Author Topic: Universal Salvation is a Conscious awareness, that is not based on awareness.  (Read 32233 times)

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Mickiel

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[quote author=whyiloveitaly link=

I apologize if I offended you in any way. I just wanted to share what I've experienced, if it could be of any benefit to you or to anyone else reading.. Otherwise just ignore it!

Blessings!
Bri
[/quote]


Well I understand, and please don't get me wrong, I am not trying to infiltrate everyones personal experiences. I can understand that many have had momemts that they feel were " Spiritual", and they count that moment as the time they were converted, or " Born Again", or something happened to them that they count the experience as one generated by God. Because of what we read in scripture, we know God can come in a dramatic way, and instantly do something to a person. That is possible, but I would disagree with any teaching that would claim that to be " Normal". It is not normal for God to call someone dramatically. It is not normal for God to supernaturally communicate with a human.

It is normal for God to slowly, over the years, deal with the human bit by bit, page by page, here a little there a little. That is the normal way that God breaks a human in. Look closely at 1 Corinth. 13:4, this is the Evidence of how God communicates with an individual. This is how God always, normally reveals himself to a human. God is Love, thus what Love is, defines how God is. Thus what Love does, is the way we can know how God does things. " Love is patient, Love is Kind and is not Jealous, does not brag and is not arrogant. Now if you go through this list, it is really a discription of Gods own personality in vs. 1-8. But notice that Love is Patient, that there reveals that the calling of God is not normally instant, as if we can nail it down to a specific moment, I disagree with that traditional notion. Not that it is impossible to do, but it is not normal, or common for God to do it, so we shouldnot expect that from him. I call it the " Big Bang Theory", you ask someone how they know they have been called, they think they have to explain some big bang moment in their lives. The Goodness of God leads to repentance, not the drama of God. Many of us are just " Spiritual Drama Queens." They start explaining their calling and it goes like this:" Well one day God threw me off the Ambassordor Bridge, and every since then I knew I was different."

No, Love bears all things in your Life, thus God will bear all things in your Life, and use all things in your Life. Are we now Gods Drama Kings and Queens, are we indoctrinated by specfic dramatical great moments in our lives? Love endures all things, thus God will endure all things, and Love never Fails. Do  you realize what it means to be called by a God, that whatever he is doing to you, whatever method he is using, will NEVER Fail? Where is the need for drama, when you hold a Power like that? No, we underestimate God, and WE have a need to dramatise things.

Look at verse 8; the name it claim it now people are trying to extend the time of Flesh, saying we will train people for 1000 years, some even think we will always be taught things in the Kingdom, as if Knowledge will last forever; " Love never Fails", that is the consistancy of Consciousness right there. " There will be gifts of prophecy, they will be DONE AWAY, IF there are Tounges they will CEASE, IF there is Knowledge, it will be DONE AWAY WITH!" God uses these things NOW, but when we motor into the Kingdom, these things will be done away with! There won"t be any teaching done in Gods Kingdom. There will be no soul Saving or some kind of Trainning being done. The WHOLE THING will be NEW, but I don't think we understand that. This is why I know we are not Born Again yet. The Kingdom of God is going to be a Fantastic Voyage, one that none of us have already experienced. Oh how misleading it is to think you are now experiencing the Kingdom of God, or the Fullness of his Spirit.

Vs.9, " For we Know IN PART, and Prophesy in Part". Look, thats it right there, from perhaps the greatest teacher God has formed on earth. We just LEARN in part, we are Just Partly Conscious of God. We are not yet fully equiped, but we LOVE to think that we are. Why, because we COVET GOD! We imagine ourselves to be what we would Love to be. And its just our imagination, it is not God. Oh but imagination is a very Powerful thing.

And I am not offended in any manner, I am the one who needs to be concerned with causing offence. These things I am sharing, can greatly offend others, espically those who have claimed things for 20 years, then here comes along this person who suggest that those 20 years, need to be re-evaluated and set on course. Oh people don't like that. I am the one who needs to be concerned with that, because I don't want to hurt people, or burst their " Spiritual Bubbles."

Peace.

whyiloveitaly.com

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Mickiel:
Well, I must say that there are a couple of scriptures that have come to mind. Indeed, God calls whom He will in His own time. And I believe that will include everyone of us. Example: Jer. 31:34--- "And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

All I can say is that I had a feeling that God existed. I began to study the Bible (without much "religious guidance") and I saw that the disciples received the baptism of the Holy Ghost. And I saw that they were changed; before it, Peter was ashamed of being a disciple. But after, he considered it a priviledge to suffer persecution for His name's sake!
So I began to pray saying, God, if you're real, I need to FEEL you! It's not enough to just believe.
And one day, it happened! (I wasn't in any church building when it did, either!) Man, what a flood of love!

