Author Topic: The LAW!  (Read 17795 times)

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DaughterofDavid

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #175 on: March 11, 2009, 11:27:10 PM »
Well this is interesting. I just looked up serpent in Strong's:

H5172
נחשׁ
nâchash
naw-khash'
A primitive root; properly to hiss, that is, whisper a (magic) spell; generally to prognosticate: -  X certainly, divine, enchanter, (use) X enchantment, learn by experience, X indeed, diligently observe.

"The serpent was more crafty than "any of the other animals in the garden"". The way we read that, we assume that the serpent was an "animal".

The whisper of the flesh. Learning by experience (the tree of knowledge of good and evil). Hmmm.


Hi Doc!

I posted a little earlier about how I believe the Serpent was able contaminate/defile Adam....

Yahweh told Adam and Eve in Gen 1:29...."And God said—Lo! I have given to you—every herb yielding seed which is on the face of all the land, and every tree wherein is the fruit of a tree yielding seed,—to you, shall it be, for food;"

We also learn in Gen 2:16-17 that ..."And Yahweh God laid command on the man, saying,—Of every tree of the garden, thou mayest eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it,—for in the day thou eatest thereof, thou shelf die."

So this to me points to the fact that the TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL was a tree WITHOUT SEED.

This then explains how the serpent used this VEHICLE (or the Host) of this particular tree that did not have any seed so that it would BE THE SEED that Eve & Adam ate/ingested.....and in so doing the mind of Adam was ESSENCED with the WHISPER of the Serpent.

Adam himself was not guilty/responsible for man's futility....for Romans 8:20 clearly say's......"or, unto vanity, hath creation been made subject—not by choice, but by reason of him that made it subject, in hope".

Be blessed Doc!
DoD

 


Offline Molly

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #176 on: March 11, 2009, 11:29:16 PM »
:cloud9: Amen, Zeek, Doc and Nathan. When I first came to the Lord He gave me a dream/vision I was not to understand for years. I had fallen asleep in the Word, and I saw in the Spirit, large jewels in gold fittings in rows within my chest. Just then the Lord spoke to me, "RESTORATION BACK TO THE ANOINTED CHERUBIM THAT COVERETH."

I think this is totality of restoring fallen man back to being one with THE High Priest, in the garden of God which we are, all in one sentence. Blessings....
If Adam hadn't participated with Eve--and maybe you think that is impossible, but for the sake of argument, let's just say it was possible--would all have died in Adam?  Is dying in Adam a type of covering?

 :cloud9: Yes, but he's a false covering, though, because our true covering is, of course, Christ Jesus. All of the deliverance we go thru if we are pressing in for sanctification of this temple is removing those things of the false covering produced by the union of the carnal mind (spirit/Adam) and the flesh (Eve). Blessings....
Where does it talk about a false covering in the Bible?  Are you thinking of nakedness as a type of false covering?   So the covering cherub--covered as best he could but with nakedness?  And what is that but the unrealized [dead] seed, or the subjection of the seed to vanity?

God himself gave them skin before they left the garden...
« Last Edit: March 11, 2009, 11:32:06 PM by Molly »

Offline Doc

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #177 on: March 11, 2009, 11:41:29 PM »
Well this is interesting. I just looked up serpent in Strong's:

H5172
נחשׁ
nâchash
naw-khash'
A primitive root; properly to hiss, that is, whisper a (magic) spell; generally to prognosticate: -  X certainly, divine, enchanter, (use) X enchantment, learn by experience, X indeed, diligently observe.

"The serpent was more crafty than "any of the other animals in the garden"". The way we read that, we assume that the serpent was an "animal".

The whisper of the flesh. Learning by experience (the tree of knowledge of good and evil). Hmmm.


Hi Doc!

I posted a little earlier about how I believe the Serpent was able contaminate/defile Adam....

Yahweh told Adam and Eve in Gen 1:29...."And God said—Lo! I have given to you—every herb yielding seed which is on the face of all the land, and every tree wherein is the fruit of a tree yielding seed,—to you, shall it be, for food;"

We also learn in Gen 2:16-17 that ..."And Yahweh God laid command on the man, saying,—Of every tree of the garden, thou mayest eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it,—for in the day thou eatest thereof, thou shelf die."

So this to me points to the fact that the TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL was a tree WITHOUT SEED.

This then explains how the serpent used this VEHICLE (or the Host) of this particular tree that did not have any seed so that it would BE THE SEED that Eve & Adam ate/ingested.....and in so doing the mind of Adam was ESSENCED with the WHISPER of the Serpent.

Adam himself was not guilty/responsible for man's futility....for Romans 8:20 clearly say's......"or, unto vanity, hath creation been made subject—not by choice, but by reason of him that made it subject, in hope".

Be blessed Doc!
DoD

 



Oh, right!... I think that makes sense to me with the whole seed thing based on what Father is showing me right now. It wasn't Adam per se, but the adversarial seed sown in his flesh.

Thanks for that.
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Offline Cardinal

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #178 on: March 11, 2009, 11:48:42 PM »
Where does it talk about a false covering in the Bible?  Are you thinking of nakedness as a type of false covering?   So the covering cherub--covered as best he could but with nakedness?  And what is that but the unrealized [dead] seed, or the subjection of the seed to vanity?

God himself gave them skin before they left the garden...

 :cloud9: Hi.....

Isa 25:7 - And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.

Isa 30:1 - Woe to the rebellious children, saith the LORD, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin:

There are many words in Hebrew that are translated covering. Interestingly, one of them means a "saddle". He calls us His goodly horses in the battle.

