Author Topic: Unorthodox Universalism.  (Read 2731 times)

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Mickiel

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Unorthodox Universalism.
« on: October 06, 2007, 01:38:56 AM »

I wanted to post some reasons I believe in Universalism, but many are not the " Common Reasons", they are Unorthodox, or sound in my own opinion. They are correct proof to me personally, and the reasons that fuel my belief that they are right. Some will be sound biblically, some will not.

1. The first personal proof for me is Evaporation.  That is when something slowly disappears. Or goes away. One year I did not believe in Universal Salvation, the next year it was there. The belief has been just the opposite of Evaporation, within me, it just keeps growing and will not go away. I won't go into to it, but its similar to Love in this manner, it comes, it stays and it grows within you. I just can't get rid of it, and I recall trying to in times past. One could get fancy and compare this to Jeremiahs fire shut up in him and he could not keep silent, but I look at it a little more Unorthodox, because I know how I am, I don't know how Jeremiah was.

I can't shake the belief in Universal Salvation, its become a part of me. And that shows me the importance of it to me. Its telling me something, because I am not an ignorant man in the area of what I have allowed myself to consume with no control over it. I am much more stronger and wiser than I used to be in my youth, so I just know that there is more to Universalism than meets the eye or Heart. Universal Salvation highly interest me, I like it. Even though I do not completely understand it, I like it.

And that is no.2, I " Like" the belief. I mean I Like it, it suits my inner desires, and I think it suites what I would Like to think that God is like himself. So many are discussing what " They" Believe, but what does a person think about what God Believes? I Like to believe that God believes in Universal Salvation, and with a Passion too. I Like God MORE now, than I used to when I believed differently. I Like to think about him Saving Everyone, it just turns me on. I Like the way it " Affects Me", in many areas of my belief. When and how we Like things, carry over into and affects in our beliefs and Living.  God means more to me now, than before. The Bible means more to me now, than before. Life itself means more to me now, than ever before.  When something will not leave you, and it has brought more meaning into your Life, something very important is there.

3. This is a difficult one to explain, but I will do my best. Karma. My own Karma. The Destiny or Fate of my own mind as I view the events, both past and present, in my own personal Life. The way my mind is, as opposed to how it used to be. Somethings going on in my Mind, and Life, and I am not the only one who has noticed it. Universalism has changed me since it has gotten into me. Mostly it has changed my mind, how I think, well literally my whole being, as I understand the word Being. My Consciousness is just different. It really is. My Karma is different now.  I am not as afraid of death and hell and misery as I used to be, and for me, that is significant. Because of this, I view the world so much differently. I view sin so much differently, there is no sense of doom and destruction looming over the fate of OTHERS either, much less myself, and I really Like that. So The Belief has gotten into me, will not go away, I Like it, and I feel it is my Destiny, as well as the Karma of the entire race of humanity.

4. This reason is what I call; " The Suffering." When the belief of Universal Salvation entered me, one of the most dramatic changes in my Life, was the Suffering, and how it both changed and increased. I was living a life of good and plenty, I had some good times sinning and had plenty of it. And I got away with an awful lot of it. Until I found out that you can get by, but you really don't get away. Pain is a very serious teacher. Suffering is the Heart of Overcoming, its the Pain of Growth, And you can't tear that heart out of the body of Christ.  I hate suffering, I literally hate pain and I don't like it. But I have found that Suffering is just like the Evaporation analogy, it will not go away. I didn't have this problem in the church's of the world. Now, whenever I would even just " Think" of doing good, it seems evil is conversely dogging me. Often I think somethings personally after me, and it enters the chase even into my sleep, it still won't let me rest completely. I guess this is one reason I envy those who have entered into the rest they speak of, I have known no such rest in my life. I think the belief in Universal Salvation has made me a target, of both physical beings, as well as Spiritual Beings.

But there are certain things that the suffering has taught me, has opened to me, in an Unorthodox way. And I want to go into that.

Peace.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2007, 10:00:59 AM by SeekerSA »

shibboleth

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Re: Unorthodox Universalism.
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2007, 02:46:09 AM »
I can't shake the belief in Universal Salvation, its become a part of me. And that shows me the importance of it to me. Its telling me something, because I am not an ignorant man in the area of what I have allowed myself to consume with no control over it. I am much more stronger and wiser than I used to be in my youth, so I just know that there is more to Universalism than meets the eye or Heart. Universal Salvation highly intrest me, I like it. Even though I do not complettely understand it, I like it.

I can't shake the belief in US either and it's become a part of me also. But, it goes so much deeper than all men being saved. It has to do with the character of God and his trustworthiness. Is God really our rock or is he like a building put up on sinking sand?


Mickiel

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Re: Unorthodox Universalism.
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2007, 03:28:29 AM »


I can't shake the belief in US either and it's become a part of me also. But, it goes so much deeper than all men being saved. It has to do with the character of God and his trustworthiness. Is God really our rock or is he like a building put up on sinking sand?




