal reconciation.  I now find myelf struggling to go back to church.  I have been going to the local baptist church, but now i struggle with going back because I don't believe in their doctrine.  They preach of Hell and eternal torment and lost souls. 
Is anyone else in the same boat or what do you guys think???
b

I can relate as well. We've actually gotten to a point where we're not attending church at all, though the only person under my roof right now who believes in UR is myself.  We had been church-hopping even before I became convinced of UR, but once I believed in UR it made it even harder to "do church".  I actually don't miss attending church ... It's nice to have Sunday really be a day of rest!  :Peace:



jabcat

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Re: What to do about church?
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2008, 09:24:01 AM »
It has been about 3 months since having been revealed the truth which is Universal reconciation.  I now find myelf struggling to go back to church.  I have been going to the local baptist church, but now i struggle with going back because I don't believe in their doctrine.  They preach of Hell and eternal torment and lost souls. 
Is anyone else in the same boat or what do you guys think???
b

Hey there, Painterb.  I just resigned from the Baptist denomination within the past couple of weeks.  Really traumatic, as my wife is a lifelong Baptist, my son plays in the praise band there, which I also played in.  God has been showing me UR this past year, and I continually became disatisfied/uncomfortable in the Baptist doctrine.  At first I just played the music then chatted with some brothers, skipping the sermon.  Most recently, God began to convict me of denominationalism, so I recently resigned.  When considering resigning, I asked our minister of music (also my friend) if I'd be welcome to continue in the praise band if I was no longer "a member"...he said "probably not, you either need to be for us or against us, you need to be a member of the church".  It didn't seem to matter much when I said I was a member of "the church" by virtue of being a believer.  He and I have been corresponding, he's maintaining the "baptists are the closest to scripture", "denominations are OK", blah, blah, blah.  God has just last night allowed me to ask him on what scriptural basis he has disallowed my participation in the praise band, and also to share with him "all 38,000 denominations probably think they're right" and some other things.  Cutting to the chase, I am currently attending about 1 x/wk. with my wife, singing with the congregation during the song service, then I'm taking my literal bible translation and concordance and reading during the sermon.  I hear some of it, but trying for that to not be my main focus.  Don't know how long I'll attend that way with her, but for now...God has led me to host a group of believers to meet 2 X a month at our home, and has also impressed upon me to take a music ministry "outside the 4 walls"...He's so good, and He just leads us, and "all things work together for good...."  He knows what's going on.  Ask Him for you to know His will and to have the strength to do it...I basically prayed that prayer, and I won't go into details, but He pretty miraculously showed me His will in regards to these things and gave me His strength to do it... and it is humbling...thanks be to God!  He will do the same for you...He has a purpose for showing you, and will use it to His, yours, and others' benefit...He's a God we can love and trust.  Enjoy the journey, rejoice and humbly give thanks.  God's blessing, James.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2008, 09:27:24 AM by jabcat »

Offline 97531

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Re: What to do about church?
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2008, 09:46:43 AM »
I have posted this before but I suggest anyone leaving the system read this e-book.  It really is a blessing and addreeses many questions folk have.

So you don't not want to go to church anymore

It is about a 3 hour read and you can read online or dowload the PDF version.  The PDF has a bit more stuff.

Blessings
My Blog       Father's Love Forum - New
IHWLAMAHOB
Christian Milkshake: Pressed down, shaken together and more than we can hope for

Offline Reverend G

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Re: What to do about church?
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2008, 08:11:52 PM »
Remeber that anytime people come together to praise and share their joy in Him, they have created a church.  Such was with military chaplains offering services in the field, and it is the same elsewhere.  To a manner, just in being here, one is in church.

I do understand your dilemma though.  I have no desire to form a church of my own, lest I fall in to the same pitfalls as other "denominations".  I have enjoyed services at a few other local churches, some quite modern and choreographed.  The difference in belief is still there however.  Recently I emailed the Pastor of a local church where a friend attends, and where I have been to services.  I did comment on the wonderful service there, even Starbuck's coffee in the vestibule!  Of course, I did ask whether he felt our difference in beliefs would preclude my acceptance by his congregation.  Well, I still haven't received an answer!  I had at the very least expected something to the effect that flawed as my beliefs were, I was welcome to attend, and maybe they would straighten me out.  Nope.  Possibly he sees my beliefs as an insurmountable obstacle.  Once us folks get that idea in our heads, they just can't shake us of our faith I guess.

jabcat

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Re: What to do about church?
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2008, 08:22:29 PM »
Remeber that anytime people come together to praise and share their joy in Him, they have created a church.  Such was with military chaplains offering services in the field, and it is the same elsewhere.  To a manner, just in being here, one is in church.

