Author Topic: Universal Health Care akin to Universal Reconciliation.  (Read 3250 times)

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Mickiel

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Universal Health Care akin to Universal Reconciliation.
« on: April 28, 2008, 10:11:02 PM »


One of the more interesting topics on the Political agenda of the current American Political climate is that of Universal Health Care. The Cost of Health care is rising consistantly, and the amount of Health problems in the masses is rising just as well. One would think that with the advent of Technology and increasing Medical Knowledge, that our society would be the most healthy country on earth. But its gotten to the point that people just can't afford the Health Care. Its almost as if one can see what " Free Health Care" could do for a nation. It would be like a dream come true for America, yet its perhaps impossible to achieve such a dream here. The comparing overtones to the worlds need for free Salvation, is just too tempting to ignore.

In Isaiah 1:5 is a Prophetic  message concerning the condition of humanity;" The Whole head is sick, and the Whole Heart Faint." People really want Salvation, really in fact need it, but like Health Care, some are thinking that they cannot afford it. The Churchs that are perceived to represent God, have become the expensive doctors of Salvation. And the payment plans that they are presenting, are just too much of a burden for the people to bear.

Christian insititutions are turning out teacher after teacher, new Theologican Doctorates are being handed out year after year. Churchs sprouting up like Hospitals and Televangelist are roaming the airwaves with " a sort of free information", but need you to send in contributions to keep it free. And yet the society remains sick. Salvation is free, and yet humanity reguards it as only something to " Wish you had."

I wanted to take a look at the comparrison between Universal Health Care, and Universal Salvation. Its an interesting comparrison.

Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: Universal Health Care akin to Universal Reconciliation.
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2008, 12:58:48 AM »


I think the simplest comparrision that one could make about Universal Salvation and why it is so Overlooked, is to simply look at Universal Health Care and how the world has dealt with it. The price of everything is going up, no matter how simple of a thing it is. From Water to Rice, the cost of it is growing. As demand grows the cost will grow. Which is just like saying as the need grows the cost of the need will grow. Humanity seems to get its hands on things and make those things hard to handle for our future. 20 years ago the Apartment many are  in now, would have cost 200.00  a month. Now it cost 600.00 a month, what will it cost 10 years from now?

Humanity seems to be trapped into a pattern of cause and effect. Even our most simple needs are being affected. The dollar movie theater has inched up to the two dollar movie theater. The dollor store has now become the two dollar store, as even these are drawing more attention. Even our simple havens of trust are being hit with the waves of cause and effect. One would think at the least, humanity could at least help the sick who are unable to afford to be treated. Its getting so even healthy people cannot afford to be treated. I worked at a local hospital 5 blocks from where I stay and once got sick from something I actually caught in the hospital. Over 200 hundred of us were effected with this virus, once they tracked it down. 200 employees. I recall going to the ER with a headache that spread into my chest. I was treated and told what they had discovered. I was told to bring the bill that I got sent to the cashiers office and that the Hospital would cover it for me. I was in the ER less than one hour, received a brain scan and two pills and given a perscription. The bill was $2,784.00, which would have been 2 1/2 months of my salary there. And it was just a simple virus. One could say that they cannot afford to get sick and I for one would understand that.

The challange to humanity is to find a way to get help to people who need it, but can't afford it. But if you look at the cost of our simple needs skyrocketing, a pattern is being developed underneath here. Can you imagine a small bag of rice costing 10 dollars? Can you imagine a gallon of water costing 20 dollars? Did you imagine a gallon of gas costing 5 dollars? Greed, inflation, who knows what to call it, but we are pricing ourselves out of the picture of affording it ourselves. And humanity has done this with Salvation, another thing we have gotten our hands on.  Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: Universal Health Care akin to Universal Reconciliation.
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2008, 01:19:57 AM »


It seems almost " Beastly" to have to overpay for simple needs. A mark of the beast can certainly be placing a cost on the things that need to be free. But the mark can be masked by the occassional acceptance of paying the cost, being built into an acceptable way of life. And this is what has slowly happened to Health Care. You slowly build a society where it becomes acceptable to charge for the basic needs of the people, and it just becomes an acceptable way of life. We can accept being responsible to work and then to pay our way through life, but what then happens when it becomes unaffordable to even live? One would think that such a thing could never happen, but yet its happening right before our very eyes. Look at the Health care system. Its getting to the point that the only reasonable solution is to return what once was free, health care, back to the freedom it once was, because the need is outweighing everythingelse. And the exact same thing is going to happen to Salvation. Salvation used to be free, religion got its hands on it, now its not really free. But the demand is going to outweigh the cost, and the suffering will demand that what was once free, be now free again.

