Author Topic: The LAW!  (Read 20199 times)

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Zeek

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #150 on: March 11, 2009, 09:41:28 PM »
Here's one way to look at it:

Adam/Israel priests

Eve/rest of Israel


destined for death
don't believe in Him===>death

In Adam all die



Last Adam/Jesus/High Priest
Last Eve/Bride of Christ/church

destined for life, life giving Spirit,   Believe in HIM, never die.

In Christ all alive.



At the return of Christ, first Adam/Eve done away with (saved through fire)


Second Adam/eve rewarded; and the means for "LIFE for ALL"


just thinking still


blessings

Offline Molly

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #151 on: March 11, 2009, 09:51:18 PM »
19Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

 20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

 22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:


 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

--Rom 3


DaughterofDavid

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #152 on: March 11, 2009, 10:03:41 PM »
[quote author=DaughterofDavid link=topic=5017.msg55699#msg55699

The Soul is what is the SEAT of the mind, will, heart, and emotions....and with it comes all the memories of the old nature....what I call the RESIDUE....and there is a very real cleansing and drying out of the MARROW of the heartblood of the old adamic spirit.  The marrow is where the LIFE of the blood comes from. For we know by scripture that the life is in the blood.

Eventually, as the salvation of the soul is complete....then that is when I believe the FULL REDEMPTION will be manifested in the outer-shell ....the BODY.....

 :cloud9: Another good post DOD  :thumbsup: . Can I just add a few things? The soul's parts as He has shown me are the mind, will, emotions and DESIRES. These 4 are the same as the rivers that came out of Eden divided, but are made ONE again by Revelation, by being back IN HIM, their covering they had before they fell and were divided.

This is also why there were 4 corners with 4 horns on the altar of sacrifice, to tie us down with cords of love that cannot be broken, making of us a sweet smelling sacrifice unto the Lord. For our ashes, He gives us beauty.

Horn literally means power; His horn is His Spirit. Horn also means ray or point. A crown has points, and in old times the points represented each area the king had dominion over. His Spirit came upon our heads as tongues (a tongue is a ray or point also) of fire.

These 4 sections of the nighttime of our souls, are as watches. Can ye not watch with me one hour? And again, He came to the disciples walking on the water, in the fourth watch. The fourth watch has to do with the desires of the heart, and it is here that He begins to deal with our desires. This ties in with a teaching He gave me about walking on the water, but I will stop here for now. Blessings....
[/quote]
*************************************

I LOVE IT....I tell ya, I give my precious Lord all the GLORYYY.....I am sitting here just being SO BLESSED by all that you have just shared.

THANK YOU!

I haven't even read the other comments yet...so I am sure I will be blessed by those too.

Yes, I can see what you are saying about Desires....for when I pray to the Lord and ask for His Kingship and Lordship over my heart ....I ask for HIS DESIRES....His motive....of His Heart to be given to me.

Thank you again beloved Cardinal! :HeartThrob:
DoD

Offline Molly

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #153 on: March 11, 2009, 10:08:34 PM »

brought down to sheol, =death; a man

In Adam all die.  




All died in the first Adam.


 3For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

--Col 3


[When Christ]..."appears"

G5319
φανερόω
phaneroō
fan-er-o'-o
From G5318; to render apparent (literally or figuratively): - appear, manifestly declare, (make) manifest (forth), shew (self).

Offline Doc

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #154 on: March 11, 2009, 10:17:33 PM »
Ok, since you guys are discussion this then I am going to jump in and tell you why I believe Adam wasn't deceived.  I don't believe Adam was deceived because He is the Serpent - Not him specifically, but His Disobedient nature is.  That nature didnt' exist until at least Adam existed.  In other words I don't believe the Devil existed until Adam did.  But let me go further and explain.  Notice here:

Gen 3:2  And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

Why would Eve say to the serpent "WE".  If Adam was with Eve when she was saying this then Adam would have been deceived also if the Serpent is someone else.  Now was Adam with her?

Gen 3:6  And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Why would God have inspired to put that phrase "with her" into the scriptures?  Must have been very important information.

Gen 3:12  And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

Notice in that verse that Adam is turning the focus towards Eve the woman that God gave him.  To me it is as if Adam is saying "you wanted me to have her.  She is what I desired to have and you gave me what I desired".

Notice what God says to Adam:

Gen 3:17  And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

Did God give us the words of the Eve that Adam hearkened unto?  I believe those words are these:

Gen 3:2  And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Gen 3:3  But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

So what led me to this investigation was when Jesus called Peter Satan.  

Now, I have come to believe that our disobedient nature IS the Serpent and what is called the DEVIL.  Who's works (sin) that Jesus came to destroy.

