Author Topic: What does "Justification" mean to you?  (Read 1998 times)

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Offline Tony N

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What does "Justification" mean to you?
« on: September 01, 2009, 02:42:56 PM »
What does "Justification" mean to you?

There are no right or wrong answers to my question. I am just curious what all of you who post here think justification really is.

Tony
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline chuckt

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Re: What does "Justification" mean to you?
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2009, 03:25:29 PM »
its a judicial decision that allows us to be in fellowship with ABBA FATHER.

chuckt
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Paul Hazelwood

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Re: What does "Justification" mean to you?
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2009, 03:51:36 PM »

To me it means God created us all knowing we'd all be with him one day.


Zeek

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Re: What does "Justification" mean to you?
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2009, 04:25:37 PM »
its a judicial decision that allows us to be in fellowship with ABBA FATHER.

chuckt

why is that??


Offline Taffy

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Re: What does "Justification" mean to you?
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2009, 04:35:20 PM »
hI t :icon_flower:

To be Deemed Righteous before Him throu the Blood of of Christ by HIS works throu US :icon_flower:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline chuckt

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Re: What does "Justification" mean to you?
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2009, 04:36:09 PM »
its a judicial decision that allows us to be in fellowship with ABBA FATHER.

chuckt

why is that??



Greetings ZEEK.

not sure what you mean by """"WHY"""" ??


i am reminded of this:

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by (( BY WHAT?? ))) the faith  (( THE FAITH OF YOU?? THE FAITH OF WHO WHO WHO?????? ))) of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified (((( JUSTIFIED BY WHAT ?? )))  by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.  

 read psalms 22, Jesus taught it while dieing on the cross.  :thumbsup:


inlove:
chuckt
« Last Edit: September 01, 2009, 05:09:30 PM by chuckt »
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HartleyDamboiseII

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Re: What does "Justification" mean to you?
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2009, 07:06:46 PM »
To me Justification means the gracious act of God reckoning the sinner to be Just and righteous through the deliverance which is in Christ Jesus, through faith in His blood {God's invisibility Cloke}, with the assurance of being maintained and vindicated against all that may attack or indict.

Justification is just as if you NEVER sinned...

and recognizing that justification dose not mean "pardon" or "forgiveness of sins".

Why do I believe this:

                   Pardon is the exercise of executive clemency in remitting guilt or the penalty incurred, or extending courteous forbearance. It is the prerogative of a governor or king, while justification is the judicial act of a judge, pronouncing "not guilty", exonerating, acquitting, showing to be just. Pardon is probational and may be revoked, but justification is absolute and when once pronounced, it cannot be revoked.

Lee Damboise II

Offline Redlettervoice

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Re: What does "Justification" mean to you?
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2009, 07:07:59 PM »


If you study Romans 4 really close you conclude that the law only
works "wrath." There's that justice system.  It's the same in spiritual
matters as in this world......hard to imagine, but true.

Along came Jesus.  The fulfillment of the "promise" having
the love for us to lay down his life unto death, that He may
be RAISED AGAIN FOR OUR JUSTIFICATION>

AND....

SO IT IS.......
IN US.
 
 
Ro 4:25 -
Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
 


I see Chuck has said the same thing..................Hallelujah>

Offline Seth

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Re: What does "Justification" mean to you?
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2009, 07:28:26 PM »
What does "Justification" mean to you?

There are no right or wrong answers to my question. I am just curious what all of you who post here think justification really is.

Tony

The word "justified" is translated from the same word for "righteous." I think the word "justification" as a translation for "daikaoo" is one of the KJV nuances that has led to the idea of "positional" righteousness in place of what the NT really teaches: actual formation into righteousness, with faith being the seed, and the Spirit being the internal worker. Here is Paul's definition of those who are "justified/righteous":

Romans 6:7
For he that is dead is FREED (dikaioo) from sin.


I have a more in-depth study of "Justification" here: http://mercifultruth.com/links-savedbygrace.htm

Offline Seth

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Re: What does "Justification" mean to you?
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2009, 07:43:09 PM »
Ro 4:25 -
Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.


Amen Redlettervoice, if I understand you correctly. Seeing as how "justification" is translated from the same word as "righteousness" let's see how that word works in this sentence: "He was RAISED again for our righteousness."

Now when we understand that it is by Christ's death that the world is reconciled, and much more so by his life we are saved, it brings new meaning to the word justification. Christ was raised to be a life giving Spirit which is the supernatural power to deliver a slave to sin FROM sin. That is why he was RAISED for our righteousness.

The Bible teaches a perfect parallel to Adam and Christ. The first Adam MADE everyone sinners. Was everyone just reckoned a sinner, or actually MADE sinners when death entered into the world? Obviously everyone was MADE a sinner subject to death of the carnal mind.