Well yes, it has so much to do with God and how God is, so very much so. Which in itself is kind of an Unorthodox view of Salvation, when you base the belief on how God is, instead of so much what the human is or does, as many beliefs place focus on. It is so much deeper in so many areas, which is why I like it so much, because I am attracted to the things I consider, " The Deeper things of God." The sense of being so common in my views toward God does not impress me much, because I sense that God is a very deep individual.

If Universal Salvation is true, which I believe it is, then the whole manner in which God is doing it, accomplishing it, is Unorthodox within itself. Instead of the common way in which one can view a " Plan" coming together, what God is then doing is not such a simple thing, in the human eye.

So I would list as no.5, I believe in Universal Salvation because I am attracted to its Unorthodox nature, its uncanny opposition to traditional view, its abnormal way of really bringing more normalcy to the whole intent of Gods desires, and how he is much more filled with grace and mercy than I had once believed.

God can go anywhere from this stance. Being Unorthodox, its just not a simple thing to box someone in. What they will do, how they will respond, how they think today and tomorrow. And the fact that all things are possible with him, underlines my ability to accept that he can save everyone, and that I am not heretic, or wasting my time in my belief.

Peace.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2007, 10:06:37 AM by SeekerSA »

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Unorthodox Universalism.
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2007, 06:09:54 AM »
"...the living God...is the Savior of all humanity..." (1 Ti 4:9)  Truth so large at such a fundamental level involving the Generator of Consciousness opens huge gates into hidden realms.  Great streams of being are unleashed.  Conscious alignment with the incorruptible substance ordering all things obtains superior life, light and power.  We are propelled into union with the One Who Tabernacles the Future.  Proximity to the identity radiating from our presence produces liberating conformity to perfection's glory in those approaching us.

---James
« Last Edit: October 07, 2007, 04:41:52 AM by reFORMer »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Mickiel

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Re: Unorthodox Universalism.
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2007, 03:34:03 PM »


No.6 is very simple, choice of the playing feild. As I examine the " Other" choices avialible in the human belief system, there is nothing that seeps into my system with any kind of power, nothingelse that really turns me on and grabs my belief. I don't like the other choices left, or the " New Ones" poping up. Universal Salvation is " For Me", it comes into me with great acceptance that I am not ashamed of. And this is what compels me to " Prove it to Myself", it creates the hunger and desire to give it meaning and solidify its truth, to first myself.

This is how we get personality in our belief, but this personality is Unorthodox, which , I think, feeds into so many scriptures, I can't count them. It keeps moving into the pattern of the missing link, and weaves the bible together into more of a fit than anything I have been made aware of.

It then leaves me no other choice.

Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: Unorthodox Universalism.
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2007, 10:40:39 PM »


No.7 is again the Unorthodox way that Jesus preached himself. In examining the way he taught, it was as if he stuck to the root of things, and knew from that his annointed Teachers would go out on the branches and deal with the " Deeper Things" concerning Salvation. Oh I just know that Jesus could have went deeper than he did, but he used so many parables that his intent was to give more meaning to his own simplicity, through the comming inspiration of the Holy Spirit, in the comming future. So Jesus focused on fulling past scriptures, and kind of making announcements of things to come. This shows a definte " Pattern of Patience", more like a laying of foundations and more roots established, which shows Gods intent on building not only a comming Kingdom, but a building and budding understanding of it itself.

That is Unorthodox, there is then no diving right in and getting " All Wet at once", or comming out of it with complette understanding, it is intended to give a little here, and a little there, and just take time to get aquainted with it. Which I see as a move by him to establish his church as a group of Overcommers, destined to grow into his True message over a period of time. Which moreover shows that the truth is something that needs to be understood in a life of learning, and Universalism certainly fits that mold. It just takes time to absorb it, and God is taking his time in giving it.

So the Unorthodox manner in which Jesus himself dispensed Truth, matches the way his Fathers Dispensation of it is being worked out. Which ties in to many scriptures that state that wide is the " Other Ways" of understanding, but Narrow is the way to the real truth, and few there be who find it.

Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: Unorthodox Universalism.
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2007, 01:51:57 AM »


No.8, is a charactheristic of the Holy Spirit that is mostly unknown, and I cannot see it. But it calls to me, it is the Holy Ghost.

Its invisible, but it begins and beckons to me, a way to break through to the other side.

Peace.

gatheredfragments

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Re: Unorthodox Universalism.
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2007, 04:17:57 AM »
Joh 3:8  The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.


 :winkgrin:

Mickiel

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Re: Unorthodox Universalism.
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2007, 05:39:23 AM »


No.9 is the hindsight of my own life, as I look back at so many " Clues" that I had absolutely nothing to do with, some of which occured even before I was born, and one in particular that occured right after I was born. And there have been too many of these to ignore, but the advent of my awareness of Universal Salvation, gives these events the most weave of reason that I can figure.

I will share only one of them, and that with relutance. After I was born, two very strange things occured. In my family, there is an unbroken tradition of all the first born males being named Mitchell, and the second Michael. All my uncles on my fathers side had followed that tradition. In the hospital after I was born, my mother said something came over her, and she named me Michael, instead of Mitchell. I was not even told of this until I was a teenager. My Father said he just didnot change it for some reason he has never understood, and Michael means " Who is Like God", so that was weird to me, but I certainly make no claims to be like God. Secondly, my mother told me, some 30 years after the fact, that while I was a baby, my Father developed serious  problems with a recurring dream he kept having. She said he would wake up in the middle of the night, always sweating profusely, and always saying the same thing; my son is a King of Israel. Neither of these two things, as well as others just as weird and dramitic, never meant anything to me, until I came into Universalism. What they mean, I willnot share, but these are actual events that have occured and our own past history bears more meaning than we know.

I would rather believe in something that brings meaning to my past, my present and my future. Or can properly explain all those things to me. No other religion has offered anything even close to that as compared to the belief in Universal Salvation.

Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: Unorthodox Universalism.
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2007, 05:50:45 AM »



No.10 is the utter unselfishness of Universalism. This is rather Unorthodox, but it grabbed me early on in the belief and has not let go. Universal Salvation is the total rehabilitation of the entire created race of humanity, and not one person is lost. Complette , utter, unselfishness at its finest level possible. This belief is totally inclusive of all people, no matter what they believe or how much they have sinned. And that, in my view, is pure Godliness, and certainly only something God can do. It is the ultimate in belief and exceeds all demands. Its the topping of Grace, the true flow of the Spirit and the highest attainible thing that could be expected of the most high God.

Oh how I am tempted to elaborate further on this, but I want to go further into the list.

Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: Unorthodox Universalism.
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2007, 03:22:45 PM »


No. 11 may seem like an unorthodox contridiction, I now have no other choice, but it may end up that God choose me. Which is unusual to me. God manuvers you into a position where your heart can take no other position but Universalism, and then he calls you, and lets you know he may even choose you. Although I disagree with many here as to how and when God God will actually do these two seperate steps, because the calling and choosing are very seperate stages, I understand the urge to combine the two and jump right into the heartfelt belief that they occur at the same time.

I actually believe that God will teach humility and patience to some and bring them to understand that these two are seperate and are not to be assumed as if it is a matter of faith. The calling of God is not a matter of faith, its a matter of destiny. Faith has to do with Overcomming, its an individual way of Pleasing God. An it is not easy to elaborate that to those who have assumed so much from God, because he's probally going to give then what they have assumed anyway.

Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: Unorthodox Universalism.
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2007, 08:17:07 AM »


The 12th reason I believe in the gospel of complette coverage for all, is not a game of cat and mouse, but a real story of pursuit. Why should we be attracted to religions that do not reach into our very soul. I am attracted to that which is attracted to me. That which persues me, encompasses me, consumes me.

You must seek that which seeks you.

Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: Unorthodox Universalism.
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2007, 06:09:20 PM »


13 on the list,  is the Pathology of human nature itself, vs. Gods intelectual will. I cannot accept the way hardly any religion explains this. Here we have an all encompassing super intelligent God, as God must be. He cares enough about animals to feed them, muchless create them. He gives them what they need to survive. Yet he created humankind on a much different level, and our most formidable enemy is the devil and sin. Many view God as instituting a survival of the fittest plan for humanity, in that the only ones who " Make It", will be those who do not surcome to the devil and sin. For the life AND death of me, I just cannot accept that to be the finest plan that such a God could make. It just does not make " Enough Sense", and wouldnot result in saving " Enough People", because the devil and sin are far too powerful and deceptive. For God to have planned such a supposed survival of the fittest, would be a waste of far too many humans, who obviously are just not going to adhere to such a plan for variying reasons.

Its like having billions of children, and only giving the inheritance to the " Best of the Crop." Or those who have " Enough" faith, belief, committment and endurance. It is far more Inteligent to save them all and not base the results of Salvation on the way they themselves can handle this deal of the century. To be as complette as God must be, I just assume that he has thought of a way to complettely save everyone, then based on that assumption, I search the scriptures and continue to find evidence thats exactly what he has done.

Instead of basing his plan on the pathology of humans, I base it on Gods own common sense. Humans can be complette spiritual idiots. We can be stupid biblically, and ignorant in understanding God. We can go insane, be easily tempted and led astray, be laden with so much sin that we just cannot see our way out. We can be smart and intellectually brilliant, and still not have a clue as to what and who God is. We can win a Nobel Peace prize and yet not really understand what Peace is. We can slaughter thousands of fellow humans, and wake up the next day and eat breakfast and watch TV, just to get the correct count of the people we have killed. We can lead a congregation of believers, Pastor them, then seduce little boys behind the Pulpit after services. We can marry a woman who complettely loves us, then mistreat her for the next 40 years, then won't vist her grave when she dies, won't even keep the weeds from growing over her little grave marker. Salvation cannot be based on who can somehow Overcome these things by the will of their choice and repentant powers. And those of us stuck in this behavior far out number the " Good People".

No, sin is far too formidable in its totalitarian effect on the human race for God to not have conceived of a Totalitarian response to this that could, at the least, give humanity a fighting chance to survive. And I believe Jesus Sacrifice is that totalitarian response to counter this onslaught of the devil and sin. His sacrifice was jusy grossly underated.

Peace.