Author Topic: Universal Salvation is a Conscious awareness, that is not based on awareness.  (Read 30689 times)

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Mickiel

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And like anythingelse, if you have something and are not aware of having it, that is a reduction of awareness, thus a reduction of the reality of having it, thus it really does not add to your reality of having it, if you are not conscious of having it. Because you are not Conscious of having it, does not mean it does not exist in reality, it just means your reality is not based on your consciousness of things, although it may begin with your consciousness of things.

Universal Salvation can be a deep consciousness on one end of thinking, but yet it can be very shallow on another end of thinking. For example, to one who is temporal and hoping to be eternal, Universal Eternity can be a very enthusiastic thought, but there may be one who is already on the other end of Eternity, already living in Eternity, and to them Universal Salvation has nothing to do with them, they are already in eternity, and they never have or ever will need Salvation from anything. So to them personally, it is not the same Consciousness, not the same enigma. One can recall the logic of " When I was a child, I thought as a Child, but when I became an Adult, I think differently." So if a person was never a child in their creation, does that mean they never thought as a Child? Such as Adam. Or certain Angels. Or the 24 Elders God created, they had no childhood, they were created already VASTLY aged, or something that means " Advanced in Wisdom", and responsibility. God created 24 Beings who are older than anyonelse, they are prior in orgin, senior in rank and are pertaining to earlier times with God. Universal Salvation holds no inward personal meaning to these beings, they only consider it as something for humans. But I am sure they take Joy in that for us.

 But their Consciousness toward Salvation is Different than ours, as is Gods himself. God does not look at Universal Salvation the same way that we do, God is not human. Salvation is not a personal need of God, it is a personal need of ours. We humans ourselves even view Universal Salvation differently, amoungst our own thinking.

Universal Salvation is a Conscious Awareness, that is not based on that Awareness. Its based on Gods Awareness, and human awareness is not a determining factor in it. If you look closer at Jesus aittitude and feverish dependance on Gods Will, there is something to be learned there, because it is something there. Whenever you see a very powerful being, craving to be in submission to another very powerful being, you have to figure he knows something. He is conscious of something, keenly aware of something. Something is amist.

Look at John 17:25, one of my very favorite scriptures;" O Righteous Father, although the world has not Known thee, yet I have Known thee." You ever wonder what Jesus knows about God? Jesus is Aware of God, many things about him. Jesus is Conscious of God.

The world is not Conscious of Universal Salvation, thankfully the Salvation is not based on their awareness of it. Dying on the tree, Jesus asked God to forgive humanity for killing him, because they didnot know what they were doing. They were conscious men killing him, but they really were unconscious, or unaware of the significance of what they did, and the personage they did it to. And the fruit of that unconscious behavior, still ranks as a curse down through the generations of men who are still not aware of what eternal Consciousness really is.

Peace.

Offline 97531

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Hi Mickiel

Nice post, good to see you posting again.

Blessings
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Mickiel

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The world is not Conscious of Universal Salvation, thankfully the Salvation is not based on their awareness of it. Dying on the tree, Jesus asked God to forgive humanity for killing him, because they didnot know what they were doing. They were conscious men killing him, but they really were unconscious, or unaware of the significance of what they did, and the personage they did it to. And the fruit of that unconscious behavior, still ranks as a curse down through the generations of men who are still not aware of what eternal Consciousness really is.

Peace.
[/quote]

Greetings to you also SeekerSA.

In Dealing with the Consciousness of humanity, there are just differing areas of Consciousness that are there, and not there. In dealing with Universal Salvation, the Consciousness is basically not there. Something about Jesus, turned men off from him, when it really shouldnot have been that way. Notice John 1:11;" He came to his own, and those who were his own  didnot receive him." Why would men make a Conscious decision to not receive Christ, I mean somethings not right with that.  Why did this man, who was true Light, not prick the Consciousness of those who were just not aware of " Certain Things" about him?

Well one reason I believe, is that Jesus was after the " Unconscious Man", looking to appeal to that first, and actually planning to deal with the " Conscious Man", much later. From the first man Adams children, on throughout much of history, God seems to deal mostly with the " Unawareness" of Man, and I mean heavily focusing on the Unconscious man, giving hardly no Spiritual Consciousness.

In John 5:17; " My Father is working until now, and I am working", well just what are they working on? Well I think one thing is the Unconscious Mind of Man. Yes, they have been, are now, and will be working on the mind of Man.

Does a human have to be Conscious of Gods dealings with them? Well it would be nice if we were, but if we were not, does that negate or limit Gods appeal? Does a human have to wait until God calls them, to be molded by God, well I think not. Human history is not a waste of time, God has been doing things to every human being created, all while they were alive, and even after they have died.