And from that day, I wanted to talk about Jesus. Before, it wasn't that way.

Again, I hope I don't offend you! It's my experience. And I'm no one special!

Some would say that it was "mind over matter." All I can say is, if it is, we need more of it in this world!

And you know what?

That feeling of love made me understand that our God is a God that saves and cares. He's not like man (just like you said at the start of this thread).

And many of the religious crowd (unfortunately) haven't experienced His love yet. That's why they don't see UR.

Or maybe they just don't WANT to see UR.

Anyway, if I could say one last thing it would be, "don't box God in.--He can do more than we could ever imagine or wish!"

Many blessings!
Bri

whyiloveitaly.com

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Mickiel:
I certainly don't want to come off as "holier than thou" or as a spiritual teacher! I don't know what I would have to teach if I was! Whatever I have is not mine!
I only want to say what I have experienced myself.
I'm not interested in people doing things my way. I don't have a "my own way" and I don't know why I have had the experiences in life that I have had ("good" or "bad").
I am however interested in what others like you have experienced, since that is what we can say of a truth. Paul also testified of his "road to damascus" experience. Did he say that everyone had to do things his way or else they were not in the right? I don't think so..  I don't think Paul was a holier-than-thou-type of guy.

Bri

Mickiel

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Mickiel:
Well, I must say that there are a couple of scriptures that have come to mind. Indeed, God calls whom He will in His own time. And I believe that will include everyone of us. Example: Jer. 31:34--- "And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."Quote



Well yes, and that is a good scripture that refers to what I am saying here of late. There will be no teaching going on in Gods Kingdom, what needs to be known, will be known. Most of those who believe the Saints will be teaching and ruling, have " Romanticised that into their Self", its a Glory that they covet. They want to do it, they want to teach , they desire to Rule. Its no different than humans who want to be in Power now. So they search the Scripture from the " Lust for their own Desires", and believe from that point of view. And understand from that point of inner desires.


Quote;
All I can say is that I had a feeling that God existed. I began to study the Bible (without much "religious guidance") and I saw that the disciples received the baptism of the Holy Ghost. And I saw that they were changed; before it, Peter was ashamed of being a disciple. But after, he considered it a priviledge to suffer persecution for His name's sake!
So I began to pray saying, God, if you're real, I need to FEEL you! It's not enough to just believe. Many blessings!
Bri

Well your needs are your needs. If you need to " Feel" God, then that is the frame you have asked to be in. I see no harm in holding a need to be emotionally involved with God. But I do see a caution when Emotions are the energy behind understanding. I tend to view things differently, my feelings are not high on my list of realitys that I need with God. Perhaps oppisite than you, I ask God for realness, plain pocket pressence in my Life, in my mind, not according to how I feel, because I do not trust that, but according to my reasoning and Consciousness, my inner being that comprehends. Interestingly God will guide, often according to our personal problems. I don't have a lot of feelings about a lot of things, so I hold no intrest in " Feeling God", my problems consist of whats in my mind. My consciousness troubles me, deceives me, confuses me. My brain is what bothers me, my thinking, so God perhaps deals with me according to that.

But I do pray that your feelings are being tempered by God.

Peace.

Mickiel

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Mickiel:
I certainly don't want to come off as "holier than thou" or as a spiritual teacher! I don't know what I would have to teach if I was! Whatever I have is not mine!
I only want to say what I have experienced myself.
I'm not interested in people doing things my way. I don't have a "my own way" and I don't know why I have had the experiences in life that I have had ("good" or "bad").
I am however interested in what others like you have experienced, since that is what we can say of a truth. Paul also testified of his "road to damascus" experience. Did he say that everyone had to do things his way or else they were not in the right? I don't think so..  I don't think Paul was a holier-than-thou-type of guy.

Bri

Well again, speaking for myself, my dealings with God are not based on experiences, but it is impossible NOT to have experiences. Experience just means events in our history. We all have that, but in my life, I hold to what God has done and is doing to my consciousness. I am sure others here can give you exciting experiences to thrill the imagination. And I think that can be exciting, because its real. But as for me, I am headed into areas that hold a more sure foundation than experiences. Because thats what I need. I need a conversion in my mind, something to deal with this bad head of mine.

Peace.