Paul

Yes, that's more or less the way I see it too, Paul.
God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
"Prayer doesn't change God, it changes me." --C.S. Lewis

God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

Res Veritas Loquitur

Offline Molly

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #155 on: March 11, 2009, 10:18:18 PM »
John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.



[he] "hath declared"  [him.]
G1834
ἐξηγέομαι
exēgeomai
ex-ayg-eh'-om-ahee
From G1537 and G2233; to consider out (aloud), that is, rehearse, unfold: - declare, tell.



G1537
ἐκ, ἐξ
ek  ex
ek, ex
A primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence motion or action proceeds), from, out (of place, time or cause; literally or figuratively; direct or remote): - after, among, X are, at betwixt (-yond), by (the means of), exceedingly, (+ abundantly above), for (-th), from (among, forth, up), + grudgingly, + heartily, X heavenly, X hereby, + very highly, in, . . . ly, (because, by reason) of, off (from), on, out among (from, of), over, since, X thenceforth, through, X unto, X vehemently, with (-out). Often used in composition, with the same general import; often of completion.



G2233
ἡγέομαι
hēgeomai
hayg-eh'-om-ahee
Middle voice of a (presumed) strengthened form of G71; to lead, that is, command (with official authority); figuratively to deem, that is, consider: - account, (be) chief, count, esteem, governor, judge, have the rule over, suppose, think.




Zeek

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #156 on: March 11, 2009, 10:21:37 PM »

brought down to sheol, =death; a man

In Adam all die.  




All died in the first Adam.


 3For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

--Col 3


[When Christ]..."appears"

G5319
φανερόω
phaneroō
fan-er-o'-o
From G5318; to render apparent (literally or figuratively): - appear, manifestly declare, (make) manifest (forth), shew (self).


so what does he who believes in HIM will never die mean to you??

Offline Molly

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #157 on: March 11, 2009, 10:23:12 PM »

brought down to sheol, =death; a man

In Adam all die.  




All died in the first Adam.


 3For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

--Col 3


[When Christ]..."appears"

G5319
φανερόω
phaneroō
fan-er-o'-o
From G5318; to render apparent (literally or figuratively): - appear, manifestly declare, (make) manifest (forth), shew (self).


so what does he who believes in HIM will never die mean to you??
Exactly what it says. :thumbsup:

Offline Doc

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #158 on: March 11, 2009, 10:25:32 PM »
So is this scripture referring to Adam??  



Ez 28

13 You have been in Eden, the garden of God. Every precious stone was your covering; the ruby, the topaz, and the jasper, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the turquoise, and the carbuncle, and gold; the workmanship of your tambourines and of your flutes in you. In the day you were created, they were prepared.

14 You were the anointed cherub that covers, and I had put you in the holy heights of God, where you were. You walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, until iniquity was found in you.

16 By the multitude of your trade, they filled your midst with violence, and you sinned. So I cast you defiled from the height of God, and I destroyed you, O covering cherub, from among the stones of fire.

17 Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor. I have cast you to the ground.



Is 14

12 " How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [How] you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!

13 For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north;

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.'

15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, To the lowest depths of the Pit.

16 "Those who see you will gaze at you, [And] consider you, [saying:] '[Is] this the man [/color] who made the earth tremble, Who shook kingdoms,



brought down to sheol, =death; a man

In Adam all die.  


was the deceiver a man??  

Hmm. Interesting, Zeek. I'd never thought about the implications of those passages in this context.
The precious stones represent the works of God. All the references of casting/ cutting down to the earth refer to the fall from the heavenly realm; of taking on the life of the flesh rather than the life of God. The Adamic nature (flesh) is the antichrist and the adversary!

(Just thinking out loud here.) You really got me thinking now, Z.
God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
"Prayer doesn't change God, it changes me." --C.S. Lewis

God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

Res Veritas Loquitur

Offline Nathan

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #159 on: March 11, 2009, 10:28:04 PM »
Lucifer was Adam for me . . .so yeah, this is all a picture of where man was in the beginning when he was first created . . .and what his bad choices did that brought him to where we are now . . .which is why Christ came, to reverse the curse . .sin is just  a symptom of the misalignment of man.

Noah's ark landed on Mt. Ararat . . . if that isn't a picture of the mission of God!!!

Offline Cardinal

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #160 on: March 11, 2009, 10:30:32 PM »

Yes, I can see what you are saying about Desires....for when I pray to the Lord and ask for His Kingship and Lordship over my heart ....I ask for HIS DESIRES....His motive....of His Heart to be given to me.

 :cloud9: Yep, that's the key. The desire of all nations (individuals) shall come, and IS coming now. When He comes, His reward is with Him. Eve was slain by her desire, which she reasoned was a good thing; Eve DESIRED the PLEASANT fruit as something to make one wise. Contrast this with the righteous actions of Daniel who said he would eat no PLEASANT bread. Blessings...
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Molly

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #161 on: March 11, 2009, 10:33:36 PM »
Lucifer was Adam for me . . .so yeah, this is all a picture of where man was in the beginning when he was first created . . .and what his bad choices did that brought him to where we are now . . .which is why Christ came, to reverse the curse . .sin is just  a symptom of the misalignment of man.

Noah's ark landed on Mt. Ararat . . . if that isn't a picture of the mission of God!!!

So satan did this?


20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope

 21that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.

--Rom 8

trettep

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #162 on: March 11, 2009, 10:36:25 PM »
Yes, that's more or less the way I see it too, Paul.

I knew we would find agreement on something at some point.   :Sparkletooth:

Paul

Offline Cardinal

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #163 on: March 11, 2009, 10:38:16 PM »
 :cloud9: Amen, Zeek, Doc and Nathan. When I first came to the Lord He gave me a dream/vision I was not to understand for years. I had fallen asleep in the Word, and I saw in the Spirit, large jewels in gold fittings in rows within my chest. Just then the Lord spoke to me, "RESTORATION BACK TO THE ANOINTED CHERUB THAT COVERETH."

I think this is totality of restoring fallen man back to being one with THE High Priest, in the garden of God which we are, all in one sentence. Blessings....
« Last Edit: March 11, 2009, 10:40:32 PM by Cardinal »
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Nathan

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #164 on: March 11, 2009, 10:42:15 PM »
Lucifer was Adam for me . . .so yeah, this is all a picture of where man was in the beginning when he was first created . . .and what his bad choices did that brought him to where we are now . . .which is why Christ came, to reverse the curse . .sin is just  a symptom of the misalignment of man.

Noah's ark landed on Mt. Ararat . . . if that isn't a picture of the mission of God!!!

So satan did this?


20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope

 21that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.

--Rom 8


Satan - definition - Adversary
My mind - always at emnity against God - Adversary.

My body is the earth that is bound by my mind's conformity.  I don't drink because it's breaking a law.  I don't swear because it's breaking the law.  My body is bound by the restrictions of my mind.

Now, the argument will be . . .so what is freedom then?  drinking, swearing and killing?  No, freedom is not having to worry about observing the law because being in Christ, means I'm already living within the law tht matters.  Love doesn't destroy me (abusive drinking) love doesn't destroy others emotions (language) love doesn't destroy others bodily (killing).  

Love removes me from my life of conformity, and brings me into his marvelous light . . . my body doesn't decay by it's own choice . . .but death comes by my minds bad choices . . .as well as the first Adam's choice as well.

Satan as an entity, is not the one stirring up the evil in the land . .it's the people who've let their selves be ruler of their minds . . .which will always lead to death and destruction.

Offline Molly

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #165 on: March 11, 2009, 10:42:43 PM »
:cloud9: Amen, Zeek, Doc and Nathan. When I first came to the Lord He gave me a dream/vision I was not to understand for years. I had fallen asleep in the Word, and I saw in the Spirit, large jewels in gold fittings in rows within my chest. Just then the Lord spoke to me, "RESTORATION BACK TO THE ANOINTED CHERUBIM THAT COVERETH."

I think this is totality of restoring fallen man back to being one with THE High Priest, in the garden of God which we are, all in one sentence. Blessings....
If Adam hadn't participated with Eve--and maybe you think that is impossible, but for the sake of argument, let's just say it was possible--would all have died in Adam?  Is dying in Adam a type of covering?

Offline Molly

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #166 on: March 11, 2009, 10:48:53 PM »
Lucifer was Adam for me . . .so yeah, this is all a picture of where man was in the beginning when he was first created . . .and what his bad choices did that brought him to where we are now . . .which is why Christ came, to reverse the curse . .sin is just  a symptom of the misalignment of man.

Noah's ark landed on Mt. Ararat . . . if that isn't a picture of the mission of God!!!

So satan did this?


20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope

 21that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.

--Rom 8


Satan - definition - Adversary
My mind - always at emnity against God - Adversary.

My body is the earth that is bound by my mind's conformity.  I don't drink because it's breaking a law.  I don't swear because it's breaking the law.  My body is bound by the restrictions of my mind.

Now, the argument will be . . .so what is freedom then?  drinking, swearing and killing?  No, freedom is not having to worry about observing the law because being in Christ, means I'm already living within the law tht matters.  Love doesn't destroy me (abusive drinking) love doesn't destroy others emotions (language) love doesn't destroy others bodily (killing).  

Love removes me from my life of conformity, and brings me into his marvelous light . . . my body doesn't decay by it's own choice . . .but death comes by my minds bad choices . . .as well as the first Adam's choice as well.

Satan as an entity, is not the one stirring up the evil in the land . .it's the people who've let their selves be ruler of their minds . . .which will always lead to death and destruction.
Yes, I understand, but you didn't answer my question.

Who is the one whose will subjected the creation [creature] to vanity in hope that the creation itself would be liberated from bondage into the glorious freedom of the children of God?  We know that satan was in the garden, and he wanted Eve dead, and he wanted to get to Adam through Eve, so he wanted Adam dead, too.  But, the final decision was up to Adam--because he was not deceived.

Offline Nathan

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #167 on: March 11, 2009, 10:51:09 PM »
The earth was given to Adam to rule over . .to have dominion over . . as Adam goes, so goes that which was put "under" him.

Offline Molly

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #168 on: March 11, 2009, 10:54:28 PM »
The earth was given to Adam to rule over . .to have dominion over . . as Adam goes, so goes that which was put "under" him.
So are you saying it was Adam's will?

Offline Nathan

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #169 on: March 11, 2009, 10:57:34 PM »
It was Adam's will to submit to Eve . . . I can't say Adam knew of the consquences that would follow, but yeah, he's responsible for it.

Offline Doc

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #170 on: March 11, 2009, 11:03:21 PM »
Well this is interesting. I just looked up serpent in Strong's:

H5172
נחשׁ
n‚chash
naw-khash'
A primitive root; properly to hiss, that is, whisper a (magic) spell; generally to prognosticate: -  X certainly, divine, enchanter, (use) X enchantment, learn by experience, X indeed, diligently observe.

"The serpent was more crafty than "any of the other animals in the garden"". The way we read that, we assume that the serpent was an "animal".

The whisper of the flesh. Learning by experience (the tree of knowledge of good and evil). Hmmm.
God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
"Prayer doesn't change God, it changes me." --C.S. Lewis

God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

Res Veritas Loquitur

Offline Doc

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #171 on: March 11, 2009, 11:05:56 PM »
Lucifer was Adam for me . . .so yeah, this is all a picture of where man was in the beginning when he was first created . . .and what his bad choices did that brought him to where we are now . . .which is why Christ came, to reverse the curse . .sin is just  a symptom of the misalignment of man.

Noah's ark landed on Mt. Ararat . . . if that isn't a picture of the mission of God!!!

So satan did this?


20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope

 21that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.

--Rom 8


No, no Molly. That was God subjecting it in hope, not Adam.
God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
"Prayer doesn't change God, it changes me." --C.S. Lewis

God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

Res Veritas Loquitur

Offline Molly

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #172 on: March 11, 2009, 11:08:18 PM »
Lucifer was Adam for me . . .so yeah, this is all a picture of where man was in the beginning when he was first created . . .and what his bad choices did that brought him to where we are now . . .which is why Christ came, to reverse the curse . .sin is just  a symptom of the misalignment of man.

Noah's ark landed on Mt. Ararat . . . if that isn't a picture of the mission of God!!!

So satan did this?


20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope

 21that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.

--Rom 8


No, no Molly. That was God subjecting it in hope, not Adam.
well, yes, of course it was God.

Then, why would one say it was Lucifer?

Offline Molly

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #173 on: March 11, 2009, 11:23:33 PM »
It was Adam's will to submit to Eve . . . I can't say Adam knew of the consquences that would follow, but yeah, he's responsible for it.
Of course he knew the consequences.

That's what --not deceived--means.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: The LAW!
« Reply #174 on: March 11, 2009, 11:23:56 PM »
:cloud9: Amen, Zeek, Doc and Nathan. When I first came to the Lord He gave me a dream/vision I was not to understand for years. I had fallen asleep in the Word, and I saw in the Spirit, large jewels in gold fittings in rows within my chest. Just then the Lord spoke to me, "RESTORATION BACK TO THE ANOINTED CHERUBIM THAT COVERETH."

I think this is totality of restoring fallen man back to being one with THE High Priest, in the garden of God which we are, all in one sentence. Blessings....
If Adam hadn't participated with Eve--and maybe you think that is impossible, but for the sake of argument, let's just say it was possible--would all have died in Adam?  Is dying in Adam a type of covering?

 :cloud9: Yes, but he's a false covering, though, because our true covering is, of course, Christ Jesus. All of the deliverance we go thru if we are pressing in for sanctification of this temple is removing those things of the false covering produced by the union of the carnal mind (spirit/Adam) and the flesh (Eve). Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor