willieH: Hi TB...
As it ruffled Craigs feathers a bit, I wish to remind you that I mean no PERSONAL OFFENSE to YOU... Craig is correct and I agree, you are a brother in CHRIST
But when it comes to your WORDS
, that is an entirely different matter...
Just as CHRIST
who deeply LOVED Peter, and had earmarked him one of the foundational places in the work of the GOSPEL
... addressed HIS WORDS
as they were DUE, ...accordingly (Matt 16:23)
You, it appears... consider yourself a teacher... and thereby base it upon complexity... whereas I have been given this gift as well... and base it upon simplicity...CHILDREN
are addressed which are likened to SHEEP
... both of these entities are SIMPLE
in nature, and observe innocently... and are found gleaning the largest portion when it is delivered at their level... which you obviously INTEND to exceed... think about it...
1. I corrected a typo in my very first post in which I said Isaiah 25:16 when I meant to say Isaiah 65:16 in quoting a verse that tells us that our past troubles will be forgotten and hidden from the eyes of God. I surprised that nobody complained about Isaiah 25:16 being a nonexistent verse.
For me, your "over-the-top" style wearies... but thanks for correcting yourself.
2. I used the word "versus" in my reply to willieH rather than the word "verses" when talking about the prophecies of Jeremiah 4:1-4 versus 5-31 and Joel 2:1-11 versus 12-32. This was intentional because I was trying to draw attention to the first group of verses in comparison to (versus) the second group of verses. The point was to highlight the explicit if/else nature of these prophecies. I didn't highlight the if/else prophecies of Malachi and Revelation to this level of detail because they were implicit or contained in a single verse.
IF/ELSE is the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL bro... we are able to learn the difference between OBEDIENCE (good) and DISOBEDIENCE (evil), by participating in BOTH...
3. I corrected the misspelling of Revelations to Revelation in my post to willieH.
Thanks again for correcting yourself, but let's face it, ...Only the VERY
ANAL shall hold you to such an error
4. Hi WillieH, in regard to the concern of yourself and others for scriptural support for "alternate" timelines: To start, if/else prophecies are an unambiguous affirmation of human free-will, and it is totally unreasonable to deny this obvious truth with half-baked theories of divine predestination, especially given the centrality of these if/else prophecies to Biblical eschatology.
If/else does NOT establish that other "timelines" exist... If I eat beans I increase the potential of farting, but abstaining from eating them, doesnt eliminate the possiblility...
When we combine if/else prophecies with God's foreknowledge of the end from the beginning (the very idea that you yourself mention so often), the only reasonable conclusion is that God has absolute foreknowledge of both branches of an if/else prophecy, something that leads straight to the concept of "multiple timelines," "quantum many worlds," etc. In short, the simultaneous truth of these two scriptural concepts leads directly to the multiplicity of "reality" being spoken of here, and is utterly incompatible with the simple linear predestination that you have proposed.
This is already beginning to weary me... but because God shall propose an "if/else" prophecy... does NOT conclude there are multiple pathways... It only states that one pathway can lead here, ...and the other -- there.
If I say to you... Arsenic WILL KILL you if you ingest it... but WILL NOT if you dont... does not propose that you have 2 potential destinies placed before you... It is simply stating SCIENTIFIC fact...
The Gospel of John says the Holy Spirit will reveal all things, and WillieH, if you or anyone has an alternate interpretation of how if/else prophecies and absolute foreknowledge can coexist, please share it, but don't deny the Biblically affirmed free-will inherent to an if/else prophecy, reduce God to a higher-dimensional clockwork, and/or hide behind an argument that we can not understand the logic of God.
First, along with your TOPIC title, "FREE WILL
" is an UNBIBLICAL proposal... so to introduce it to verify yourself and your CURRENT proposal, is a fallacy. For you are basing upon one UNBIBLICAL teaching, the verification of another.
This multiplicity of timelines that I propose is directly supported by the prophecy of Isaiah 65:16-17 which tells of a new heavens and earth in which the former events will not be remembered. A very strong but indirect form of support comes from the way the application of the message of Jonah chapter three to Biblical eschatology completely resolves the morass of seemingly contradictory prophecy via a multiplicity of mundane outcomes based on the choice of people in mundane time to repent or not.
You should watch your mouth
... it speaks in the language YOU understand, and does not convey teaching, rather SERVES ITSELF.
If we cannot have ANY RECALL of what EVIL IS... then this whole process is found to have been COMPLETELY FUTILE and has served NO PURPOSE whatsoever...
It also means that PAIN, SORROW, SUFFERING, DEATH... have been experienced for NO REASON... and that even the SUFFERING and DEATH of GOD's ONLY BEGOTTEN, was IN VAIN... which is UNREASONABLE!
You are SPIRITUALLY unable to see, blinded by your own Creations... one of which is the TOPIC TITLE... Is 65:16-17
in its proposal, which eludes you as you LITERALLY
Your PROPOSAL has created a LIE of what GOD's WORD
says... for The WORD SAYS
, that IN ADAM ALL DIE
... But you contrarily assert that eventually... IN ADAM ALL eventually LIVE...
Thereby removing CHRIST
, His Suffering, His DEATH, and FALSELY replacing Him with meaningless 25cent words, which endeavor to OVERWHELM others that have not as yourself, ...USELESSLY spent their time reading dictionarys... by proposing that we participate in MULTIPLE "DO-OVERS
" till we "get it right"...
I cannot even begin to roll my eyes
enough at this ridiculous, and self-serving nonsense...
The SPIRITUAL meaning in this verse is that THIS
scenario we find ourselves in, shall NOT be REPEATED... For IN THE MIND
is REALITY beheld... In the MIND
does EVIL find its BIRTHPLACE... (James 1:14)
There is an ORDER to ALL things... PAUL noted in... 1 Cor 15:46Howbeit that NOT which is SPIRITUAL, but that which is NATURAL; and AFTERWARD that which is SPIRITUAL...
So we which EACH have endured the NATURAL
... shall in the "NEW" HEAVEN (mind) and "NEW" EARTH (body) ...in ETERNITY, be found in the SPIRITUAL
The "NEW" HEAVEN
is the NEW MIND
which is the MIND
... EVIL does not appear in the MIND
The "NEW" EARTH
, is the SPIRITUAL BODY of CHRIST
... EVIL is not PRACTICED in the SPIRITUAL BODY
You my new friend, have spent far too much time in the self-glamorizing of YOUR own WORD perceptions ...instead of seeking to KNOW the perception of the WORD
of GOD... I believe I shall exit for the moment, and continue later... but before I go, let me comment on this:
P.S. Willie, about your complaint re the "Armor of God:" I waxed poetic by referring to the writing of God's laws on both heart and mind as the "Full Armor of God" in a different thread. Since the Bible defines the Armor of God explicitly, it was a poor choice of metaphor. None the less, the writing of God's laws on both heart and mind are crucial if we are going to deepen out understanding of the Bible and UR, and if we are to avoid foaming at the mouth and crying "wolf" with every new perspective that comes along.
First, ...you didn't "wax poetic"... you made a STATEMENT... and that statement was NOT metaphoric... As would anyone caught in ADVERSITY, your web entangles yourself...
Second, ...I am hardly "foaming at the mouth", please!
Because I am not impressed with YOU and your supposed INTELLECT, you find me "foaming"
Third, ...giving warning to the SHEEP is part of my calling bud... it is not "crying wolf", ...it is noting to those who have not noticed, that there is DANGER in the camp... you don't like it? GOOD!
Beware of me... for I shall as a good sheep dog, bite at the heels of my brothers and sisters here in this grouping I have been a part approaching four years... because I LOVE them ALL... and am UNWILLING to let any of them perish at the WORDS
of a potential predator... cautioning them to examine what you say... and not just accept it, because you, as do your EVOLUTIONARY brothers, propose OTHER than what is SAID in the WORD
... Subtily speaking AGAINST the WORD, ...craftily DECIEVING... with the WHISPERED proposals of Blasphemy...
Encouraging the DUMB ones (sheep) to have a BITE of your tainted and UNBIBLICAL FRUIT, and that we should see GOD as DOUBLE SPEAKING, with TRUTH being ONE THING in one "timeline" and the OPPOSITE in another!
If that makes you uncomfortable... tough!