Author Topic: What are we? What am I?  (Read 6372 times)

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Offline claypot

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What are we? What am I?
« on: February 28, 2009, 05:47:36 PM »
My question is........

What the heck am I?

Seriously. What are we? I see an amazing thing I call myself and creation. I talk about it and give it terms and explanations that don't even seem to come close although they are exciting to my mind at times.

What I am looking for is the reality, the nowness. I am something. I am a thought of God. In my case it seems a stray thought but a thought none the less.

What am I? Who am I?

cp


Molly wrote….

1 Corinthians 3:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?


I wrote……

I know Molly, I know. I know many of those answers mentally but I just can't get them into my real 'knowing place'. I am the temple of God. What the heck is that? The dwelling place for the Spirit of God. OK. What does that make me? I sure don't feel like I'm a temple or tabernacle or the home of God unless feeling just ok is what it's all about.

What comes to my mind is that I am a thought of God, period.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline sparrow

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Re: What are we? What am I?
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2009, 06:29:57 PM »
oh shoot, I have to run. I'm already late... but I have a feeling I'm going to like this thread... :thumbsup:
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: What are we? What am I?
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2009, 06:49:42 PM »
 :cloud9: Your identity is hid in Christ, cp. Do you know who you are in Christ yet? This is not a trick question or asking for scriptures, but a genuine question. I ask because He has placed within each one of us, our calling and purpose, at least initially (He grows in us). He reveals these things sometimes directly, sometimes through a word through other people. Blessings.....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline CHB

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Re: What are we? What am I?
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2009, 07:15:11 PM »
cp,

aren't you a son/daughter of God?  We are sitting on the right hand of the Father at this time. That is something really amazing to think about. We as a son or daughter of God have direct access to the most powerful force in the universe.

We are a citizen of heaven and we no longer have to obey religious rules and regulations on this earth pertaining to human beings that supposedly control and dominate their human relationship to God. We are already with God at this moment sitting in Christ.

CHB

Offline sparrow

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Re: What are we? What am I?
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2009, 11:19:24 PM »
claypot...

I don't know who you are. I don't know who I am. or who anyone is.

Hearing things like "you are the temple of God" or "you are sitting at the right hand of Christ right now" or "heaven is now" or actually anything like that... Those words and those thoughts knock at the door outside of my brain, but those thoughts never walk THROUGH the door. They just sit outside the door, shuffling their feet, kicking little pebbles around.  It doesn't make sense to me. So they sit out there, bored. There are a lot of things that people say, a lot of... I HATE to say "catch-phrases" but that's the only thing I can think of at the moment, that just do very little for me.  I did not grow up in church. I don't get the language. Most of the time people say stuff and I just really don't get what they're saying.... I just don't.get.it. Sometimes, it seems to make sense, but then I seem to set them outside of the door with all the others. And it makes me feel a bit...alone. Like the little girl with her nose pressed against the glass peering in at her schoolmates, not able to join in their activities.


I feel like I have my back turned to this present world, this present society and I want nothing to do with it. I don't watch TV, I can't stand popular culture, I reject so much of this present world. I don't reject people, just society and people's current ways. I'm deeply sensitive and living in this world is near torture. I keep to myself and abhor going out in the world. If I could, I would spend every waking moment in my backyard just being out in nature. That is when I feel the most ok with me. That is when I feel the closest to God. I LOVE His creation.

But then, since I have my back turned to "Society", I am facing those wanting to know God, and I find myself turning from them as well because I feel I am on the outside looking in. Like I don't belong. I don't understand the language. So I am alone. With an easel set up, painting little pictures of what I think the world should be like and what I hold in my heart to be the truth.  I just sit and paint my pictures.... and hold onto my little scraps of what I perceive to be truth. I, used to feel "less than" most of the time, but am slowly learning that I am just..me.
And I am slowly learning that I guess God is ok with "just...me". We are all different. But every life serves a purpose. The low and the high... all will serve a purpose in His grand plan.

