Author Topic: Why God Allows Evil by George MacDonald  (Read 11724 times)

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Offline claypot

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Re: Why God Allows Evil by George MacDonald
« Reply #125 on: August 27, 2009, 08:03:45 PM »
I think it's all in your perspective. I'm at a place where I see God as nothing but Love. All love comes from Him. He is the source of ALL love. There is no evil in Him. And the evil that is committed here on earth is when mankind turns AWAY from that source of Love. This world is temporary. This isn't our true home. I know people like to say that a lot, and it sounds like a cliche. But it is the way it is. It is truth.

How else do you learn something to it's full extent if you are not FREE to experience it ?? How else would we TRULY understand love if we were not fully familiar with it's contrasting opposite??

Because God KNOWS this life is SHORT, over in the blink of an eye (truly, it is... 70/80 years? God is merciful, what if we were here for thousands of years????? We are not!! We're only here for such a short time. Just enough for each of us to take part. Some are here for much shorter times. Some are here for much longer times. Some suffer far greater than others. But all lives are creating the PICTURE that I believe we ALL will keep in mind for all eternity. The picture of what LOVE is. WHO God is. Once evil (that which is NOT Love) is exhausted, we will never "go there" ever again for all eternity.

I think that we can get tunnel vision and not see the big picture. To only focus on THIS life, you DO get discouraged and you probably DO think God is evil. But if you sit in heavenly places, looking beyond this short LIFE which is temporary, and see what is ETERNAL, see what is being slowly DONE AWAY WITH (all of this corruption, evil, darkness, all this non-love), you realize that God is taking us through this HELL, this LIFE on earth not to punish us. NOT to torture us. NOT TO HURT US, but so that we will LEARN... you cease to see God as a monster and start to see Him as the Loving Father that HE is.

We are here, all of us together, walking these roads... the broad road that leads to destruction, and the narrow road that leads to life. We constantly have both roads before us, running parallel. WE constantly jump back and forth from one road to another. The longer we stay on the path to destruction, the more things we accumulate along the way that will need to be destroyed. Human beings are not destroyed, just the things that need to be burned off of them, (ALL non-love). Sometimes we are DRAGGED onto someone ELSE'S road to destruction. We hurt EACH OTHER. God does not hurt us. WE HURT EACH OTHER. We are here to learn.

Even the worst things in history, the worst atrocities... it will end up being deep lessons to every single human being. The tortured and the torturer BOTH. And all of the bystanders. And all of the people in the years before and the years after. ALL people. Suffering is NEVER in vain. Victims will be vindicated. How will they be vindicated? Not from the eternal torture of their victimizers. But from the LOVE that is going to end up being SHOWN. The POWER of LOVE that will ultimately unite victim and victimizer. The power of LOVE that will make ALL fall to their knees from the sheer weight of it.

Yes, this may sound radical to some. But LOVE IS Radical. LOVE is going to TRANSFORM every single human being. Slowly in this life, in some people. COMPLETELY in the life to come in ALL people. Through Christ. The source.

God is NOT evil. Mankind is evil to fellow man. WE are EVIL to our neighbor because we are LEARNING the difference between love and non-love. There is NO OTHER WAY. This life is temporary.

When all is said and done.... it's all going to make perfect sense. I have absolute faith in that because it makes a LOT of sense to me now. It tuly does. People look around at this world... and think "Surely, there is no God". I look around at this world and think "This is WHY we NEED God. This is why we will cling to Him forever." BECAUSE....we will all eventually realize that He is LOVE. And we will see the cause and effect tricking down, from the worst atrocities man does to man to the little everyday ways we harm our fellow man. We will finally understand why LOVE is the only WAY. That LOVE is the ONLY WAY. The source of Love is GOD. This present world is currenlty run by MANKIND. We are understanding why we NEED GOD and why we will CLING to Him. Forever.
God doesn't cause the rape and murder of a woman.
The rape and murder are byproducts of NON-LOVE.
Why doesn't God STOP the rape and murder?
If HE did....what kind of world would this be?
A FAKE world.
Where everytime, someone went to do something non-loving to someone else, God would stop them dead in their tracks?
That wouldn't work. We are here to EXPERIENCE. And yes, that means we must SUFFER through the darkest of mankind's actions.
WHY??? Why you say? Because it has to just play out. The GRAVE seriousoness of NON-LOVE has to be SHOWN for ALL that it is.
For all the DESTRUCTION that it causes.
GOD does NOT cause evil.
God IS LOVE!!!

