What are we? What am I?

[Nathan]

You can not base what/who you are on what you feel, see, or think.  If you want to know who/what you are . . .it's not going to come by way of someone "telling" you who you are . .but only by God revealing to "you" who "you" are.  

The real question for me is . . . can I accept who he says I am?  Or will I dismiss who he says I am in favor of my own opinion of what I "think"?

[Paul Hazelwood]

When you say life makes us think or life beats the tar out of us what are interpreting life as?

Basically our experiences in life to be more specific.

As a Young child I sensed something that was greater than me and it is very hard to describe but I felt I was loved just because I was around.  As I shared that with others, I unfortunatly did not share it with anyone who could accept something so simple and real at face value.

Those experiences of glibness or telling me that had to be the holy spirit etc, then thrust me into a world where I had to decifer what everyone else said it meant. I had to decifer the names everyone called what I spoke of along with the ramifications of that name.   If it was God of the bible now i had to please this God, I had to believe, i had to, I had to I had to, maybe you see the point I am getting at.

While indeed, it may be the holy spirit in the bible, but what then?  Then we have to read about the holy spirit, discern through everyone elses idea of it and hope that what I felt was the holy spirit,  but what if it was another spirit,  etc etc.

It is not to say we shouldn't try to study, but I had to return to the base of what was the most logical in my own life.   I can know that I am someone without any writings whatsoever to figure out.  Life is a gift for no other reason than we are here.   

When you get to that point, then you can realize a true honest reason to care about life in the first place.   And Then to me it was the only time I could actually care to believe that it mattered that there is something greater than me that is a being comprised completely of what we call LOVE.   Pure and uaffected by how we think Love should be. 

Hope that made sense.

[claypot]

Good words but of course I picked up on this that you said.....

Life is a gift for no other reason than we are here. 

Is it considered a gift if you are suffering horrible pain from a nasty disease do you think?

I am not arguing and to prove it I will answer my own question and await your thoughts. I would say yes that life is still a gift even though to the person in pain and misery it is far from feeling like a gift in the good sense anyway.

cp

[Paul Hazelwood]

Good words but of course I picked up on this that you said.....

Life is a gift for no other reason than we are here. 

Is it considered a gift if you are suffering horrible pain from a nasty disease do you think?

I am not arguing and to prove it I will answer my own question and await your thoughts. I would say yes that life is still a gift even though to the person in pain and misery it is far from feeling like a gift in the good sense anyway.

cp

I would say we have to learn that life is a gift whether or not we can make sense of anything.   It is the simplest, yet hardest to grasp truth there is.

If that cannot be believed then people will spend years trying to decifer religious texts trying to capture something that helps them make sense of it all, but none of it really does.

This isn't to critisize, it is for anyone who struggles with why they can study and study and still seem to always question what life is about.

Life is, make the best of every day, the rest will fall into place.

[claypot]

Good words but of course I picked up on this that you said.....

Life is a gift for no other reason than we are here. 

Is it considered a gift if you are suffering horrible pain from a nasty disease do you think?

I am not arguing and to prove it I will answer my own question and await your thoughts. I would say yes that life is still a gift even though to the person in pain and misery it is far from feeling like a gift in the good sense anyway.

cp

I would say we have to learn that life is a gift whether or not we can make sense of anything.   It is the simplest, yet hardest to grasp truth there is.

If that cannot be believed then people will spend years trying to decifer religious texts trying to capture something that helps them make sense of it all, but none of it really does.

This isn't to critisize, it is for anyone who struggles with why they can study and study and still seem to always question what life is about.

Life is, make the best of every day, the rest will fall into place.

I think I know what you mean Paul. Life happens to all of us no matter what we believe or know. Life happens.

We learn by reaping what we sow.

cp

[Zeek]

to try to get back on topic:

"Zeek, you don't seem to be hearing most of my posts on the subject of me believing I am circumcised and I will be circumcised and I am becoming circumcised. I just cannot see Scripture on one level. It is too much like a diamond to do so. So many faceted to see just one angle.

I am concerned about the responsibility issue. So if you do something wrong like speeding in your car and you go to court, do you say to the judge that it was your flesh doing it not you so you are innocent? Again, I am being serious. You have good responses and I am learning.

cp"


What i believe is that the "flesh" is an identity, a "who we are".  It's based off of self, in the absence of revealed unconditional love.   