So, I don't know who you are, or who I am.... or who anyone is.
But, I can try to describe some of my paintings. My main "painting" is of a supreme being, a creator, GOD... who has created a wonderful existence full of beauty and wonder and amazing things and this is the reality HE wants to live in. Just a beautiful paradise, full of all sorts of wonders, water, air, animals, love, joy and happiness, and He knows that in order for this wonderful existance to be REAL and for it to WORK is for all of creation to be subjected to this existence APART from Him so that we may SEE him for who HE really is, and so that we may be able to EXIST with Him for eternity. We have to basically "rule ourselves", have human rulers, have a world that is somewhat created BY MAN in order to realize that we N-E-E-D God. IF we only EVER knew paradise, we wouldn't be REAL. God's wonderful existence He created would not be REAL. We MUST know the dark in order to SEE and understand and VALUE the light. So that we can SEE and UNDERSTAND LOVE. So that we can THEN see and understand that GOD **IS** LOVE!  We would not VALUE our Creator.... if we were never able to STAND BACK and see Him for who He truly is. This life we live on earth is our grand "Standing back" to to speak.

I do not believe that I am just a "thought", but a living spirit inside of a physical shell, a temporary home.
I feel that my REAL home is waiting for me to enter. I feel my spirit is waiting to enter it's REAL body.
What kind of body? who knows! But I believe it will be something I can see and feel.
Kind of like a seed that turns into a flower. Looking at the seed, you would never in a million years dream that it could turn into such a beautiful thing! I see our current physical bodies that way.
My current physical body may disappear into the dust, but the "ME!" gets put into it's real home. a new REAL "body" of some sorts. I just see everyone being so happy and completely in love with God and with each other and with ALL of creation... and just all the animals and flowers, and wondrous things we don't even know about, just this wonderful beautiful world...

Funny, but it reminds me of the Velveteen Rabbit...
The little stuffed animal rabbit cried a real tear, and then turned into a real rabbit.
We have to experience the darkness, in order to become REAL. We have to stand back so we can SEE GOD.
and so that we can finally become... REAL.
Death is the doorway to REALITY.

peace...
sparrow
« Last Edit: February 28, 2009, 11:23:02 PM by sparrow »
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Zeek

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Re: What are we? What am I?
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2009, 11:40:35 PM »
In physics, when two equal but opposing charges are brought together, they annhiliate each other and birth light.  In the thought/emotion world, when "good" and "bad" are brought together, and balanced; the thots annihilate each other and birth love/light.  The imbalanced thot life is the carnal mind, dominated by perception/senses.   

All things in our universe are perfectly divinely balanced.  God is in control, and all is as it should be. 

Could it be that our senses/perceptions deceive us in not being able to see this perfect divine balance and mislead us into "waiting" for "some day" when all will be perfect.  When we separate ourselves into seeing only "good" or "bad" in situations, the divine balance is not seen and we "hope and wait for greener pastures".  Our "light" is scattered. You no longer are present.  When we balance our perceptions, and the "good/bad" are annhilated, LOVE is birthed and we are present, yet outside of "time".   

who are we??  WE are LOVE.  We are LIGHT.  We are a hologram of HIM.  We are divine balance. 

The crafty serpent is so good at drawing our energy away from balance, and scattering our LIGHT.  The mind of Christ, is a peace beyond the "mind/understanding".  When we are in tune with his divine balance, light is birthed.  We don't need to wait for "some day" to experience HIM NOW. 

NOW is the day of salvation.  Peace beyond understanding is ours NOW.




Offline Cardinal

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Re: What are we? What am I?
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2009, 11:44:40 PM »
 :cloud9: That was interesting Zeek, I liked that..... :thumbsup:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

SpiritDriven

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Re: What are we? What am I?
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2009, 12:12:35 AM »
My question is........

What the heck am I?

Seriously. What are we? I see an amazing thing I call myself and creation. I talk about it and give it terms and explanations that don't even seem to come close although they are exciting to my mind at times.

What I am looking for is the reality, the nowness. I am something. I am a thought of God. In my case it seems a stray thought but a thought none the less.

What am I? Who am I?

cp


Molly wrote….