NON-LOVE causes evil.

We will finally learn what we came to learn.
We are not home.
We are only on the ROAD to home.
When we get there... we are there to stay.
Having understood the reason we were here in the first place.
Yes, Our Father is the ultimate good Father.
Sometimes... looking around... it doesn't seem that way.
but the keyword is "SEEMS".
Have faith.
This world is not our home.

Sparrow, you know I hear ya. I am not arguing here (and I'm not saying you are saying I am) but we are discussing and reveling in God Himself.

I am finding this conversation great.

Sparrow, you say God is not evil and I 100% and more agree. You say man is evil to fellowmen and I agree BUT would you say man and his fellowman are IN God even while they are performing 'evils' upon each other?

In other words, sis, are you disassociating God from His creation, at least when it comes to evil?

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Offline Molly

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Re: Why God Allows Evil by George MacDonald
« Reply #126 on: August 27, 2009, 08:20:07 PM »
Quote from: Sparrow
This world is temporary. This isn't our true home.

Just wanted to say, although I can agree with a lot of what you say, I don't agree with this.

This world is my true home.  He made it for me.  He gave me the trees and plants for food, the bodies in the heavens for signs and seasons, the animals are my dominion [ask goody-two-shoes].

Every part of it is what I would call beautiful [well except the bugs but they can be dealt with], so even if he hadn't told me that he made it for me [which he did], I would know because I was made to delight in it, and I plan, I am waiting,  to inherit it.



Psalm 37:9
For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.







Offline sparrow

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Re: Why God Allows Evil by George MacDonald
« Reply #127 on: August 27, 2009, 08:23:40 PM »
Sparrow, you say God is not evil and I 100% and more agree. You say man is evil to fellowmen and I agree BUT would you say man and his fellowman are IN God even while they are performing 'evils' upon each other?

In other words, sis, are you disassociating God from His creation, at least when it comes to evil?

cp

Hey bro, I have to get ready for work, so will answer this in short form...
No, I'm not dissasociating God from His creation. Basically... ok... look at your shadow.
The shadow is not really you, is it? Yet... there it is. It exists.
I believe that "evil" is "non-love".  It's as if God is the sky, His love/his very essence is like the sun shining down on you, but instead of turning towards Him, you instead look down at your shadow, where there is NO light. God, being the sky covers over all, even your shadow (non-love), but that is what is on the wide road to destruction (the shadow, the non-love). He covers over all of it like the sky, but part of it is on the road to destruction... and will no longer BE part of creation.

Does that make sense?
I'll be back later tonight..

 :HeartThrob:,
sparrow
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline sparrow

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Re: Why God Allows Evil by George MacDonald
« Reply #128 on: August 27, 2009, 08:25:49 PM »
Quote from: Sparrow
This world is temporary. This isn't our true home.

Just wanted to say, although I can agree with a lot of what you say, I don't agree with this.

This world is my true home.  He made it for me.  He gave me the trees and plants for food, the bodies in the heavens for signs and seasons, the animals are my dominion [ask goody-two-shoes].

Every part of it is what I would call beautiful [well except the bugs but they can be dealt with], so even if he hadn't told me that he made it for me [which he did], I would know because I was made to delight in it, and I plan, I am waiting,  to inherit it.



Psalm 37:9
For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.


Sis, no... I actually agree!!  :icon_flower:
This beautiful EARTH is our home.
This present WORLD is not our home.
That is what I meant.
(And I rather like the bugs...well most of them anyway. Some of them are way too creepy. They will have to start talking or something, so that maybe if I talked to them and go to know them, maybe they wouldn't seem as creepy.) LOL... :laughing7:




[/quote]
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Gilbert

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Re: Why God Allows Evil by George MacDonald
« Reply #129 on: August 27, 2009, 08:32:28 PM »
Quote from: Sparrow
This world is temporary. This isn't our true home.

Just wanted to say, although I can agree with a lot of what you say, I don't agree with this.

This world is my true home.  He made it for me.  He gave me the trees and plants for food, the bodies in the heavens for signs and seasons, the animals are my dominion [ask goody-two-shoes].

Every part of it is what I would call beautiful [well except the bugs but they can be dealt with], so even if he hadn't told me that he made it for me [which he did], I would know because I was made to delight in it, and I plan, I am waiting,  to inherit it.

Psalm 37:9
For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.


Hi! Molly
I just wanted to say that I'm really enjoying your quiet wisdom; all the more so because it's often secreted behind a touch of humor. Yer a gem!


HartleyDamboiseII

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Re: Why God Allows Evil by George MacDonald
« Reply #130 on: August 31, 2009, 05:24:20 PM »
                                   THE MEANING OF SIN
      First of all, it is supremely essential that we quicken our minds for a clear comprehension of the scriptural meaning of "sin." The Greek for our word sin is HAMARTIA, and denotes, when literally translated, UN-MARKing or "MISSing." Sin, then, is missing the mark, falling short, failing of the ideal or standard ordained,  And, is imperative that this scriptural meaning of sin, that is, "missing,"  be RECOGNIZED AND RETAINED IN OUR THINKING AT ALL TIMES if we are to grasp with clear understanding and realization exactly what God has made known concerning our salvation from its condemnation, its power, and its presence in our lives.

   However, concerning "sin" and its operation in humanity, there is widespread misunderstanding and much confusion. And the chief cause for this state of confusion is to be found in the fact that most people read and think in the Circumcision Scriptures ( the writings other than those of the apostle Paul, which concern Israel, as A NATION, in accord with the covenant of the Law), consequently they gather the understanding and belief that they became sinners because of what they have done.  This is absolutely wrong and contrary to the truth of the Scriptures which God has revealed fro us, THE NATIONS, through Paul, our apostle, herald and teacher in knowledge and truth. According to the Word of Truth which God gave to us, the nations or "gentiles," we "have not the law" (Rom 2:14), "are not under law" (Rom. 6: 14-15), and "where no law is, neither is there transgression"  (Rom. 4:15), and "sin is not being taken into account (imputed') when there is no law" (Rom.5:13) But we "DO NOT SIN IN THE LIKENESS OF THE TRANSGRESSION OF ADAM" (Rom. 5;14).  However, being "constituted sinners," we are under the "condemnation" of sin, and have "death" for our portion and end apart from anything we have done or may do (Rom. 5:16-19. The following Scriptures will certify and confirm the truth of this and quicken our understanding and faith as to how it all came about.

   First, when God gave Adam the law or rule of life in Gen. 2:17, He said,

     "From every tree of the garden, you are to be eating for food. Yet from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, you are not to be eating from it, for in the day you eat from it, you shall be dying, to die".

   Now the consequences of Adam's disobedience and transgression are revealed I Rom. 5:12-14, 16-19, 1 Cor. 15:21-22 and 56, which we give in part, as follows:
      Therefore, even as through one man (Adam) sin entered into the world, and through sin death, and thus death passed through into all mankind, on which ( on the account of which) all sinned---…who do not sin in the likeness of the transgression of Adam.
      Consequently, then, as it was through one offense (Adam's) for all mankind for condemnation, … For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted ("made") sinners.
      For since, in fact, through a man (Adam) came death,… For even as, in Adam, all are dying

      The sting of Death is Sin.

These Scriptures reveal that, through Adam's disobedience and transgression, has one offense and sinning, he became a dying creature, and consequently passed his mortality or dying condition through to all his posterity, according as it is written, "through one man sin entered into the world, and through sin death, and thus death passed through into all mankind."

SIN AND DEATH

   Rom. 5:12, saying that "through one man sin entered into the world, and through sin death," Presents for our consideration the revelation of transmitted and indwelling Sin and Death. However, in the study of sin and death, it becomes necessary to warn against the popular, dictionary definition which defines mortal as being "subject to, or liable to death."  This is very unsound and misleading, and should be replaced in our thinking by the inspired truth of God in its purity and exactness of expression. Mortal, in the Greek, is THNETOS, and literally means Dying. It denotes the ebbing out or expiring process by which the SPIRIT, which is the POWER of life, action and intelligence in man, decreases, lessens and diminishes unto death. Now the cause of this dying condition in mankind is transmitted, indwelling "sin," which is divinely termed "the sting of Death" (1 Cor. 15:56). This divine explanation personifies Sin or "missing" as a Monarch, "making its home or dwelling in us" (Rom 7:17,20), its chief function being to destroy life and produce death,. Therefore, "sin" is the PIERCER or "sting" of Death, and its "wages" or ration is death to mankind, both believer and unbeliever alike, apart from anything they have done or may do (Rom. 5:12;6:16). Then, again, it is being described as " the law of Sin which is in our members" (Rom. 7:23), denoting that inherent bent, disposition and tendency to "miss", fail or stray, which causes us to effect and put into practice, through the body, the evil rather than the good and the ideal ( Rom. 7:15-20). It is also termed "the law of sin and death"  (Rom. 8:2), because it leads into captivity and slavery "to uncleanness and to Lawlessness for lawlessness" and "the consummation… Death" (Rom. 6: 17-23; 7:23; James 1: 14-15).

CHRIST CONDEMNED SIN IN THE FLESH
   Now at this point it is supremely important that we quicken our minds to the truth that this transmitted, indwelling Sin is neither expiated or propitiated. Nothing is said concerning sacrifice or blood or faith for "putting away" this sin.  The theological concept that "Christ died for Adamic sin," is both extra-scriptural and unscriptural, and consequently, a confusing, misleading error of the worst sort. The Scriptures reveal that "God sending His own Son in the likeness of Sin's flesh and concerning sin (missing), condemns Sin (missing) in the flesh" (Rom. 8:3). This makes known for our understanding and faith, that Christ, "in the likeness of Sin's flesh," presented the same opportunity to Satan that he found in Adam and Eve (Gen. 3:5-6; Mat. 4: 1-11; John 2: 15-17). However, He was  "tried in all respects like us, apart from sin or missing" ( Heb. 4:15).
   Thus it was that Christ met, conquered and condemned Sin (missing) in the flesh! Then we read that "Christ being roused from among the dead, is no longer dying. Death is lording over Him on longer, for in that He died, He died to Sin once for all, yet in that He is living, He is living to God" ( Rom. 6: 9-10).  These Scriptures clearly reveal that when Christ came in the likeness of Sin's flesh and concerning sin (missing), he condemned Sin (missing) in the flesh,  and died to Sin ( missing) once for all time. Yet there is nothing in all this concerning His sacrifice for "putting away Adamic sin," and dwells in, and produces death to mankind, both the believer and the unbeliever alike.

BELIVERS MUST DIE TO SIN
   However, concerning the believer's experience and conflict with transmitted, indwelling Sin, we find it written, "thus you also, be reckoning yourselves to be dead, indeed, to Sin, yet living to God, in Christ Jesus, our Lord" (Rom. 6:11). For, "we, who have died to Sin, how shall we still be living in it?" (Rom. 6:2).  "For if we have become planted together in the likeness of His death, nevertheless we shall be of the resurrection also, knowing this, that our old humanity was crucified together with Him, that the body of sin may be nullified, for us by no means to be still slaving for sin, for one who dies has been justified FROM sin" (Rom. 6:5-7).  (Justification here is not to be confused with God's justification from the penalty of "our sins" through the belief of the gospel. It speaks of the believer dying to "Sin making its home in us," that is, "the law of Sin which is in our members, " namely, that inherent bent, disposition and tendency of the passions and lusts to the flesh (Rom 7:5; Gal. 5:17),  enslaving "to Uncleanness and to Lawlessness for Lawlessness" (Rom 6: 19 ). "For one who dies (to Sin, missing" , has been justified ( FREED, liberated) from sin," that is, from its power in our lives).  Consequently, we are to "let not Sin, then, be reigning in our mortal bodies, for us to be obeying its lusts. Nor yet be presenting our members, as implements of injustice, to Sin, but present ourselves to God as if alive from among the dead, and our members as implements of righteousness of God" (Rom. 6: 12-13). Furthermore, we are assured that "Sin (Missing) shall not be lording it over us, for we are not under law but under grace" These Scriptures should quicken our minds to recognize, that as believers, in our daily experience and conflict with indwelling sin---"sin making its home in us," "the law so sin which is in our members," its "wages" or ration being death--- we find ourselves participating with Paul in all the reality of his miserable, unhappy state, out of which he cried, " A wretched man am I ! What will rescue me out of this body of death?" And the heart encouraging, joyful answers is, "WHY, GRACE!" Consequently, then, having this blessed assurance of ultimate rescue out of "this body of death," lit us take courage, and like Paul, be thanking God, through Jesus Christ, our lord  (Rom. 7: 24-25.

MORE IN NEXT POST...

HartleyDamboiseII

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Re: Why God Allows Evil by George MacDonald
« Reply #131 on: August 31, 2009, 05:25:00 PM »
MORTALITY AND PERSONAL SINS


   This prepares the way for the consideration of mortality and our personal sins. And concerning this subject, the Scriptures not only reveal that "through one man  (Adam), sin entered into the world," but they also make known that through his disobedience, we were "constituted (made) sinners." Now this speaks of our personal sins, which the Scriptures term "our sins," or literally, "THE misses OF-US". Now the cause of "our sins," is explained as follows: " and thus DEATH passed through into all mankind, ON WHICH (on the account of which) ALL SINNED."  This Scripture makes known that our mortality or dying condition, received through Adam, is the ebbing out or expiring process which devitalizes, depletes and debilitates man and robs him of the power, strength and vitality of SPIRIT for maintaining God's standard of righteousness, holiness, honor, glory and life. Therefore, our personal sins, "THE misses  OF-US," are "NOT IN THE LIKENESS ('similitude') OF THE TRANSGRESSION OF ADAM,"  because they result from the lack or want of the glory of God. Now "wanting of the glory of God" (Rom. 3:23), being infirm or "without strength" (Rom. 5:6), and "estranged from the life of God" (Eph4:18), is the deficiency and impotence, infirmity and weakness which results in "our sins." For lacking in the power, strength and vitality of SPIRIT, "sins" or "misses" are "conceived" and "brought forth" out of the seductive and wicked desires, lusts, passions and will of the flesh ( James 1:14-15; Eph. 2:1-5; Col. 3:5-7), in which we miss the mark or fail of God's standard of righteousness, holiness, honor, glory and life. Therefore, we have confirmed for our understanding and faith, that transmitted, indwelling "Sin,: produces mortality---our dying condition---which, in turn, results in our personal "sins," or "THE misses OF-US."

PERSONAL SINS VS. EVIL ACTS

   We now come to the supremely important consideration fro quickening our minds to the clear comprehension of the difference between our personal "sins" and the consequent, resultant evil "acts" deeds or works done and put into practice through the body. And fro clarifying the distinctions between the thoughts expressed in the words "sins" and "acts", it should be recognized and remembered that an "act" or deed denote the exertion of power by which something is done. Moreover, an "act" or deed may be either GOOD, that is, having admirable, beneficent, excellent and useful qualities, or it may be EVIL, that is, producing calamity and demolition, injury and injustice, misery and suffering. Now with these thoughts held clearly and distinctly in mind, we will be able to recognize the teaching of the Scriptures that the EVIL which we do and put into practice through the body, is EFFECTED by SIN making its home or dwelling in us (Rom. 7:17,20). This is the inevitable, invariable law and effect of SIN, whether it be transmitted, indwelling "Sin," or our personal "sins". Therefore, it is supremely important that we clearly recognize and retain in our understanding and thinking at all times the difference between the effecting CAUSE: "Sin" or "our sins," and the RESULTS: the consequent, resultant evil " acts" or deeds we do and put into practice through the body.    "Our sins" are NOT evil "acts" and evil "acts" are NOT  "our sins." "Our sins" EFFECT the evil "acts" which we do and put into practice through the body. Therefore, our personal "sins, " being "conceived" and "brought forth" out of the seductive and wicked desires, lusts, passions and will of the flesh, consequently stand in relation to God, because in them we miss the or fail of the ideal or standard of His righteousness, holiness, honor, glory and life. Resultantly, then, "our sins" or "misses" produce or EFFECT the evil "acts" or works of the flesh, which are adultery, prostitution, uncleanness, wantonness, idolatry, enchantment, enmities, strife, jealousies, furies, factions, dissentions, sects, envies, strife, murder, drunkenness, revelries and the like of these, done and put into practice through the body, causing injury and injustice, misery and suffering to our fellow-man in the world.





SCRIPTURAL EXAMPLES



   The Scriptures provide us with plain, unmistakable examples by which we should clearly discern and distinguish the difference between our personal "sins" or "misses"  "conceived" and "brought forth
 out of the seductive and wicked desires, lusts, passions and will of the flesh, and the consequent, resultant evil "acts" or works of the flesh which are done and put into practice through the body. First, there is the case of David's "sin" and the consequent, resultant evil "act" which he did by having Uriah placed in the front of battle and killed in order to have his wife, Bath-sheba (2 Sam. 11 and 12). When confronted by the prophet Nathan concerning al this, David make a clear and unmistakable distinction between his "sin" and the consequent evil  "act"  which he had done, saying,

      Against Thee, Thee  only have I sinned,
      And done that which is evil in Thy sight.
            (Psa. 51:4, Am. R. V.
   Concordantly translated, the verse reads,
      Against Thee, Thee only, have I sinned,
      The evil in Thine eyes have I done.

   This Scripture, with its context. And the account in Samuel, makes it definitely clear that David's "sin" was against God, and against Him only, while the consequent, resultant evil "act" or deed which he did was against Uriah. David's "sin" was "put away," yet, because of the evil "act" or deed which he had done, he had to suffer God's adjudication, namely, the "raising up of evil against him in his own house" and the "death" of the child that was born (2 Sam. 12: 11-14).

   Another example of the clear distinction between "sins" and "acts" is found in the case of Zachaeus. The Lord, when passing through Jericho, called him down from the tree and brought  "salvation to his house." Zachaeus immediately responded, saying, "Lord, …If from anyone I got anything by blackmail, I am giving back fourfold" (Luck 19: 1-10). Here we have the crystal clear distinction between "sins" and "acts." Zachacus' salvation, through Christ, put away his "sins" and gave him a restored relationship with God, but it was up to him to adjudicate (amend and compensate) any evil "acts" or deeds of injustice he had done and put into practice through the body against his fellow-man.

   Then, we lave the case of Saul of Tarsus, who devastated the church in Jerusalem and breathed out threatening and murder against the disciples of the Lord, pursuing them even unto Damascus. Yet, when he was met by the Lord on his evil mission, we hear the distinguishing question of the Lord, saying, "Saul, Saul, whey are you persecuting Me?"  Here, again, it is clearly evident the Saul's "sins" were against the Lord, while the consequent, resultant evil "acts" or deeds he was effecting and putting into practice through the body, were against the saints. Saul's "sins" were put away in his salvation, but the evil "acts," which he effected against the saints, await judging (setting right) at the dais or "judgment seat" of Christ ( 2 Cor. 5:9-10).

   Therefore, by these scriptural examples we should be able to clearly discern and recognize, that when "Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures," He died for "THE misses OF-US" which are "conceived" and "brought forth" out of the seductive and wicked desires, lusts, passions and will of the flesh, in which we missed or failed of the standard of God's righteousness, holiness, honor, glory and life; and NOT for what we have done--- the consequent, resultant evil "acts" or works of the flesh, done and put into practice through the body, which have caused injury and injustice, misery and suffering to our fellow-man in the world.
 


OUR STANDING AND STATE

   The clear recognition of the distinction between "sins" and "acts" will also clarify for the assurance of understanding and faith our standing "in Christ" and our state "in the Lord." The standing of the believer "in Christ" is that of a "son," hallowed and sanctified of the Spirit (2 Thes. 3: 13-14), justified by God, through faith in the blood f Christ (Rom. 3: 24-25), sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise for the day of deliverance ( Eph. 1: 13-14; 4: 30) , and, "Nothing, consequently, is now condemnation to those  in Christ Jesus" (Rom. 8:1). All this speaks of the believer's settled, inalienable, inviolable standing "in Christ Jesus" in His relationship to God, the Father, as a "son." On the other hand, our state, "in the Lord' speaks of conduct---our "acts" or works, good and bad ---and our service, which we do and put into practice through the body. Our "acts" or works, if bad or evil, must be adjudicated (amended and compensated), by us here in this life, or they will be set right in the just judgment to come, when God, with whom there is on partiality, will be paying each one in accord with his "acts" or works. Now the truth of all this is certified and confirmed for our understanding and faith in the following Scriptures.

      Rejoice, engage man, in your boyhood,
      And your heart will do you good in the days of   
                  Your engagement:
      So go in the ways of your heart,
      And by the sight of your heart,
      Yet know that for all these God will bring you into Judgment,
         *      *      *      *      *      *      *
      For every DEED will God bring into judgment
         over all that is obscured (or eonian).
               (Ecc. 11: 9-10; 12: 14, C.V.
   Specifically, then, we find it written concerning believers in 2 Cor. 5:9-10, which reads,

         Wherefore we are ambitious also,…to be well pleasing to Him.
For all of us must be manifested in front of the dais ("judgment seat") of Christ, that each should be requited (repaid) for that which he put into practice through the body, whether good or bad. 

And I perceived the dead, great and small, standing before the throne. And scrolls (books) were opened. And another scroll is opened which is the scroll of life. And the dead were judged by that which is written in the scrolls in accord with their acts….And they were condemned each in accord with their acts.
     Now these Scriptures clearly and unmistakably reveal that Christ did not die for the "acts" or works of mankind, which they have done and put into practice through the body, as they relate to each other in the world. Furthermore, it is supremely important that we note and clearly remember that "sins" are never mentioned in connection with the just judgment, but the "acts" or works, both good and bad, of each one, whether believer or unbeliever, are "written in the scrolls" or books, and will be taken up in judgment. Therefore, be not deceived by religious prattle about "repenting" and "getting forgiveness" or your evil "acts" or deeds as "sins." There is but one way to keep our evil "acts" or words, which we have done and put into practice through the body, from being "booked" against us for future judgment, and that is by "adjudicating ourselves", namely, by making amends and satisfactorily compensating here in this life, the injuries and injustices which we have committed or done to others.

   
      Now concerning all this, we have clear and definite instructions given in the Scriptures, which I will quote at length for quickening the understanding and faith of all who are concerned to know about this supremely important subject. The first text calls for personal adjudication of wrong doing by believers, and reads,

      For if we adjudicated (corrected and regulated) ourselves, we would not be judged (set right( (1 Cor 11:31).

   Then we are admonished not to avenge ourselves of evil committed against us, as it is written,
      Now to on one render evil for evil….your are not avenging yourselves, beloved, but be giving place to His indignation, for it is written, Mine is vengeance! I will repay! The Lord is saying (Rom. 12: 17,19).

Believers are instructed to do the will of God from the soul and do good, as the following Scripture reveals,
      
      Slaves, be obeying your masters according to the flesh with fear and trembling, in the singleness of your heart, as to Christ, not with eye slavery, as man-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God form the soul, with good humor slaving as to the Lord and not to men, having perceived that, whatsoever good each one should be doing, for this he will be requited (repaid) by the Lord, whether slave or free.
   And, masters, be doing the same toward them, being lax in threatening, having perceived that their Master as well as yours is in the heavens, and there is no-partiality with Him (Eph. 6:5-9).

   Moreover, believers are admonished against doing evil, for it is written,

      Slaves, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh, not with eye-slavery as mane-pleasers, but with singleness of heart, fearing the Lord. All, whatever you may be doing, work from the soul, as to the Lord and not to men, being aware that from the Lord you will be getting the compensation of the enjoyment of an allotment: for the Lord Christ are you slaving. For he who is injuring shall be requited (repaid) for that which he injures, and there is not partiality.
   Masters, tender that which is just and equitable to your slaves, being aware that you also have a Master in heaven (Col. 3:22-25 and 4:1)
   
   Then last, in 2 Tim. 4:14, we find a case of evil doing by a believer, which was not adjudicated (amended, rectified), consequently, it awaits judging (setting right) in that day, as the text reads,
Alexander the coppersmith displayed to me much evil: the Lord will be paying him in accord with his acts.

   These Scriptures clearly, definitely and unmistakably reveal that if we would adjudicate (make amends and satisfactorily compensate) the injuries and injustices we have caused others through evil "acts" or works which we have done or put into practice through the body, we would not be judged (set right) for them at the just judgment of God. Otherwise, they are "booked" against us and will await our judgment to come, when God, with Whom there is no partiality, will be paying each one in accord with his "acts" or works (Rom. 2:5-11), either at the dais ('judgment seat') of Christ, for believers (1 Cor. 3:5-13; 2 Cor. 5:9-10), or at the great white throne judgment, for unbelievers (Rev. 20: 11-13).

There is so much more:
           High lights:
CHRIST DIED FOR OUR SINS
HE WAS ENTOMED
3 HE HAS BEEN ROUSED
THE MEANING OF JUSTIFICATION
THE DEMAND OF THE GOSPEL
THE BLESSINGS OF OUR SALVATION
THE MEANING OF SALVATION
GOD'S GIFT OF SALVATION
THE BEGINNING OF OUR SALVATION
THE PROCESS OF OUR SALVATION
THE CONSUMMATION OF OUR SALVATION

Offline legoman

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Re: Why God Allows Evil by George MacDonald
« Reply #132 on: September 08, 2009, 10:28:14 PM »
I haven't read through the whole thread, but just had a thought that might help...

Men do things that are evil, but God means them for good.

Suppose I tell you a man slaps a baby.  Would you think that was evil of him?

But now I tell you there is more to the story - the baby has just been born, has stopped breathing, and by slapping the baby on the chest, the man (a doctor) hopes that the baby will start breathing again.   Is the man's action still evil now?

I think its like that with God.  We don't have all the information, so certain things that happen appear to be purely evil.  Yet God means everything for good.

Joseph's brothers plotted to kill him, but instead sold him into slavery, which eventually led to Joseph saving his own brothers from starvation.  If God did orchestrate the whole thing, who are we to say God did evil in orchestrating it?  It looks like evil what Joseph's brothers did, but God meant it for good, and it did in fact turn out good.  We don't have all the information that God does.

Peace...