Mickiel

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It kind of tickles me sometimes the knowledge some feel they have a " Spiritual Cap" on. They feel their consciousness is sealed on the subject, and they have it right. Then they speak about what others have wrong.

Let me show you something Paul thought about being Born Again. In Phil. 3:10, Paul is speaking about being Born Again. " That I may know him, and the Power of his Ressurection, the fellowship of his Sufferings, being CONFORMED to his Death." These are the essence of being Born Again. Now some of you may not see this, but the Apostle is refering to the New Birth, AFTER the ressurection. Vs. 11, In Order that I may attian to the ressurection from the Dead, in other words, that I may be Born Again. He is specifically speaking about death, then comming back from the dead, or a New Birth. Not Symbolically, but Literally.

Vs.12;" Not that I have Already Obtained it, or have Already become Perfect." Hes saying here, not that I have Already been Born Again, or not that I have Already entered into the Spirit relm, where perfection is the Norm.

Pauyl knew that being Born Again was a future event in his calling, to come after he is ressurected. Notice vs. 13; " I do not regard myself as having already laid hold of it." And this is what many have done, and done it most comfortablly, having already laid hold of being Born Again, and having the Kingdom in them now. No need for the Ressurection, no need for A Spirit body, no need for those things, they have reached pass those things, and claim the prize right now in the flesh. Perfection has already come, they have already disguarded the Partial, and are somehow fully clothed with the Spirit in the Flesh, as those Spirit beings are fully clothed in the Spirit relm.

Drinking from whatever, they view themselves already full. In 1 Corinth. 10: 1-6, our forefathers all were baptised, all ate the same Spiritual Food, and drank the same Spiritual Drink, they were inspired by the same Spiritual rock which followed them, and that rock was Christ. But God was not pleased with MOST of them. WHY? Because they " Craved things", they coveted things from God, things that were " godly". They wanted a form and shape of God to worship, a " Label they could see and make a claim to."

The labels now are just a different form and shape of God. Now the labels, or the idols, are being Born again NOW, having the Kingdom within now, these are the " Modernday idols". These are what Gods people covet now, these are what the people refuse to wait on, these are the " Idols", but the people do not see it that way, as they didnot years ago.

Peace.

Mickiel

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If you look at Isaiah 45:7; "I am the Lord, there is no other. The One forming Light and creating Darkness, Causing well being and Creating Calamity; I am the Lord who does ALL these things." This is the Control stick to Consciousness, this is Great Awesome Power. This turns the Heat on and off, this takes out the Old and Brings in the New.

People wonder why God just has not instantly given humanity everything they need to become Spirit beings instantly, well thats exactly what God will do. Read verse 8;" Drip down, O heavens, from above, and let the clouds pour down Righteousness, let the earth open up and Salvation Bear Fruit, and Righteousness Spring up with it, I, the Lord, Have Created this." God will Rain down Salvation and Righteousness, and Baptise the entire world at the same time, as he rain down his Spirit on the Day of Pentecost. And Righteousness will be Born into humanity. This is the Potter displaying Large scale reconciliation. Where God will mold the entire Consciousness of a Planet. Yet men are not aware that God will do this.

Men seek to shape their own Consciousness, and even the men of God, seek to be stimulated by their feelings and amazed by their emotions, and be comforted by Gods Splendor, rather than go the route of Christ, and suffer through the complettion of Gods will.

We stand on the brink of eternal change, and find it hard to suffer temporarily. So our consciousness begs for release from the pain, we have not learned the lesson of Job. We are given Spiritual Consciousness not only to believe, but to suffer for his sake, Phil.1:29. Once Jesuys was transfigured and Born again from flesh to Spirit, he never suffered again. Why would God bring us into the New Birth, only to let us continue to suffer for years? The New Birth is the End of those things. All things become new, there will be no more suffering when we have the Kingdom Life. Our new Consciousness will not know suffering. 

We will have a New Mind, and a New Power inside of us. Not a Power that needs to be learned, a Power that needs to be Lived!

Let me ask you something. If you had a baby, a child, and you wanted that child to learn something, and you were told that the child will have 500 years to learn that one thing, would you be so concerned about the child learning it? Well considering the amount of time alloted to you, I don't think it should be a concern. Now let me ask you this; God has all of Eternity in front of us, do you think he is concerned about our learning things? He has the Power to instantly make aware, do you think he is concerned with our Consciousness? Do you know how Long we will be with God? Do you understand just how long forever really is? Learning things in the Kingdom is no big deal at all. Any kind of wisdom or knowledge, or understanding you pick out, you can individually take 12 trillion years to understand it, and still not be behind, you won't loose any time, because there will be no time to loose.

