Author Topic: Trans-Temporal Redemption a New Approach to Biblical Universalism  (Read 13216 times)

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pneuma

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Re: Trans-Temporal Redemption a New Approach to Biblical Universalism
« Reply #100 on: August 18, 2008, 03:13:39 AM »
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Pneuma, Paul,

Thank you for your feedback and for trying to follow what I am saying. Before discussing the paradox of free will and predestination, please note I am not in any way: a) devaluing the Bible, nor b) saying that we can not trust the Bible, nor c) saying that the Bible can change via the flow of mundane time.

Hi TB
Again you say you are not devaluing the Bible, but the belief in multiple time line does just that. The scriptures tell us not to add or take away, but if one time line CHANGES the events in another time line the scriptures must also of necessity CHANGE to. For the events in one time line negate the other. Christ came and died in this time line, by implication in another time line Christ never came and died. Thus you have not only done away with the Bible you have also done away with the true WORD of God, Jesus Christ.




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In this regard, the physical manifestation of the Bible in alternate timelines (and/or on alien planets) is not particularly relevant to the discussion at hand. I bring it up solely to emphasize what I feel God could do if God wanted to without any conflict whatsoever with the principle of God not changing, for it would be a projection (or viewpoint) of God that is changing not God.


Not so for the scriptures state God is Love, so in another time line the scriptures could say God is not love.. Thus not only does your theory change the scriptures it changes God Himself.

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Nor is there any reason to be concerned if our movement sideways in time resulted in a change to the Bible


Hardly TB, it is of UTMOST concern, if the scriptures are to change, so to Jesus Christ and our Father. Willie already brought this up, but if Adam did not eat in one timeline and it changes our time line Christ never came and no one would get to the Father.


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for the simple reason that a change of this sort happens without any knowledge on our part whatsoever because our memories and printed records have changed too, in which case we rightfully trust the changed Bible without even being aware of the change. And as the Church matures in the higher dimension of time, I see no reason why God could not shift the message accordingly, much as the students of a school get a slightly different message at each grade level.

Well I agree with Paul when he said

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But in regaurds to your analogy in relationship to a message shift, from kindergarten to high school 2+2=4, there is more, but I do not believe there is "different". The LAW of Gravity remains undisputed, but we have found that there is more, the theoretical "more" has not invalidated the LAW.

Sorry TB but any gospel that does away with our need for Christ, which a multiple time line does, ain't no gospel at all.

Like I said it sounds like the gospel according to Rodenberry and I can't believe some here actually entertain such a notion.


pneuma

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Re: Trans-Temporal Redemption a New Approach to Biblical Universalism
« Reply #101 on: August 18, 2008, 03:37:19 AM »
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Pneuma and Paul,

TB answered some of those questions already when I said the reservation I hold, and why I do not completely believe in TTR, is the importance of Jesus Christ.


Hi Craig. I don't believe TB has answered my questions bro, when my questions relate to multiple time lines, all he does is address the mundane time line part of it as though he made an answer to what I and others have asked concerning multiple time lines.

It might be that you have not noticed this discrepancy bro, but reread some of the question to the answers we are given, they all seem to address only the mundane and not the multiple applications we have brought up.

Craig you are one of the ones here who has a understanding in these things, yet you hold reservations to TTR because of the Jesus factor, and I might say you do well to do so because another time line totally negates Christ.

So instead of defending TB's belief should you not rather be defending what you believe concerning Christ? Brother I do not say this to inflame you, but if you sit on your hand as it were, when you have a knowledge of these things is to allow a falsehood to perpetuate itself that just might convince others that TTR is true.

Paul said not to accept ANOTHER gospel then the one that they first received, and bro this is ANOTHER gospel, for it allows for ANOTHER set of scriptures and negates the need for Christ.   

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At the same time, I can see what you are saying, and I see the misunderstanding of what TB says and what you are thinking he is saying. So I believe you are going to need to slow down because you are already refuting something that TB has already said he doesn't believe. This discussion is going to require a lot of patience on both sides.