I do understand your dilemma though.  I have no desire to form a church of my own, lest I fall in to the same pitfalls as other "denominations".  I have enjoyed services at a few other local churches, some quite modern and choreographed.  The difference in belief is still there however.  Recently I emailed the Pastor of a local church where a friend attends, and where I have been to services.  I did comment on the wonderful service there, even Starbuck's coffee in the vestibule!  Of course, I did ask whether he felt our difference in beliefs would preclude my acceptance by his congregation.  Well, I still haven't received an answer!  I had at the very least expected something to the effect that flawed as my beliefs were, I was welcome to attend, and maybe they would straighten me out.  Nope.  Possibly he sees my beliefs as an insurmountable obstacle.  Once us folks get that idea in our heads, they just can't shake us of our faith I guess.

I've even thought, "can I/should I go back [to the way things were]?"  But since Father has been graciously showing me, a little at a time as I could handle it, more of what His words really say, and the fallacies in some of mainstream's doctrines, I don't see it as possible to go back...I simply can't ignore the revelations...

Offline Cardinal

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Re: What to do about church?
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2008, 08:55:31 PM »
 :cloud9: I shared this in an earlier post similar to this, but let me just say I've walked with the Lord for nearly 22 years, only about the first 3 of it, attending any churches, and He NEVER allowed me to formally join one, and in fact spoke to me about it, preventing it, right before I was going to yield to the pressure I was under "to be joined to a local assembly".

Even when He used me to begin "one", it was in it's original state nothing like the definition we see, but about forming the Father's heart on earth. I visit, if and when He leads, for HIS purposes, not for my own. I am continually asked where I go to church, because of the things I say (again led by Him) and do (also led by Him). My standard reply is, "I go if and when He leads me to, but I AM the church, church is where I AM."

Sometimes it actually gives Him more glory not to go, if you think about it, because they cannot figure out how (in the imagined apostate and rebellious state they THINK you are in by not going) He can manifest thru you or to you, or for that matter, how you are even still standing, LOL.......so we are "displaying" the scripture, in our weaknesses, HE is made strong.

Always remember the taking on of the shame and humiliation of the cross looks bad to the lust of the eyes, but it was the beginning of the Father's glory being revealed. Blessings to all....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

JillieRose

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Re: What to do about church?
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2008, 10:32:27 AM »
Er...join the church of England?

I'm only half joking. They already (quietly) dispensed with ET as an official doctrine, and frankly the range of opinions across the place is so wide that you'd fit right in!

Of course, this would require you to live in England, but I'm sure there are other churches like it. I love my church, and we don't talk about death very much at all really. We talk about the least, the last and the lost, and how we as a community should be helping them.

I believe Jesus may think we're doing ok, in our own small way. But I don't know. I just know that I love Him, and I want to learn about Him.

Sazzy

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Re: What to do about church?
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2008, 03:58:02 PM »
Er...join the church of England?

I'm only half joking. They already (quietly) dispensed with ET as an official doctrine, and frankly the range of opinions across the place is so wide that you'd fit right in!

Of course, this would require you to live in England, but I'm sure there are other churches like it. I love my church, and we don't talk about death very much at all really. We talk about the least, the last and the lost, and how we as a community should be helping them.

I believe Jesus may think we're doing ok, in our own small way. But I don't know. I just know that I love Him, and I want to learn about Him.

 :mshock: Have they really? I belong to the Church of England and while I've never heard the word 'hell' pass my vicar's lips, I wasn't aware that they'd actually dropped the doctrine. I'm impressed!!

Although, on a side note, I was reading yesterday that the Archbishop of Westminster [Roman Catholic] announced a couple years ago that he believed CU to be entirely compatible with Catholic teachings and that he hoped for universal salvation! Perhaps there is a link as the Anglican Church and the RCC are related?

jbs

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Re: What to do about church?
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2008, 05:55:20 PM »
Anglican church doctrine is very broad. You would probably find many churches that would believe in Universal Salvation.

rds1958

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Re: What to do about church?
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2008, 02:18:11 AM »
I haven't gone to church for several years..it just seems like the whole thing is contrived and artificial..My God is personal and never really felt comfortable with all the worshipping, praising and praying collectively anway.