You know why, because Consciousness is not a barrier to God working.

Peace.

Mickiel

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In you look closer at Genesis 1, where God and Christ are creating, their focus was not first on man. Their doing this and creating that, and bringing this into existence and forming so many, many wonderful things. Except man. But after they are finished with those things, they eventually get to creating humans. A definte pattern of creating in " Stages" AND" departments". Given that they hold the power to create all things in " Complette Instantancy", they don't. Seeming to prefer that things be allowed to Grow.

Even humans Spiritual development has fallen into this exact same pattern. Seemingly ignored now, they are focusing on other things. But is it really ignored?

If a painter paints a scene of a landscape, then you have a landscape. But if the Painter paints himself, painting the landscape, then you have added dimension which can be seen, but was already in reality anyway. You can now see what the painter is doing or has done, but are in a mindset to give him more credit. This is very simular with what God and Christ are doing. Universal Salvation is the result of a discussion that God and Christ had at one time. During this discussion, the future of the Consicousness of humanity was complentated. In Gen.1:26, the statement;" Let us make man in our Image", surely has to do with " Consciousness", amoung whateverelse it has to do with.

As I look at consciousness, some people seem to be aware of " Good and Evil", others don't. Some are aware of right and wrong, day and night, up and down. So I wonder just what Consciousness really is. And what has it to do with Universal Salvation?

Peace.

Mickiel

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The world seems not to really care about God much, not the world as a whole. There is a significant number of people who are curious about God, and as the numbers grow smaller in that group, you find more serious belief. Curiousity is a reflection of Consiciousness. The person is taking thought of something. Beginning to figure and find something to understand. I often wonder why God created man with such a hughe hole in him. Such a giant missing link in our nature. So many mislead desires in our understanding. I really am beginning to believe that not only is our Spiritual understanding limited, but so is just our mere Conciousness.

To stand and reach out to God and desire so much from him, we are just empty beings. It makes Jesus statement, " My Grace is sufficent for you, my power is perfected in weakness", such an egnimatic projection. There is power in Consciousness, and Jesus suggest that his Power, which is directly tied into Consciousness, is made perfect in weakness. Progressing further from that, the actual weakening of our Consciousness, will lead to being introduced to the actual Power of Christ.

Every time we suffer, it is a " Weakening of our Consciousness." The more we suffer, in a sense, the more we could, could, come to see what consciousness has to do with eternity. Seems strange to me, to be pushed away from Power, in order to understand Power. To have power manipulate your Consciousness, so that you can know it will never be the other way around.

Peace.

Kept

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Wow Mickiel! Awesome posts. I love what all God is revealing and working in you and how you came to share it with us is so sweet. Thanks so much. Saving these posts.

kept  :thumbsup: :HeartThrob:

Mickiel

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Wow Mickiel! Awesome posts. I love what all God is revealing and working in you and how you came to share it with us is so sweet. Thanks so much. Saving these posts.

kept  :thumbsup: :HeartThrob:


Well hello,

 Universal Salvation is a Conscious Awareness, yet its not based on how we think. You know God can very easily manipulate the Consciousness of a human being, and I think he does it more than we are aware of. In Isaiah 49:5, God forms people from the womb to be his servant, well what about the rest of the people who do not believe in God, well they were formed not to. Either God is racist at the womb, or he controls each and every birth, even in its prenatal state. The prenatal state, most likely the beginning of Consciousness, is the " Prime Place" for God to plant belief and behavior into a human being, because their first 5 years will be of utmost importance in their Consciousness.

Now if God intends on giving all of humanity Eternal Life, then why should he wait until they live their entire human lives, die and be ressurected, and then start dealing with them about their future? Here we have a being that can deal with a person even before they are born, he can " Form" anything within them while they are yet still in the womb, and that word " Form", can mean so much in conotation, or teaching implications along the lines of life long influence,  then he need not wait for a " Birth", or a second Birth, to begin teaching them. And I don't think he is doing that. Hes teaching them each and everyday of their lives, all of us. The level of teaching, as with the level of awareness, changes or is manipluated by Consciousness.

I am even beginning to believe that Spirituality is a Consciousness of its own, not merely another level, but an entirely differing level. Mental retardation is a level of Consciousness, its just different. Being dead is a different level of Consciousness, one could say its just " Nothing", or no thinking at all. But if that dead thing has a future life with God, then we just cannot say they have no Consciousness, we can only call it " Sleep."