Craig TB might state that he does not believe such and such, but the belief in multiple time lines actual then goes against what he says he believes.

TB can say he does not believe multiple time lines negates the Bible, but the fact that he believe in multiple time line where the Bible actually changes still negates the Bible we have in front of us.

I am not a learn man in these things Craig but even I can see this.

Offline willieH

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Re: Trans-Temporal Redemption a New Approach to Biblical Universalism
« Reply #102 on: August 18, 2008, 03:58:59 AM »
willieH: Hi Craig...  :icon_king:

You are still thinking linearly WillieH. All the 'objections' you have, are true objections found in TB's TTR theology. The problem is the continuation of applying a linear timeline to a God that transcends all time and creation.

Linearly -- schminearly...  :laughing7:  I am dealing with REALITY... the proposal of TB is NOT reality... it is a coulda-woulda-shoulda- things that denies TRUTH, denies SCRIPTURE, and denies CHRIST... eventually arriving at ALL LIVE in ADAM... :rolleye:

GOD is in full view of TIME at ALL TIMES... that is the eternal perspective... and is WHY Jesus was able to say as He stood before men as a MAN Himself, ..."NO MAN hath ascended up into Heaven but HE that came down from Heaven, even the Son of Man which ...IS... in Heaven"...

Thereby maintaining His position on Earth and in Heaven, simulataneously... as a SPIRIT being, and as a FLESHLY being...

This is no COMPLICATED "game" that scientists have figured out with Quantum physics Craig... and is PRIVY to them within their self-glorified INTELLECT!

This is a "meat & potatoes" thing bro... something that ALL can grasp, not some imaginination-filled, scientifically contrived, complicated ILLUSION!

The above is not much of an answer to my questions bro... linear or not... If one "timeline" states something to be truth and another OPPOSES it... then TRUTH is come into question... which is EXACTLY what happened in the Garden... with the extensive knowledge you have, it really surprises me that you do not recognize it, as it has reared its head...

The fact IS, ...we ARE (not hypothetically) IN this "timeline"... we must deal with IT... any other "timeline" is only hypothetical imagination... and is IRRELEVANT to us... even if it were to (which it does not), ...exist...  :dontknow:

peacE...
...willieH  :dsunny:

Offline willieH

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Re: Trans-Temporal Redemption a New Approach to Biblical Universalism
« Reply #103 on: August 18, 2008, 04:01:58 AM »
willieH: Hi Scott... :hithere:

Craig you are one of the ones here who has a understanding in these things, yet you hold reservations to TTR because of the Jesus factor, and I might say you do well to do so because another time line totally negates Christ.

This is EXACTLY what I have stated several times!  :thumbsup:

peacE...
...willieH  :dsunny:

Offline Molly

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Re: Trans-Temporal Redemption a New Approach to Biblical Universalism
« Reply #104 on: August 18, 2008, 04:32:24 AM »
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The fact IS, ...we ARE (not hypothetically) IN this "timeline"... we must deal with IT... any other "timeline" is only hypothetical imagination... and is IRRELEVANT to us... even if it were to (which it does not), ...exist... 

Not me.  I'm going to learn how to move sideways. :cloud9:

Haven't you ever wondered what the glorious freedom of the sons of God was?


Offline willieH

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Re: Trans-Temporal Redemption a New Approach to Biblical Universalism
« Reply #105 on: August 18, 2008, 05:06:26 AM »
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The fact IS, ...we ARE (not hypothetically) IN this "timeline"... we must deal with IT... any other "timeline" is only hypothetical imagination... and is IRRELEVANT to us... even if it were to (which it does not), ...exist... 

Not me.  I'm going to learn how to move sideways. :cloud9:

Haven't you ever wondered what the glorious freedom of the sons of God was?