As a funny side note, I was on a Daniel fast a few years back (veggies, grains and water). I asked Him one day if I could use honey to sweeten my oatmeal and He said yes. Feeling empowered here, I asked Him if I could have an apple a day. He said yes. A little farther down the road (this was a 2 month fast) I asked Him if I could have an orange and He said no.

I was puzzling over this, why could I have an apple and not an orange? Then He dropped it into my spirit. He was feeding me like you would a horse! Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

DaughterofDavid

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #179 on: March 11, 2009, 11:58:06 PM »
Well this is interesting. I just looked up serpent in Strong's:

H5172
נחשׁ
nâchash
naw-khash'
A primitive root; properly to hiss, that is, whisper a (magic) spell; generally to prognosticate: -  X certainly, divine, enchanter, (use) X enchantment, learn by experience, X indeed, diligently observe.

"The serpent was more crafty than "any of the other animals in the garden"". The way we read that, we assume that the serpent was an "animal".

The whisper of the flesh. Learning by experience (the tree of knowledge of good and evil). Hmmm.


Hi Doc!

I posted a little earlier about how I believe the Serpent was able contaminate/defile Adam....

Yahweh told Adam and Eve in Gen 1:29...."And God said—Lo! I have given to you—every herb yielding seed which is on the face of all the land, and every tree wherein is the fruit of a tree yielding seed,—to you, shall it be, for food;"

We also learn in Gen 2:16-17 that ..."And Yahweh God laid command on the man, saying,—Of every tree of the garden, thou mayest eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it,—for in the day thou eatest thereof, thou shelf die."

So this to me points to the fact that the TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL was a tree WITHOUT SEED.

This then explains how the serpent used this VEHICLE (or the Host) of this particular tree that did not have any seed so that it would BE THE SEED that Eve & Adam ate/ingested.....and in so doing the mind of Adam was ESSENCED with the WHISPER of the Serpent.

Adam himself was not guilty/responsible for man's futility....for Romans 8:20 clearly say's......"or, unto vanity, hath creation been made subject—not by choice, but by reason of him that made it subject, in hope".

Be blessed Doc!
DoD

 



Oh, right!... I think that makes sense to me with the whole seed thing based on what Father is showing me right now. It wasn't Adam per se, but the adversarial seed sown in his flesh.

Thanks for that.

 :thumbsup: :dsunny:

Blessings Doc,
DoD

Offline sheila

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #180 on: March 12, 2009, 12:29:05 AM »
lol!! I liken you,darling to a mare :laughing7:

   way to go DOD :thumbsup:

  I was thinking of the GENUINE COVERING CHERUB and

   the AT ONE MENT COVER  that worked atonement

                              Sheila

Offline Molly

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #181 on: March 12, 2009, 01:22:07 AM »
Where does it talk about a false covering in the Bible?  Are you thinking of nakedness as a type of false covering?   So the covering cherub--covered as best he could but with nakedness?  And what is that but the unrealized [dead] seed, or the subjection of the seed to vanity?

God himself gave them skin before they left the garden...

 :cloud9: Hi.....

Isa 25:7 - And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.

Isa 30:1 - Woe to the rebellious children, saith the LORD, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin:

There are many words in Hebrew that are translated covering. Interestingly, one of them means a "saddle". He calls us His goodly horses in the battle.

As a funny side note, I was on a Daniel fast a few years back (veggies, grains and water). I asked Him one day if I could use honey to sweeten my oatmeal and He said yes. Feeling empowered here, I asked Him if I could have an apple a day. He said yes. A little farther down the road (this was a 2 month fast) I asked Him if I could have an orange and He said no.

I was puzzling over this, why could I have an apple and not an orange? Then He dropped it into my spirit. He was feeding me like you would a horse! Blessings....
This is really interesting.  Hence all the references to bridles and reins?

Does spirit ride us like a horse?   And, the wrong spirit is the wrong 'covering'?

Woe to the rebellious children...

 " that cover"

H5258
נסך
nâsak
naw-sak'
A primitive root; to pour out, especially a libation, or to cast (metal); by analogy to anoint a king: - cover, melt, offer, (cause to) pour (out), set (up).



"with a covering"

H4541
מסּכה
massêkâh
mas-say-kaw'
From H5258; properly a pouring over, that is, fusion of metal (especially a cast image); by implication a libation, that is, league; concretely a coverlet (as if poured out): - covering, molten (image), vail.


but not of my spirit...



We are to be only covered [ridden] by his spirit.   Not by idols of our own design or evil spirits?


Ah--he has put us out here naked--and now we are given a choice of covering--life or death.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2009, 01:27:32 AM by Molly »

Offline sheila

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #182 on: March 12, 2009, 01:33:22 AM »

  But He has made the choice for us..our covenant with death

 will be annulled!

Offline Molly

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #183 on: March 12, 2009, 01:37:19 AM »

  But He has made the choice for us..our covenant with death

 will be annulled!
well, yes, but if it goes that way, at what cost?



14Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.

 15Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

 16Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

 17Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.

 18And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

 19From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.

 20For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.


--Isa 28

Offline sheila

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #184 on: March 12, 2009, 01:43:52 AM »
  what cost,indeed,Molly

    surely you will not die..for God knows in the day you eat of it,your eyes shall be opened.......and both of their eyes were opened and they saw they were naked...and they covered themselves with leaves....

   as in Adam all die..so too, in Christ all shall live

Offline Molly

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #185 on: March 12, 2009, 01:46:29 AM »
  what cost,indeed,Molly

    surely you will not die..for God knows in the day you eat of it,your eyes shall be opened.......and both of their eyes were opened and they saw they were naked...and they covered themselves with leaves....

   as in Adam all die..so too, in Christ all shall live
I'm just sayin'

Grab onto Jesus and hold on with both hands...

Matthew 21:44
He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed."