What is the polar opposite of that? Declared righteousness while still in slavery? No, because Adam's transgression did not make everyone sinners only by declaration, but in actuality. So the polar opposite to Adam's result, is that Christ's raised LIFE does MAKE people righteous, when before they were in bondage to sin.



Offline chuckt

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Re: What does "Justification" mean to you?
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2009, 07:49:23 PM »
Ro 4:25 -
Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.


Amen Redlettervoice, if I understand you correctly. Seeing as how "justification" is translated from the same word as "righteousness" let's see how that word works in this sentence: "He was RAISED again for our righteousness."

Now when we understand that it is by Christ's death that the world is reconciled, and much more so by his life we are saved, it brings new meaning to the word justification. Christ was raised to be a life giving Spirit which is the supernatural power to deliver a slave to sin FROM sin. That is why he was RAISED for our righteousness.

The Bible teaches a perfect parallel to Adam and Christ. The first Adam MADE everyone sinners. Was everyone just reckoned a sinner, or actually MADE sinners when death entered into the world? Obviously everyone was MADE a sinner subject to death of the carnal mind.

What is the polar opposite of that? Declared righteousness while still in slavery? No, because Adam's transgression did not make everyone sinners only by declaration, but in actuality. So the polar opposite to Adam's result, is that Christ's raised LIFE does MAKE people righteous, when before they were in bondage to sin.





Good post, seems the more this is realized the more the "flesh" is put down/aside/dies.
for me personally its an unveiling over time as i dont think i could handle it all at once.

faith to faith, glory to glory....


peace
chuckt

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Offline WhiteWings

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Re: What does "Justification" mean to you?
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2009, 08:19:07 PM »
I looked up the word and it's primary meaning is: the act, process, or state of being justified by God
I always assumed the primary meaning is secular.

No difficult verses from me:

Justification is God gives me a break.

I also think we are passive in that justification. A gift is given. The gift is jusification.

Just a guess. Did I earn a cookie TonyN ?  :bgdance:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Seth

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Re: What does "Justification" mean to you?
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2009, 08:33:17 PM »
I think the reason that justification/righteousness is a gift is because so is the Spirit and so is the faith we recieve. Even our faith is not our own, it is the faith of Christ crying abba, father within us. So even our faith is a gift.

Seeing that "justification" and "righteousness" are from the same word, look at the word "righteous" in the dictionary:

righteous
1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin
2 a : morally right or justifiable <a righteous decision> b : arising from an outraged sense of justice or morality <righteous indignation>


Synonym: moral

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/righteous

If Christ causes people to be free from sin, meaning that they no longer abide in it, it would also be hard to find guilt in them. It's the gift of Christ's faith, leading to the free gift of having our our flesh put to death with all its lusts.

Offline Molly

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Re: What does "Justification" mean to you?
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2009, 08:34:47 PM »
Quote
I also think we are passive in that justification.

Not totally passive.  If someone gives you a gift, do you just let it drop on the floor?  Or do you put out your hand and take it?  Do you open it?  Do you look inside the box and take it out?  Do you read the instructions and put it together?  Do you then happily use it?

Is that passive?


12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


--John 1

"received" [him]

G2983
λαμβάνω
lambanō
lam-ban'-o
A prolonged form of a primary verb, which is used only as an alternate in certain tenses; to take (in very many applications, literally and figuratively [probably objective or active, to get hold of; whereas G1209 is rather subjective or passive, to have offered to one; while G138 is more violent, to seize or remove]): - accept, + be amazed, assay, attain, bring, X when I call, catch, come on (X unto), + forget, have, hold, obtain, receive (X after), take (away, up).

Offline chuckt

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Re: What does "Justification" mean to you?
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2009, 08:36:04 PM »
Quote
I also think we are passive in that justification.

Not totally passive.  If someone gives you a gift, do you just let it drop on the floor?  Or do you put out your hand and take it?  Do you open it?  Do you look inside the box and take it out?  Do you read the instructions and put it together?  Do you then happily use it?

Is that passive?


12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


--John 1

"received" [him]

G2983
λαμβάνω
lambanō
lam-ban'-o
A prolonged form of a primary verb, which is used only as an alternate in certain tenses; to take (in very many applications, literally and figuratively [probably objective or active, to get hold of; whereas G1209 is rather subjective or passive, to have offered to one; while G138 is more violent, to seize or remove]): - accept, + be amazed, assay, attain, bring, X when I call, catch, come on (X unto), + forget, have, hold, obtain, receive (X after), take (away, up).