If we are not aware of something, it does not mean we will never be aware of it, our Consciousness just sleeps in that area. But if God wills that we learn in our Sleep, then we will. Those who are not aware of Universal Salvation, are only Sleep, and thats the ONLY reason they cannot see it. When God wraps a Consciousness around a message, that mind will wholeheartedly embrace the message, and if not wholeheartedly, then at whatever grow level God deems it to do.

So the thinking of humanity is not important to the relevancy of Universalism, nor their belief. Eternity does not gain relevance and Power from the acceptance of it, thats like saying reality itself gains in realness as we accept it. Universalism in Eternity is not based on the awareness of it. Eternity is established by itself, not our belief in its consistancy. Eternity didnot begin, it began everythingelse that exist. From eternity came Time. From eternity came Human Consciousness. So the fate of human Consciousness, is based on from whence it came. God is Eternity, thus God is also Fate, thus he is our beginning and our Ending.

Thus God is Consciousness.

Peace.

Mickiel

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To examine yourself is a good habit to have from time to time. You ever wonder why you believe in Universal Salvation, why you are Conscious of it? You think maybe you were manipulated by God into it? How and why did God do it? Whatever those answers are, I tend to think of it as " Positional", and our era of Birth, or the times we were born into. During these times, God wanted a certain amount of people to be opened to the truth. And those opened, fill two things; 1.Position, God wanted a certain kind of human to be in a position, so its a filling of a Spiritual Space that God wanted covered. 2. You just happen to be born into this era, so really you are born into the Position. Because it was decided before you were born, it is then not a Conscious decision on your part. But along with position and era, or this space of time, God wants the position filled with a certain " Type, or kind of Characther". So this is what he " Worked on " before you were born even. Manipulating your genectic make up,  your comming environment, your family, your parents, your friends, your career, all the things that " Influence" you, have been manipulated to " Mold you", to the calling of God. This is one of the areas that the " Father is Working", both before, during, and after even your birth. And all these things has helped in forming your Consciousness.

Look at 1Corinth. 14:22;"So then tounges are for a sign, not to those who believe, but for unbelievers. But Prophecy IS for a Sign, NOT to unbelievers, but to Believers.". Prophecy is a declaration of events to come, but the events were not designed by the prophet, they were designed by God, inspired by God. Even the Prophet was inspired by God. Universal Salvation is a Prophecy, and the greatest one, that I have read. If you place those two things together, Conscious Awareness, and Prophecy, then knowing that God inspires one to even hold belief in him, can you see how God controls all the integral events that bear pertinence in Life. The foretelling of the Salvation of all, is a unique opening of the Consciousness, and that opens the Heart.

Not being aware of Universal Salvation, is a sleep. 1Corinth. 15:20. Look at verse 23;" But each in his own order." Universal Salvation is " Positional and Environmental". The positions are made less numerical by vs. 22, its All, but moreso environmental, or the era you are born in, each in his own " Order", or literally the time you became conscious into. If you throughly examine the history of humanity, and think about what you really believe in,  then the calling of God is mostly environmental, and lightly positional, because all the positions will be filled. There really is not much evidence in Gods calling being based on human individual characther, or you can say consciousness, nor on the level of righteousness in the human, its moreso that we " Inherited Salvation", as one would inherit an environment, and just was born into it.

So human Consciousness has a " Staged effect" which was preconceived by God and Christ, in their board meeting.

Peace.

Mickiel

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People were called by God , based on the hisrorical environment on earth, as it relates to Gods plan. They were called based on certain geographics in Gods mind that related to specfic areas on earth. Isreal was called as an example of human nature, but even their calling was environmental and geographic. And even those called during the last days and times, will be called based on their geographic positioning on earth, because God wants to show he has drawn from every area on earth. So the opening of human consicousness to universal salvation, or the calling of God, is moreso based on geographics, than it is on personal characther.

Secondly, I think God is more interested in filling these positions with certain " Characthers", and then he will work on those characthers. NOT righteous characthers, well maybe just a few, but mostly the calling of God will choose from a rainbow coalition of sinners. God wants to be sure he calls enough examples from every area of sin possible. To show that his grace will covert anything. And this is the real reason no one can boast in their calling, but most called just don't know this. They were not called because they were righteous, but because they were sinners who lived in certain areas, and held certain characther flaws and were born during a certain time.

Who knows Gods quota, he may want 1,000 drunkards, 5,000 liars, 500 theifs and 700 lust filled people. He may want 2,000 from America, 5,000 from the middle east, perhaps only 2 from China, and 30 from Canada, and 10,000 from France, I don't know, but this thing is going along these lines. People are not called because they are wise, or Spiritually Conscious, or hold some kind of Golden Characther or have " Good Hearts." Once the decision has been made to choose them to fill the position, God releases his Spirit to begin to " Work on them", work on their environment, work on the influences all during their lives, and those environments, will include others around them being adjusted to accomplish Gods will.