1 Corinthians 3:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?


I wrote……

I know Molly, I know. I know many of those answers mentally but I just can't get them into my real 'knowing place'. I am the temple of God. What the heck is that? The dwelling place for the Spirit of God. OK. What does that make me? I sure don't feel like I'm a temple or tabernacle or the home of God unless feeling just ok is what it's all about.

What comes to my mind is that I am a thought of God, period.

cp


Hello Claypot....

Read Ephesians 1.... you. me, others like us are described therin.

Grace and Peace to you....always!

Offline claypot

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Re: What are we? What am I?
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2009, 02:25:25 AM »
Great God in Heaven Sparrow, you nailed my feelings perfectly when you wrote this.....

Hearing things like "you are the temple of God" or "you are sitting at the right hand of Christ right now" or "heaven is now" or actually anything like that... Those words and those thoughts knock at the door outside of my brain, but those thoughts never walk THROUGH the door. They just sit outside the door, shuffling their feet, kicking little pebbles around.  It doesn't make sense to me. So they sit out there, bored.

I will be rereading these and your other thoughts a few more times as they speak volumes.

Card, you wrote....

Your identity is hid in Christ, cp. Do you know who you are in Christ yet?

To be honest Card, I don't know what this means. I really don't. This may frustrate you and I don't want to do that so be patient with me. I do feel something in relation to what you asked. When I say I seem like a thought of God maybe this is kind of what is implied here.

CHB, I suppose I am a son of God in head knowledge but as to what this means in my acutal being and day to day life I don't know. It is something amazing to think about and I have a million amazing things to think about thanks to you and many others here but I am kind of tired of thinking of amazing things. I want to really experience God. I mean really, literally, right now experience God in all His glory......well at least much more than I do now.

Zeek, your thoughts are cool. Very close to what I am looking for. I will be rereading your thoughts too.

SpiritDriven, I'm off to Eph 1 right now! Thanks.

I feel outside the door of what I know in my mind to be true.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Molly

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Re: What are we? What am I?
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2009, 03:00:13 AM »
Quote from: cp
Hearing things like "you are the temple of God" or "you are sitting at the right hand of Christ right now" or "heaven is now" or actually anything like that... Those words and those thoughts knock at the door outside of my brain, but those thoughts never walk THROUGH the door. They just sit outside the door, shuffling their feet, kicking little pebbles around.  It doesn't make sense to me. So they sit out there, bored.

It's ok.  We are like the temple, yes?  The temple has three parts.  What you are describing, it seems to me, is the outer court.  As Cardinal says, in the outer court we look up and see the stars in heaven, the beauty of his world, and see God in the literal, in his creation.

But, there are two other parts to the temple.  Can you take this on faith and keep pressing into it?

He will unfold it all to you in the right season.


Psalm 25:5
Lead me in thy truth, and teach me: for thou art the God of my salvation; on thee do I wait all the day.






Offline claypot

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Re: What are we? What am I?
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2009, 03:16:44 AM »
Quote from: cp
Hearing things like "you are the temple of God" or "you are sitting at the right hand of Christ right now" or "heaven is now" or actually anything like that... Those words and those thoughts knock at the door outside of my brain, but those thoughts never walk THROUGH the door. They just sit outside the door, shuffling their feet, kicking little pebbles around.  It doesn't make sense to me. So they sit out there, bored.

It's ok.  We are like the temple, yes?  The temple has three parts.  What you are describing, it seems to me, is the outer court.  As Cardinal says, in the outer court we look up and see the stars in heaven, the beauty of his world, and see God in the literal, in his creation.

But, there are two other parts to the temple.  Can you take this on faith and keep pressing into it?

He will unfold it all to you in the right season.


Psalm 25:5
Lead me in thy truth, and teach me: for thou art the God of my salvation; on thee do I wait all the day.



Good words Molly. I do feel as though I am in the outer court.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline claypot

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Re: What are we? What am I?
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2009, 03:35:18 AM »
Sparrow you wrote....

I do not believe that I am just a "thought", but a living spirit inside of a physical shell, a temporary home.

Just a thought does not do what I had in mind justice. Can you imagine what it would be for God to think us up? Oh the process, the detail, the intimacy to do such a thing. The planning of such a creation. Its beginning and end. The joy God would have in thinking such a thing. The joy of thinking through all the details, all the pitfalls and adventures.