AMEN,

the gift is to be placed on the mantle of the heart and gazed upon daily.

peace
chuckt
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Offline Seth

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Re: What does "Justification" mean to you?
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2009, 08:41:05 PM »
Molly, Amen

1 John 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as (God) is righteous.


The word righteousness is the same one used to translate "justification" or "justify".

Offline chuckt

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Re: What does "Justification" mean to you?
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2009, 08:44:51 PM »
Rom 10:5 for Moses doth describe the righteousness that [is] of the law, that, `The man who did them shall live in them,' 


 Rom 10:6 and the righteousness of faith doth thus speak: `Thou mayest not say in thine heart, Who shall go up to the heaven,' that is, Christ to bring down? 


 Rom 10:7 or, `Who shall go down to the abyss,' that is, Christ out of the dead to bring up. 


 Rom 10:8 But what doth it say? `Nigh thee is the saying -- in thy mouth, and in thy heart:' that is, the saying of the faith, that we preach; 


 Rom 10:9 that if thou mayest confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and mayest believe in thy heart that God did raise him out of the dead, thou shalt be saved, 


 Rom 10:10 for with the heart doth [one] believe to righteousness, and with the mouth is confession made to salvation; 
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Offline Seth

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Re: What does "Justification" mean to you?
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2009, 08:47:31 PM »
Amen Chuckt.

It is no longer us having "our own" righteousness which is by the law. But the righteousness of Christ through faith.

 :thumbsup:


Offline Molly

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Re: What does "Justification" mean to you?
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2009, 08:48:24 PM »
16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

 17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.


--Rom 1


This is the passage that changed the world when Martin Luther read it.

Look what Paul is saying--the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith--from the faith of the gospel writers to our faith--Christ to Christ--

Christ in them communicating to Christ in me--the Son talking to the Son.

« Last Edit: September 01, 2009, 08:53:46 PM by Molly »

Offline Seth

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Re: What does "Justification" mean to you?
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2009, 08:56:48 PM »
Regarding works:

1 Cor 12:1-13
Now about spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be ignorant. You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit. There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men.

 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.

The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.


Do you see how good works, (healing, prophecy etc) are also a gifts of righteousness? And so is the putting down of the flesh with all its sinful desires. That is a gift.

As I told someone in another thread, it isn't that we work to receive salvation through the law, but that the salvation through the Spirit, and that by faith of Christ within, CHANGES our works from evil to good.



Offline WhiteWings

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Re: What does "Justification" mean to you?
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2009, 09:03:46 PM »
Quote
I also think we are passive in that justification.

Not totally passive.  If someone gives you a gift, do you just let it drop on the floor?  Or do you put out your hand and take it?  Do you open it?  Do you look inside the box and take it out?  Do you read the instructions and put it together?  Do you then happily use it?

Is that passive?
I thought of that when writing my reply. I decided not to write it because it's the typical ET view.
People don't open the gift and drop it because they want to be in hell.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Cardinal

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Re: What does "Justification" mean to you?
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2009, 12:49:09 AM »
 :cloud9: Called/outer court, justified/inner court, glorified/Holy of Holies........inner court is realm of HG baptism. We are justified or sanctified by the Spirit of the RISEN Lord, the HG going about to do the work(s) of justification. Blessings...
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Tony N

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Re: What does "Justification" mean to you?
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2009, 02:05:45 AM »
Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for all mankind for life's justifying."

O.K. now, what does the above verse mean to you?

To me, "life's justifying" for all mankind means that everything all mankind did wrong is set right due to Christ's just act of going to the cross.

Did any of mankind murder someone? That murder will be justified. How? The murdered one will be brought back to wonderful life and that in itself will undo the murder. In this life, if someone is shot dead and they are dead at the scene, but they somehow revive the person, you are not guilty of murder. Christ is going to bring back to life every murdered person!

Did someone steal from you? All the blessings accrued from Christ's just act will more than undo the petty things stolen from you. And you will see that it was a necessary evil.

What do you think?

No, I'm not saying to go out and kill someone because it will all come out in the wash anyway. But it is nice to know that everything will come out in the wash!
Just because God says He will save all mankind
does not necessarily mean He won't.

Offline Seth

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Re: What does "Justification" mean to you?
« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2009, 02:14:38 AM »
Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for all mankind for life's justifying."

To me this means that by one offense death entered into the world and everyone became carnally minded, and therefore, dead. Through the obedience of Christ, the free gift is the life of Christ by which everyone will consequentially be freed from the carnal mind.




Offline peacemaker

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Re: What does "Justification" mean to you?
« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2009, 04:42:27 AM »
Many are not prepared for success, as they have been programmed with thoughts of failure.

"Death to Life in Righteousness; but not always instantly."

peacemaker