I am not that "identity" anymore, I am ONE with the Father.   

To identify with "the flesh" is to deny Christ.  My spirit testifies with His Spirit that I am a child of God.  I am HIS.  Any act or deed that is "sinful" is not me, as that would mean my Father is a sinner.  My identity is HIM. 

I believe as long as we are humans, there will be "sinful" acts or "wrong doings"; but praise God, I am no longer "identified" with that, it no longer is me.  My response is PRAISE and THANKS. 

I am the one who is "aware" of these "wrong acts", but no longer the sinner doing them.  They can continue, and likely will continue throughout my life; but they are not me. 

If I put a chair, a key, and a picture in front of u and asked "which one of these is you", I don't think u'd have a problem saying "none of them".  You are the one aware of those objects.  Sin, "flesh", "wrong deeds" are things I am aware of, but they are not me.  The more I resist doing them, the more identified I am with them, and the more they persist. 

[Zeek]

oops sorry T, i tried to switch it myself.  myight want to put this one in the other thread too. 

[claypot]

I'll tackle this on the other thread......

cp

[Taffy]

no worries Z...but best ya C and P that post and add add it on the other thread..im not sure we have that capability...

[claypot]

Ya know, I'm still thinking that it is so interesting to be created with the ability to think beyond what we can ever know. That is one frustrating trait we humans have. Sure, it's great sometimes but often it is frustrating. I suppose for most it is just fine. Live one day at a time. Does anyone really live one day at a time?

cp

[Paul Hazelwood]

Ya know, I'm still thinking that it is so interesting to be created with the ability to think beyond what we can ever know. That is one frustrating trait we humans have. Sure, it's great sometimes but often it is frustrating. I suppose for most it is just fine. Live one day at a time. Does anyone really live one day at a time?

cp

Well, I think we can try.  If we are fortunate we can think ahead and build up a saving account, plan for  future  events, and sometimes those all work out.

Then the washer breaks, the fridge goes and lightning hits the cable line outside the house and takes out the rest of the savings when insurance won't cover everything.   Then after that the computer frys.

What do ya do? , lol   ;)

Then ya just go day to day trying to build it all back up.  So I think for the most part we sometimes are forced to go day by day despite our best efforts.

Then we see our neighbor or friend who never appears to have those troubles and we think it's not fair, or we haven't done something right.  But what appears to us is never the whole truth. 

We can ponder, hope and wonder, but when the alarm goes off in the morning and you hit snooze one too many times and realize your running late all the looking beyond doesn't help you find the keys to the car any faster.   

[CHB]

Then we see our neighbor or friend who never appears to have those troubles and we think it's not fair, or we haven't done something right.  But what appears to us is never the whole truth.

But if you look around you will find there is someone who is much worse off than you are. I have found this to be true in my life. It reminds me of a poem that went something like, I complained of having no shoes until I met a man without any feet.

I have learned that there is always someone who is worse off than you are. And you know, I believe it is all for a purpose. whatever is my problems could help someone else. None of us live unto ourselves. We learn to give because there is someone in need. We learn to pray because someone is sick. We learn to accept charity and be humble because we are in need.  We learn forgivness because someone done us wrong. The list goes on and one. Also, the things that happen in our life make us who we are.

CHB

[Doc]

My question is........

What the heck am I?

Seriously. What are we? I see an amazing thing I call myself and creation. I talk about it and give it terms and explanations that don't even seem to come close although they are exciting to my mind at times.

What I am looking for is the reality, the nowness. I am something. I am a thought of God. In my case it seems a stray thought but a thought none the less.

What am I? Who am I?

cp


Molly wrote….

1 Corinthians 3:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

I wrote……

I know Molly, I know. I know many of those answers mentally but I just can't get them into my real 'knowing place'. I am the temple of God. What the heck is that? The dwelling place for the Spirit of God. OK. What does that make me? I sure don't feel like I'm a temple or tabernacle or the home of God unless feeling just ok is what it's all about.

What comes to my mind is that I am a thought of God, period.

cp

Believe what God says about you rather than believing your experience...

[Doc]

When you say life makes us think or life beats the tar out of us what are interpreting life as?

Basically our experiences in life to be more specific.