Oh I can well imagine being a thought of God.

Another thought that came to me is summed up in this thought.....

All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field: The grass withers, the flower fades: because the spirit of the LORD blows upon it: surely the people is grass. The grass withereth, the flower fades:Is40.6

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline sparrow

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Re: What are we? What am I?
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2009, 04:35:27 AM »
Sparrow you wrote....

I do not believe that I am just a "thought", but a living spirit inside of a physical shell, a temporary home.

Just a thought does not do what I had in mind justice. Can you imagine what it would be for God to think us up? Oh the process, the detail, the intimacy to do such a thing. The planning of such a creation. Its beginning and end. The joy God would have in thinking such a thing. The joy of thinking through all the details, all the pitfalls and adventures.

Oh I can well imagine being a thought of God.

Another thought that came to me is summed up in this thought.....


Thanks for shedding light onto that!  (When I saw the words "God's thought" my mind kind of instantly went back to something that a person I knew a long time ago, had said... and it was not at all what you seem to be talking about! They were talking about what if we were only a mere passing thought that God had, and we don't even really exist and nothing REALLY exists, and there is no meaning to anything at all.. it went a lot deeper than that, but it was a very desolate, depressing, thing this person was describing.)

Anyway, back to you... That is very interesting, what you said. That is a really good "pondering" thing you just gave me. That is a pretty wild thing to think about, thinking about God thinking all of this stuff up. wow.


Molly.... see... I don't understand.
I am surely, then in the outer court.
I can see the future, in my mind's eye and that is where I live most of the time, in my mind and in my heart.
BUT.
I am still in time.
I am still attached physically to this world.
BAD things are still happening all around me, TO me, to my loved ones.
If my legs are broken... they are still broken NOW. I may know in my heart, that I am spirit... but my spirit is still TRAPPED here in this body, in this world right NOW. I will not be released FULLY until I die.
I may be released partially because I have faith.

God can console me...
My loved ones who are dead... I do feel joy because I know that they are not really dead. I know that I will be reunited.
I can STILL feel joy even though things around me may crumble because I know this world is temporary, just a schoolyard for us to learn. I see murderers and people who committ atrocities and I love them knowing that they are my brothers and sisters. I truly feel this. More than anyone else I've ever met in my life, people do not understand how I can have compassion like this...

but I must still be in some "outer court" because I do not understand... what this "inner court" is.
I just don't get it.

If anything, I guess I'd think an "inner court" is a degree of understanding or faith.
Do I possess this understanding but I am just trying to lay out in terms that I can understand in this physical world?

maybe I am not making sense...
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: What are we? What am I?
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2009, 04:49:36 AM »

Good words Molly. I do feel as though I am in the outer court. cp

 :cloud9: I intended to add some more when I could and I can see I need to explain some of what I posted. There is a macrocosm (world view) and there is a mircocosm (personal view). What I listed in the Tabernacle thread is both at the same time. Let me explain.

In the personal view, all of us obviously have an outer court/body of flesh/desires of the flesh, but we don't all live exclusively out of that realm. But at the same time, in the world view, a lot of people do, that don't yet have a personal relationship with Christ.

The defining factor for whether or not you are in the inner court realm, is whether or not you've been baptized in the HG (regardless of whether or not you speak in tongues). This is an anointing, and the things of the Tabernacle and PEOPLE (priests) were anointed because it meant they were SET APART for service; that's the purpose of anointing.

This is why the candlestick was in this realm because the HG does the works, and the parts of the candlestick reflect both the fruits of the Spirit, and the gifts (gifts that do works empowered by the Spirit) of the Spirit. Hope this helps....
« Last Edit: March 01, 2009, 04:53:30 AM by Cardinal »
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Brian

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Re: What are we? What am I?
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2009, 11:48:19 AM »
My question is........

What the heck am I?

Seriously. What are we? I see an amazing thing I call myself and creation. I talk about it and give it terms and explanations that don't even seem to come close although they are exciting to my mind at times.

What I am looking for is the reality, the nowness. I am something. I am a thought of God. In my case it seems a stray thought but a thought none the less.

What am I? Who am I?

cp

You are nothing more than an accumulation of atoms. You are nothing more than 90% water and 10% dimestore chemicals. You are nothing more than sludge that developed into a  human being over a period of a zillion years.
For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. 1 Timothy 4:10

Offline claypot

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Re: What are we? What am I?
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2009, 03:42:48 PM »
My question is........

What the heck am I?

Seriously. What are we? I see an amazing thing I call myself and creation. I talk about it and give it terms and explanations that don't even seem to come close although they are exciting to my mind at times.

What I am looking for is the reality, the nowness. I am something. I am a thought of God. In my case it seems a stray thought but a thought none the less.

What am I? Who am I?

cp

You are nothing more than an accumulation of atoms. You are nothing more than 90% water and 10% dimestore chemicals. You are nothing more than sludge that developed into a  human being over a period of a zillion years.


Brian, now we're talkin!   

Card, you wrote....

The defining factor for whether or not you are in the inner court realm, is whether or not you've been baptized in the HG (regardless of whether or not you speak in tongues). This is an anointing, and the things of the Tabernacle and PEOPLE (priests) were anointed because it meant they were SET APART for service; that's the purpose of anointing.

This is why the candlestick was in this realm because the HG does the works, and the parts of the candlestick reflect both the fruits of the Spirit, and the gifts (gifts that do works empowered by the Spirit) of the Spirit. Hope this helps....


It does help. I do feel an 'anointing'. I have questions. Why do I have questions? I mean I really have questions. I have enough brain power to ask questions I can't get answers to. I have enough of a mind to know enough to argue endlessly.

This seeing through a glass darkly is so frustrating, close to actual cruelty on the part of God. Like hanging a carrot in front of a race horse.

Here are other thoughts I've been having.

Everyone here on this forum will be gone in a measly 100 years, probably for most of us, much less. Even all our kids or any kids we know will be gone in this 100 years. Most, if not all of us, will be forgotten in this time frame. Talk about grass or a vapor. What the heck am I, I ask again. Why am I made to exist for such a brief, very brief, time?

In this time I hate with the best of them. I cheat, lie, steal, murder, cry, hurt. I do all these things at some level. I also laugh, am honest, feel great, soar, jump for joy at times. In my small lifetime I do all these things. I question God, I ignore God. I can make someones day or I can ruin it. What am I?

Why can I think just so far and no more, and for that matter, no less. Sometimes I think it would be a blessing to think far less!

cp






For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: What are we? What am I?
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2009, 05:05:31 PM »
 :cloud9: cp, use that brain power to question HIM constantly. That's what I do. I meditate on scriptures, asking Him what they mean, and eventually, through some means, He reveals the answer I was looking for.

My focus has never been on the brevity of this life, except perhaps when I was deathly ill a couple of nights last year, and thought I would die. The reason for that is because He showed me 23 years ago, that He never intended for Adam to die, but rather to live to that 1000 year mark, which is symbolic of the year of the Lord, which is not to be focused on as a millennial period of time, but as a PERSON; a person we are to enter fully into and have these bodies changed with death/corruption swallowed up by His incorruption. This may not be the answer you're looking for, but it's all I've got. Blessings....

"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline CHB

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Re: What are we? What am I?
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2009, 09:10:02 PM »

cp,

Brian got it wrong, we are DIRT. We are a work in progress and it doesn't yet appear what we shall be but when he appears, we know we will be like him. Just think, we went from dirt to flesh and we will go from flesh to spirit one day. We have taken one step, we have one to go. Can you imagine being dirt at some point?  We are here to work, live, love and die to become like God.

We are servants of Christ, here to magnify Christ in our body (Phil. 1:20).
We were created in his image so we look like him as far as having head, arms, legs, feet, eyes.

We were created to create, to become like Him and inherit the world someday.

CHB 

Offline claypot

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Re: What are we? What am I?
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2009, 12:14:23 AM »
Encouraging words CHB.