And I want to go into the mirror of Health Care, and take a Look at the suffering of Salvation at the hands of inflation and greed.  Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: Universal Health Care akin to Universal Reconciliation.
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2008, 03:08:01 AM »


One thing I have noticed about Health care is that it used to be " Non - Discriminatory", or which is to say that pre-existing conditions didnot mean that much. It used to didnot matter what was wrong with you before, but now it can determine if you get the coverage that you now need. It used to didnot matter how much money you have, now its mainly about who is going to pay, if you cannot pay. One solution has been " Alternative Medicine", or more " Affordable Treatment". The analogy of this to the Gospel of the Truth are unavoidable. So a more " Affordable Gospel" has emerged from religous tradition and has been used to treat suffering humanity.

Yet to break this all down into a more closer look is of intrest. It is a look into the " Healing of Humanity", and how even our physical healing is being grossly mishandled by mankind, just as our Spiritual Healing is suffering from this same mentality.  Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: Universal Health Care akin to Universal Reconciliation.
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2008, 06:07:17 PM »


When demand and consumption outgrows avialibility we are going to have problems. In health care, gas consumption, federal loans the list is endless the solution has been the same, drive up the cost to eliminate the problems. Drive up the cost of homes, drive up the cost of education, and then explore why the problems continue to grow. Has humanity done this to Salvation? You ever notice how the " Cost of Salvation" has continued to grow. The penalty of Sin has continued to grow. Mixed signals has been pumped into humanity concerning Salvation that has tampered with the mentality of Man concerning his Creator.

The cost of growing product will tamper with demand, and as things get scarce, desperation rears its ugly head. As in health care, people can be dying as a result of this struggle, so humanity seeks imediate relief. Salvation is not imediate relief, it is long term relief. If you approach Salvation as if it is imediate relief, then your view of Scripture is not comprehensive, things are not going to add up in your figure.

In the 3rd chapter of Zechariah, read the whole short chapter, a very comprehensive Health plan, a very powerful ability of God is revealed. Joshua, the high Priest, was there with Angels of the Lord. And satan was " Standing there next to an Angel of the Lord". Interesting that these are obvious beings " Standing there and talking", they are not idealilogical concepts. God himself speaks, and says an interesting statement about " Plucking a whole brand of people from the Fire." Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and his garments were changed, which symbolized his sins being taken away. These Angels took off all of Joshuas garments, from head to toe he was totally redressed. In verse 8 God introduces " His servant " The Branch", which in vs. 9 Sprouts and removes the sins of all the people " In One Day." This is really the only solution to our problems. This Branch, this root, in it is the essence of our Spiritual Health. But humanity is trying to encourage our healing by almost any means avialible, but the most effective means is being ignored or mishandled.

The Earth itself can be a picture of Heaven, the physical can mirror the Spiritual. Conversely, the physical way we try to handle our problems, can mirror a Spiritual misconception within itself. And I want to touch on that. Peace.
 

Mickiel

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Re: Universal Health Care akin to Universal Reconciliation.
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2008, 04:55:29 PM »


The act of trying to heal yourself is interesting and we can do this to a certain extent. With all the avialible medicines at our disposal, we can do a lot of self healing. We have thousands of Physicans who can " Heal Us", and the Physicans can heal themselves. Physican " Heal Thyself", has an interesting connotation to it which has spread into humanitys disbelief in God. Why believe in a God who can heal, when we can heal ourselves? As humanity grows onward into its future, the thought of God is becomming illrelevant and meaningless, as humanity becomes a god unto itself.

As the devil relates to Adam and Eve;" You shallnot really die", he was beginning a " Belief to believe more in yourself than your creator." More than being " Like God", he was establishing a foundation for humanity to be a god itself, as he views himself as god. A very attractive concept which has meaning;" Take care of yourself", create yourself, heal yourself, save yourself. Universal Health care then takes on a frightening meaning which mirrors this invasion of satan to replace the healing of God with the healing of men. This effort to turn men away from dependance on God to dependance on themselves has inched into even the perception of Universal Salvation.

In satans mind, the truth of Universal Salvation must be dealt with, and dealt with a very powerful blow to its reality. This message must be destroyed and he must market the destruction in a way that actually enlist the efforts of humanity itself. This is really what satan was doing to Adam and Eve, and their comming generations, he was enlisting their help in his destructive plans for humanity. He was trying to " Lead Adam and Eve", saying , in a sense, " Let me help you", let me show you the truth, let me give you the will and the way. He was NOT trying to destroy their confidence, but to actually build it into another direction. He was implanting the seeds of a different kind of living, or health care, but first he wanted to take advantage of their physical nakedness. He wanted them to " Put on clothes", which reveals an intent that satan has , if I may say; " Addressed ever since". He applied a dressing to humanitys wound which he has masked ever since. And the health of humanity mirrors a lot about this wound and dressing.

Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: Universal Health Care akin to Universal Reconciliation.
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2008, 06:36:53 PM »


If you look at satans interrigation of Adam and Eve in Genesis 3: 1-5, it was short and intense , yet meaningful and enduring. Perhaps lasting anywhere from 10 to 20 seconds, in five simple verses, the Spiritual Health of the entire comming generations of humanity was affected. I mean just look at it; satan asked Eve a question , which she then answered correctly and truthfully. Then satan responded to her answer with two very short observations, and it was over. satans observations were very true, in my view, I mean he didnot lie to her. I think Eve was truthful, and satan was truthful, so there was some truth being discussed here. So where did the deception come into play?

satan says to Eve, "Indeed, has God said you shallnot eat from any tree of the garden?" A question inquirying a response from her. Eve responds exactly what God told her, what trees they may and maynot eat from or even" touch", or they would die. Here is where the deception comes into play. satan tells her that she wouldnot really die, but instead receive the power to understand both good and evil, like God himself understands.

I have looked at this time and time again, examining it. At first I thought satan told her the Truth, she really didnot die, they in fact lived a lot longer than any of us have. And their eyes were opened, so that was not deception either. But the real deception, as I understand it to be, is the " Perception of Comparrision", that is what really got things messed up. Truth was being discussed here, by both Eve and satan, but satan said that they " Would be like God", knowing good and evil. He was implying that she would be able to " Perceive good and evil " Like God does." Or understand it on the level that God does, and thats a lie! Its just using the truth to impart a perception that is not fully comparable to God, but " Seems like it could be." And this is what satan has done to the gospel of Universal Salvation, because he must use the Truth, in order to distort the Truth.

satan has set out to turn the gospel of Universal Salvation into something that " Could be True", but is not really comparable to scripture. He was not trying to push a lie at Eve on the surface, but to " Dostort the Truth enough to mislead her thoughts." He wanted Eve to receive a relevation, but his intent was to distort the Revelation, NOT block it. Allow the truth to be there, but to use it in a very serious effort to build her confidence in all the things that the Knowledge was " Good for". Vs.6;" When the woman saw the tree was good for food, a delight to the eyes, and can make her wise."

Now, why would God NOT want her to see something good, or have good food to eat and to be wise. This is a very reasonable thing for Eve to consider, I mean, " Why Not?" You shallnot really die. God wants you to have this, these things are really good.

And a false gospel message was formed here, using very incredible techniques of deception, which are underlying with so much truth, that its mixture has been masked throughout the ages. And the Spiritual Health of humanity is what is at stake.

Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: Universal Health Care akin to Universal Reconciliation.
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2008, 07:17:29 PM »


If you look at Health Care its a wonderful thing to have healing, because its needed. Everybody gets sick, so everyone needs the care at various times in our Lives. But why do we get Sick in the first place? And why is health care not a Universal Thing, and why must we pay for it? Why must there be a Price for the sickness of Humanity? And why has our healers not been able to heal everyone? The answer is in Eden, its always back to those events in that Garden.

In Jeremiah 8:22;" Is there no Balm in Gilead? Is there no Physician there? Why then has not the Health of the daughter of my people been restored?" In this question lays the evidence of a failed gospel that has been pushed on humanity through serious deceptions. The gospel message must be one that Heals Everyone, and the Price paied must be a Universal Coverage which affords all of humanity. And this Gospel we believe is just that. We know a Physician who has this Power, we believe a message that will Heal everyone, and we are NOT off track according to the Scriptures which hold Revelations to Life more Abundantly.

But our belief has suffered an attack on this Truth. Truth used to mask Truth. Truth used against itself. " You shallnot really Die", this message shall not really die, your really going to be like God, and I will lead you to put clothes on this message because the message is naked and needs some superfical " Doctoring done to it." To make it look better and attract more people to it. And this Doctoring was done in Eden in less than 30 seconds.  Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: Universal Health Care akin to Universal Reconciliation.
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2008, 06:12:10 PM »

Between 23-33% of people are now sharing their medicine with each other. Considered dangerous by some to do that, but this sharing is a unified way for consumers to share their relief with others, just trying to survive. Often when faced with a crisis humans will begin to share, to help each other. The future of the True Gospel of Reconciliation will go through this dynamic with people. As world crisis continues to grow, humanity will begin to share their gospels with each other to help find relief. It is then that these Gospels will show their true power. One by one they will fail humanity until humanity will finally see that Universal Gospel is the only answer that can cure all of us.

And it won't be too late.  Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: Universal Health Care akin to Universal Reconciliation.
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2008, 03:35:54 AM »


Every fruit of the Spirit has one thing in common, they are benefical to everyone, including the self. They are singular ways of being that have Universal quality. They are a Universal language. They are the Language of God and Heaven, it is Gods way of communication. When God communicates with humans, its through his Fruit of the Spirit. They are the Language of God. And I want to get into that. Peace.

martincisneros

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Re: Universal Health Care akin to Universal Reconciliation.
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2008, 04:45:52 AM »
This is an amazing analogy that you've drawn together between universal need and universal provision, it's implications on the deficiencies of the religious systems of our day, and the rising cost of inflation that seems to ever keep provision out of people's hands which could be analogous to the growing philosophies of men who are ever learning and never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.  Every attempt to meet man's need with methods short of the Gospel of Grace only depletes mankind universally.  It multiplies skepticism and despair.  And yet religion attempts to explain away our need for Jesus Christ to be the Saviour of the world, or how Jesus Christ is the Saviour of the world without ever, in fact, really saving the entire world -- all the while devising other coping methods and pseudo-provisions from the fallen intellect of mankind that's ever learning and never able to come to an acknowledgement of the Truth.  The costs of living rise decade by decade and the burden imposed upon us by taxation is analogous to the burdens that our religious institutions are to the human condition while they're denying the evangel of the glory of the happy God, as 1Timothy 1 calls it in the Concordant Literal New Testament.

As Abraham Lincoln, the great Christian Universalist of the 19th century, and a former U.S. President said, "Jesus Christ is either Lord and Saviour of all, or He's not Lord and Saviour at all."

Mickiel

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Re: Universal Health Care akin to Universal Reconciliation.
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2008, 10:55:18 AM »
This is an amazing analogy that you've drawn together between universal need and universal provision, it's implications on the deficiencies of the religious systems of our day, and the rising cost of inflation that seems to ever keep provision out of people's hands which could be analogous to the growing philosophies of men who are ever learning and never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.  Every attempt to meet man's need with methods short of the Gospel of Grace only depletes mankind universally.  It multiplies skepticism and despair.  And yet religion attempts to explain away our need for Jesus Christ to be the Saviour of the world, or how Jesus Christ is the Saviour of the world without ever, in fact, really saving the entire world -- all the while devising other coping methods and pseudo-provisions from the fallen intellect of mankind that's ever learning and never able to come to an acknowledgement of the Truth.  The costs of living rise decade by decade and the burden imposed upon us by taxation is analogous to the burdens that our religious institutions are to the human condition while they're denying the evangel of the glory of the happy God, as 1Timothy 1 calls it in the Concordant Literal New Testament.

As Abraham Lincoln, the great Christian Universalist of the 19th century, and a former U.S. President said, "Jesus Christ is either Lord and Saviour of all, or He's not Lord and Saviour at all."


Well yes, the subject is quite open to many Analogys, including those you have opened up. Mans efforts do deplete him Spiritually because they are not the right kind of coverage to meet his true Spiritual need of Total Redemption. Its akin to a family having 10 children, but their health coverage only affords them to cover 5 of them, and only those 5 if certain conditions are met. The family is then weighted down by even just the " Fear of sickness", afraid to even anticipate what impending doom would occur to those not covered. It is no different Spiritually, so many false interpitations of the Gospel only cover a certain portion of humanity, and the rest must live in fear of what will happen. There is a better coverage for humanity avialible, but it is largely ignored and unbelieved.

The secret of Universal coverage is " Every man for the Other", every person covered gives the coverage to everyonelse. Jesus in Mark 9:35;" If anyone wants to be first, he shall be last of ALL, and servant of ALL." When each person, individual, reachs this level, they go back and put everyonelse in front of them. This produces a " Servitude Society" and everyone will simply be covered. Jesus wanted to be the first man who ushered in this way, so he himself must be last and place everyone in front of him, to serve them Salvation. Then he being the last, his cycle is now complette, he is the first and the last, and hands over all things to his Father, a complette cycle of coverage for all of humanity.

We then sacrifice ourselves, and in Mark 8:35, we loose our place in line by giving the Gospel of truth to a world that rejects it, we loose our lives by rejecting any gospel that does not cover all of humanity, we are condemned by the Spiritual Health plans of this world, we loose our lives for Jesus sake AND the Gospels sake, and we then really save our lives, because with this Gospel of Universal Reconciliation the profit is we gain the whole world. So we cannot be ashamed of this plan.  Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: Universal Health Care akin to Universal Reconciliation.
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2008, 06:57:07 PM »

Insurance is just something we need in case what we already have is not enough. When disaster strikes it could take everything that we have, as in the case of hurricane Katrina. And even the insurance we have just may not be enough to cover all of the new needs such unexpected things may bring. You could get sick and stay sick for the next 40 years,will your coverage last that long and at what level will it be in covering your needs? Some people are fortunate and get good health care , while others never seem to need it that much. And this is what the Gospels of the world have morphed into, the selective fortunate few whom it applys too, and the sick in need of a physican, who's sickness ill affords them complette coverage.

So government steps in and does what it can, yet still lacking the drama of complette health care for all peoples of the earth. Some view the Gospel of God like this; a government Gospel, with God only doing what he can, yet just not able to help everybody. This is why the plan of Salvation needs to be explained everywhere it can possibily be. So that men may know that God plans on covering them complettely. It is not enough to tell people who are presently suffering that they are now complettely covered from what Christ did in the past, you have to get into their suffering with them, and bring meaning to the present, without trying to expect them to get relief from understanding the past. And I want to go into how to do that.  Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: Universal Health Care akin to Universal Reconciliation.
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2008, 07:50:46 PM »


I used to work with a woman at a hospital for 3 years, until I left to start a counseling job. I still live down the street from the hospital, and vist freinds there on occasion. A few months ago I visted and was told she was in a room there dying of Cancer. The last I saw her she was robust and full of life, when I got to her room, she was frail and withered, death was lurking in her, and she knew it. And I knew it, I mean you could see she was nothing like herself. Just drained and life was passing out of her every breath. What do you say to someone who is in this experience? My mother works for Hospice, and she sits with dying patients everyday, prays with and comforts them, at that moment I longed for her experience. I was speechless, praying to god in my mind to give me words to say.

Here I had within me the Gospel of Universal Salvation, the words of Life, and I was speechless. I counsel people everyday, if anything I talk too much at times, yet there I stood, just no words at all would come to my lips. She spoke more than I did. I managed to just ask how she was sleeping and eating, she said not too well. She did not even smoke, but she somehow got cancer. She used to try to set me up with dates, because she said I was too flirtatous and needed a wife. She looked at me and said I let the last one she sent get away, and now she could not help me anymore. Then she stared at me and said, " Mike, this came out of nowhere", and hit my life like a storm. I longed to have the power to just touch her and heal her right then, even was tempted to try it, but I have never tried that before, but I sure wished that I could. We talked a little while and I left drained myself.

I believe in a God who can heal, and I just don't know how and when he does it. I felt so insignificant and helpless, a little speck in an ocean of pain and misery. I had walked into a time of pain and suffering, with little to offer a friend who lay dying, just a smile and a vist. I told my mom how I felt and asked her what does she do during those times. And I want to get into that, and how it pictures what we can do with the glory of the gospel, while this world is dying around us.  Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: Universal Health Care akin to Universal Reconciliation.
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2008, 10:11:07 AM »


In John 11:3-4 Jesus was told that someone he loved was sick, when he heard that he said;" This sickness is not unto death, but for the Glory of God, that the Son of God may be Glorified by it." Jesus would get Glory himself and receive Glory for Healing Lazarus after rasing him from the dead, and God would also be Glorified. The both of them were Glorified by this sickness and death senerio, of this " One Man Lazarus." Now if you multiply that one death, by every single sickness and death of all of combined humanity, can you see and imagine the Glory Jesus and God will then have? What is the difference between the healing of this one man, and the healing of every single human, well there is no difference with God. Lazarus was a brother of Mary, as we all are brothers of someone Christ knew. All of humanity is Spiritually sick, and when God ressurects them and heals them, the Glory will be Great! Humanitys sickness is not unto a perminent death, but for the Glory of God.

Many , many humans are Spiritually Sick, but not really from a fault of their own. They and we were born into it. In John 9:1-3, Jesus heals a man born blind. The disciples asked him why was the man born blind, was it because of Sin, or because of his parents sin? Jesus said it was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents, but it was in order that the works of God might be displayed in him. This is a health care principle, and to God it is Universal. Humanity was born Spiritually Blind through no fault of its own, but in order that the works of God might be manifested. Sin infested so that God will Manifest his Glory. And this is a Universal Principle with God, every one is sick, so everyone will be healed. All have sinned, all have been crippled, all have been infected. The infection is Universal, so why wouldnot the Healing be Universal? God is Universal, the need is Universal, the problem in humanity is Universal, why wouldnot the solution be just as Universal? The True Gospel is then Universal, Universalism is a sign of the Health Plan of God. Don't forget that. Believe this with all your heart. If you believe it, you will begin to see the Glory of it. In John 11:40 Jesus said that " Belief will lead to seeing the Glory of God." When you begin to see Glory in sickness and Death, your mind is already on another level. 

God has a Health Plan, yet it is quite different than mans plans. So very, very different, it can throw the understanding off. Salvation is Gods Universal Health Plan, and the Earth itself is sort of our " Hospital", in a very weird sense. And I want to get into the Earth some.  Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: Universal Health Care akin to Universal Reconciliation.
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2008, 09:16:44 PM »


In 1 Corinth. 10:26, the Earth is the Lords. In Romans 8:20-22, the creation, including the earth itself, was subjected to futility and it groans or suffers from that subjection. Incredible as it may seem, this is part of Gods Health Plan, or the plan of Salvation. This is highly unorthodox and unusual. But we have to try to get into Gods Mind, which is difficult, in order to understand what he is doing, or has done. God is receiving personal Glory from what he has done, this subjection of futility. Which seems rather harsh on the surface, so we have to digdeeper into his Mind, because in the mind of God, his true Heart is revealed.

God wants humanity to ultimately view him as the " Spirit that Interceeds", and this is how he has set things up. He created the earth and started it to rotate on an axis, you know, kind of get things moving in an unstoppable direction. He creates humanity from this Earth, to ultimately be his own generate. And this is very important, I mean God is not going to die or anything like that, but humanity is now his own offspring, we inherit all things that belong to him. So not only is the Earth the Lords, its ours too. We are subjected to this futility, as well as our inheritence, the Earth. Because God has done this subjection,he knows he then MUST save everyone. Its not that God has locked himself into a thing that he does not want to do, its that he has PURPOSED to do these things, and PREDESTINED the outcome. When Paul said when I am weak, then I am strong, he said that because of a preordained Health Principle that God has established within him. And this is within us, and within the Earth. And God gets Glory from this.

And I want to go into Gods Mind, just what he thinks about this, why he thinks like this in the first place, and try to understand how he can get Joy from this subjection, and how we can get Joy from it also. Because its only two ways of viewing this plan, and we cannot get caught up into the view that the futility can show, that can disorientate your perception of the futility.  Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: Universal Health Care akin to Universal Reconciliation.
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2008, 03:16:22 AM »


In Rev.21:1; " I saw a New Heaven and a New Earth, the first Heaven and Earth had passed away, and there is no longer any Sea." The future of humanity is to be born again, but that is also the future of the Earth, it too will be born again. And listen, our earth now is alive, its not dead. It is not human or animal, but it is alive. Its just a different kind of Life. In the Kingdom of God the Earth will be alive and living, and it will live forever. But the Earth will be Holy, it will be Holy Ground. God himself will walk on the Earth, that is what will make it Holy. But there is a connection not noticed by many.

In Luke 21:33, again Jesus;" Heaven and Earth will Pass away, but my words willnot pass away." At first human sight, we tend to think that " Passing away", or destruction that is caused by God means the end of something. And the passing away may be preordained and spoke of in scripture, as is the destruction of things are spoken of. And that seems futile, but from this futility, this passing away and destruction, God will recreate the " Very same thing that has been destroyed", only to make it new and perfect. And this is the future of sinful humanity. This is the kind of stuff that is in Gods Mind. This stuff comes from Gods thinking. Its a definte pattern, the old will pass away and the new will take its place in eternity with God. Its the same thing that is passing away, only being born again into eternity. Its Gods way of " Shifting Gears", or you could say " Promoting things", or you could say " Transfiguration" or change.

I think its interesting that God himself never changes, yet he seems to like to change his creations. Hes certainly sending all of humanity through changes, as he sent his only Son Jesus through some very serious changes. And I think God has sent humanity through some definte evolutionary changes from the time he created humanity, until he was satisfied with bringing Adam into existence at a level he was ready to give the first human a consciousness. I know some differ on this and believe Adam to be the first human created, but I just cannot any longer see that as the truth, there has been too many human remains found that were pre-adamic for me to stay along the line of belief I first had. Even the Earth is much older than I had first believed. Adam was the first man created with Consciousness, with the working brain that we all have now.

But the fact that the Earth is much older than I was taught by churchs, brings my curosity into other areas of consideration as to what was on Gods mind, what he was doing with the Earth for so long, and why I first thought that the bible didnot speak of it. Oh, but it does, and I want to go into that and how it relates to Universal Salvation.  Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: Universal Health Care akin to Universal Reconciliation.
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2008, 08:26:00 PM »


Now Universalism is in the bible in obvious scriptures, and then not so obvious. Universalism can be seen in the Health care of Humanity, the poor condition of humanity, and also the poor condition of the Earth. Gods health plan for both the Earth and humanity was first sown, or established in dishonor, created to perish, sown in a natural physical world , intended to be weak and in pain. All this is revealed in 1 Corinthians 15:42-44, and this is also Gods plan of Salvation, or his Health Plan. The future of humanity and the earth is to be Spiritual, but this is not the first stage of creation, the first is the natural, from the earth we were created, or " Earthy", Adam was the " First man created with human consciousness", the second man ,Jesus , already had consciousness , he was established in Heaven.

Now we humans have bourne the " Image of the Earth", which is weakness, perishable, and these things are just " Natural" for us to experience. In other words, we are supposed to be like this, we have no choice in this, its just natural, or intended to be. We are not like this because we have " Chosen to be", its how we are supposed to be. Paul in Romans 7:16-17;" But if I do the very thing I do not wish to do, I agree with the law, confessing that it is good. So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me." If we do things we hate doing, isn't that a sign that we are sick? That is a health issue, first we are sick, and then made well. For God has shut up all into this sickness, or the first stage of the plan, in order that he will establish that same all into the second phase of the plan, which was established by the second man Jesus.

So these are two distinct natures, or two parts of the same Health Plan, which is a universal health plan. These are universal principles, that we are sick and in need of a physician. And I want to touch on that some.  Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: Universal Health Care akin to Universal Reconciliation.
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2008, 08:48:32 PM »


A very natural reaction to the inceasing of knowledge , is the tendency to increase the blame. Many christians experience this in moving toward more belief, they natrually want to take on more responsibility, which I think is a natural thing to absorb. And as they become more Spiritual, they go back and forth, taking more blame, or moving away from blame, taking more knowledge and reacting more to it. Giving all to Jesus, or becomming more discusted with themselves for seeing this sin that knowledge has increased awareness of. With varying degrees inbetween their experience. This can be a troublesome experience, some believers could actually become more misrable as they " Progress more." Thinking to themselves;" Well whats wrong with me", I believe, I am more committed, where is the Joy that should come from my committments? Where is the healing?

Its like being born in water and comming out of the river, wondering why you are still wet. Being born of the earth and wondering why you are still earthy. Well you have not left the earth, the water is inside of you, how are you going to rid yourself of the earth and the water? And there is also Spirit inside of you, all these things bear witness of what you are. All these things agree with each other, so humanitys only healing can come from a missing ingredient that is different from these three. And this is the true healing that humanity really needs, the Spirit healing from God, only it can bring about a true difference that last eternal, only its witness can convert over to Gods Righteous Health plan. And I want to look at that, because the things that are real to us, this earth, this weakness, this blood that runs through our veins, the spirit in our minds, all carrys with it eternal ramifications.  These ramifications carry us into the entrance to Gods own mind.  Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: Universal Health Care akin to Universal Reconciliation.
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2008, 06:50:53 PM »


Lets imagine that someone just literally gave you a big wonderful house, gave you plenty of land and out of nowhere, this is yours to do with as you wish. How would you respond to this? Well this is what God did to humanity. The Earth is a great gift from God to humanity, a great momument to a great giving God. We walk on this great gift everyday, live on it. We feed from it and breathe its life giving air, and we do this everyday. The Earth has been a continual Monument of God throughout all of our generations.

But yet, its like the great gift giver who gave the gift, dissapeared after he gave it. Some one gives you a house, then you never see them again, it becomes easier to forget them, or they become a passing thought. Some could never forget such a gift, as their children are born into the gift, they pass down the story of how the gift was given. After many generations of the gift sharing, the gift is taken for granted, while the old people still try to honor the giver. Then the house is threatened with fire, the fire wants to consume the inheritence, the great gift giver sends his only Son to install a great insurance plan to cover the gift. Although the threat remains,the policy of coverage is in tact. But the Son leaves the house, as his Father did, so soon the ungrateful and forgetful tendencys of the occupants returns to the house. The Health Plan is soon misunderstood, unbelieved, or just forgotten. Now only myths of the great giver remain, but someone finds a book that the giver had assembled and in it are many tales to astounish. It tells the story of the great giver and his great plan.

This is what has happened to humanity. Its no weird thing that people do not believe in God, theres nothing wrong with them for not believing. When people look at the horror and sickness in humanity, and ask why God has not done anything about it, whats wrong with that question? Absolutely nothing is wrong with wondering or asking why. Theres nothing wrong with using that for not believing in God. There is nothing wrong with not believing the bible, there is no fault with not having blind faith in a God you cannot see. If God himself is not counting these things as an indictment against humanity, how then can a believer in God blame humanity as if they are wrong? Is it wrong to be born blind? Is it wrong to be born sick? Is it wrong to be born Spiritually deficent? Is it wrong to be in need of a health care plan? Is it the parents fault that the person is blind? Jesus said NO!

That No, is a universal health care principle, which ALWAYS reveals a Universal NEED! Which ALWAYS demands a Universal remedy, which always demands a Universal MIND to provide, a universal power to cover this demand.

Just as creation demands a creator, the sickness of the creation demands that creator to be a healer. And whatever has been allowed to walk this Earth, to enter this great house, that falls to the creator also, the one who brought these things into being in the first place.

If we can turn the conversation, the story, back away from the earth, the house, the sickness, all of which we are tied to, and redirect it to God, put the focus back on him, the scales of understanding are then tipped in the right direction. The right direction that cancels out the wrong. If we can learn to read the plan, understand the gift we are living on, although God and Jesus are gone, the plan can be seen. They are there, we can't see them, but yet we can learn to see them in other ways. We can understand and tell the correct story. And I want to go into that some.  Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: Universal Health Care akin to Universal Reconciliation.
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2008, 09:23:42 PM »


The whole concept of Universal Salvation, the entire future of every created thing, is expressed in Rev. 5:13;" And EVERY created thing which is IN Heaven AND on the Earth and under the Earth and on the Sea, AND ALL THINGS in them, I heard saying; " To him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever." And chapter 6 reveals what these all must go through first.

There is so much in this verse concerning Universalism. The Adoration of the Father God and Christ, will eventually be Universal. Their rule will be Universal. Every being created will be then ALIVE, that is Universal. And notice, every created being will be verbally prasing God. How are they going to do that without conscious thought? The implication here then is that every created being will then have consciousness and the ability to verbally express, which in itself is mind boggling. Can you imagine a Fish prasing God? Things under the Earth, or dead things, all brought to life, and a totally new form and way of Life.

This is Universalism all through and through.

Peace.

Mickiel

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Re: Universal Health Care akin to Universal Reconciliation.
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2008, 01:04:14 AM »


Look at Genesis 1:1-5. God created the Earth an empty formless mass cloaked in darkness. Notice closely how God, a great being of Light, uses Darkness in his creation of the Earth, and thats one reason why he will destroy it, because part of its ingredients is the darkness. This is why we must die, the Earth must die, because of the ingredient of the Darkness. Its just a temporary thing that God is mixing and imposing upon us. And it concerns the eternal healthy view that God wants us to have toward him.

You know, the other day the thought occured to me that God has already created perhaps billions of creations that have been with him for untold spaces of time. And I am not trying to say that they have not pleased God, or that God is dissapointed with them. But listen, God has observed all his creations for a long time, there is something that God saw in those already created, that may well have prompted the creation of humanity. Something that God didnot add in their creation, that If added, will get the results God is after. Something. And I think Evil, sin and death are part of that something, living in the flesh first is part of it, and then Jesus becomming flesh and dying is part of it, all these are Spiritual Health issues which are a DEFINTE change of creation economics in Gods stance toward the future of his creative generate. They will produce a stance that we will take and understand in our eternity, that the Angels perhaps have not taken.

In all prior creations of God he gets nothing but absolute obedience, but he wanted something different in humanity, and we certainly have gave it to him. A ton of disobedience. A child wrapped in sin and conceived in weakness. An eternal being conceived from temporal capacity, an everlasting life conceived in a temporary disposable body. A mind first empty and devoid of him, like their mother earth first was. A life span cloaked in Darkness. A child born sick and nursed by its eternal parent.  Peace.