Discussions Relating to Universal Reconciliation > Discussions on Universal Salvation

TM's Beliefs Regarding Universal Salvation

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Yes I know that according to many Revelation taken place at in 70AD (Jerusalem destoyed)
But I really doubt that means Revelation is just for Jews. And Revelation is an OT thing for works.
I think not. For example it's still not ok to worship the devil. So the 10 commandments still stand.
What we call New Testament actually means New Convenant.
When exactly that Convenant started?
a] In 70AD?
b] When Jesus said "It's done"?
c] Or perhaps at resurrection?
For me it starts b or c (which one is not important now)

So that would mean Revelation took place during New Convenant times.
And that automaticly means it's a new Convenant thing.
I simply assume God stopped "doing Old Convenant thing" after the great sacrifice of His own Son.

"A word not coupled with action will never be greater than a thought."



--- Quote from: Hischosen on October 18, 2009, 03:08:00 PM ---Yes works is judged. No question.
I want you to know that all books in the new testament I place in order of who they where designed for when written. I use them all but there not all for me as a Gentile. Like Matt. Mark. Luke. John ,,,I am a follower of Paul and his good news.

Lee Damboise II

--- End quote ---

Paul's good news reads like this (and I can show you very many scriptures from his own writing to verify this): We are delivered from the letter of the Law, but not delivered from the righteousness OF the Law which is love. In fact, we are delivered FROM evil works by being enabled to do the things which are in the law by nature, not by letter, due to the recieving of the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is indeed for both Jew and Gentile, and it is by that Spirit that we become "a law unto ourselves" showing that God's law is written in our hearts by circumcision of the heart by the Spirit (Romans 2), not by the letter.

This all revolves around salvation FROM sin, not salvation IN sin.


--- Quote from: Hischosen on October 18, 2009, 02:32:41 PM ---OK, I am one of those that lean toward the thought that there is no more sin, because I truly believe that breaking the law is sin and I am under no form of Jewish Law.
--- End quote ---

The law is not sin. The power of the law is sin. Paul said that the Law is good and holy, but that the power of the Law is sin, because the Law is not Spirit, and therefore the it is unable to deliver one from sin. The function of the law therefore is to reveal sin, not to save from it. Being delivered from sin means that the Law has done it's purpose, and Christ's purpose is to guide us in all righteousness by getting rid of sin.

--- Quote ---So, If I am not under law of any of the 640 Jewish rules, How do I sin.
--- End quote ---

You seem to be under the impression that the Law of Moses is the ONLY law. Where do you get that?

Galatians 6
1Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted. 2Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. 3If anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. 4Each one should test his own actions. Then he can take pride in himself, without comparing himself to somebody else, 5for each one should carry his own load.

Sin is lawlessness, so without the law of Moses, you can sin the same way that the Gentiles were able to sin even though they were not under those 640 Jewish rules: by not abiding by the Righteousness OF the Law which is Love, by not abiding by the "law of liberty" (from sin) which is in Christ.

I believe the knowledge of Jesus as the Son of God and the sacrifice for our sins (at least, some fundamental understanding of Him as being the Savior - not a highly developed belief system - but at least knowing Who to call on); when coupled with the faith given by God that leads to belief and repentance, that it's then that love is provided and nurtured, by the Holy Spirit, in our hearts.  By grace we are saved, through faith, and that not of ourselves.  I believe that can incorporate and reconcile the whole of the scriptures that speak of salvation.

I wanted to post a follow-up note to my original post.  No one at TM is told what to believe, and dissent, to a reasonable point is allowed - as long as it fits within the parameters of the Forum Guidelines.  One of the expectations is - and there are obviously some judgment calls by the mods involved - that no [extended] bodies of teaching can directly contradict Gary's.   Opinions/understandings, expressed as such, are generally allowed and can be good for discussion and learning.    I did want to get Gary's beliefs and stance right out in the open, and I personally very much agree with him.   Again personally, my comments (and occasionally my moderation) will often take that into account.

"Whosoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard?"



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