Author Topic: Upon this rock  (Read 1473 times)

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Offline 97531

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Upon this rock
« on: June 10, 2008, 09:56:29 PM »
Mat 16:13  And coming into the parts of Caesarea Philippi, Jesus asked His disciples, saying, Who do men say Me to be, the Son of Man?
Mat 16:14  And they said, Some say, John the Baptist; some, Elijah; and others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.
Mat 16:15  He said to them, But who do you say I am?
Mat 16:16  And Simon Peter answered and said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17  Jesus answered and said to him, You are blessed, Simon, son of Jonah, for flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but My Father in Heaven.
Mat 16:18  And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock4074 I will build My church, and the gates of hell86 hades shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19  And I will give the keys of the kingdom of Heaven to you. And whatever you may bind on earth shall occur, having been bound in Heaven, and whatever you may loose on earth shall occur, having been loosed in Heaven.
Mat 16:20  Then He warned His disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ.

G86 άδης hadēs hah'-dace
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1492; properly unseen, that is, "Hades" or the place (state) of departed souls: - grave, hell

G4074 Πέτρος Petros pet'-ros
Apparently a primary word; a (piece of) rock (larger than G3037); as a name, Petrus, an apostle: - Peter, rock. Compare G2786.

G2786 Κηφας Kēphas kay-fas'
Of Chaldee origin (compare [H3710]); the Rock; Cephas (that is, Kepha), surname of Peter: - Cephas.
 

This is the age old debate between the Protestants and the RCC.  Who was the rock that Jesus was talking of?

Well we have most folk looking at word origins and then say that Jesus was the Rock and then the RCC saying Peter was the rock and thus validating the fallacy of him being the first Pope.  IMO both are wrong.

Let us look at the context shall we?

Jesus asks the folk who do they say He is, and of course the possibility of JTB or Elijah or Jeremiah.  The key to this question is found in these two verses.

Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 Jesus answered and said to him, You are blessed, Simon, son of Jonah, for flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but My Father in Heaven.

What Peter had as we suppose was an ah-ha moment but when we read on, we see that he blows it numerous times - and that sure does not seem like someone that really got the message and was steadfast in it.  He cut off an ear, he denied Jesus three times, he had to be told 3 times in a vision about Gentiles NOT being lesser than the Jews and even after all this he still blew it in that he held firm to his Judaic roots and then wanted to have Gentiles circumcised.

Well that is how I see the life and times of Peter.  IMO Philip was the the one who really had the knowledge of who Jesus really was but sadly, not much is said about him.

So if the RCC believe that Peter (Petros) is the rock and the Protestants believe that the rock is Jesus then from and RCC POV, they have set themselves up modelling the infallible Pope on a fallible Peter.  The Protestants are a little closer but STILL miss the bus.

The rock, something that is unshakable, is the revelation of who Jesus the Christ is by the Father.

Joh 6:44  No one can come to Me unless the Father who has sent Me draw him, and I will raise him up at the last day

Joh 6:65  And He said, Because of this I said to you that no one can come to Me unless it was given to him from My Father.

Joh 8:42  Jesus said to them, If God were your father, you would love Me, for I went forth and came from God; for I did not come of Myself, but He sent Me.

Joh 14:23  Jesus answered and said to him, If a man loves Me, he will keep My Word(s). And My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.

Joh 15:26  And when the Comforter has come, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He shall testify of Me.

Joh 17:11  And now I am in the world no longer, but these are in the world, and I come to You, Holy Father. Keep them in Your name, those whom You have given Me, so that they may be one as We are.

Gen 3:22  And Jehovah God said, Behold, the man has become as one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever,

Can you see the thread?

Even the Genesis account seems a bit off cue in light of Jesus' prayer.  We all acknowledge that Christ is the Tree of Life, the Rock, the Christ, the Book of Life et al but fail to see the actual plan of the Father.

Salvation was never a man thing but a God thing.  Did man have to wait 4000 years for the Messiah - The Christ?

I do not think so as there were many prophets that made the connection to the Father but they all ended up being done away with by the followers of the Mosaic law.  See the rock always was and always will be, the revelation of who the Father really is and His Unconditional Love for His whole creation.

Blessings
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Offline willieH

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Re: Upon this rock
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2008, 07:45:25 AM »
willieH: Hi Bernie...  :cloud9:

Anything that is "built" is founded upon a foundation,

Concerning man, ...ALL things are placed upon the ONLY foundation:

1 Cor 3:11  For OTHER foundation can NO MAN lay, than ...IS LAID, which is JESUS CHRIST...

Some of ALL things which are placed upon the ONLY foundation will perish,  :sigh:  ...some will survive...  :happy3:

PeaCe...
...willieH   :thumbsup:

jabcat

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Re: Upon this rock
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2008, 07:50:01 AM »
willieH: Hi Bernie...  :cloud9:

Anything that is "built" is founded upon a foundation,

Concerning man, ...ALL things are placed upon the ONLY foundation:

1 Cor 3:11  For OTHER foundation can NO MAN lay, than ...IS LAID, which is JESUS CHRIST...

Some of ALL things which are placed upon the ONLY foundation will perish,  :sigh:  ...some will survive...  :happy3:

PeaCe...
...willieH   :thumbsup:


God was pleased that all of Himself dwelled in the Christ.  He chose us before the foundation of the world, and Jesus was the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world.  There's an old song, "When He Was on the Cross, I Was On His Mind".  Jesus also went and preached to the spirits in prison that were disobedient during the days of Noah...proclaiming Himself, the Good News!   God's blessing, James.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2008, 08:02:00 AM by jabcat »