I am just taking a look at the Bible and at our discussions here and about 30 years of my own thoughts and I am wondering. I am not doubting that God is. There is always something 'bigger' out there and the buck has to stop somewhere.

I see a myriad of gambits out there. There are many many explanations about who and what God is and who or what we are. There seems to be bits of truth here and there. The Bible covers an extremely wide range of ideas.

People need to stick with one system it seems because if you start going from system to system you will just keep going until you die as there are so many out there. The Bible makes not much sense to me but I am learning how to make it work for me as I see others do.

Where I am at now is in a kind of dangerous place. I don't want to but I am challenging God. I hope it falls in the category of reasoning with Him.

It just doesn't make sense. God seems to be playing with us. Intellectually, poetically, physically, spiritually, or any other spin you want to put on the words of Scripture, gets way beyond most humans most, if not all, of the time.

CHB, you write....

We are servants of Christ, here to magnify Christ in our body (Phil. 1:20).

Think about it. What in the world does that really mean.

Oh oh, got to run.....

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

martincisneros

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Re: What are we? What am I?
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2009, 03:11:28 AM »
We each are what we've been called to be by Christ Jesus in this many-membered extraterrestrial Body of Faith.  That's why we'll each always believe more than certain creeds of faith that any local, regional, national, or international fellowship of believers will draw up -- no matter how enlightened they'll be. 

The transmission will have additional beliefs beyond how it's rooted to the core of the identity and purpose of the automobile from what the engine will believe in it's union with the core identity and purpose of the automobile that it's in.  All one automobile, each with a unique purpose. 

In one sense, no additional meanings brought to the table by each part of the automobile, but each being entirely different according to the schematic of the manufacturer with a different objective, warranty, sphere of sustainability, and promise of about when it's served it's purpose for the particular generation of mileage that the car has been involved in.  Each being entirely different, yet united in purpose and in the core sciences of how they fit together. 

Of course, to belong to a Ford or a Chevy the manufacturer has to create [or recreate] the parts to fit in those cars, and there's the specifics of Who is authorized to do so, Who the authorized dealers, mechanics, and salesmen are, etc.  There's zero question about that. 

Each part fitting where it belongs and very seldom anywhere else beyond where it belongs; each fitting into the purpose and identity of the Car and it's Manufacturer to work within the parameters previously established by the understanding of the physics and mathematics involved by the engineers, laws of the land, the safety, emissions, and environmental regulations involved; each [individual part] guaranteed to last for a prescribed period of mileage under normal useage conditions.

The basics are never in dispute by any of the parts, otherwise the car doesn't function if they're not united in heart, mind, and intent.  Each part has to go as far as it'll take the car and in the particular place within the car that'll serve it's purpose so that the car can get to where it needs to get.  There's variety of purpose, but not autonomy within the organism of the parts of the car, otherwise those autonomous parts would have to be pulled and replaced and the disguarded part, or parts, in our recycling world, would have to be melted down and used for some other purpose.

Unbelievers are simply unutilized parts that haven't yet been tweeked to fit within the design of the car.  But they're not parts of cars by other manufacturers, or inherently able to give their own lives purpose elsewhere in some other manufacturing plant.  They're simply displaced, shelved, still in the process of being manufactured, and/or simply haven't been placed into the automobile yet.  But they serve no purpose outside of that for which they were created for. 

Parts aren't created simply to be disgarded.  Sometimes they have to be recalled and remanufactured in order to comply with newer/better regulations and to fit in the next generation of cars and/or to resolve issues of defect.  But all of the way back to before having been manufactured from the raw materials that they were made from, there was likely still already Books being kept on where they would ultimately end up, to which developmental plant that they'd be sent to, and likely with some sense already in mind of where they would end up with checkpoints and additional notations being taken along the way from raw material to finished product.  So-called finished products don't really mean that they're finished in the sense that one might think. 

A finished product is only really finished when it's been engaged and placed within the still greater product than itself so that it can fulfill it's purpose.  In other words, is a spark plug finished with it's destiny when it's created or is it's destiny only beginning at that point and finds completion when it's actually within the car that it's supposed to go in and taking the car where it needs to go?  Is it a finished product when it simply is, or when it's actually taking everything where it needs to be taken in the way that it alone either fully can, or in the way that it would contribute to the whole reaching their destination?