Offline sheila

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #186 on: March 12, 2009, 01:48:25 AM »

   AMEN! Molly!

Offline Cardinal

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #187 on: March 12, 2009, 02:53:31 AM »
 :cloud9: Yes, Molly, He "rides" us like a horse. He's coming back on a white horse (redeemed soul) you know.  :winkgrin:

Thanks Sheila, a mare I be..... as long as I'm not a gelding, it's ALL good :laughing7:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

pneuma

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #188 on: March 12, 2009, 03:17:37 PM »
Quote
Now what I am learning at this stage in my walk with the Lord is that there is still a dying to the soul ....for the Lord showed me that the old adamic spirit was dead but the old adamic soul is now little by little being conquered by the King.

Hi DOD good posts sister, may I just add that after the soul dies that we then see the progression of this death applied to the spirit, for the earth earth man is also composed of spirit soul and body and every inch of him must die.



Quote
I will say this....your argument of Adam laying his life down....is something I believe is true....for no greater love has any man than this but to lay his life down for his friends....this is true AGAPE love....

Adam loved His bride....He didn't want to be departed from her....so he chose to DIE TO SELF so that she would not die alone.


For myself here I do not believe Adam laid down his life for Eve or died to self.

Eve is the expression of the soul.

And one must LOSE their soul in order to save it.

Adam by following his soul/Eve never lost his soul.

If Adam had of been obedient to God's word and lost his soul he then would have saved it.

Which would have been the true laying down of his life.


Zeek

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #189 on: March 12, 2009, 03:25:41 PM »
Quote
Now what I am learning at this stage in my walk with the Lord is that there is still a dying to the soul ....for the Lord showed me that the old adamic spirit was dead but the old adamic soul is now little by little being conquered by the King.

Hi DOD good posts sister, may I just add that after the soul dies that we then see the progression of this death applied to the spirit, for the earth earth man is also composed of spirit soul and body and every inch of him must die.



Quote
I will say this....your argument of Adam laying his life down....is something I believe is true....for no greater love has any man than this but to lay his life down for his friends....this is true AGAPE love....

Adam loved His bride....He didn't want to be departed from her....so he chose to DIE TO SELF so that she would not die alone.


For myself here I do not believe Adam laid down his life for Eve or died to self.

Eve is the expression of the soul.

And one must LOSE their soul in order to save it.

Adam by following his soul/Eve never lost his soul.

If Adam had of been obedient to God's word and lost his soul he then would have saved it.

Which would have been the true laying down of his life.



interesting Scott

so, he/Adam willfully sinned, not deceived but by active rebellion; knowing it would be a "marriage" with death.  So, basically, "Adam" (our spirit) can choose to "save his soul" (Eve) or die to it (and hence live unto the SPIRIT), with our spirit testifying with HIS that we are a child of God. 

Is that what u are saying??

trettep

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #190 on: March 12, 2009, 03:33:42 PM »
Some of the conclusions here are all over the place.  Maybe this will help:

In the beginning was the Rib, and the Rib was with Adam and the Rib was Adam.

Paul

Zeek

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #191 on: March 12, 2009, 03:34:19 PM »
and so Eve, who is the "soul" is representative of our seat of emotions, our iterpretation of the world based on our sensory perceptions, and combined with the "serpent", crafty guy; is deceived to interpret life through the senses (carnal mind).  So is the carnal mind, the "soul"??


Zeek

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #192 on: March 12, 2009, 03:38:40 PM »
A friend of mine wrote this on another forum, I don't think she'll mind if i share it:

"I see Adam as that deeper part of our mind, the subconscious which is "the knowing"....

Now from what I understand, the subconscious does not rationalize...it takes what is given to it after it has been filtered through the conscious mind....it doesn't question what it is given...

".... she (the conscious mind) took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband (the subconscious mind) who was with her, and he ate. Gen 3:6

he doesn't question, Adam just takes what Eve gives her and eats...

Now, if then in a symbolic way we can see Eve as the conscious mind we can begin to see why it is that she was deceived, yet Adam was not...

the conscious mind takes in information according to the senses...it then formulates beliefs, ideas, thoughts according to those senses....the conscious mind is prone to allowing the physical world determine what is truth...

the subconscious mind, I believe, has a sense of being and knowing that is deeply connected to spirit...it (adam) is the witness to the conscious mind (eve)...it (adam) doesn't judge one way or the other, but experiences and co-operates along with the conscious mind (eve) according to what the conscious mind believes....

this is why I see that the serpent spoke specifically with Eve...she is the only one who is able to take in information according to the senses...she is the "filter" so to speak...

the serpent is said to be "subtle"....meaning shrewd, sensible, prudent

sensible means: Capable of being perceived by the senses

prudent means: Sagacious (of quick sense perceptions) in adapting means to ends; circumspect (to look about one's self) in action

this all has to do with the senses....by which we experience the outside world...

and isn't it the senses which beguile us?? isn't it the senses which tempt us? which trigger the lusts within our own flesh...

eg...you're on a diet but you smell that yummy pizza which tastes so good but which you don't need for nutrition because you just ate a healthy salad...your senses trick you into eating it...

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
James 1:14


what I am saying here is that the subconscious cannot be tempted or deceived because it simply takes in that which it is given...

there are many who believe that the subconscious has the faith of a child...it goes along with whatever you tell it....and therein lies the rub...tell it lies, it goes along with the lies and so man, who houses both the conscious and subconscious, experiences the consequences of whatever his conscious mind feeds to his subconscious....

Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness.

(oh boy, if we could only get our conscious minds to shut up... )

I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

(if we would stop allowing the physical sensual world to teach the conscious mind of truth we would not be feeding the subconscious mind with the forbidden fruit of duality....to be still and know that I God...to stop being a slave to our thoughts which have previously taken authority over us, we in Christ are to take authority over our thoughts...)

For Adam (the subconscious where the essence of being resides) was formed first,

then Eve (the conscious mind where thoughts are formed and through which ideas spring forth into the physical world);

and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.

Yet she will be saved through childbearing--if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.
1 Timothy 2:11-15

this childbearing I believe to be the birth of thought in the womb of the conscious mind which manifests into expression...this is where we are to be "self-controlled" and thinking thoughts of faith, love and holiness...

the subconscious and conscious cannot be separated and one depends on the other just as in a true marraige...

so as any true husband should, adam (the subconscious) supports his wife (the conscious) in whatever she believes, and in fact does everything he can to fulfill her desires...whether they be productive or non-productive

so what I see is that, when the conscious mind begins to perceive the illusionary element to the physical world, and that what is going on in our minds is being projected outwards, we begin to take care of what we are birthing/thinking....if we can be saved through childbearing...we can be saved through changing our minds, (repenting) and through birthing Christed thoughts into the world rather than the thoughts seeded by the serpent (thoughts seeded by the sensual temptations of the physical world)....

interestingly "cherub" means imaginary thing and in fact there is some indication in the Hebrew traditions that it is connected to the serpent....could this then be connected to "vain imaginations"....if the cherubs are guarding eden, we could say our vain imaginations are guarding us from achieving that higher state of consciousness which is eden....

in my study of "image and likeness of God" months ago I saw that in one sense what we see when we look at ourselves is imaginary...a phantam, an illusion....only an "image" of Elohim...the essense of who we are lies not in what we can perceive with the senses, but is deeper....the essence of who we are lies in the subconscious...the witness, the knowing....and this cannot be deceived...it has known throughout the ages the truth, though hidden...and the experience of the conscious mind serves to lead man back to this deeper knowing that Laren pointed out...

Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God (the subconscious part of our minds), they (the conscious part of our minds) glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

so as Laren showed the "knowing God" comes first...that's Adam, the subconscious....then the conscious mind is deceived by the senses, turns the truth of God into a lie...takes God who is within and perceives Him as without....and the subconscious supports this belief to the extent that man ACTS out in this way....

what if the conscious mind is personified as the "Lord"...and what if in conjunction to that, the subconscious contains the I AM essence...then wouldn't so many verses make more sense with regards to the Lord commanding deaths of woman and children, sending evil spirits, creating calamity....isn't it man, deceived of our essence, creating the chaos in the world through the thoughts we birth in our conscious mind???

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD (in the conscious mind) do all these things.
Isaiah 45:7

but in the subconscious, there is no duality, no turning of shadow, no deception....everything is what it is....everything is witnessed and experienced...and somewhere along the way the woman (the conscious mind) gets tired of playing the harlot with the world, turns within to see her true husband who has been there all along unperceived by the veil between the subconscious and the conscious in the marriage chamber (man's head), merges and mates with him and begins to birth that which will save her....thoughts that have been taken captive to Christ....

hope that all made sense somehow....

just one of many levels of meaning I see in these scriptures,
peace and love,"

pneuma

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #193 on: March 12, 2009, 03:46:17 PM »
Quote
Now what I am learning at this stage in my walk with the Lord is that there is still a dying to the soul ....for the Lord showed me that the old adamic spirit was dead but the old adamic soul is now little by little being conquered by the King.

Hi DOD good posts sister, may I just add that after the soul dies that we then see the progression of this death applied to the spirit, for the earth earth man is also composed of spirit soul and body and every inch of him must die.



Quote
I will say this....your argument of Adam laying his life down....is something I believe is true....for no greater love has any man than this but to lay his life down for his friends....this is true AGAPE love....

Adam loved His bride....He didn't want to be departed from her....so he chose to DIE TO SELF so that she would not die alone.


For myself here I do not believe Adam laid down his life for Eve or died to self.

Eve is the expression of the soul.

And one must LOSE their soul in order to save it.

Adam by following his soul/Eve never lost his soul.

If Adam had of been obedient to God's word and lost his soul he then would have saved it.

Which would have been the true laying down of his life.



interesting Scott

so, he/Adam willfully sinned, not deceived but by active rebellion; knowing it would be a "marriage" with death.  So, basically, "Adam" (our spirit) can choose to "save his soul" (Eve) or die to it (and hence live unto the SPIRIT), with our spirit testifying with HIS that we are a child of God. 

Is that what u are saying??

Hi Zeek, yes Adam wilfully sinned, thus he sinned a sin unto death, there is a sin that is unto death and sin that is NOT unto death.

Wilful disobedience is a sin unto death. And we all know this because Adam entered into DEATH after his disobedience.

God sets before us the choice of life or death, obedience is life to the spirit, soul and body of man and disobedience is the death of spirit, soul and body of man.

The old man Adam is encased in death/disobedience and in order for it to be saved every part must come into obedience to the Father. Thus God disallows the covenant of death that man has made and brings us forth from death unto life.

pneuma

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #194 on: March 12, 2009, 03:54:17 PM »
A friend of mine wrote this on another forum, I don't think she'll mind if i share it:

"I see Adam as that deeper part of our mind, the subconscious which is "the knowing"....

Now from what I understand, the subconscious does not rationalize...it takes what is given to it after it has been filtered through the conscious mind....it doesn't question what it is given...

".... she (the conscious mind) took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband (the subconscious mind) who was with her, and he ate. Gen 3:6

he doesn't question, Adam just takes what Eve gives her and eats...

Now, if then in a symbolic way we can see Eve as the conscious mind we can begin to see why it is that she was deceived, yet Adam was not...

the conscious mind takes in information according to the senses...it then formulates beliefs, ideas, thoughts according to those senses....the conscious mind is prone to allowing the physical world determine what is truth...

the subconscious mind, I believe, has a sense of being and knowing that is deeply connected to spirit...it (adam) is the witness to the conscious mind (eve)...it (adam) doesn't judge one way or the other, but experiences and co-operates along with the conscious mind (eve) according to what the conscious mind believes....

this is why I see that the serpent spoke specifically with Eve...she is the only one who is able to take in information according to the senses...she is the "filter" so to speak...

the serpent is said to be "subtle"....meaning shrewd, sensible, prudent

sensible means: Capable of being perceived by the senses

prudent means: Sagacious (of quick sense perceptions) in adapting means to ends; circumspect (to look about one's self) in action

this all has to do with the senses....by which we experience the outside world...

and isn't it the senses which beguile us?? isn't it the senses which tempt us? which trigger the lusts within our own flesh...

eg...you're on a diet but you smell that yummy pizza which tastes so good but which you don't need for nutrition because you just ate a healthy salad...your senses trick you into eating it...

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
James 1:14


what I am saying here is that the subconscious cannot be tempted or deceived because it simply takes in that which it is given...

there are many who believe that the subconscious has the faith of a child...it goes along with whatever you tell it....and therein lies the rub...tell it lies, it goes along with the lies and so man, who houses both the conscious and subconscious, experiences the consequences of whatever his conscious mind feeds to his subconscious....

Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness.

(oh boy, if we could only get our conscious minds to shut up... )

I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

(if we would stop allowing the physical sensual world to teach the conscious mind of truth we would not be feeding the subconscious mind with the forbidden fruit of duality....to be still and know that I God...to stop being a slave to our thoughts which have previously taken authority over us, we in Christ are to take authority over our thoughts...)

For Adam (the subconscious where the essence of being resides) was formed first,

then Eve (the conscious mind where thoughts are formed and through which ideas spring forth into the physical world);

and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.

Yet she will be saved through childbearing--if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.
1 Timothy 2:11-15

this childbearing I believe to be the birth of thought in the womb of the conscious mind which manifests into expression...this is where we are to be "self-controlled" and thinking thoughts of faith, love and holiness...

the subconscious and conscious cannot be separated and one depends on the other just as in a true marraige...

so as any true husband should, adam (the subconscious) supports his wife (the conscious) in whatever she believes, and in fact does everything he can to fulfill her desires...whether they be productive or non-productive

so what I see is that, when the conscious mind begins to perceive the illusionary element to the physical world, and that what is going on in our minds is being projected outwards, we begin to take care of what we are birthing/thinking....if we can be saved through childbearing...we can be saved through changing our minds, (repenting) and through birthing Christed thoughts into the world rather than the thoughts seeded by the serpent (thoughts seeded by the sensual temptations of the physical world)....

interestingly "cherub" means imaginary thing and in fact there is some indication in the Hebrew traditions that it is connected to the serpent....could this then be connected to "vain imaginations"....if the cherubs are guarding eden, we could say our vain imaginations are guarding us from achieving that higher state of consciousness which is eden....

in my study of "image and likeness of God" months ago I saw that in one sense what we see when we look at ourselves is imaginary...a phantam, an illusion....only an "image" of Elohim...the essense of who we are lies not in what we can perceive with the senses, but is deeper....the essence of who we are lies in the subconscious...the witness, the knowing....and this cannot be deceived...it has known throughout the ages the truth, though hidden...and the experience of the conscious mind serves to lead man back to this deeper knowing that Laren pointed out...

Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God (the subconscious part of our minds), they (the conscious part of our minds) glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

so as Laren showed the "knowing God" comes first...that's Adam, the subconscious....then the conscious mind is deceived by the senses, turns the truth of God into a lie...takes God who is within and perceives Him as without....and the subconscious supports this belief to the extent that man ACTS out in this way....

what if the conscious mind is personified as the "Lord"...and what if in conjunction to that, the subconscious contains the I AM essence...then wouldn't so many verses make more sense with regards to the Lord commanding deaths of woman and children, sending evil spirits, creating calamity....isn't it man, deceived of our essence, creating the chaos in the world through the thoughts we birth in our conscious mind???

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD (in the conscious mind) do all these things.
Isaiah 45:7

but in the subconscious, there is no duality, no turning of shadow, no deception....everything is what it is....everything is witnessed and experienced...and somewhere along the way the woman (the conscious mind) gets tired of playing the harlot with the world, turns within to see her true husband who has been there all along unperceived by the veil between the subconscious and the conscious in the marriage chamber (man's head), merges and mates with him and begins to birth that which will save her....thoughts that have been taken captive to Christ....

hope that all made sense somehow....

just one of many levels of meaning I see in these scriptures,
peace and love,"

I enjoyed that bro, thanks for sharing, many, many layers to the onion of Gods word.

Zeek

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #195 on: March 12, 2009, 04:17:07 PM »
An article some might find helpful:


"Divine Alchemy - The Secret to Immortality
Revelation Teaching Advancing the Kingdom Age and the Immortal Son   

This was written December 14th with a sense of great urgency and added in a very rough form. My apologies for spelling or grammatical errors!

DIVINE ALCHEMY
The Secret of Immortality

December 14, 2007 - Revised December 24, 2007

Dear friends,

To understand this article it is necessary for the reader to understand the writers viewpoint. Therefore for the sake of time, please consider that the creation accounts in Genesis 1 & 2 are parables.

When God refers to the word "Male" in the book of Genesis, I believe He is referring to the Spirit in all men. Therefore "Adam" represents the Spirit of God in all mankind. When "Spirit" is recorded in scripture the language uses a masculine noun. 

Conversely when God uses the term "Female" in the book of Genesis I believe He is referring to the Soul in all men. Therefore "Eve" represents the Soul in all mankind. "Soul" is recorded in scripture the language uses a feminine noun. 

Spirit is God. Soul is limited to the mind of man.

Genesis 1 is an ideal account of creation. It is creation at its absolute best. God and man are one. They walked together, talked together; they are in harmony and in complete union. They are one flesh. There is no account of a separation, a serpent, an apple or any such thing. This is an ideal creation with an ethereal atmosphere, sort of like the kingdom I imagine. It is a spiritual existance without physical, mortal trappings. It is under a divine rule and reign.

Our next account of creation is a bit different. Considering it as a parable it is God trying to relate to us the partnership we have with Him. God brings two parts to the equation, bringing woman out of man as a helpmate. This helpmate is the mind or soul of man. The mind is a helpmate in that it helps the spirit deal with "matter" or the physical mortal dimension if you will. The soul/mind reasons, builds, rationalizes, constructs, stategizes, problem solves etc.

The spirit (Adam) and soul/mind (Eve) are in glorious union with God. Then one day Eve (the mind) begins to rationalize, reason and think apart from her mate (that is the spirit that is self sacrificing, all consuming love or what is described in Corinthians 13) and is tempted by selfish thought, desired the apple, ate of it and all of a sudden the soul recognized good and evil for it became the same when the mind was not in union with perfect love. Eve began to use the mind separately from the spirit (ADAM). Our carnal nature was born (dualism) and we have struggled ever since as the mind has become our master rather than a servant. Remember Eve (the soul/mind) is the womb of creation. What it thinks it conceives, and we have been creating this world of good and evil ever since.

I believe the account of creation in Genesis 2 is in parabolic form at its best relating to us our condition as beings that perceive separation from God and have thus created our own hellish reality, creating good and evil and judging between it. This is why we are exhorted time and time again not to judge!!! We have a creative force living inside of us and when we judge, we create and we create this present age that is under the LAW. And we have been under the LAW by God's grace - the LAW is a tutor that will ultimately lead us to CHRIST. If you dont have a full understanding of what Christ is I urge you to read a short article called, "Christ is a Verb" located on this website.

"The possibility of ending duality is impossible as long as we remain in the consciousness of good and evil. We have to transcend it and enter a different consciousness, but we cannot do that if we continue to judge.

As long as we continue to judge the events in our lives, we give power to them as either good or bad, which determines the course of our lives.

To end it and then transcend it, we must step outside of this polarity."

Taken from The Ancient Secret of the Flower of Life Volume 2 by Drunvalo Melchizedek

It is in and through our judgment that we create our own reality. This separation and subsequent condition between God and man is a product of the soul or ego based human. It is from this position that the entirety of scripture is written, history, parables and patterns that will ultimately lead us to union once again with God. He is not far away as Adam is the seed of the spirit resident in everyman. The soul that is not "wed" (consumed by her groom, the spirit, perfect self sacrificing love) is creating this ultimate age of duality, a creation that is rooted in carnality. In this age man uses his own rationale and is not "led of the spirit." This pattern is reflected in the physical reality of human marriage. The female (SOUL) is supposed to submit to her husband (THE SPIRIT OF GOD). Paul when exhorting husbands and wives says that he is speaking of a mystery not necessarily to them but speaking about CHRIST AND HIS CHURCH.

Ephesians 5:28- 28 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. 30 For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. 31 "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh." 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

*****

Recently I have been thinking and reading a little bit about alchemy. For those who dont know what alchemy is, I'll try to explain. I had seen the word but never knew what it was until recently. Alchemy as defined by Webster's below. 

Alchemy: 1: a medieval chemical science and speculative philosophy aiming to achieve the transmutation of the base metals into gold, the discovery of a universal cure for disease, and the discovery of a means of indefinitely prolonging life2: a power or process of transforming something common into something special3: an inexplicable or mysterious transmuting.

Notice the phrase speculative philosophy above meaning that this is not a proven science to my knowledge. But there sure has been a lot of discussion surrounding the art of turning base or non-precious metals into something very precious, gold, and this discussion has gone on for centuries.

*Alchemy was known as the spagyric art after Greek words meaning to separate and to join together. Compare this with the primary dictum of Alchemy in Latin: SOLVE ET COAGULA Separate, and Join Together.

I really started thinking about this process and what it might mean to us given the knowledge that in Genesis 1 male and female (soul and spirit) were not separate, male and female were together in one divine, spiritual, immortal being. We read in this first account of creation that God created them in His image, one being with both male and female attributes. 

Genesis 1: 26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

Then in Genesis 2 separation took place:

Genesis 2:21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. 22 Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man. 23 And Adam said: "This is now bone of my bones And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man." 24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. 25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed. 

I believe it was with the intent of God to separate and bring them back together in what would be called union or marriage if you will. This marriage is eluded to many times by Jesus Christ who was the divine pattern of union with God. Jesus submitted his will to the will of His Father. Jesus said in the Garden of Gethsemane, 'Nevertheless, not my will but thy will." This separation was played out in the natural, physical patterns of male (spirit) and female (soul) so that by nature we could comprehend the mysteries of God. God speaks to us through nature and by the created things reveals to us mysteries!

Romans 1:19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse

Let's look a little further. It is said in the following scripture that Adam was not deceived but the woman Eve was...