As a Young child I sensed something that was greater than me and it is very hard to describe but I felt I was loved just because I was around.  As I shared that with others, I unfortunatly did not share it with anyone who could accept something so simple and real at face value.

Those experiences of glibness or telling me that had to be the holy spirit etc, then thrust me into a world where I had to decifer what everyone else said it meant. I had to decifer the names everyone called what I spoke of along with the ramifications of that name.   If it was God of the bible now i had to please this God, I had to believe, i had to, I had to I had to, maybe you see the point I am getting at.

While indeed, it may be the holy spirit in the bible, but what then?  Then we have to read about the holy spirit, discern through everyone elses idea of it and hope that what I felt was the holy spirit,  but what if it was another spirit,  etc etc.

It is not to say we shouldn't try to study, but I had to return to the base of what was the most logical in my own life.   I can know that I am someone without any writings whatsoever to figure out.  Life is a gift for no other reason than we are here.   

When you get to that point, then you can realize a true honest reason to care about life in the first place.   And Then to me it was the only time I could actually care to believe that it mattered that there is something greater than me that is a being comprised completely of what we call LOVE.   Pure and uaffected by how we think Love should be. 

Hope that made sense.

It did make sense.
Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness. He didn't read the Word. The Word spoke to him directly.

[whyiloveitaly]

Hi Claypot (and all),
I wanted to say that I feel the same way you do (about the original topic).
I remember sitting outside on lunch break one day, and it came to me: "who am I?" (my internal self) and "where did I come from??" "Why can't I remember things before I was born?"
And, "why was I made me and not you?" That is, "could you have been me (and vice versa)?" "What makes us different from each other?"

What's more, when we leave this flesh, how will we recognize each other?

We know so little! And we are so used to looking at things from the flesh and not from within!

And talking doctrine just doesn't cut it; the truth is that we know very little!

Yes, sometimes we can have personal revelations; but it doesn't reach to all equally.

It's a trip.. and so amazing and wonderful!

Brian

[claypot]

Hi Claypot (and all),
I wanted to say that I feel the same way you do (about the original topic).
I remember sitting outside on lunch break one day, and it came to me: "who am I?" (my internal self) and "where did I come from??" "Why can't I remember things before I was born?"
And, "why was I made me and not you?" That is, "could you have been me (and vice versa)?" "What makes us different from each other?"

What's more, when we leave this flesh, how will we recognize each other?

We know so little! And we are so used to looking at things from the flesh and not from within!

And talking doctrine just doesn't cut it; the truth is that we know very little!

Yes, sometimes we can have personal revelations; but it doesn't reach to all equally.

It's a trip.. and so amazing and wonderful!

Brian

I hear ya Brian. I wonder sometimes if Scripture is really meant to be understood. It is written in such a way and we are made us in such a way that people have been trying to figure it out since the beginning and only end up more perplexed for their efforts.

There is some comfort to be had through the little we do 'decipher' but here is another very real problem to me. Speaking of all the gymnastics we put into interpreting Scripture, if we were to put a fraction of the energy and imagination into making the words on a cereal box say something else, we could do it.

So many mysteries. We are a mystery as is Scripture as is all creation as is the common cold and, of course, as is God.

Yes, tis a trip and it is amazing and wonderful. I love it and hate it.

cp

[whyiloveitaly]

Claypot,
I agree with you there, too. It's crossed my mind that maybe scriptures have (also?) been given to make us blind. Those who say they see are made blind, and the blind are made to see.


I've seen so many websites with so many people who have God all figured out, with their big, big doctrines.
..Then you show them some "peculiar" verses, (like Deut. 32:39 or Job 35:6 or Psalms 139:8,12  and Rev. 22:11) and they're left without an answer! Their houses come crumbling down.

God is much, much BIGGER. (Thank GOD!)


Brian (the other one on this forum)  :)

[Cardinal]

Claypot,

God is much, much BIGGER. (Thank GOD!)

  Amen....(to the other Brian) LOL

[claypot]

Claypot,
I agree with you there, too. It's crossed my mind that maybe scriptures have (also?) been given to make us blind. Those who say they see are made blind, and the blind are made to see.


I've seen so many websites with so many people who have God all figured out, with their big, big doctrines.
..Then you show them some "peculiar" verses, (like Deut. 32:39 or Job 35:6 or Psalms 139:8,12  and Rev. 22:11) and they're left without an answer! Their houses come crumbling down.

God is much, much BIGGER. (Thank GOD!)


Brian (the other one on this forum)  :)

What I like about the complexity and hugeness of Scripture is I have learned or feel I have been given the right to 'play' with it.

(I try always to honor God and Jesus Christ and find integrity in the human creation and all creation.)

I feel free to 'experiment' with Scripture. I know I get off track often but I also feel God guides me back again like a wayward sheep or ignorant kid. My walk with God took off in a big way when I found this freedom to 'challenge' God. The scary part is is that I get a bit scared that I am treading dangerous waters too often and feel I may flounder but that's when faith kicks in. I fear too taking the grace and love of God for granted but I just haven't found a limit to His eternal love and grace. There seem to be limits to His temporal love and grace if that is a way to put it.

cp

[reFORMer]

I've seen so many websites with so many people who have God all figured out, with their big, big doctrines.
..Then you show them some "peculiar" verses, (like Deut. 32:39 or Job 35:6 or Psalms 139:8,12  and Rev. 22:11) and they're left without an answer! Their houses come crumbling down.

God is much, much BIGGER. (Thank GOD!)

"...and to enlighten all as to what is the fellowsip of the mystery, which has been concealed from the eons in God, Who creates all..." (Ephesians 3:9)

Concordant Literal has "administration of the secret" rather than "the fellowsip of the mystery."  The underlying texts used by many of the newer versions use a Greek word meaning "administration," or, "dispensation" rather than "fellowship;" but, "fellowship" is very supported by many manuscripts.

When people get their "doctrine" all cut and dried, what to believe has been decided upon and fences erected already and there's no more research to be done it becomes a dead thing.  Many can remember when everything was new, Jesus had just made Himself known to us and we gathered to share the latest thing we'd found about God.  We were excitedly sharing our recent experiences and some new treasure we'd found in the Word.  The "mystery" was continuously being unfolded among us and we were sharing life.  We have fellowship when we open out the mystery between one another, but dry up when we have everything figured out and only to guard it is all we have left.

[whyiloveitaly]

I also like to "play" with what I'm digging into. It's as though many people are afraid to explore and even confront with new ideas for fear of something. At any rate, for myself, I look at the fruit that is being produced (or not being produced!) as I explore new things. Personally, I have felt a very special, "unmovable" peace in the belief that ALL things are made by Him and for Him. (And that all things move along because of His hand in it.) Hannah Wittall Smith (also on this site) has been a big blessing to me.

"Sharing life" is beautiful to me! It's almost like the wonder of a child when looking up at the stars!

Blessings to all,
(the other) Brian

[Cardinal]

  Me too, Brian. It doesn't bother me at all anymore, He has shook me so much with revelations outside the "mainstream" over the years, it's like, what is one more "earthquake", LOL......I'm like a kid in a candy store, still, after all these years, thrilled to death when He shows me something. He has to laugh at it all, in joy of seeing His kids being blessed.......Blessings....

[claypot]

Good words but of course I picked up on this that you said.....

Life is a gift for no other reason than we are here. 

Is it considered a gift if you are suffering horrible pain from a nasty disease do you think?

I am not arguing and to prove it I will answer my own question and await your thoughts. I would say yes that life is still a gift even though to the person in pain and misery it is far from feeling like a gift in the good sense anyway.

cp

I would say we have to learn that life is a gift whether or not we can make sense of anything.   It is the simplest, yet hardest to grasp truth there is.

If that cannot be believed then people will spend years trying to decifer religious texts trying to capture something that helps them make sense of it all, but none of it really does.

This isn't to critisize, it is for anyone who struggles with why they can study and study and still seem to always question what life is about.

Life is, make the best of every day, the rest will fall into place.

After all our amazing insights, I too wonder if it all comes down to what you say Paul. Be good and when you realize you fall short of this, hope like crazy their is a God that will take you in.

All I want is contentment and I think that is all anyone wants. Wherever we find it will be our home.

cp

[Doc]

I hear what you guys are saying.

I mean, even Jesus said: "hey I know what your scriptures say, but I say..."

(Referring to the whole eye for an eye vs. love your enemies thing)

[claypot]

Good point Doc.

Is God pulling a fast one on us with Scripture do you think?

Again I ask this with utmost respect for God and His Word.

cp