Yeah... you are a little "sideways" there, sister M...  :laughing7:

The Glorious Freedom of the Sons of God is STILL IN CHRIST, and STILL experienced in THIS LIFE... and is not some far-fetched, and imagined "stargate episode"...  :laughing7:

FREEDOM is created by the TRUTH (John 8:32-36)

peacE...
...willieH  :dsunny:

joyful1

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Re: Trans-Temporal Redemption a New Approach to Biblical Universalism
« Reply #106 on: August 18, 2008, 06:02:58 AM »
Paul--
You said about your atheist friend:
"The point he was making is that a belief in God is fine as long as you do not start saying that science can be used to validate Gods existance."
And of course this verse came to mind:
1 Timothy 6:20
O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

The gist being that "false science" will oppose the Bible, as it has many times. But true science does not. This is why Daniel and his two friends were chosen to serve in the palace. They wanted young men who were:
Daniel 1:4
Children in whom was no blemish, but well favoured, and skilful in all wisdom, and cunning in knowledge, and understanding science,
Just a side note there--carry on...I'm interested in everyone's views here!
Joyce :)

Offline Molly

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Re: Trans-Temporal Redemption a New Approach to Biblical Universalism
« Reply #107 on: August 18, 2008, 06:46:01 AM »
The Global Consciousness Project at Princeton University

Random generator circuits (random number generators) operating 24/7, running now for 8 years

Looking at the effect of mind on matter.

When the numbers become non random, that has meaning.

About two hours before the first plane hit the wtc, the network took off--it was not behaving randomly.

They claim they are measuring the ocean of consciousness.


They've looked at 204 major world events and the odds against chance are 300,000 to 1.

51 events were unexpected--yet they saw that about two hours before there is a rise in the network, the whole network begins to change.  This is statistically significant.

They looked at every earthquake of 6 or larger.  They only see the 2 hours before rise happen when the earthquakes happen in populated zones.   



Offline studier

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Re: Trans-Temporal Redemption a New Approach to Biblical Universalism
« Reply #108 on: August 18, 2008, 07:03:49 AM »
Craig you are one of the ones here who has a understanding in these things, yet you hold reservations to TTR because of the Jesus factor, and I might say you do well to do so because another time line totally negates Christ.

Pay attention to the discussion, this has already been addressed. You demonstrating you are not either reading what TB has presented, or you are ignoring it, or you don't understand it. Never has another timeline negated Christ, because there is a universal constant of cause, it has been from the very beginning Jesus Christ, because He is God whom through all things have been created. Read the discussion and stop making assumptive conclusions that have already been addressed and answered.


 
willieH: Hi Scott... :hithere:

Craig you are one of the ones here who has a understanding in these things, yet you hold reservations to TTR because of the Jesus factor, and I might say you do well to do so because another time line totally negates Christ.

This is EXACTLY what I have stated several times!  :thumbsup:

peacE...
...willieH  :dsunny:

Like Pneuma, you have proved that you do not read the discussion, this has already been answered.

Quote from: pneuma
Craig TB might state that he does not believe such and such, but the belief in multiple time lines actual then goes against what he says he believes.

TB can say he does not believe multiple time lines negates the Bible, but the fact that he believe in multiple time line where the Bible actually changes still negates the Bible we have in front of us.

I am not a learn man in these things Craig but even I can see this.

And like every other discussion you are involved in, you make these conclusions based on your own understanding of what you just seen or heard, and not on what was actually seen or heard. I expressed concern concerning where Jesus fits in, the question was answered. There are universal constants in creation, GOD being one of them. If you do not believe Jesus is God manifest in the flesh, if you do not believe in Free-Will, you will not understand TTR. Pay attention to the discussion, these things have already been addressed.

Listen, even I am not completely convinced with TTR, and I am far more knowledgable concerning quantum mechanics, have an IQ of 160, among other things learning about God/Scripture/Christianity has been my sole purpose in life since I met Jesus in person (That was when I was 4 years old, I doubt anyone in this forum can say they dedicated their entire conscious life to knowing God.), I have publically stated I have reservations on TTR based on some things but since I do not completely understand quantum, I still have questions for TB myself, I can not myself disagree, only hold reservations until all this has been done. All I can do is say, I am not entirely convinced, but I do not rule out the possibility. There is just no way to disagree unless I completely understand TB's position in order to disagree. So, the fact you have made some affirmations of things TB doesn't believe nor has stated, demonstrates not only are you interpretting what TB is saying by the your limited knowledge and therefore making false conclusions, you also admit you not a learned person and cannot possibly know what TB is talking about and therefore you cannot honestly hope to disagree since you do not know what it is you are disagreeing to!

2 Peter 1:4-9
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires. For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.

That is the difference between conscious incompetence and unconscious incompetence and I am completely conscious of that which I am incompetent therefore I cannot agree or disagree, only hold reservations until every concern, question and understanding of TB's position is done.

Don't be so quick to point out your assumed errors of TB's position. Be patient and pay attention to the discussion.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2008, 08:23:18 AM by SOtW »

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Trans-Temporal Redemption a New Approach to Biblical Universalism
« Reply #109 on: August 18, 2008, 07:40:00 AM »
I would like to interject some thoughts along this line of reasoning.  Forgive my lack of scriptural references and feel free to refute, but this come to mind and I wanted to share it before I over thought it and started picking my own thoughts apart and then talk myself out of posting.   :laughing7:

I agree that  it is hard to think in a multi-dimensional fashion so I tried to draw upon what truths I might be able to see in this line of theorizing.   Theories are subject to current understanding and the term theory is often misunderstood.   Theory can be observed, but theory can also be a projection of what appears to be possible. 

Observable theory has this quality "It works this way, but it may not be the only way it works" 

Projectional theory is based upon non observable possibilities that have not been proven to be false, but have not currently demonstrated any value to change anything we observe.


Projectional theory should never take the place of observable theory as fact but as possibility.   These are my thoughts on how science should explain how theory actually affects us,  but unfortunatly it rarely is.


Now, the thought of going sideways in time intrigues me enough to contemplate it with the following thoughts.  Some of the links TB posted on Free-Will actually refutes the "Term" of free and reduces our will to the ability to understand, which is more along the line of what scripture tells me.  Please do not focus upon our disagreements of this and read the rest of what I wrote.

So, at the risk of opening that can of worms I simply do not reconcile a choice with being free in a biblical sense.  As I stated earlier the analogies of our human existance such as free people or freedom of or from something are not really applicable because the source of our freedom or lack thereof is a sovereign God that is intent (however he does it) on getting us where ** Edit HE wants us to go that is scripturally a place that is against our will.


With that said, taking that risk,  I propose the following.

I fully reject the idea that Gods word changes, I think the idea of multiple timelines is not a reasonable cause for Gods word ever changing.   However, God word can be built upon.  Meaning in other versions of history there may be more or less knowledge about God but not different.

If ALL comes out of God and God is in ALL then Gods spirit manifests the entire scope of ultimate existance.  There is not a different God in a different time line.  Because that WOULD be a changed God and a God whos word is different would have to be a different God.

We misunderstand the phrase "ALL things are possible"  because we can propose illogical instances about God that cannot be possible that do not detract from Gods sovereigty.  So proposing an impossibility with God is not an unreasonable proposal when that impossibility is simply the nature of existance.   

God is LOVE  so would it be possible for God to transform to HATE?   We can speculate that he could, but he doesn't,  so we can go down that trail, but I think it is simply impossible as much so as the argument for God making a rock so big that he could not lift it.  Illogic is still an impossibility. 

Here is a verse that supports that.

1Corinthians 1:25 for the stupidity of God is wiser than humanmen, and the weakness of God is stronger than humanmen.
So it really does not matter what we can speculate on there is nothing that can be used to say that man or any other being has any chance of being more powerful than God.