So being brought to Spiritual Consciousness, is not a matter of Pride, in fact the individual had absolutely nothing to do with it. This is why Pride is so dangerous to the Consciousness of God. Because its a natural human reaction to having anything elevated from within. Their going to think;" Well God called me because" I", or God choose me because of something " I". No, Spiritual consciousness is moreso positional and geographical, and will ultimately cover every single person on earth.

Peace.

Mickiel

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Once a baby is born, it knows nothing, but it knows its alive. Consciousness of God is the same. Once God pricks a mind, the mind knows it has been pricked, it knows nothingelse about God. It may have " Prior Knowledge" " Concerning God", but that knowledge may or may not have been influenced by God.

But now relate to this: once a baby really, really begins to understand that they have life, I mean really understand it, oh my goodness, that baby is going to run wild with their life, I mean just fully enjoying it. Running around and testing their legs and arms, and pushing their vocal chords to the limit. As  it becomes more aware of their life, it will function according to that awareness. Spiritual awareness is no different. Once a human mind is aware that  God is dealing with them, oh my goodness, the things we then start thinking and doing. Oh how we start testing God then. And this is a " Major Class" in Gods school of annointing. Oh how he has to deal with that in his people.

Becomming Conscious is a challange in Life. Here we have this mind, what are we to do with it? Then we see this BOLD statement in scripture;" Let this Mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus", oh well, thats what to do with it. Sounds simple, right? I don't think so, one just can't finger snap the mind of Christ into themselves. What that scripture means is to share Consciousness AS Christ does. Jesus constantly pointed to and desired God. Complette total devotion, that IS his consciousness. That verse would be better rendered let this mind be in you that IS IN Jesus. Not was, is! Jesus IS submissive to God, not was. Jesus IS right now thinking about his Father, and thats VERY easy to speculate on, because we can know how Jesus IS through Scripture. Because things were times past, we tend to think " Was", but God IS! Whatever things Jesus displayed in his thinking IS, now IS, not was.

And that is an integral part of Consciousness, if you hold consciousness, you are IS, not was. Your thinking IS now online.

Peace.

Mickiel

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In life as we know it and have seen it, human nature has just run wild with its life. I have been conscious for 52 years, and that is all that I have ever seen, and each year it gets worse. Sometimes I wonder about that. How has humanity continued to survive, although it constantly gets worse? Were there ever years of humanity improving? The technology improved, the science improved, but did humanitys Spirituality improve? I personally don't think humanity was ever given Concious constant Spiritual improvement by God. Look at 2 Thess. 1:5;" This is a " Plain Indication" of Gods righteous Judgement so that you may be considered worthy of the Kingdom of God, for which indeed you are suffering." Suffering is a " Plain Indication" that God has already passed a judgement for entrance into his Kingdom.

The world is suffering because God has passed his judgement upon us to suffer, and this weather one is called of God or not. The suffering will pass humanity into being worthy, because they will have suffered greatly. Its only just of God to repay suffering with joy.

Consider this, concerning Gods  Judgements; If all of humanity was placed into suffering from its conception, what then should be Gods reaction to the suffering, and remember, the greatest form of suffering, is to be apart from God. For men to be placed apart from God is an unintentional neglect of Salvation. Its not then correct to judge them based on their awareness. Because Salvation is a Conscious awareness, and its not based on that awareness.

Peace.

Mickiel

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Let me say a little bit about Consciousness and Sin. Once we are aware of Sin, then we are mentaliy involved with it. I believe it has always been with us, and within. Its not what goes into the man that defiles him, its what " Comes out of him", and that defiling thing comming out is sin. We can think about sinful things without sinning. Evil can cross over into our thoughts, without commiting the evil ourselves. The sin is there, or our conscious awareness of sin is in place in our minds. If we take the thought and turn it into purposeful action, then we sin. If we take the thought, and mentally give the thought action, even if its just mental action, then we sin within our own minds.

In James 1:14;" But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by their own lust". Here its still a mental thing, purely conscious thinking, or the being " Carried Away", this is all purely mental at this stage. Enticed by their OWN Lust, or interested in something, and its purely by your own intrest, no outside influence to place blame on.

Then in vs. 15, the thought, or the consciousness that is aware, begins to want to take action, and that action comming out of you is what really defiles you. " Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin", the thought has went up, it has taken root, and now looks to grow outside of you, no longer inner.