1Timothy 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

My opinion is this: Adam was not deceived (the spirit in man) but Eve was deceived (the soul in man). Adam willingly took the fruit and entered into death - as in the lamb slain before the foundation of the "world" - the world being created under the law due to the consequences of eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. This willingness to fall with his bride is an act of self-sacrificing, all consuming love! I imagine our groom said, "I'll fall with you! for I will never leave you nor forsake you! Nothing can keep me from you! We are one! The only place where we are separate is in your mind! But I am with you! Even unto the end of the age!"

We were then separated in our mind, Adam and Eve, soul and spirit yet in one entity, being brought together again to produce something precious, the Son of God.

Consider again what alchemy means:

*Alchemy was known as the spagyric art after Greek words meaning to separate and to join together. Compare this with the primary dictum of Alchemy in Latin: SOLVE ET COAGULA Separate, and Join Together.

Below is a quote from a book called Life and Teaching of the Masters of the Far East Volume 1.

"Remember that youth is Gods seed of love planted in the human form divine. Indeed youth is the divinity within man; youth is the life spiritual the life beautiful. It is only life that lives and loves the one life eternal. Age is unspiritual, mortal, ugly, unreal. Fear thoughts, pain thoughts, and grief thoughts create the ugliness called old age. Joyous thoughts, love thoughts, and ideal thoughts create the beauty called youth. Age is but a shell within which lies the gem of reality the jewel of youth.

Practice acquiring the consciousness of childhood. Visualize the divine child within. Before falling asleep suggest to your consciousness, I now realize that there is within me a joy-body ever young, ever beautiful. I have a beautiful spiritual mind, eyes, nose mouth, skin the body of the Divine Infant, which now, tonight, is perfect. Repeat this affirmation and meditate upon it quietly while falling asleep. Upon rising in the morning suggest to yourself aloud, Well dear (addressing yourself by name), there is a divine alchemist within. By the spiritual power of these affirmations during the night a transmutation takes place and the unfolding from within, the spirit has saturated this spiritual body and spiritual temple. The inner alchemist has caused dead and worn out cells to fall and the gold of new skin to appear with perpetual health and loveliness. Truly divine Love in demonstration is eternal youth. The divine alchemist is within my temple, constantly coining new and beautiful baby cells. This spirit of youth is within my temple this human form divine, and all is well." End Quote

All is well.

So, we are separated yet in one body. Isn't it interesting the there are two hemispheres in the brain? Left and right and I have even heard them referred to as east and west. Could creation be displaying to us a spiritual truth in the earth?

I have some thoughts about east and west and what they symbolize, eastern hemisphere representing the divine mystical and spiritual emphasis in the brain (or world) and the western hemisphere representing logic, rational, carnal thinking emphasis in the brain (world). I know that these two portions of the brain also represent duality especially as the left-brain (Eve) functions without and independent of the spirit (Adam). I believe these two hemispheres currently function separately but will ultimately return as one (union). When they asked Jesus when His kingdom would come (when he would return) he said as lightning flashes from the east to the west so will the coming of the son of man be. Lightning symbolizes the power of God coming to the earth. Notice that the lightning has to come from the EAST (the spirit!) to the west - the soul.

In my limited understanding there are electrical pathways in the brain that don't crossover from one side of the brain to the other. We can have a logical thought that fires around in the left (west) side of the brain but it is independent of spiritual emphasis. Just as there is spiritual, imaginative thought firing in the right (east) part of the brain independent of the left. I have read that the separating veil (and isn't it interesting that it is called a "veil"?) between the hemispheres (corpus callosum) may be thinning and that soon we may see an evolutionary step in the making where thought patterns are not limited hemispherically. The east (spirit) will proceed the west (mind). The mind, Eve or the bride will submit to her groom, the spirit. So Jesus said as lightning flashes (originates) from the spiritual mind to the carnal mind so will my coming be (the son of man or us, into the kingdom or 4th dimension). It is also interesting that the Song of Solomon Chapter 5 speaks of a time when the bride will have her "veil" taken away.

So allow me to speculate. Why did God separate us? He knew that He would ultimately plan a "re-UNION"so why the separation to begin with? In all of creation, he created mankind unique in that we are like Him, created in His likeness, with the ability to choose or refuse him. He is a gentle lover, never forceful or coercive. He longs for His bride to desire Him, to chase after Him, to love Him with all of her soul. He wants her to choose Him. She is veiled, unable to see His majesty unlike the angels who behold his glory with unveiled eyes. But we who are veiled are then courted by His unfailing love not as eyewitnesses but one who must perceive with the heart. What groom wants a bride to love Him without choice? Therefore He created us, like Him, with the ability to choose or to be led astray by that infamous woman Jezebel whom we have suffered to teach us (Revelation 2). Jezebel (the soul!) usurps the authority of her husband (the Spirit) and thus the human is thrown on a sickbed and ultimately dies. It is a death by carnal nature!!!

But now the veil rent, the bride is coming out of her closet looking for her beloved the one who is the lover of her soul.
The Spirit is her groom. He is all consuming, unfailing LOVE. The Spirit is immortal. This immortal babe is in you. It is Christ born into humility (the manger), the submitted, humbled human soul.

You are not your mind. You are an immortal spiritual being having a temporal mortal experience. Step outside of your mind and see who you are. Be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Be born again. Be born from above!"

http://www.immortalson.com/Divine_Alchemy.html

 


DaughterofDavid

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #196 on: March 12, 2009, 04:43:02 PM »
Quote
Now what I am learning at this stage in my walk with the Lord is that there is still a dying to the soul ....for the Lord showed me that the old adamic spirit was dead but the old adamic soul is now little by little being conquered by the King.

Hi DOD good posts sister, may I just add that after the soul dies that we then see the progression of this death applied to the spirit, for the earth earth man is also composed of spirit soul and body and every inch of him must die.


Quote
I will say this....your argument of Adam laying his life down....is something I believe is true....for no greater love has any man than this but to lay his life down for his friends....this is true AGAPE love....

Adam loved His bride....He didn't want to be departed from her....so he chose to DIE TO SELF so that she would not die alone.


For myself here I do not believe Adam laid down his life for Eve or died to self.

Eve is the expression of the soul.

And one must LOSE their soul in order to save it.

Adam by following his soul/Eve never lost his soul.

If Adam had of been obedient to God's word and lost his soul he then would have saved it.

Which would have been the true laying down of his life.



interesting Scott

so, he/Adam willfully sinned, not deceived but by active rebellion; knowing it would be a "marriage" with death.  So, basically, "Adam" (our spirit) can choose to "save his soul" (Eve) or die to it (and hence live unto the SPIRIT), with our spirit testifying with HIS that we are a child of God. 

Is that what u are saying??

Hi Zeek, yes Adam wilfully sinned, thus he sinned a sin unto death, there is a sin that is unto death and sin that is NOT unto death.

Wilful disobedience is a sin unto death. And we all know this because Adam entered into DEATH after his disobedience.

God sets before us the choice of life or death, obedience is life to the spirit, soul and body of man and disobedience is the death of spirit, soul and body of man.

The old man Adam is encased in death/disobedience and in order for it to be saved every part must come into obedience to the Father. Thus God disallows the covenant of death that man has made and brings us forth from death unto life.


Hello Pneuma!

I want to thank you for all that you have written....and I also want to say that I AGREE with everything too....I would like to clarify on 2 of my comments.

The statement...."Now what I am learning at this stage in my walk with the Lord is that there is still a dying to the soul ....for the Lord showed me that the old adamic spirit was dead but the old adamic soul is now little by little being conquered by the King."

For me my language right now is that of a toddler....I am one that has not learned any of what I am speaking through books or other's that have written on the new birth...all I can say is what I have experienced...what my Father has wrought within me....I have been a believer for over 20 yrs. but have only been born from above over the last couple of years....for I always thought that the term 'born again' was when a person gave their heart to the Lord....I have a new understanding of that word now....for I see that just as in the natural so too in the Spirit....so what I first thought of as 'born again' I now understand to be 'conception'....then as one is GROWN in the womb through all the processes of Father and DEVELOPS the ears of the spirit, the eyes of the spirit, the hands, the feet....ect of the Spirit...there comes a DAY when the cross has worked such a death that the old adamic spirit dies and the NEW CREATION SPIRIT is born.

This was a very real death for me....and a very real birth.

I have since learned what it means to have Micheal and the dragon fighting within my HEAVENS....for I have never encountered such a fighting within (my mind) as I have over the last couple of years since I have come to the REALITY of SONSHIP....there indeed is a very real war that takes place in the Heavens. This is the battle of ESTABLISHING that I believe we see that Father wants to do with His New Jerusalem people. (Is. chpt 62).

Now as I questioned my Father as to what was going on....telling Him that I did not understand and explaining to Him that I thought I had died to Old Adam...I heard these words..."You died to the Spirit of Old Adam but the Soul of the Spirit of Old Adam is now dying"....and eventually the outer garment (body) will be clothed with my Heavenly garment that is the reality of my TRUE SELF...the self/spirit that I now am IN HIM.

Now as to the other comment I made...."I will say this....your argument of Adam laying his life down....is something I believe is true....for no greater love has any man than this but to lay his life down for his friends....this is true AGAPE love....

Adam loved His bride....He didn't want to be departed from her....so he chose to DIE TO SELF so that she would not die alone
.

When I used the phrase..."DIE TO SELF"....I was referring to the actual life (physical)....not His *soul*....
and in that respect He did show His love for her in that he gave up his physical life so that she would not die alone...this to me is one of those *secret things* that belong to the Lord for it has not been revealed to me as yet if Adam knew what the consequence of obedience would have been....but as according to what you wrote I completely AGREE....

Eve is the expression of the soul.

And one must LOSE their soul in order to save it.

Adam by following his soul/Eve never lost his soul.

If Adam had of been obedient to God's word and lost his soul he then would have saved it.

Which would have been the true laying down of his life
.
************

Once again my *language* is still that of a toddler....and I am searching in my vocabulary to bring forth the understanding of the reality that I have learned /experienced thus far in my walk with Him....
I completely agree with what you wrote above....

I also loved what you wrote to Zeek about obedience....yes! I see it that way too.

Thank you my brother for helping me to clarify my thoughts....spurring me on to know Him....

What a wonder you are IN HIM.

I give you praise Lord!

Be blessed dear brother,
DoD




Offline Taffy

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #197 on: March 12, 2009, 09:44:17 PM »
Quote
For myself here I do not believe Adam laid down his life for Eve or died to self.

Eve is the expression of the soul.

And one must LOSE their soul in order to save it.

Adam by following his soul/Eve never lost his soul.

If Adam had of been obedient to God's word and lost his soul he then would have saved it.

Which would have been the true laying down of his life.

 :icon_flower:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Taffy

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #198 on: March 12, 2009, 09:47:53 PM »
Ho Sheila\Dod

Just a small note to say Thanks for sharing along with us, Its real Good to have you at Tent
Blessings

 :icon_flower: :icon_flower:

Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

DaughterofDavid

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #199 on: March 12, 2009, 10:14:19 PM »
Ho Sheila\Dod

Just a small note to say Thanks for sharing along with us, Its real Good to have you at Tent
Blessings

 :icon_flower: :icon_flower:



Thank you Taffy.... :bigGrin:....

As from your wedding picture ....you are the groom right??

Either way....just know that I am being so blessed by many here at TM....including you! :icon_flower:

DoD