You don't have to worry about individually meeting everyone, you can take 500 billion years to do that. There won't be any pressure to succeed, you will already be a Son of the Most High. You won't have to worry about growing Spiritually, because you will be just like Christ, full of Gods Holy Spirit. As will every former human being.  What needs do you think you would possibily have? Do you understand what being in Gods Favor for Eternity will encompass? Are you able to comprehend the carpet that has been laid before you?

God has complette control of Eternity, and its almost frigthening to consider what he has planned for our Consciousness.

Peace.

Offline reFORMer

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I've met zealous religious persons who seemed to teach that the first Rule of Bible interpretation is that everything is written to another people at another time in another place.  The second Rule is like unto the first.  If anything remains that seems to apply to you, you've mis-interpreted it.

As long as you put everything into the future that is where it will stay (except for the over-riding grace of God.)  I've discovered that through the presence of God (Exodus 3313-16) such things as partaking of, "the powers of the age to come" (Hebrews 65) or even moments wearing God as we wear our bodies, things of that class, are to be experienced now.  How could Melchisadek come into a state of being "without beginning of days or end of years" if he didn't believe it, but rather relegated it to some never arriving future?  "[God] speaks of those things that are not as though they already were."
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Mickiel

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Universal Salvation is a Conscious awareness, that is not based on Conscious awareness, and often our sins is the same. The Sins of some men are quite evident, going before them to judgement; for others, their sins follow after. 1Tim.5:24.  We do this because often we are not Conscious of the things that are against even ourselves, 1Corinth.4:4, so rather than judge each other, we look to the consciousness of God to judge us. If left to ourselves, we would judge each other too quickly, vs.5, because of our nature we even judge before the time to judge.

We take before the time to take. We claim before the time to claim. And in vs.8, we consider ourselves already filled with Gods Holy Spirit to its fullness, we take further and consider ourselves to have already obtained, and we become Kings before our time, we take residence in the Kingdom before it arrives. Even since the days of John the Baptist up until now, the Kingdom of Heaven suffers from men taking it by the Violence of their greed, Matt. 11:12. The followers of God seize it for themselves , by the greed of the doctrines of their mouths and hearts.

Jesus, in Luke 16:16, reveals that the Law and the Prophets were preached until John, but even since John came on the scene, then the Gospel of the Kingdom was preached, then interestingly Jesus said " And everyone is Forcing their way into it." How do men force their way into the Kingdom of God? Well they can't wait for it, so they create doctrines that teach that you don't have to wait, you can have it now. It may be highly esteemed amoung those who accept this force, it is looked on as " A Spiritual Thing" to have the Kingdom within, but that which is highly esteemed amoung men, is detestable in the sight of God, vs.15. And this is Jesus opinion concerning those who take the Kingdom by force.

In  fact Jesus statement in vs.17, is related to those who seek to force the Kingdom within now, " But it is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away, than for one stroke of the letter of the Law to Fail." Which is to say, " Before you can force the Kingdom of God to be within, there would be no Kingdom at all."

How is it then possible for the Kingdom of God to suffer " Violence", and then for Violent people to " Take it by Force?" Well the Gospel of the Kingdom, is the Good News that it is comming to earth. The Kingdom suffers Violence, by being misrepresented as already being here, within the people. Violence can certainly mean a misrepresentation of Content, meaning or intent. So you take the Kingdom by force, by misrepresenting when it is actually here and how it is here. So people who make the claim that it is here, make that claim by the violence of their belief, or the misinterpitation of their hearts, because violence also means intense energy.

To desire the Kingdom before its time, is simply longing for it to come. But to make claims that it is already come and within you, is " Coveting", which is different than desire or yearning. To Covet, is to desire wrongfully. It is inordinate desire, you want to grasp or posses something which you do not yet own the rights to. All things have been handed over to Jesus by the Father, Jesus owns the right to the Kingdom now. And Jesus said people are taking the Kingdom by violence. Those who are doing this, are NOT unbelievers, they are believers, so understand that. Believers are doing this.

And Jesus proclaimed that he would give his disciples the " Keys to the Kingdom", not the ownership deeds to it. Matt.16:19. He would give them the ability to understand what it is, open their minds to it.

But thats not enough for some believers. They desire more, and I want to go into that.

Peace.

whyiloveitaly.com

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Mickiel:
It's hard to dialogue with you when you write pages of text. Can you narrow it down to a couple of lines (for me)?

Thanks!
bri

Mickiel

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Mickiel:
It's hard to dialogue with you when you write pages of text. Can you narrow it down to a couple of lines (for me)?

Thanks!
bri


As you wish, I can do that. 1Corinth.12:31" But earnestly desire the Greater Gifts". This desire to have something greater, is the beginning of the Spirit of Coveting. We are opened to have Love now, Edification now, but is tounges for now? Is Prophecy for now? We are opened to have Gifts of teaching now, gifts of knowledge and gifts of wisdom, but are we opened to have the Gift of being Born Again now, being in the Kingdom now?

Or are we coveting after the gifts that are out of our range and now within Gods willingness to impart at this time? Thats the question we need to be asking ourselves. When the Spirit of Greed and taking the things of God by Violence has been magnified within us, we willnot ask these questions. A theif does not ask may they steal.

Now it does not matter to me how much people have to say when they dialog with me, I hold them to no limitations or reductions. And I hold you to none, but I will submit to your every request made of me, so that you and I can have a clear understanding.

Perace.

Offline Peacetroll

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Matthew 11:12
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

The Kingdom of Heaven is Christ, and the voilent did take him by force.

Luke 17:21 (New American Standard Bible)

21nor will (A)they say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst."

Luke 17:21 (New International Reader's Version) 
21 People will not say, 'Here it is.' Or, 'There it is.' God's kingdom is among you."


You will find that theologians everywhere are conceding to the Luke 17:21 interpretations given by the NASB and its scholars.

Onward...

The prophecy of Christ being taken by the voilent and wicked was foretold by David long ago..

Psalm 22
 7All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,

 8He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.

 9But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.

 10I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.

 11Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.

 12Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.

 13They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.

 14I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.

 15My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.

 16For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.


I ask you all, did the violent NOT take Christ by force?????????

Luke 22:53
"While I was with you daily in the temple, you did not lay hands on Me; but this hour and the power of darkness are yours."


Peace.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2008, 10:24:16 PM by Peacetroll »
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Mickiel

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Matthew 11:12
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

The Kingdom of Heaven is Christ, and the voilent did take him by force.


Well again I disagree with this interpitation, the only Violence shown at Jesus arrest, was done by a disciple, who violently cut off a guards ear, not by those arresting Jesus. Judas, a disciple, betrayed Jesus with a Kiss, so the only violence shown at Jesus arrest, was by his own people, as far as who displayed violence, and who caused him to be taken in the first place.

And it is still his people that Jesus was refering to in Luke 16:16, when he plainly stated that everyone is forcing their way into the Kingdom. No twist of words can change what Jesus himself meant here. Jesus meant that men were then, and would now, misinterpit when the Kingdom was to come. Because only the Father knows when the Kingdom of Heaven will come to earth, but those who force their claim on the Kingdom now, superseed Christ and the Father both, and usurp the Kingdom from Heaven and place it within themselves. They force the Kingdom inside of themselves.
 Placing themselves above God, they know when the Kingdom will return, because they make themselves the Kingdom.

In fact, to claim that the Kingdom is now within you, is to " Greive the Holy Spirit", by which we are sealed for the day the Kingdom comes. And I will show that, but I have promised not to be long.

Peace.

Mickiel

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I had wanted to show how making claims that the Kingdom of God is now within you, or really making any false claims, is a form of " Grieving the Holy Spirit." Look at John 3:33;" He who has received his witness has set his seal to this; That God is True." When we believe things ourselves, and share those things with others, that are not true, that is bearing false witness. It is also " Greiving the Holy Spirit", or causing someonelse to be confused, which introduces " Sorrow" into their lives, because they have been given deception, and fed it as if it is Truth. And that will cause to stumble. Thats 3 different problems that indoctrinating people with false doctrines will cause, and those are just the tip of the ice bergs, it will cause much more damage. And it has.

Let me show you something that even Jesus death cannot change. In Romans 3:20;" No Flesh will be justified in Gods Sight." In 1Corinth. 15:50; " Flesh and Blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God." There is no comprimise to these things. I don't care how converted one may be, how spiritual they are, in their human body, there can be no justification in Gods Sight. This is another thing Jesus took on his shoulders, we are Justified by him, through him, not of ourselves, or not in or by our bodys, forgiven or not.

Our body is perishable, sown in dishonor. The ressurection of the dead, which is also the New Birth, will bring about a totally New Body that is Imperishable, 1 Corinth. 15:35-50. If you believe that you are now Born Again, the Kingdom now within, you are saying that the body you now have is justified, Glorified and imperishable, thus acceptable in Gods Kingdom right now. That you are already a Heavenly Creature, but just one who happens to sin and must still yet die again. And those are false fetish feelings.

Peace.

Offline reFORMer

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Commonly, many Christians have a crisis experience, or dramatic juncture in time in which they know they've been changed, that before then God was a belief and after they intimately know Him.  He has revealed Himself to them.  He has put something of Himself within and that the Holy Spirit has "regenerated" them.  It is a vivification of their spirit only that they understand to have occured.  God is now directly expressing as Spirit substance to us rather than flesh embodiment, as was Jesus in the days of His humiliation.  They work together with this other comforter God has now given them to adjust their souls to be in accordance with the will and Spirit of God, that the salvation of their spirit would be wrought in their souls.  This progressive conformity to God in the realm of thought, emotion and will some call sanctification.  They do not claim to have yet obtained the salvation of the body, though gifts of healings are promisory experiences with God that point to the certainty of resurrection and transfiguration, which wil be what Scripture calls, "The redemption (meaning:  'liberation' or 'releasing') of the purchased possession."

I have discovered that the sending of the Holy Spirit to us in Jesus's name is from where Jesus is in the right of the Father.  The Spirit we are receiving is from the realm of ascension.  Scripture says, "Those who are baptised (dip-ized) into Christ are baptised into His death."  This is not into water, but into Him.  As enemies we were made to be at peace with, "conciliated to God through the death of His Son, much rather ['how much more!], being conciliated, we shall be saved in His life.  Yet not only so, but we are glorying also in God, through our Lord Jesus Christ, through Whom we now obtained the conciliation." (Rom 510-11)  We can't glory in something we are not in.  "We are glorying also in God."  The life of Jesus was and is by the quickening of the Holy Spirit which He gives to those that love and obey Him. So we are in the "much more" of being "saved in His life."  I know that my mortal body is quickened to life by the same spirit that raised Christ from the dead because He dwells in me.  I know that I experience things pertaining to that like His body of glory, as Paul describes that in such he was not knowing "whether in the body or out of the body"...experiences of being "caught up into the third heaven..." (2 Cor 121-4)

Jesus has sanctified existence in this lowered flesh realm while in union with God by Himself having undergone it.  He has given us many "precious and greatest promises, that through these you may become participants of the Divine nature." (2 Pet 14)  "God is no respector of persons."  Others have entered into things pertaining to the salvation of the body:  Enoch, Melchisadek, Elijah, Jesus and those that were raised at that time with Him.  Jesus has set before us an open door that no man can shut.  Jesus is Himself the beginning and the end.  Any of us may enter, not only if others have, but because this is God's precept and intent to minister that entrance to us abundantly because of What and Who Jesus is.

The symbology of His entering into us is in the Feasts of Israel:  Passover, Pentecost and Tabernacles.  The symbology of our entering into Him is in the Tabernacle and Temple:  outer court, Holy Place and Holy of Holies.  Christ in us is the hope of glory.  Us in Christ is the glory revealed.

I'm trying to express that this, "salvation ready to be revealed in the last era" (1 Pet 15) is an era in each one of our lives, not only in the world.  "The time" of the end is something in God.  To believe our testimony of entering into those things that pertain to "The End" (which He is) is to see the glory of God.  What's more, I am saying we are also of the transition generation from Pentecostal anointing into the Tabernacles anointing for full placing of the physical body into inheritance as born of God in resurrection.  We are now coming to as far as we can go in the Holy Place in approach to the rent veil in order to step over into the realm of full Sonship in manifestation.  This is being made known in the abundance of miracles that are increasingly upon us at this time.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2008, 07:43:26 PM by reFORMer »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

whyiloveitaly.com

  • Guest
Mickiel:
Can you give me your input on a few scriptures that have been on my mind since we began here? I would like to know more about your perspective:

Acts 4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance...16But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

 17And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

 18And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

1 Cor. 3:16Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1 Cor 6:19What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
2 Cor. 13:5Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
2 Cor. 6:16:And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Thanks! (Remember, no more than a few paragraphs!

Bri

Mickiel

  • Guest
Mickiel:
Can you give me your input on a few scriptures that have been on my mind since we began here? I would like to know more about your perspective:


Thanks! (Remember, no more than a few paragraphs!

Bri


Those Scriptures speak about Man and the Holy Spirit Experience.

Peace.

Mickiel

  • Guest

The symbology of His entering into us is in the Feasts of Israel:  Passover, Pentecost and Tabernacles.  The symbology of our entering into Him is in the Tabernacle and Temple:  outer court, Holy Place and Holy of Holies.  Christ in us is the hope of glory.  Us in Christ is the glory revealed.

I'm trying to express that this, "salvation ready to be revealed in the last era" (1 Pet 15) is an era in each one of our lives, not only in the world.  "The time" of the end is something in God.  To believe our testimony of entering into those things that pertain to "The End" (which He is) is to see the glory of God.  What's more, I am saying we are also of the transition generation from Pentecostal anointing into the Tabernacles anointing for full placing of the physical body into inheritance as born of God in resurrection.  We are now coming to as far as we can go in the Holy Place in approach to the rent veil in order to step over into the realm of full Sonship in manifestation.  This is being made known in the abundance of miracles that are increasingly upon us at this time.


Well I certainly would disagree with this. We are not the transitional generation, and we are not being flooded with miricles. I believe the next generation, or one after that will be the transition generation. Out generation will pass, because we are too steeped into things that do not matter, things such as our grip on the Holy Days, which we can't seem to let go of. We are not in the relm of full sonship, and never will be that in this flesh.

Peace.

Mickiel

  • Guest


Let me  stretch this out a little more, because reFormer is not concerned with how long a dialog is. Jesus gets into the " Last Generation" on earth before his return in Matt.24. In 1-7, he even list all the troubles to occur on earth, and these are worldwide troubles, the focus is worldwide, not a specfic nation. In vs.8 he called all these troubles, the " Beginning of Birth Pangs", which is another reference to the future tense of being Born Again. In vs.9-13, he increases the list. But then in vs.14, he states that the gospel of the Kingdom will be preached in the whole world, and then the end shall come. I think thats plain enough, a sure tell all sign of what generation is the transitional generation. The gospel of the Kingdom is no where near being preached in all the world, BUT, God could change that in one day. The ABILITY, the Technology exist, that could sent the gospel of the Kingdom into all the world. Oh yes, but that door has not been opened.

The men you know who preach the gospel truth, ask them how much they get invited to preach. How often do you see men like Gary A., preaching on international media outlets? And if thats going to high for you, lets just use you, how often are YOU invited to speak and spread the truth on just your local media, muchless international? This is the gauge that you can use to determine Jesus prophecy, but you can't use it if you are pacifying your own generation, hoping that its your generation, so that you can be included in the honor of the latterday saints.

Look at what Jesus SAID, this is what we have problems with. Our own individual desires, are greater than the scriptures. What we COVET, is a stronger delusion than the plain truth. Thats why we can't see the truth about being Born again is future tense, the Kingdom is future tense, we covet those things so strongly, we have TAKEN them by the violence of our own desires.

In 24:15-28, Jesus goes through a terrible time on earth that will come after the gospel is even preached globally. In 29-31, his second comming even occurs, and I am not totally convinced that Jesus brings the Saints immediately down to earth with him from the air, because they are caught up into the Air with him. Now there could be a space of time to still yet elapse on earth while they are in the Air with Christ, I don't know. This 1000 year period, however long it is, makes more sense to me to occur here, rather than when Jesus touches down on earth, while they are still uniteing in the Air. Anyhow, I just don't know.

But the point being, AFTER all this has occured, then Jesus states in vs. 34, " This generation shall not pass until all these are fulfilled." This is the transitional generation, and EVERYONE who has an inkling of truth within them will KNOW when these things are occuring. And if they are not caught up in the grip of self spiritual pacification, then they conversely will know when they are NOT occuring.

Peace.

whyiloveitaly.com

  • Guest
Nothing against you, Mickiel! I don't like any entry that is pages long (maybe we all do it sometimes..). I guess I'm just lazy, and I skip over things that are long. Maybe I'm at the computer too much these days..


I've been thinking lately:

1: Passover---God (separate from) Man

then

2: Pentecost---God (mixed with) Man

then

3: Tabernacles---God (completely filling and ruling in) Man.

Who knows??
Bri

Mickiel

  • Guest
Nothing against you, Mickiel! I don't like any entry that is pages long (maybe we all do it sometimes..). I guess I'm just lazy, and I skip over things that are long. Maybe I'm at the computer too much these days..


I've been thinking lately:

1: Passover---God (separate from) Man

then

2: Pentecost---God (mixed with) Man

then

3: Tabernacles---God (completely filling and ruling in) Man.

Who knows??
Bri



Well you have been thinking along Old Covenant Holy day Lines, and trying to gain some context to bring them into New Covenant present day realitys. Which in itself, I think is a reflection of your confessed lazyness. You need to go deeper. Well you don't want to do that, so you scan the surface, and you can't get out of the Old Covenant, so you mix the two together. And you are giving relevance to things that God has taken the relevance away from, and you are taking relevance from the things God has not yet given. And I think that is because you are lazy in your study. Your mind is showing the results of your refusal to use energy in your approach to Gods word.

Peace.

whyiloveitaly.com

  • Guest
Hi Mickiel!
Well, you're probably right. I think I've gotten lazy (or tired, and I'm not sure which).
At any rate, I try to keep it simple. Simple in the sense that I ask God to lead me every day; to make me grow in Him as He desires, and to be used by Him if and how He desires. Then I just sit back and watch the results.
That doesn't mean that I don't want to go deeper. It just means that I let Him take me deeper if He wants to. The best part, though, is just talking with Him. I hope to become more like Him.

Some of what you say is complicated to me, but I try to read as much of it as I can. I find your opinions rather interesting at times, too!..

Bri

Mickiel

  • Guest
Hi Mickiel!
Well, you're probably right. I think I've gotten lazy (or tired, and I'm not sure which).
At any rate, I try to keep it simple. Simple in the sense that I ask God to lead me every day; to make me grow in Him as He desires, and to be used by Him if and how He desires. Then I just sit back and watch the results.
That doesn't mean that I don't want to go deeper. It just means that I let Him take me deeper if He wants to. The best part, though, is just talking with Him. I hope to become more like Him.

Some of what you say is complicated to me, but I try to read as much of it as I can. I find your opinions rather interesting at times, too!..

Bri



Well I understand, but just listening to you is uncomplicated to me, and simple to comprehend why there will be complications for you.. You try and keep things simple, well thats one problem your going to have with God right off, God is not simple, the bible is not simple, our future with God is not simple, the truth is not simple. So one who " Trys" to make those things simple, which I think means you put forth some effort and energy to make them simple, is just doomed to fail in such an effort.

Then you say you ask God to use you, if he so desires, then you just sit back and watch the results. Good greif, the things I could say about that, but I don't want to hurt your feelings. You seem to think that God is interested in using lazy people. If theres one example in the bible I have never seen God use, its lazy people. There are absolutely no examples of God even being interested in Lazy people in scripture.

I am tempted to say many things here, but I understand your attention span, and your lazy eye. So I'll just say this; If you truly hope to become more like God, then you need to meet mr. Change. Mr. Change is someone not many like to meet. Because if you truly desire to become more like God, then you must be willing to Change. You can't be a couch patatoe and think your going to be like God. God is active, moving, energetic and consistantly like this. That lazy tendency you have is just going to have to die. God does not call people to be comfortable and just become " Knowledge Soakers", sopping up knowledge here and there, while they grow fat on it and expect him to do everything.

Well anyhow, good luck to you. I somehow sense your going to need it.

Peace.

Mickiel

  • Guest


You know, I was thinking myself here lately. Talk about a sign of the times, the truth can be put out for people to absorb, but instead they won't listen to it, won't have the energy to read it, won't hardly pay attention to it. And you know, when the gospel of the Kingdom is preached throughout all of the world, do you know nothings going to change the people of the world. They are going to ignore it then, as they do now. Even people in Gods church, ignore the truth, simply cannot see it, or care to see it.

Look at Matt. 38-39; " For as in those days which were before the flood they were eating and drinking, they were marrying and giving in marriage, until the day Noah entered into the Ark. And they didnot understand until the flood came and took them away, so shall the comming of the Son of Man be." People in the world, AND some in Gods church, willnot understand just what is going on. People will be " Going on with their Lives", more interested in whats for dinner or whats on TV, than in Gods Truth. And you can see the head of this sticking out now.

Listen, these things will happen like this, because the Consciousness of humanity is being " Kept off Balance", and Spiritual humanity is not exempt from this. Spiritual humanity is off into these areas of " Choking on knats", or being thrown off by issues that shouldnot be issues. Paying attention to the spinning of those forces that are against God
, but know how to appear as God.

The BEST way to keep a Spiritual person off balance, is to " Keep the floor Spiritual", and keep it slippery.

Peace.

whyiloveitaly.com

  • Guest
Hi Mickiel:
All I know is, if I study too much, I start to feel dizzy. And no matter what anyone says about flat computer screens, my eyes aren't what they used to be either.

It's not that I "try" to keep things simple; it's just that long complicated things are started to weigh on me. I do better piece by piece.
(Gosh, and I'm only 37!)

Look, if the Kingdom of God is all about working hard and studying deep things, I don't think I'll make it. I just want to BE and BE with Him. Anything more, it might get rough for me..

Brian