For example, one could be at work and see something on a shelf. Weeks pass by and its still there. The mind wants and desires whats on that shelf. So the consciousness begins to rationalize taking it. In fact, theres plently of them there on the shelf. No one wants it. Its out of place. Its not being used, it won't be missed. You could put it to use. You are tempted and carried away by your own desire to have it, then once you have convinced yourself to take it, you just take it.  And I will use myself as an example, just in case others have never done this. Everytime I have done this, it always goes like that. I give " Myself" all the reasons to take whatever it is I took. Its been some good reasons I have come up with too.

I took the air refreshner because we had cases of it. I took the mop handle because we had 20 new ones. I took some new rags, hey, because its just a couple of rags, that means nothing! Its just a rag. When sin involves itself with consciousness, the things we rationalize can get very deep. Notice Job 15:35;" They conceive mischief and bring forth iniquity, and their mind " Prepares" deception." I like the way this is stated, their mind prepares deception. Ooh, thats a book right there to those who love to write, " The Mind preparing deception." Right there is the Consciousness of Sin.

And this consciousness can grow. Look at Pslams 7: 12 and 14; " If a man does not repent, he will sharpen his sword, bend his bow," prepare himself for more sin is what this means. Vs. 14, " He conceives mischief", or takes more conscious thought toward active sin.

Notice Isaiah 59:4, " They conceive Mischief and " Bring Forth" Iniquity. When lust has conceived it brings forth the sin being done itself. Once I conceived enough evidence within my own mind, I simply took the Air Refreshner home with me.

Rom. 5:12 even touches on this. Death spread to all men through sin. HOW? Through the Consciousness of all men, the poision spread .

Peace.

Mickiel

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I am often amazed at how humans group themselves off, and claim God for themselves. One thing that mentality does is limit God. Let me give a mathmatical problem: 

God creates    600billion humans

God ignores    599.99 billion of them

God calls       000.99 of them

---------------------------------------------------

Then waits until the Kingdom to work out other things in the rest of them.

I see some flaws in this equation. I think there are spaces of truth in it, but I have learned, or am learning to expect more from God, because we get it. God is now working in humanity, he is not ignoreing them. He is ignoring religion, he is ignoring the lack of faith on earth, he is ignoring the results of sin on earth, he is ignoring pride in people he has called, he is ignoring unbelief. So yes, God does ignore things, but he is doing a Great work on both sides of the Coin of Good and Evil.



Salvation is an awareness, that is not based on human Awareness. In Isaiah 40:5, " Then the Glory of the Lord will be revealed, and all flesh will see it." There comes a time that humanitys eyes will be opened, but humans have more than just physical eyes. God can appeal directly to the human mind, fill it with information, and close that same mind off from it. Just let it set there sealed until he opens it. God designed the Brain, and much of it is not used " By Us", that does not mean he is not using it.

People are already saved, and thats WHY God is already working with them. The annointed just think God is dealing with just them. Because thats how the Annointed like to think. No, no, God is accomplishing things NOW! In all of humanity.

We are not going to take the human experience into Gods Kingdom. When we are changed, the human experience ends, all old things will pass away, ALL things will be new. There exist no experience that we will take with us into the Kingdom of God. What we experience now are Birth Pangs. Imagine a child being in the womb for 9 months. When the child is born, what experience while in the womb, will the child need or relate to in Life? Nothing. Its over, the pre-natal is over and done with.

God is now dealing with the Consciousness of humanity, and when humans are ressurected, God simply opens in them what he is now placing within them, they are not being excluded from his Consciousness.

And this ties into what being a " Witness" really means. Salvation was accomplished before man was made, was radified while Jesus walked this earth, and in the Kingdom it will be only " Glorified". There will be no soul saving in Gods Kingdom. There will be no Salvation work going on, God is NOW working on the human Consciousness.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

Mickiel

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I wanted to Show how Salvation is a past plan, a present working, and a future Glorification. And in these three realitys, is born the Consciousness of Man.

Salvation got done in Gods mind, then Christ set about " Doing" what God set as a done deal. Now its in the " Human working Phase", or humans are being worked on now. In the Kingdom of God, Salvation is ONLY going to be  Glorified, it will be over, complettely over.

In Rev.21:4, " The First Things Have Passed AWAY!" Salvation is one of the first things. Sin is one of the first things. The CALLING of God is one of the first things.  Pain and suffering are one of the First things. Baptism, Conversion, human Spiritual Growth, Human Spiritual Learning, ALL these things are " First Things", and they will pass away. None of these things will exist in the Kingdom of God.

God is right now dealing with the " First Things". So I think being " In Christ", needs to be rethought out. 2Corinth. 5:17;" Therefore if any man is " In Christ", he is a " New Creature", the Old things have PASSED AWAY, and new things have come." There must exist a duality in the meaning behind this scripture, because far too many people " In Christ", are still hampered by " Old Things". There is no complette passing away. So I think there is room for more understanding here. More grace, more patience, more longsuffering, before we can say Old things have passed away.

So I think Consciousness has a lot to do with this. Thinking.  Mindframe, or belief. Did you know that a certain way of thinking can actually " Pass Away" from you? Oh yes, it certainly can.

Peace.

Mickiel

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In Revelations 22:3; " There shall no longer be any Curse." Right there is the end of sinful consciousness. God will put an absolute end to all curses, which also means the " Residue" of all curses, the " Effects" from all curses, and the accumulated mental handicaps derived from all types of curses. Do you realize the Giant Blessing that will be issued here? Do you know what this means?

If you jump into a puddle of Mud, nice sticky gooie mud and get it all on you. Then you go into the shower and rinse it off. You can literally see it running off of you, and going into the drain. Well God is going to do FAR greater than this. Hes going to actually cleasne our entire being, espically our minds, our consciousness. Oh man, talk about a righteous bath, God is going to wipe away far much more than our tears.

Every mental block that we have will be destroyed and dissolved. Oh man, I can't wait for that, my mind is a hotbed of the residue of curses. I get tired of my own mind sometimes, the thoughts that go through it.

But Salvation is so much more than we know, because we have this little " Mini Know it all aittitude", we tend to place knowledge of things within parameters, when they are really endless, or just " More to it."

Let me show you somethingelse about Consciousness that we do not know. In John 17:19, Jesus states something that is of intrest. " And for their sakes I Sanctify Myself." Do you know what Jesus meant by this? What has this to do with the future of human Consciousness?

Peace.

Offline CHB

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Quote from: Mickiel
There will be no soul saving in Gods Kingdom. There will be no Salvation work going on, God is NOW working on the human Consciousness.

Hi Mickiel,

I was wondering about what you said about, "no salvation work in the kingdom".

What about these verses? Would you mind telling me when you think this will happen?

(Isaiah 25:7) And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.

(Isaiah 11:11) And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left.

(Isaiah 13:9) Speaks of the day of the Lord and how he will destroy the sinners   and punish the world for their evil in verse 11. Then in verse 12 he says "I will make a man more precious than fine gold.

(Isaiah 45:23) what about every knee bowing and tongue confessing?

(Joel 2:32) says, whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord will be saved.  This talks about the day of the Lord.

The Old Testament is full of scriptures about people and nations coming before the Lord worshiping and repenting when Christ comes back. It also says God will teach the world.

CHB

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« Last Edit: January 08, 2008, 02:57:14 PM by SeekerSA »

Mickiel

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Quote from: Mickiel
There will be no soul saving in Gods Kingdom. There will be no Salvation work going on, God is NOW working on the human Consciousness.

Hi Mickiel,

I was wondering about what you said about, "no salvation work in the kingdom".

What about these verses? Would you mind telling me when you think this will happen?

(Isaiah 25:7) And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.

(Isaiah 11:11) And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left.

(Isaiah 13:9) Speaks of the day of the Lord and how he will destroy the sinners   and punish the world for their evil in verse 11. Then in verse 12 he says "I will make a man more precious than fine gold.

(Isaiah 45:23) what about every knee bowing and tongue confessing?

(Joel 2:32) says, whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord will be saved.  This talks about the day of the Lord.

The Old Testament is full of scriptures about people and nations coming before the Lord worshiping and repenting when Christ comes back. It also says God will teach the world.

CHB   


Greetings,

Well in each of the examples you listed, it speaks of God doing those things " In the Day of the Lord". The Day of the Lord starts as a precessor to  Gods Kingdom, or it " Ushers it in." Look closer at Isaiah 11:11, " Then " It will happen on that Day". This is percision prophecy, these events will happen that Day. Or any of the verses you listed, the " Day of the Lord", is a Day, not a period of Time. It all will happen within that Day, at least that is how I understand it.

But I have a question of you. What is it that you want to extend into the Kingdom of God? What is it, and Why, that you see will continue in Gods Kingdom, that exist now? I am curious to understand you also. Are you believing that people will need to be saved " During Gods Rein in his Kingdom?" Can you explain why you believe this, if you do?

Peace.

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« Last Edit: January 08, 2008, 02:59:07 PM by SeekerSA »

Offline CHB

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Greetings,

Well in each of the examples you listed, it speaks of God doing those things " In the Day of the Lord". The Day of the Lord starts as a precessor to  Gods Kingdom, or it " Ushers it in." Look closer at Isaiah 11:11, " Then " It will happen on that Day". This is percision prophecy, these events will happen that Day. Or any of the verses you listed, the " Day of the Lord", is a Day, not a period of Time. It all will happen within that Day, at least that is how I understand it.

But I have a question of you. What is it that you want to extend into the Kingdom of God? What is it, and Why, that you see will continue in Gods Kingdom, that exist now? I am curious to understand you also. Are you believing that people will need to be saved " During Gods Rein in his Kingdom?" Can you explain why you believe this, if you do?

Peace.

Hi Mickiel,

My understanding of the kingdom of God is, the thousand year reign of Christ. After this KINGDOM period is when Christ will turn over everything to the Father (1Cor. 15:24) "Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the KINGDOM TO GOD EVEN THE FATHER when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power". This KINGDOM PHASE {thousand years} is a time when Christ will teach the nations. This is the time when He puts down all power, authority, and rule. 

After everything is subdued to Christ there will not be any more salvation because all will be in God (1Cor. 15:28) And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

At this time not all are in God, so, won't it be a continuing thing until Christ has put down all power, rule and authority? I know this has been done spiritually but death still has to be destroyed, Satan still has to be dealt with.

If you see this differently, please explain.

CHB 

Mickiel

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Quote from: CHB
Hi Mickiel,

My understanding of the kingdom of God is, the thousand year reign of Christ. After this KINGDOM period is when Christ will turn over everything to the Father (1Cor. 15:24) "Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the KINGDOM TO GOD EVEN THE FATHER when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power". This KINGDOM PHASE {thousand years} is a time when Christ will teach the nations. This is the time when He puts down all power, authority, and rule. 

After everything is subdued to Christ there will not be any more salvation because all will be in God (1Cor. 15:28) And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

At this time not all are in God, so, won't it be a continuing thing until Christ has put down all power, rule and authority? I know this has been done spiritually but death still has to be destroyed, Satan still has to be dealt with.

If you see this differently, please explain.

CHB 

Well yes, I do see it differently. This 1,000 year period, I don't see that as others do. One day with God is as a thousand years with a human, I see that as symbolism, not exact measurement. All this is explained in Rev.20: 4-7. Let me ask you something. What sense would it make, for Jesus, a Spirit being, and his saints, now Spirit beings, to rule over men of flesh for 1000 years? Keep satan locked up for 1000 years, then free him, then begin all this mess all over again? What  sense does that really make?

What John saw  seemed like a 1000 years to him, because he is not eternal. One day with God, seems like 1000 years, and I think that is the key. I think these events last just one   day, and thats it. One of Gods days, not the 1000 year human concept of Gods day. It seemed like a thousand years to John.

So I think the interpitation is how one views the 1000  years. I tend to look at it like God does, hardly no time at all. But a little space of time. Enough time for God to do the other things that he wants done during this period, with no interference from satan, which is why satan is imprisioned. I think those who fanticise on ruling, well they desire that time to be a long 1000 year period, so their rule can last that long. So they can be in power longer.

But I think the key is within the Phrase, " In that Day". All these things will happen within that day.

Peace.

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« Last Edit: January 08, 2008, 03:00:51 PM by SeekerSA »

Mickiel

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Concerning these 1000 years of ruling with Christ  beliefs, if you look closer at the flow of Revelations, you will see some patterns that don't add up to me.

For example, In Rev. 17:12, Authority is given for One Hour. In 18:8, Plagues will come in One Day. In 18:10, Judgement comes in One Hour. In 18:17, Babylon is destroyed in One Hour. In 18:19, the One Hour destruction is repeated. In Chapter 19 is the return of Christ. Everything that occurs between chapters 17-19, happens in only One hour or just One Day.

So explain to me why the shift from the urgency of One Hour or One Day, to now 1000 years in Chapter 20? And why that 1000 years couldnot be symbolic of One day, and keep with the flow of events already occured?

Just curious?

Peace.

Offline CHB

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Well yes, I do see it differently. This 1,000 year period, I don't see that as others do. One day with God is as a thousand years with a human, I see that as symbolism, not exact measurement. All this is explained in Rev.20: 4-7. Let me ask you something. What sense would it make, for Jesus, a Spirit being, and his saints, now Spirit beings, to rule over men of flesh for 1000 years? Keep satan locked up for 1000 years, then free him, then begin all this mess all over again? What  sense does that really make?

My understanding of the 1000 year reign is that there will be humans still on earth. In. (Hab. 2:14) speaks about the earth being filled with the knowledge of the Lord. (Mica 4) talks about many nations going up to the mountain of the Lord to worship him and they will beat their swords into pruninghooks and learn war no more.
(Isaiah 66:22-23) For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.  And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, SHALL ALL FLESH COME TO WORSHIP BEFORE ME.
(Isaiah 11:6-11) the wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. In verse 11 it speaks of the Lord shall set his hand again THE SECOND TIME TO RECOVER THE REMNANT OF HIS PEOPLE.

(Isaiah 2) Says that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established and exalted above the hills and all nations shall flow into it.  And many people shall go up to the house of the Lord and He will teach them of his ways. I can't find it right now but it also says, a man shall live to be a hundred years old.

I don't think all of this can happen in a day.

Quote from: Mickiel
What John saw  seemed like a 1000 years to him, because he is not eternal. One day with God, seems like 1000 years, and I think that is the key. I think these events last just one   day, and thats it. One of Gods days, not the 1000 year human concept of Gods day. It seemed like a thousand years to John.

So I think the interpitation is how one views the 1000  years. I tend to look at it like God does, hardly no time at all. But a little space of time. Enough time for God to do the other things that he wants done during this period, with no interference from satan, which is why satan is imprisioned. I think those who fanticise on ruling, well they desire that time to be a long 1000 year period, so their rule can last that long. So they can be in power longer.

But I think the key is within the Phrase, " In that Day". All these things will happen within that day. Peace.
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I don't know about this, it doesn't say that it seemed like a 1000 years to John. In Psalms 90:4) For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past. It seems to me that to God a thousand years are short, {as a day}.. but to John it is still a thousand years.

CHB

Offline CHB

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Concerning these 1000 years of ruling with Christ  beliefs, if you look closer at the flow of Revelations, you will see some patterns that don't add up to me.

For example, In Rev. 17:12, Authority is given for One Hour. In 18:8, Plagues will come in One Day. In 18:10, Judgement comes in One Hour. In 18:17, Babylon is destroyed in One Hour. In 18:19, the One Hour destruction is repeated. In Chapter 19 is the return of Christ. Everything that occurs between chapters 17-19, happens in only One hour or just One Day.

So explain to me why the shift from the urgency of One Hour or One Day, to now 1000 years in Chapter 20? And why that 1000 years couldnot be symbolic of One day, and keep with the flow of events already occured?

Just curious?

Peace.

All of these things could happen in one day. All through the OT it speaks about the Lord's day and about all the things that is suppose to happen within it, cannot happen in one day. God teaching the world, one living to be a hundred, all things becoming peaceful with each other and so forth.

CHB

Mickiel

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Quote from: CHB

All of these things could happen in one day. All through the OT it speaks about the Lord's day and about all the things that is suppose to happen within it, cannot happen in one day. God teaching the world, one living to be a hundred, all things becoming peaceful with each other and so forth.

CHB

Well I think you tend to believe that there will be flesh and blood in Gods Kingdom, and that his Kingdom will be on a human time table, as far as what a day is.

And I understand that. I tend to believe differently.

Nevertheless, Peace.

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« Last Edit: January 08, 2008, 08:04:43 PM by SeekerSA »

Offline CHB

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Quote from: CHB

All of these things could happen in one day. All through the OT it speaks about the Lord's day and about all the things that is suppose to happen within it, cannot happen in one day. God teaching the world, one living to be a hundred, all things becoming peaceful with each other and so forth.

CHB

Well I think you tend to believe that there will be flesh and blood in Gods Kingdom, and that his Kingdom will be on a human time table, as far as what a day is.

And I understand that. I tend to believe differently.

Nevertheless, Peace.

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No, I don't believe flesh and blood will be in the kingdom. I do think that flesh and blood will be on earth at the same time that the kingdom will be here. I think the kingdom will only have spiritual beings in it. I don't think the kingdom will involve the whole earth during the millennium.

Now, I have wondered if all of these things haven't already happened. Am not sure of this though. I am not sure if the 1000 years is a literal 1000 years. It could be shorter but I think it was more than a day.

CHB

Mickiel

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[
No, I don't believe flesh and blood will be in the kingdom. I do think that flesh and blood will be on earth at the same time that the kingdom will be here. I think the kingdom will only have spiritual beings in it. I don't think the kingdom will involve the whole earth during the millennium.

Now, I have wondered if all of these things haven't already happened. Am not sure of this though. I am not sure if the 1000 years is a literal 1000 years. It could be shorter but I think it was more than a day.

CHB


Well now this is certainly interesting. You don't think flesh and blood will be in the Kingdom, but you do think flesh and blood will be on earth at the same time the Kingdom is here. Am I correct in assuming that you kind of mean like flesh and blood will be on the east side, then perhaps the Spirit beings will be on the west side? On the same planet, but seperate living spaces, is this correct?

Peace.