I also used to believe the church was a collection of special people who unlike the vast majority of others had the spirit of God in them..but I found out after various trials that they were not as loyal and caring as certain unchurched friends..so what happened to the Holy Spirit they supposedly had that made them closer than friends? It was just religion and spectacle. It seems unnatural to go now..like I have fallen in with Scientology etc. I wish I could wake them up to the utter madness of organized religion and all its absurdities such as:  the insistence on doctrinal consistency (although exactly what doctrines varies widely from one group to another not that this  stops any of them from smugly believing *they* are right and yet still shallow enough to never wonder why there is such disagreement and confusion if God built the church himself) ..the disgustingly unloving and simplistic dichotomy between saved and unsaved (Jack Chick tracts being an extreme example), the favoritism of God who based on who the evangelicals are seems to love such a disportionate number of Southern Americans  while hating the vast majority of Chinese, Africans, Indians, Russians (born since Lenin anyway  :grin: or Arabs plus a couple billion or so Catholics) I wonder if Jesus will come back speaking in a smooth drawl with a short hair cut, three button shirt, khaki pants, a pretty ever smiling wife, 3 perfect kids and a  gen-u-wine leather bah-bul ?.   :laughing7: . the phony sanctimony of always worrying about being "Christ-like",  the moral perfectionism (endless guilt tripping of oneself and others through accountability partners), the hypocrisy (Calvinist Presbyterian elders drunk at an unpublicized weekly "fellowship" at a local bar), the added laws such as no drinking :beerburp: or rock music (unless youre singing about Jesus above the blare of your Marshall amp)..so..the whole circus seems like lunacy to me now..but all that being said..I would still enjoy getting together with fellow believers if only to talk about God and maybe sing a few songs and share our lives..but "Church" isnt that honest honest and simple..so I have no time at age 50 to waste any more time  :teaching: :clock:
« Last Edit: April 30, 2008, 02:52:18 AM by Raymond »

seeker56

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Re: What to do about church?
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2008, 02:43:36 AM »
The church of England is the Episcopal church of America, and that's where I currently attend. There is a wide range of beliefs. One thing that most Protestant churches preach is about the redemption of mankind, and the judgement to come. The Episcopal church stresses blessings. We pray a prayer each Sunday for those who have a wedding anniversary, or a birthday in the past week. The prayers are prayers of blessing which come right out of the book of Common Prayer. I grew up Pentecostal. Many times I went to revival meetings, and heard hellfire sermons. Reading some of the posts on this forum, I realize that my fellow Christians were emotionally traumatized by these doctrines. I would much rather attend a church that is into blessing. Look in the OT and see how often people were blessed by others. Jacob blessed Joseph's sons in Genesis. Abraham blessed his son Issac. When Samuel poured the oil of anointing on Saul, and later David, that was a blessing. Dennis Bennett was an Episcopal/Anglican Priest who is considered the father of the modern Charismatic movement. In his book the Holy Spirit and You, which I recently read, he writes about the Book of Common Prayer. He also quoted the prayer in the OT where David says, All gifts come of thee  O Lord, and of thine own have we given thee. This is something that is spoken over the offering each Sunday during the service. He mentions other things in the book that an Episcopalian would relate too, as they are common to that style of worship. However, in that book he does espouse the idea that salvation is only possible on this side of death. I don't believe that now, though I used to. I've attended many different kinds of churches in my fifty plus years on this planet. I've come to the conclusion that there is no perfect church. The church I attend is fairly low church. I wouldn't like attending the cathedral downtown where they have High Church. Too formal for me. I was even invited to sing in the choir this past month at the cathedral for a service, but I declined. The Episcopalians have a feast of the animals in October which I think is a little over the top. So I don't go to the "dog and pony" show on that Sunday. My Dad who was a Pentecostal minister was church shopping, and he tried a Lutheran church. Since he originally was from Germany, and was raised Lutheran, he thought he would try it. This church however was trying to get him to join and commit to tithing etc. I think that's wrong for a church to do that. One other thing that I think is wrong in regards to church. My Grandparents were faithful loyal attenders of the church. When they got to the point where they couldn't drive anymore, no one from their church looked in on them or offered them a ride to church. This church was by the way a rabidly fundamentalist type church that preached ET every Sunday. So maybe it wasn't such a bad thing either.....

JillieRose

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Re: What to do about church?
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2008, 12:35:58 PM »
Quote
Have they really? I belong to the Church of England and while I've never heard the word 'hell' pass my vicar's lips, I wasn't aware that they'd actually dropped the doctrine. I'm impressed!!

The above posters are right that the Anglican church is very broad in terms of doctrine.

I should also point out that NOWHERE do they deny the possibility of UR. Which is a good start. And,I believe, at one point they specifically rejected an article of faith that denied such a thing was possible. They figured, I think, that cleverer people than them have thought it, and they might be right.  :bigGrin:

I hope they are.

martincisneros

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Re: What to do about church?
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2008, 02:42:27 PM »
Hmmm.... What to do about Church?  I'm sorta in the same boat right now.  I'll go one Sunday and then miss a couple of weeks.  Don't think that I went at all this April to any meeting that I wasn't personally teaching at.  Other pressing matters sorta did eat up some of my time, [scheduling conflicts, etc.,] but if I'd had much motivation, I probably could have been at Church.

I'm not sure if this is something that you can totally escape while in this life, for as long as there's some area of doctrine that you'd have a difference with other believers regarding -- on a level where it would nearly be a deal-maker/breaker for you with ongoing fellowship.

For a lot of Universalists, it'll simply be a restlessness more than necessarily being touchy, fretful, or resentful.  I'm in another season where I'm seeing more than I can say.  And I don't mean that lightly, "through a glass darkly," or whatever.  I can express a little less than 1% of all of the things that the Lord's showing me.  I've been seeing God intimately involved with each and every single life everywhere, with moment by moment and LONG-RANGE goals for each and every single life everywhere (not just human).

There is a frequency of matter, whether it's in another demension or on the subatomic particle level where Revelation 5:13 is already a reality.  I genuinely hear it most of the time.  I'm hearing it right now, as I'm writing this, from every breath on the whole planet.  I hear it on the way to Church as well.

Only to get to Church and hear:

He's there for people every time but the last time;
In the end, He's only as faithful as you were;
You're the only Jesus some people will ever see;
Have you prayed for the Lord to forgive your sins?
If you died today, where would you spend eternity??
Do you have the assurance that your sins are forgiven?
If Jesus came today, would you be ready to meet Him?
etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.

That makes me want to find a copy of the rock band Queen's old song "Who wants to live forever?"  as though there were no such thing as genuinely committed, endless, unfathomable, boundless love.  Sometimes it's water off of a duck's back, while other times it just makes you deeply sick of the whole universe and at God for allowing those things to still be preached in the name of Gospel preaching/teaching/demonstration.

I'm inching more towards an Ultra-Universalism (i.e., no afterlife punishments whatsoever) as more of a dogma than either a distant hope or the odd sense that I get from one or two of the promises that the Scriptures contain of the Restoration.  I'm now seeing it all over the Bible and things are moving towards a demension of clarity that they've never had for me before.  Previously, my Universalism would have been of the Restorationist variety that you'd bump into in the writings of Jeremiah White, James Reilly, Andrew Jukes, George MacDonald, Charles Chauncy, Elhanan Winchester, John Murray, George DeBenneville, Paul Siegvolk, Paul Dean, and others where there was a very dogmatic doctrine of temporary Hell for unrepentant unbelievers that would die in their sins.

And no, not all of the 18th century Universalists were what we might call Restorationists.  Joseph Huntington in "Calvinism Improved" was very dogmatically Ultra-Universalist.  And he thought that that was not only the very clear teaching of Scripture but the very clear teaching of the King James Bible, so that you didn't need to go through all of these lexicons and other stuff to gain the truth.  I would agree that all of the promises of the Universal Restoration are abundantly clear in the "Authorized Version," but the forever and evers that get thrown around with regards to punishment make you have to wonder a little at what appear to be bonafide contradictions between a lambkin who has supposedly taken away the sin of the world and flames that have undying worms.  He was a little bolder about his Ultra Universalism than I might ever be with regards to his belief that the KJV was 100% clear about it, without much need of looking into the translation.  But then again, I don't have a Bible from the 18th century, so I don't know if it was more of a rule back then than it is now regarding Bibles having the center column reference notes.

Anyway, the more time that I'm spending in the most literal translations that I can get my hands on is really starting to transform my beliefs on a number of different fronts and not just in the realm of my emerging views of punishments.  When I could keep it to what I understood from Andrew Jukes, Elhanan Winchester, and Charles Chauncy, then "fitting in" with the eternal hell crowd wasn't that hard for me.  I could mentally qualify nearly every statement that would come out of their mouths with "but in the ages to come...."

On the one hand, I'm wanting to stop doing the itinerant evangelizing that I've been doing and start a Church in Fort Worth, Texas or anywhere that God would open the door.  On the other hand, I just want to retreat into the woods or into a really really nice house that God could provide in this life and just live a bit of a monastic life.

Usually the deeper the growing contentment in just being by yourself with half a dozen of the most literal Biblical translations anywhere and half a dozen choice UR works for devotional reading -- and the nearer you're getting towards the Lord just thrusting you out there in front of people to have to deal with stupid people again.

He does say not to forsake the assembling of yourselves together in the book of Hebrews, and that the responsibility of every ministry office is towards the perfecting of the rest of the Body of Christ in the earth.  Maybe it takes these periodic rebaptizings in the grave of mortification over all of this so that we'll have a healthy detachment from the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life.

Dreamer

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Re: What to do about church?
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2008, 08:12:40 PM »
Hell doesn't come alone, though.  It comes with tons of ugly baggage.  Fear and bondage are the cornerstones of the whole institution and all its good news. 

Have you ever seen a rabid rat trapped in a corner?  That's the oh so loving Christian that emerges when you even hint at the love of God and His unfathomable enormity.  I have a few bites from a discussion this morning so the bruises are fresh. I think I need to get a shot.  :Sparkletooth: