Author Topic: Vessel of honour vs dishonour  (Read 1952 times)

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meerkat

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Vessel of honour vs dishonour
« on: May 25, 2008, 03:39:00 AM »
When people read this verse they assume it means that there is vessels of honour = christians   and then vessels of dishonour  = sinners who don't accept christ in this life.

Romans 9:21   Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

But what it actually says that from the same lump   (or the same person)  there is the vessel to be destroyed flesh (soul)  and the vessel to receive mercy  (spirit)

laren

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Re: Vessel of honour vs dishonour
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2008, 04:09:50 AM »
Rom 11:1  I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Rom 11:2  God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the Scripture saith of Elijah? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

Rom 11:3  Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
 
Rom 11:4  But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

Rom 11:5  Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Rom 11:7  What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Rom 11:8  (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

Rom 11:9  And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompense unto them:

Rom 11:10  Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back always.

Rom 11:11  I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

Rom 11:12  Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fullness?

Rom 11:13  For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

Rom 11:14  If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

Rom 11:15  For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

Rom 11:16  For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

Rom 11:17  And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Rom 11:18  Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

Rom 11:19  Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

Rom 11:20  Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Rom 11:21  For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Rom 11:22  Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Rom 11:23  And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
 
Rom 11:24  For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

Rom 11:25  For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.

Rom 11:26  And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Rom 11:27  For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Rom 11:28  As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

Rom 11:29  For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Rom 11:30  For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

Rom 11:31  Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

Rom 11:32  For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Rom 11:33  O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

Rom 11:34  For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counselor?

Rom 11:35  Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

Rom 11:36  For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory forever. Amen.



Same lump:, imo; is not one person with two natures.  It is the same lump, one of firstfruits (the remnant believers) and the "harvest" which together= the lump, All Israel 


Salvation is of the jews. 

Joh 4:22  Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.


and this salvation of the "lump", has huge implications


LIFE from the DEAD


Rom 11:15  For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?


jmo


« Last Edit: May 25, 2008, 04:43:59 AM by laren »

laren

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Re: Vessel of honour vs dishonour
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2008, 04:19:16 AM »
Rom 11:16  For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches


Rom 8:23  And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

1Co 15:20  But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1Co 15:23  But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
 
Jas 1:18  Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Rev 14:4  These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb


laren

  • Guest
Re: Vessel of honour vs dishonour
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2008, 04:38:20 AM »
http://www.presence.tv/cms/allisrael.php


a good article imo, re; vessels of honor, dishonor,

and the implications of "all Israel saved".