The Cross of Christ and His Blood have created a New Humanity, but history is only just beginning because all that'll ever be reborn and all that'll ever fit within their purpose as descendants of Christ Jesus rather than descendants of Adam are only just starting to come down the manufacturing line after just having been recreated.  They're on the conveyor belt, but aren't yet the active parts of the automobiles that I'll call "History" that they're destined to become. 

Many of the parts are still being adjusted in their settings and tolerances, but that doesn't nullify the fact that many parts are actually already in very dynamic usage, speeding through history while obeying the speed and yielding laws of the New Jerusalem with Christ Jesus sitting in the seat that's enwrapped by the car that they're individual parts of.  Many are already reigning with Christ Jesus to the ages of ages.

Christ Jesus is more than the One sitting in the seat of the car and the schematics of the car.  Thankfully, He's both the computer of the car and the outer exterior that gives all of us our beauty on the road.  The Scriptures are the coding that the computer understands and speaks in, as well as the GPS to keep it on track.  Father God is actually the One driving the car while at the same time fulfilling the role of being the road and the glorious destination, while the Holy Spirit is the alternative fuel that's adding to and enriching the environment rather than tearing it down.

Offline claypot

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Re: What are we? What am I?
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2009, 02:51:33 PM »
Hey Martin, I feel like an old rambler sitting in the new car dealership parking lot looking in the windows at all the newness within.

I suppose when going from one state of being to another a person can get anxious as it starts to sense the destination. Going from the 'rich man' identity to the 'Lazuras in Abrahams bosum' identity takes some doing. I can think and dream of it and I do believe I am experiencing it in some small ways but to be fully enveloped in the new is still beyond me in so many ways.

Maybe that's why I ask 'What am I?' I feel like I'm in a state of flux, always changing. Not solid yet.

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Brian

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Re: What are we? What am I?
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2009, 06:47:24 PM »
My question is........

What the heck am I?

Seriously. What are we? I see an amazing thing I call myself and creation. I talk about it and give it terms and explanations that don't even seem to come close although they are exciting to my mind at times.

What I am looking for is the reality, the nowness. I am something. I am a thought of God. In my case it seems a stray thought but a thought none the less.

What am I? Who am I?

You are a instrument created by God, to serve the purpose He created you for.
For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. 1 Timothy 4:10

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: What are we? What am I?
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2009, 07:02:29 PM »


Life, religion, belief  will beat the tar out of us if we do not separate our inherant worth from what life seems to make us think.

We don't have to be anything, we are alive and therefor inherantly important. 

Life makes us think that we have to be a certain way, think a certain way or hope for something in order to have any significance.

If I am completely wrong about what I believe it is irrevalent to whether I am worth something or have significance.  I am alive, therefor have worth.



Offline claypot

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Re: What are we? What am I?
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2009, 07:53:43 PM »
My question is........

What the heck am I?

Seriously. What are we? I see an amazing thing I call myself and creation. I talk about it and give it terms and explanations that don't even seem to come close although they are exciting to my mind at times.

What I am looking for is the reality, the nowness. I am something. I am a thought of God. In my case it seems a stray thought but a thought none the less.

What am I? Who am I?

You are a instrument created by God, to serve the purpose He created you for.

An instrument, like maybe a thought or a note on the scale in the musical sphere of His 'mind'?

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline claypot

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Re: What are we? What am I?
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2009, 07:57:46 PM »


Life, religion, belief  will beat the tar out of us if we do not separate our inherant worth from what life seems to make us think.

We don't have to be anything, we are alive and therefor inherantly important. 

Life makes us think that we have to be a certain way, think a certain way or hope for something in order to have any significance.

If I am completely wrong about what I believe it is irrevalent to whether I am worth something or have significance.  I am alive, therefor have worth.


Words I need to hear Paul. Thanks.

Just to be thought up by God makes us extremely special or as you said, just to be alive.

When you say life makes us think or life beats the tar out of us what are interpreting life as?

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.