So continuing on  I can see a possible sideways movement even within my own life.  I will give this example, in fact I have always been wary of telling people this,  mostly because  the reactions have never really helped to validate it and I have only had to hang onto what I know God has shown me.  So I am glad for the thought process that this thread has caused.  As it actually helps to validate more of what I know.

Multiple time lines all intertwine and I think separate versions of history is also linear thinking, if one timeline cannot affect the other then there cannot be sideways movement and therefore cannot be non linear onlt multiple instances of lineararity (is that a word?)  haha.   It actually is a intellectual cluster saying   "I get a Do Over"

I think intertwining multiple time lines cause a closed loop that increases who we are as we go along.   

When I was within my drug addiction I can look back and actually see that I was much happier than I am now concerning how I felt,  but I did not see what I was doing to those around me.  I lost friends, alienated family and hated people but I was happy.  Christians will try to claim that you have to be miserable in that life and they have no idea what they are talking about.  If I had died during my drug use I would have died happy, period. 

I have much more turmoil now that I am AWARE of being on a path being drawn to God.   From physical birth we are being dragged by God whether we know it or not.  There are no choices that I made that I willingly made to "change".  I used drugs in the firsty place out of a compelling feeling to belong.  I stopped through a compelling notion that my wife was preganant and it was something I shouldn't do.   People invent the free will action after the fact of something because they want to feel in control, thats all that is. 

I do now willingly refuse drug use because of what I was taught, but that teaching was not of my own, there is no argument for free will  that will tell me differently than what I know in my own life, that is why the "Term" is wrong. 


Where I see the truth of multiple time lines is that I think there is an intertwining of physical reality that God has built for us.  SEE, we misunderstand reality and the physical in the first place.  If there are multiple version of history all going on at the same time, then the plane of existance that they are in is still physical.

I also sense that the multiple versions work together for our correction to build upon what we know.  My past drug use is taken by Christianity and made to be this beacon of death and is made to remain a dark part of my past,  my sin is taken and shaped to be a constant reminder of the possible doom I once faced.

What if the correctional value of multiple time lines has reshaped time so that my past drug use is "not remembered" as a negative and integrated into time as a redemptive value of an experience that humbled and shaped me towards the image of God.

I say that because in my life it is entirely true, I have countless example of positive things that only are taking place in my current "time frame" because of my past "sin"  but I do not see it as shame I remember it as good.



Hope that was worth reading, LOL









« Last Edit: August 18, 2008, 07:54:25 AM by Paul Hazelwood »

True Believer

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Re: Trans-Temporal Redemption a New Approach to Biblical Universalism
« Reply #110 on: August 18, 2008, 08:00:33 AM »
Craig,

Thanks for reminding people what has already been covered.

Paul,

We have much we can agree on.  I agree that the multiple timelines are deeply entangled, but feel that Jesus keeps closed loops from getting out of hand.  The paradox between human will and God's Will is very important, but until we get Biblical support for multiple timelines down pat there's no point in even talking about their interaction, for there is no way to address this paradox until the idea of multiple entangled timelines is accepted. 

More on these Biblical issues tomorrow.  Thanks for hanging in there.

Offline willieH

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Re: Trans-Temporal Redemption a New Approach to Biblical Universalism
« Reply #111 on: August 18, 2008, 09:58:12 AM »
willieH: Hi Sotw...:hithere:

I am concerned for you and your view of TTR...

And like every other discussion you are involved in, you make these conclusions based on your own understanding of what you just seen or heard, and not on what was actually seen or heard. I expressed concern concerning where Jesus fits in, the question was answered. There are universal constants in creation, GOD being one of them. If you do not believe Jesus is God manifest in the flesh, if you do not believe in Free-Will, you will not understand TTR.

How can you address someone, ANYONE, ...in this way?

As if YOUR PERCEPTIONS are the "end-all of understanding" ...and the rest of the GOD SEEKING people here, are just walking around in a fog...   :omg:

I am proud to note that I do NOT understand UNBIBLICAL doctrines... and have no desire to understand the Babylonian proposals made here...  which are a mythical distraction from REAL, and fruitful discussion...

I do not need to know all the facets of EVOLUTION to know it is of satan...   I recognize it trying to build its tower to HEAVEN...

You mention above that BELIEF in FREE WILL is necessary... (unbiblical)... to understand TTR, another (unbiblical) proposal...   :wacko2:

GOOD!  I for one, do not wish to understand nonsense... just be rid of it...  :dontknow:

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Listen, even I am not completely convinced with TTR, and I am far more knowledgable concerning quantum mechanicshave an IQ of 160, among other things learning about God/Scripture/Christianity has been my sole purpose in life since I met Jesus in person (That was when I was 4 years old, I doubt anyone in this forum can say they dedicated their entire conscious life to knowing God.)


2 Cor 10:12  For we dare NOT MAKE OURSELVES of the number or COMPARE OURSELVES, ...BY... OURSELVES with some that COMMEND THEMSELVES:  but MEASURING THEMSELVES ...BY... THEMSELVES, and COMPARING THEMSELVES ...among THEMSELVES... are NOT WISE...

Don't you know by now that it is known that YOU listing all your supposed "credentials" is a smokescreen you present, which is intended by you to ward off others from questioning YOU?   :dontknow:

We don't need to know (AGAIN) all your accomplishments brother... Its all well and good that you are dedicated to study... and I for one, commend that dedication...

What we need to know is...

A false witness is in the camp... which SELF-notes that HIS THEORY of TTR, is part of the WHOLE ARMOR of GOD...  :mshock:  :thumbdown:

And that HIS THEORY of TTR... negates CHRIST as UNnecessary, ...for eventually in some phantom "timeline", TB makes the claim that  Adam will NOT EAT... Which in turn negates the claims made in GOD's WORD in this "timeline" in which we DO live... that a SAVIOR would even be necessary...  :mshock:

For the witness in our midst, further proposes that NOTHING of this life shall be REMEMBERED, which in turn... deflates this experience to ridiculousness and FUTILITY, full of NEEDLESS SUFFERING, PAIN, and SORROW...

Serving NO PURPOSE whatsoever...  :thumbdown:

Exalt the WORD, do not consider alternative myths to it... 

TTR, is no more than the darkness of paganism appearing in modern form, in modern days... erecting BABYLONIAN ALTERNATIVES to believe in which are NOT in the WORD... and joins EVOLUTION as amongst the fanciest blocks with which IT trys to build its tower to HEAVEN...

THAT is what we need to know Craig... NOT a list of your accolades...

You wish to be a teacher...  then learn to recognize the satan when it is come into your midst...

No Bible school is necessary to recognize satan Craig... IT is seen by those with the eyes of GOD... given sight, to expose IT when IT appears...

IT condescends using ITS self-verified majesty, and IT denounces challenge and avoids those who QUESTION IT...

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Don't be so quick to point out your assumed errors of TB's position. Be patient and pay attention to the discussion.

You need to heed your own advice... Don't join IT brother, answer the questions I asked you...

Reconcile them with the WORD of TRUTH... if you cannot, then IT is thereby identified to you...

peacE...
...willieH  :dsunny:

Offline 97531

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Re: Trans-Temporal Redemption a New Approach to Biblical Universalism
« Reply #112 on: August 18, 2008, 04:25:59 PM »
Mod Break:

To True Believer

It seems that this topic is either going nowhere OR you want to explore the validity of this proposition OR you full understand the topic and want to share some new revelation.

Whatever the case, we can all see there are oppositions and IMO this may be due to terminolgy or battling to reduce this to simplictic understandable terms.

Now I am open minded and I find this intriguing and want to see all you have to share but I think we have reached an impasse on that.

Do you have the full teaching prepared - you keep promising a next episode that is lacking and possibly will addres questions asked.

We have two choices:

1. Allow you to present it uniterrupted with a 2nd thread of questions/debates or

2. Redirect this to the other forum where we have hidden debates board (Father Love)

Because there is a simplistic focus here, possibly the forum is NOT the best platform.

We can even keep it public there if you find an appropriate board to use with the same 2 thread approach.

Please let me know.

Blessings
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pneuma

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Re: Trans-Temporal Redemption a New Approach to Biblical Universalism
« Reply #113 on: August 18, 2008, 05:09:37 PM »
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Pay attention to the discussion, this has already been addressed. You demonstrating you are not either reading what TB has presented, or you are ignoring it, or you don't understand it. Never has another timeline negated Christ, because there is a universal constant of cause, it has been from the very beginning Jesus Christ, because He is God whom through all things have been created. Read the discussion and stop making assumptive conclusions that have already been addressed and answered.


Craig just because TB states that another time line does not negate Christ, the very thought of a time line where no one ever sinned does in fact negate Jesus coming in this time line and dieing for sin. Thus negating Jesus Christ.


So what this theory actually does is take away Christ's victory for us over sin and give that victory to US in another time line where we never sinned. So in fact it is this other time line that get the victory and not the Father through Jesus Christ. Thus if another time line exists there is another way to the Father then through Christ.

So TB or you can state all day long that it does not negate Christ but the facts tell a different story.

And I really cannot see how others here cannot see this.


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Listen, even I am not completely convinced with TTR, and I am far more knowledgable concerning quantum mechanics, have an IQ of 160, among other things learning about God/Scripture/Christianity has been my sole purpose in life since I met Jesus in person (That was when I was 4 years old, I doubt anyone in this forum can say they dedicated their entire conscious life to knowing God.),

Oh my, Craig if I so desired to do as Paul did, my pedigree as it were would exceed yours by almost double, as I am almost double your age. But such things Paul calls foolish speaking so I won't go into detail on it. For it really does not matter how long one has known the Lord for those in the 11 hour receive the same pay as those that laboured much longer in the heat of the day.

Offline 97531

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Re: Trans-Temporal Redemption a New Approach to Biblical Universalism
« Reply #114 on: August 18, 2008, 05:19:03 PM »
Mod Break (again)

Guys and Gals, let us see if we can accommodate TB in the suggestion above.  We unfortunately are into another slinging match and I am taking no sides here.

Let us pause for responses by TB and see where we go from here.  We can take the thread down if TB decides to take it to FLf.

RELAX

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martincisneros

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Re: Trans-Temporal Redemption a New Approach to Biblical Universalism
« Reply #115 on: August 18, 2008, 08:35:03 PM »
I'm with Bernie about this thread stopping until True Believer has had a chance to respond, post more, or to get with Bernie about moving this over to another forum where there might be a little less nonsense.  But I've just wanted to reply briefly to something that's repeatedly come up that I'm growing increasingly annoyed by.

Craig just because TB states that another time line does not negate Christ, the very thought of a time line where no one ever sinned does in fact negate Jesus coming in this time line and dieing for sin. Thus negating Jesus Christ.

What if the alternative time line were a product of the Blood of Christ rather than separate from Him in the way that you and WillieH have been supposing since Colossians 1 says that all things are created in Him?  Jesus said "I GO TO PREPARE A PLACE FOR YOU"  Time and space are interchangeable to scientists and anyone with a little imagination.

Offline Taffy

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Re: Trans-Temporal Redemption a New Approach to Biblical Universalism
« Reply #116 on: August 18, 2008, 08:45:10 PM »
Quote
Jesus said "I GO TO PREPARE A PLACE FOR YOU"  Time and space are interchangeable to scientists and anyone with a little imagination.

may I ask what you think this place is?.are ya saying this is a place of different time lines?
« Last Edit: August 18, 2008, 08:47:42 PM by Taffy »
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Molly

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Re: Trans-Temporal Redemption a New Approach to Biblical Universalism
« Reply #117 on: August 18, 2008, 08:47:24 PM »

What if the alternative time line were a product of the Blood of Christ rather than separate from Him in the way that you and WillieH have been supposing since Colossians 1 says that all things are created in Him?  Jesus said "I GO TO PREPARE A PLACE FOR YOU"  Time and space are interchangeable to scientists and anyone with a little imagination.

 :mshock:

 :Sparkletooth:

martincisneros

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Re: Trans-Temporal Redemption a New Approach to Biblical Universalism
« Reply #118 on: August 18, 2008, 08:59:44 PM »
may I ask what you think this place is?.are ya saying this is a place of different time lines?

Again, I'm hoping this thread is slowing down a bit until True Believer can get back to us about some of the things that Bernie has brought up.  I don't want to jump into superstring theory here, but with regards to the immortality that we're promised, I do believe that the current space-time demension is entirely too inadequate and is extremely fragile for what awaits us.  That's why the bodily resurrection is during that transition between the old and the new heavens and earth.  And in saying what I've said, I've not meant any of this to minimize anyone else's views of resurrection.  I just believe that resurrection is muti-layered, progressive, fluid, and ongoing and while it would include anything else that anyone else may believe about it, it'll still ultimately be bodily.

True Believer

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Re: Trans-Temporal Redemption a New Approach to Biblical Universalism
« Reply #119 on: August 18, 2008, 09:01:32 PM »
I'm preparing a response for the moderator(s), but am busy with mundane matters for the moment.

Please pause the thread until I return.

TB


Offline Taffy

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Re: Trans-Temporal Redemption a New Approach to Biblical Universalism
« Reply #120 on: August 18, 2008, 09:07:37 PM »
may I ask what you think this place is?.are ya saying this is a place of different time lines?

Again, I'm hoping this thread is slowing down a bit until True Believer can get back to us about some of the things that Bernie has brought up.  I don't want to jump into superstring theory here, but with regards to the immortality that we're promised, I do believe that the current space-time demension is entirely too inadequate and is extremely fragile for what awaits us.  That's why the bodily resurrection is during that transition between the old and the new heavens and earth.  And in saying what I've said, I've not meant any of this to minimize anyone else's views of resurrection.  I just believe that resurrection is muti-layered, progressive, fluid, and ongoing and while it would include anything else that anyone else may believe about it, it'll still ultimately be bodily.

No worries..i believe we see things from a different perspective, which doesnt make what we see to be wrong either.

I leave it there..im done with the thread.
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Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline 97531

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Re: Trans-Temporal Redemption a New Approach to Biblical Universalism
« Reply #121 on: August 19, 2008, 12:50:55 AM »
Actually Taf it is TB not PT.

TB PM whichever mods you see online or send a PM to all mods at the top of the screen is a link.

Blessings
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Offline Taffy

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Re: Trans-Temporal Redemption a New Approach to Biblical Universalism
« Reply #122 on: August 19, 2008, 01:00:15 AM »
Actually Taf it is TB not PT.

TB PM whichever mods you see online or send a PM to all mods at the top of the screen is a link.

Blessings

 Indeed ,apologies TB
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« Last Edit: August 19, 2008, 01:11:06 AM by Taffy »
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

martincisneros

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Re: Trans-Temporal Redemption a New Approach to Biblical Universalism
« Reply #123 on: January 15, 2010, 04:24:28 AM »
(speaking of aliens, I assume you've seen the new crop circle on milk hill, England, drawn on 8/8/08 in the shape of a 1000 foot figure 8?)

Yeah, that was me.  I've got an even bigger one in mind that I'm still working out the algorithms of :idea2:

Nearly crashed my ship on that one though.  That's all we'd need, huh?  Another Roswell :eyebrow:
:Sparkletooth: All done. :happy3: